Game 3 - Austrian Succession

The death of the Holy Roman Emperor Karl without a direct male Hapsburg successor except for his older brother the King of Spain may make this game very interesting.

The Hanoverian player thinks the Archduchess Maria Theresa, the historical ruler is in place, but never born in the game.

As she is my niece through marriage I would take a very dim view of any one trying any thing on with said country

so speaks The Tsar!!

Footnote :
she is born along with a sister who not many know about. The late Wife of the HRE was my wifes sister ....

My late brother's Ministers must honour his promise to me when I granted him my titles of Archduke and King of Hungary, mongst others over 20 years ago - handy playing for so long!

If he hasn't a male heir King Joseph reclaims his titles!

I am not in Game 3 but this sounds like it could get interesting.

I think potentially you will see develop one of the very few downsides to the game. For every long standing player in any version there are probably five with limited playing time. From my experience positions can generate a great deal of turnaround in players.

In some areas this leads to an unfair impact on the longstanding players because deals, alliances, treaties signed many game years ago, or by departed players become almost worthless. The number of times deals are simply allowed to be ignored ! Arguing against myself, I do agree that sometimes it is unfair to "punish" a new player for the actions of his predecessor, or for newer players to understand the political scene when the original deal was agreed and they werent in the game. It keeps some balance in the game and certainly keeps it interesting. All feels a little too tough on the long standing player though to me.

Oh well, I guess this dispute is likely to go one way......I hope the King of Spain is strong enough to exert his claim militarily. I look forward to updates

speaking as a player I bet Richard would like to see a written version of said promise...

Also I cannot see ther GM allowing 2 large states/positions like this join togther, he may have you give Spain or some thing similar.

Either way it will be interesting There will be a lot of support for Austria, Poland , Russia, Saxony-Wuutermburg, England and possibly Sweden may back the daughter as THE heir. There again some compromise of a proposed marriage between the King of Spain son and the daugther of the HRE may settle this?

I know where Russia stands in all this BTW

Kingmaker does make a very good point about two large states joining together. No matter what the supporting documentation this potentially really upsets the balance of power.

What year is game 3 in, maybe the traditional powers of early 18th centruy (historically) have ebbed and flowed.

Personally I wouldnt trust Russia - call his bluff....FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

it is currently July 1734

The Tsar is a very honourable man, if you disagree get your sword out he will obligue you...

Plus Spain and Austria have been very good friends of Imperial Russia

The Germanic/Austrian Hapsburg hereditary titles and lands are passed through the Hapsburg male line of succession (Salic law), as reafirmed with my brother when, over two decades ago, I nominated Karl as my successor to my numerous titles, which included Archduke of Austria and King of Hungary. This was a proviso to my acceptance of the Kingdoms of Castille and Aragon.

Hungary, which has an elective kingship, accepted the house of Hapsburg as hereditary kings in the male line, without election in 1687, but has not renounced Salic inheritance. The Emperor-King agreed that if the Hapsburg male line became extinct, Hungary would once again have an elective monarchy. This is the rule in the Kingdom of Bohemia too.

My father, Leopold I and brother Karl and I did not sign a succession pact (Pactum mutuae successionis) to specify that females could succeed, in order to attempt to circumvent Salic law.

Failing to follow Salic law, as is required with the Germanic states, will therefore lead to the disintegration of the Austrian Hapsburg Empire, a prospect the Austrian diet and nobility will avoid by blocking any female succession! That's my plan anyway!

We Dutch just want to sell something to someone... You know we are just looking to make some coin in Game III.

I foresee an interesting game ahead.....Russia may just wait on the side lines for the left overs....

The situation does seem to be getting interesting. I have to say I am confused by Hanover's decision to go for the Emperorship as I thought you had to be a Catholic to stand for election.

Well, I'm not an elector so for now I'll wait and watch. I do have sympathies in one camp but not so much that I'm yet ready to rsk entering a war over the dispute.

I bekieve Hanocer to be the ex Shah from game 3 as he appeared about the same time he disappeared. The shah was suffering from a lack of funds, hence the new players decision to allow Russian and Spainin traders back in and allow trading again.

As to who is doing what Imperial Russia is always ready for war, just need to find out wants to try it on next

RULING BY THE REICHSKAMMERGERICHT – IMPERIAL LEGAL COURT OF THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE. KING JOSEPH CONFIRMED AS THE HEIR TO THE KINGDOMS OF BOHEMIA AND HUNGARY!!.

“Under well established and ancient law the male line is not extinct but is continued in the person of King Joseph of Spain. This means that under Imperial law King Joseph does hold the legal claim to the titles of King of Bohemia (and King of Hungary), and this is the judgement of this court”.

Bohemia and Hungary will be separated from the Hapsburg Empire (Archduchy of Austria) if the proposed female accession is confirmed. All gone too smoothly for my liking! I expect trouble from certain nations but won't name names as yet!

Turn sent back today, too long to wait.

Cheers

King Joseph of Spain confirmed as King-elect by the Hungarian Diet. Austrian officials still have administrative control over Hungary, but this will be dismantled over the next few turns!

yes its all going on wondre what Hanover will do, renouce his faith or not?

Kingmaker wrote:yes its all going on wondre what Hanover will do, renouce his faith or not?

I suppose he has to but I doubt his subjects will take kindly to that and even if the royal birth didn't kill off his succession deal with Prussia, that would. Indeed, I wonder how the Dutch and Swedes will take to a Catholic in Northern Germany?

I wonder if the good protestants of Hanover might rise up against their new possibly Catholic monarch?

hmmm I wonder indeed.....

well its getting interesting The Royal Steward of Prussia has arrested his own King (of Prussia) saying he is insane and the "Sacred" Emperor (as he ahs not been crowned by a Catholic ArchBishop) was there and did nothing.....

I foreesee a right royal rumpaus for a certain eatern ruler and a local Danish one perhaps at this traitorus act by the Stewrd, who knows civil war or invasion to reassert the Crown again?

Well, much as I hate to throw a spanner in the works, I have just taken on the Austrian position. Be not fooled, however, for I have a long history in LGDR 3... Indeed King Joseph knows me well, as we didn't exactly get on like a house on fire.

To be candid, I used to play King Louis XV of France many many years ago in LGDR 3, so I was also around with Joseph swapped Vienna for Madrid. I therefore know what happened, and in substance Joseph relinquished his claims to the Austro-Hungarian crowns, so actually there is presently no male heir to the thrones... Long Live Queen Maria Theresa!

Ahhh interesting.....

I fondly remember my early negotiations with King Louis! I still have the copy treaty that ended our war.

King Joseph never relinquished his legal claims as the Imperial Court has already ruled in respect of Bohemia and Hungary, and Salic law is applicable to the Archduchy given that in its entire history (as a Duchy since 1156), female succession has never been sanctioned and is at odds will historic precedent. Although I'm sure negotiations will prevail!

An interesting recollection of past events, but biased? The Tsar, I'm sure, will agree!

Good luck and welcome back!

Well, we shall each have our own version of events, I am sure. Nevertheless, renunciation effectively took place, which leaves us where we are... ;-)

Looking forward to the challenge! And if you could send me a copy of that peace treaty for old times sake - I'm curious!

I'll never get the decorating finished if I keep viewing the forum! A diagreement from the off, interesting but fun turns ahead.......

No problem, copy of the treaty and covering letter in with my next turn.

game 3 has arrived and things are hotting up in the Spain v Austria set. Meanwhile some Prussian person (I blieve it is prussian as he did not add his name to the statement) has just launched an attack on The Tsar in the Press. The Tsar is most amused as it must have been written by a child of 12 who has been told off, not what I expect from a state leader....

Next months paper will be interesting I guarrentee....

Things are indeed hotting up, and it was confirmed on my turn sheet that despite a little confusion in the press, Maria Theresa truly is now the Queen-elect of Bohemia...