Treaty Repository...

I find that I am the weakest at writing treaties and would desire to see some sort of repository for treaties here in this group. Of course, the repository would have to be one that has no names or such in the treaties, but at the least the collected information will provide something of a template for some of us to go by. I would be more than happy to collect these into a single file that can be enlarged at any time. I believe this would be a great help to many people involved in the current games. Does anyone else feel this way or have anything to offer on this matter.

As I'm just about to join my first TGOK game I think this is great idea. Perhaps a file library could be set up here on the boards with template documents like treaties, letters and I don't know maybe there are other things in the game that I haven't got a grasp of yet.

I do believe that the treaty portion would be most beneficial. I am in the process of researching a few now. We shall see.

revvaughan wrote:I find that I am the weakest at writing treaties and would desire to see some sort of repository for treaties here in this group. Of course, the repository would have to be one that has no names or such in the treaties, but at the least the collected information will provide something of a template for some of us to go by. I would be more than happy to collect these into a single file that can be enlarged at any time. I believe this would be a great help to many people involved in the current games. Does anyone else feel this way or have anything to offer on this matter.

Greetings All

I like, and totally agree with, your idea, it's a very good one. I have a few treaty (and other document)templates which I could contribute to your repository.....I use them in LGDR frequently! All one must do, is type in the pertinent names (titles) of signatories, places and dates of the signing........And viola, an instant
treaty!! Some of you have seen and/or received copies of my templates (filled out) ingame, and, I believe that I have been pretty much in-period and accurate. Some document templates which I have include.......

Treaty of Peace, Amity & Commerce
Sedition Act
Articles of Capitulation
Declaration of Hostilities
Proclamation of Neutrality

Let me know when the repository is in-place?

I guess this is one of those things that we need to run through Richard and make sure he doesn't have a problem with it as well. Once that has been done we could get with Terry and get it off the ground.

revvaughan wrote:I guess this is one of those things that we need to run through Richard and make sure he doesn't have a problem with it as well. Once that has been done we could get with Terry and get it off the ground.

Shalom

This sounds like a good idea to me, it never hurts to have an idea sanctioned by our higher authority!
I'm also willing to research other types of documents, and to knock them into shape for the game. Once I've finished a draft, I would email the "Keeper of the Vault" a copy, then wait for his/their input. Once input was received, I would touch it up, email it back to them! I would let him/them post it to said repository!!

Brother Richard!!!! What do you think of this idea??

I think this is a great idea and I am fully in favour of it.

My main question would be, what is the real impact nowadays in-game of people breaking treaties ? Years ago, I know Richard ran a kind of "Court of Agema" to arbitrate on treaties, and a Court of Agema ruling was kind of binding and carried clout....mainly because Richard could punish anyone not abiding by a ruling.

I just get the impression that kind of repercussions are no longer available....and I wish they were.

Your honor score would likely plumet and that in and of itself would be a problem. Further, the action of others that seek to defend the nation could cause considerable problem.

count-de-monet wrote:I think this is a great idea and I am fully in favour of it.

My main question would be, what is the real impact nowadays in-game of people breaking treaties ? Years ago, I know Richard ran a kind of "Court of Agema" to arbitrate on treaties, and a Court of Agema ruling was kind of binding and carried clout....mainly because Richard could punish anyone not abiding by a ruling.

I just get the impression that kind of repercussions are no longer available....and I wish they were.

Greetings Count........

I'll bet that Richard would probably run such a "Court", but, first, gamers have to send/receive such documents before there is any kind of adjudication! I have been playing LGDR for years, and always send out treaties to all major countries.......I believe that I have had a grand total of maybe four countries sign and return copies of the treaties. I have never had a single country ever send me a treaty for my signature!!

I believe that this lack of treaties is due to:

a. It doesn't occur to them to do so.
b. It is too much work to research & make such a document.
c. There is no penalty for not doing so!
d. An attitude may exist that is like this: "No one else does it"

People may forget (or not know) that treaties (in writing) are the heart of diplomacy! They exist to help keep countries to a code of common code of behavior! If you behave in a manner that contravenes what you have agreed to (in writing) with a number of other countries, then, you suffer sanctions of various kinds. Letters between two countries is not a treaty......either country can legally break the agreement, with no legal ramifications!! However, when a nation breaks a trreaty that a number of other nations have signed, then the miscreant can be punished, commercially or otherwise!!

To me, you can't realistically re-create the 18th century partially.......you either go "whole hawg", or you don't!!

revvaughan wrote:Your honor score would likely plumet and that in and of itself would be a problem. Further, the action of others that seek to defend the nation could cause considerable problem.

That is the reason that nations sign treaties!

Part of the fun of the game is the rare event when a case is taken to the Court of Agema for a ruling. If everyone starts using refined treaty templates that cover all eventualities unexpected court rulings resulting from a poorly drafted treaty will be eliminated. I'm sure holding templates won't breach the rules, but is it against the spirit of the game?

Richard, if you see this post, could you confirm if the "Court of Agema" does still arbitrate over treaties ? The suggestion in this thread is the Court can still sit in session, but its been so long since I have seen it in a game.

So long in fact, that I must admit I have placed even less emphasis on treaties in my positions.

Got word from Richard this afternoon that the idea of the "repository" is good to go. However, I note there is some opposition to the matter and would rather hear all (including Terry) before this idea is pushed. Any more comments?

This is wierd I replied to this ost last night and it is not here now?

Ah the host has a problem hence my posts are missing!!

I do not object to a repositary, howevre by using some one elses treaty you have no one to blame if another player can spot a weakness and exploit it. I prefer to do my own, but thats my opinion......

read the begininners guide for help on this matter

revvaughan wrote:Got word from Richard this afternoon that the idea of the "repository" is good to go. However, I note there is some opposition to the matter and would rather hear all (including Terry) before this idea is pushed. Any more comments?

Shalom All

I am ready to send my templates to the repository, when you have a location! And, if anybody has any re-quests (document wise), send them to me by PM or to my email address:

moshe.zimri1@verizon.net

Since I am 100% disabled, I'm home 24/7....and check my email several times daily. This means that I'm always seeking projects to work on!!!! Therefore, any request sent to me will instantly jumped upon (so to speak)!!

Hapsburg wrote:Part of the fun of the game is the rare event when a case is taken to the Court of Agema for a ruling. If everyone starts using refined treaty templates that cover all eventualities unexpected court rulings resulting from a poorly drafted treaty will be eliminated. I'm sure holding templates won't breach the rules, but is it against the spirit of the game?

Greetings

I personally do naught feel that using a pre-packaged diplomatic template will violate the "spirit" of the game! Proper diplomacy is the "soul" of any of these Agema games. Look at it this way:

a. This work to be done is done for free.
b. Somebody else is doing the work.
c. It is in keeping with the historical world at that time, so, why not be totally historical?
d. Mayhap your honour points go up a point?
e. Why naught?

If you send me the information ( names of signatories, date of the signing, location etc.,), I'll even be willing to fill it it in for you!! All you'll have to do is to afix your national coat of arms at the top of the document!! What more can I do for a player??

Only 2.5 moves into my first-ever game... so hardly qualified to comment! (Which won't stop me, of course.) The idea of a repository - as some examples of "What works" (especially if there might be some notes as to "Why" various clauses/approaches are wise) - seems great. From my uninformed perspective I would have thought that formal Treaties would only come up in very specific circumstances, where there' something two heads of state need to have nailed-down and "guaranteed" between them. Simple diplo negotiations by letter would surely cover a far larger territory of "agreements" normally? (Which may be why there are not so many of them about?) If a Treaty is made formally - does news of it appear in the gazette? Detailed reporting might encourage more to take the Treaty route (?)

Jim

Treaties are a thing between players, you can have it advertised if you want, it can lead to players A +B signing and player C attacking player B and not knowing player A is his ally and get well and truely stuffed!

Kingmaker wrote:Treaties are a thing between players, you can have it advertised if you want, it can lead to players A +B signing and player C attacking player B and not knowing player A is his ally and get well and truely stuffed!

Greetings

Having it written-up in the newspaper also is a good way to ward-off unwanted conflict, and is also good reading! Richard has a great knack for writing very interesting personal or national items to print in the newspaper....Especially if you request it!!

I believe that the idea of sound and could only assist players in getting things done properly. While I can appreciate the arguments to the contrary, I simply believe that it will serve as nothing more than an aid to the players involved.

Kingmaker... How are you planning to host this? Will it be a heading in the forum or will something more complex be required?

revvaughan wrote:I believe that the idea of sound and could only assist players in getting things done properly. While I can appreciate the arguments to the contrary, I simply believe that it will serve as nothing more than an aid to the players involved.

Kingmaker... How are you planning to host this? Will it be a heading in the forum or will something more complex be required?

And, mayhap a folder for fonts for LGDR and WOTR??

Moshe

will sort it shortly guys....

Things sure have gotten quiet here????

Right I have the webspace just need the files.

I have been busy sorting another website that I was building