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NEW RULES

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count-de-monet
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NEW RULES

Post by count-de-monet on Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:18 pm

I have just received these via email so will need some time to digest, but thought a topic discussion being started could be helpful for clarifications and interpretations etc....

NO MORE MILITARY CHANGE ORDER LIMITS Very Happy

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by count-de-monet on Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:20 pm

The new rules cover supplying an army by providing grain from grain supplies held, or living off the land....

what happens if you start with no grain supplies ?

I get the impression that "stores" can not be purchased.
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Re: NEW RULES

Post by revvaughan on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:34 am

Does this only apply to Game VII?

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by count-de-monet on Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:29 am

nope its across all games. It has been released first with the Game 7 turns but is clearly going to go out with all games.

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by jamesbond007 on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:10 pm

No more military change orders then? This is the only new change that i have heard about. Thanks to this forum. Any more changes? No doubt all will be revealed in my next turn. However this has got to be a good thing. It is crazy that a nation the size of France, can do little more than a nation the size of Prussia. Or a Switzerland. Re equiping the French army, took years. Simply activating all fortress cannons took over a year. More realistic i think.

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by count-de-monet on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:11 pm

Richard has produced an excellent four or five page summary of the changes, but to give a taster....

no more military change orders
changes to SL ratings (can now be between 1 and 9+)
new rules on impact of SL rating and how to recover it
changes to supply and stores for campaigning/moving armies
changes to giving orders to military units both inside and outside your territories
In game 7 you no longer lose men/racruits to attrition, it becomes a SL rating
No more "stores" in game
Magazines do not provide supplies, only gunpowder. Ideally (but not essential) grain supplies are needed to move military units

All in all I think its another positive move forward. Those used to the old rules and who have taken time and effort to work to these might seem some of their actions redundant and may have to "start from the beginning" again to make campaigning easier but I can see the amendments making things better.

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by jamesbond007 on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:55 pm

Cannot wait to see the new rules. At a quick glance at the above, there is alot of good about. The only downside, may be the issue of Magazines only supplying gunpowder. Surely not worth the expense anymore. The grain supplies could be interesting. Could these last two changes slow campaigning down, too much? How can you campaign, with no stores around?

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by count-de-monet on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:03 pm

I think the change for magazines is quite clever and maybe now more of an importance. Your armies need gunpowder to fight, after a battle a unit can be labelled as "low on gunpowder", and so unable to fire. Makes them pretty worthless if you dont have magazines to re-supply them.

Magazines now take six months to create !

You can move armies and navies without grain but they will almost certainly get a SL rarting which could jump up a couple of points. There are various ways of recovering this SL rating, but one of the simplest, and cheapest ways is to simply order the army/navy to rest. It makes them completely vulnerable, so some planning is required, but a complete month of rest can recover a SL point.

Will it slow down campaigning ? Yes, perhaps it will, but what it will definitely do is 1) make it more historically correct 2) make supply and logistics more important and 3) reward those nations that plan and prepare.

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by jamesbond007 on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:32 pm

So am i right in saying, that unless you have a magazine nearby, you will not have spare gunpowder? It certainly looks interesting. Will be very hard to campaign on faraway shores. I agree, looks a big step forward.
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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Regor on Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:02 pm

I am also concerned about the time it may take to get orders acted upon. I shall now have to have a patrol set up in two oceans in order to fix this! Will patrols now get sick lists and have to be taken out of action to recover? Would that look like the ships getting 'worm' or just wearing out and having to get a re-fit?

And if so is coppering the ships bottoms now a real and indeed important task to keep them active longer???

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new rules

Post by RAGGY on Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:36 pm

I spent years building up my government running costs so that I could have 3 change orders per turn! Under the new rules I can now slash Government spending!

The new rules appear to be more realistic and less complicated at first glance. Of course it will take a few turns before we can judge thier impact on the game.

Long live the UDP!
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Re: NEW RULES

Post by revvaughan on Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:11 am

The new rules take away my advantage of having five change orders. However, I will work with what Richard gives me and make the best of it.

God Save the King!

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by jamesbond007 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:05 am

One big problem with the new rules is. How do you go about attacking a town or an opposition army, in a continent or country where you have no magazine. You will soon run out of gunpowder. How do you replace it? You cannot build a magazine in a country, where you have no towns. Apart from this, the rule changes look good. affraid
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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Regor on Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:55 am

Five change orders, I mean FIVE!? Anyhow having thought about the changes the question above can be expanded - How are you goingto attack a town or opposition army on the other side of the world?

Won't the new rules make for more cooperation between players? Perhaps we will see a rise of confederated "teams". (Or if there are already maybe I'm just Billy-no-mates?)

There could be a real need for alliances internal or external now. For Example England might need a real alliance with Scotland and also need other players run English colonies in say the Americas and India rather than rely on the patrols to carry orders. This in turn may allow currently 'smaller' or less powerful nation such as the Ottomans, Moguls or even nations such as the Zulu able to have a greater opportunity in the same games as the big players such as France.

Can anyone explain central European politics in the 18 Century? LoL Laughing
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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Kingmaker on Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:58 pm

Smaller lest powerful nations such as the Ottomans?

Come on your havin a laff .

Played right they are huge and can kick ass!!!1[b]


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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Regor on Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:36 pm

Well, OK the Ottoman empire was a great big pervasive and somewhat long lasting empire (isn't that the definition) BUT what about my musings about teams forming to play a 'singe' nation such as France or - go on then - the Ottomans?

I'm not sure which is why I'm asking - has it happened already in games other then 7? Question

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by jamesbond007 on Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:45 am

I believe that game seven is different to the other lgdr games. Game seven, is the only game where nations are, or were split between differing factions within each country. In a nutshell, every country had two leaders to start off with. In all the other games, one leader for each nation. I cannot see any reason why players would want to unite behind one nation. Each player will continue to run his country for his own aims. I cannot see where the new rules will change anything.
I started off, playing in game seven. But i soon dropped out. How can you plan anything, if you only control a faction within a country, rather than a country itself? I suppose the aim in game seven, is to control a country itself, rather than look to control other countrys by conquest. I did not like this idea. Too limiting for me. Too much reliance on other players, not enough control individually. I was making mc orders that did not happen, as the other faction ruler in Spain made his own, different mc orders. Why share a nation, with a stranger, when you can control one by yourself? you can keep game seven i am afraid. I would never want to join it.

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Frank on Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:55 am

I have a question regarding the new rules.

If i have a fleet at City A with no grain and i want to move the fleet can i use the grain who is stored in a granary at the capital? Or must i first move the grain there manually?

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Kingmaker on Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:19 pm

you should be able to move the fleet as long as it is withing the territory where the grain is stored



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Re: NEW RULES

Post by the great unwashed on Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:35 pm

'smaller' or less powerful nation such as the ... Moguls '
Someone please hold me back. I didn't realize this was going to get personal!
On a more serious note, with the rule changes a dilemma has arrisen and I cannot get my head around it. If anyone can help it would be appreciated.
Yor army is marching to a destination and this will take 5 months. Even with a general staff an army can now only take supplies sufficient for four months so you will have run out of supplies by the time you reach your destination.
There is no access to the sea so supplies canot be shipped in and neither do you wish to live off the locals, for political reasons.
Being in enemy territory any supply column will need to be escorted, requiring the formation of a new army and then the sames restrictions come into play. How can fresh supplies of grain be brought to the army?
In anticipation, many thanks
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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Kingmaker on Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:17 pm

Baggage tryane maybe or even have carts carry it.


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Re: NEW RULES

Post by Kingmaker on Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:24 pm

yuo cn take upto 4 months supply if you use a baggage tyrane, but move slower. I wonder iy you can take another baggage tyrane as a seperate thing with more grain?
Unless you state that you live off the land as you leave yuor territory then you wont use the supply with you.


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Re: NEW RULES

Post by jamesbond007 on Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:20 pm

It is ok living off the land. But unfortunatly the amount of areas where you can use this order, is very, very few.Whichever way you look at it, unless you have a magazine near by, you are living on borrowed time.Unless you have a port nearby,you cannot replenish easily also.Ports are more important now.These rules are far more realistic.It stops armies carrying 100,000 tonnes of grain and lasting forever, rampaging anywhere and everywhere.You need to fight more historically now.
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Re: NEW RULES

Post by the great unwashed on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:23 am

Oops. Where I stated general staff, it should have read Logistics corps, under which rule it states, 'the amount of grain an army can have with it increases to ... 20,000 tons.'
Under carts/ pack animals, all it says it that it enables and army to move at cavalry rates. nothing about extra carrying capacity.
I really am stumped on this one. I think the days of deep cavalry strikes are over. Damn.
Thanks for the imput.

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Re: NEW RULES

Post by jamesbond007 on Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:12 pm

Yes. For every one logistic Choir you create. You can carry an extra 5,000 tons. So in reality, you only get one more order for creating a useless fighting unit. Does not seem worth the expense or the headache of what to do with, and where to put useless Logistics in the field of battle. So again we get back to the fact. That you cannot campaign for too long away from your own territory.

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