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Game 8

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Jason
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:21 am

We could invade Europe Deacon... Wink
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MarkTurner26
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Re: Game 8

Post by MarkTurner26 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:13 am

Not to risk getting chastised by the oncoming message warning of rule breaking, but there are some nice juicy colonies, nom nom nom.
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Deacon
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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:18 pm

It's a long march to Europe, but you're welcome to try. Very Happy

Invading Japan again might be fun...
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Jason
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:24 pm

Oh..not so far to march...or sail... Wink
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Re: Game 8

Post by MarkTurner26 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:32 pm

Well it's a thought
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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:19 am


Frankly, my view of history is that the only reason the previous invasions failed is that they were done in the wrong season and got hooked up on the monsoons. Gave the Japanese a real complex about how the gods protected them...

And given the history between Korea and Japan it would be interesting to turn that around!

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Re: Game 8

Post by Bearlord on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:32 pm

Stuart Bailey wrote:
c) A Ottoman invasion of Russia in Alliance with the Swedes........never happened but could happened around 1711 when King Charles of Sweden was in the Ottoman Empire after Poltava and trying to convince the GV to be more aggressive against the Czar.
I tried to talk the Ottomans into this as Sweden in game 6 a couple of years ago but I never got any reply. Propbably due to inactive Ottoman positions. But it certainly would be interesting to see the outcome of this.

In history Charles XII's visit at the Ottomans didn't end very friendly though as he was chased away after some skirmish. An interesting sidenote to this episode is that the Turkish word for crowd or congestion caused by lots of people, kalabalik, is used in Swedish after this and here means uproar and disorder.
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Jason
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:24 pm

On a Chinese invasion...there are a few in-game factors that also tell against it.

1) The total absence of a Chinese Navy at start-up. I've played Chinese positions in 4 games now and only in one did I have any naval forces when I took on the position-and that was 30 sloops (no transports). Now maybe I'm a bit old fashioned but I feel some ships are essential for a sea borne attack Wink (as an aside, my first task as a Chinese player is to build up some sort of navy, if only for coastal defence and trade support).

2) The instant way news is transmitted. There is no delay in news of actions taking place, in London you learn what happens in the Far East in the next turns newspaper; not 6 months later. So the news of a Chinese invasion of Japan would be known in Europe in a month. This does mean that if a barbarian European player had forces in the Far East at the right time, they might decide to try and seize some imperial land quite quickly if China threw the bulk of its military against Japan...rather than the news reaching the great and good after 6 months, by which time the war could be over...

3) Perhaps a better plan is to leave Japan alone, keep and eye on it but not attack...build up the military, convince nearby nations the Empire is their friend and isn't after their land (unlike certain others), establish a series of forward bases,wait for the barbarians Europeans to start fighting among themselves...and liberate a few colonies...

...not that I would ever do that...of course... Wink

On the little/never seen conflicts, I suspect there are a few in the Far East that we don't ever see (Burma-Siam 1700/1 for example). I wonder if we don't see the Ottoman invasions cause every Ottoman player is in awe of what Stuart did in G2...and just feels any invasion they mount will be raiding parties by comparison Wink
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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:45 pm


I guess it depends upon your views of trade versus conquest.

I think most european powers aren't going to be that interested in trying territorial expansion in the far east given the ridiculously challenging logistics.

I saw it in game 3 from the spanish, but that was 1737 and they still were having a hell of a time trying to take one small corner of formosa.

I think territory closer to home makes a ton more sense for most.

I do agree, however, that the European navies in the Far East could cause a lot of problems if they wanted to, and the lack of lag time in the news passing back and orders coming back would change the dynamics.
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one grain of grain
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Re: Game 8

Post by one grain of grain on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:15 pm


2) The instant way news is transmitted. There is no delay in news of actions taking place, in London you learn what happens in the Far East in the next turns newspaper; not 6 months later. So the news of a Chinese invasion of Japan would be known in Europe in a month. This does mean that if a barbarian European player had forces in the Far East at the right time, they might decide to try and seize some imperial land quite quickly if China threw the bulk of its military against Japan...rather than the news reaching the great and good after 6 months, by which time the war could be over... wrote:
This is one of the issues with the game, however because of the delay most Government representatives had a fare amount of leeway as far as independent action goes and even if a certain course of action was indicated by a government this did not always mean this happened as the personal interests of the representative may be at odds with his government. As happened in the Zulu War. And as such was the risk of allowing a foreign enclave for trading.

However this risk can be mitigated if the oriental nations restrict their actions to the annual Wood Whittling extravaganza for the emperor. After all if the resent results of trying to contain one bespectacled Frenchman who in name and look is akin to a Paperclip. really the 1700's Bill Gates. Then the talk of invasions is very premature.

One Grain.
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Jason
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:05 am

You say that now One Grain...just wait til my mighty fleet pays you a visit Wink

Deacon-oh you're right on the territorial expansion (I would rather be prepared, just in case) but yes western fleets could cause a lot of damage. I do remember the Spanish attack on Formosa, started about the time I joined Game 3...a long time going nowhere...

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Re: Game 8

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:19 am

Jason wrote:You say that now One Grain...just wait til my mighty fleet pays you a visit Wink

Deacon-oh you're right on the territorial expansion (I would rather be prepared, just in case) but yes western fleets could cause a lot of damage. I do remember the Spanish attack on Formosa, started about the time I joined Game 3...a long time going nowhere...

I think a lot of the European colonial campaigns in the far east and elsewhere such the Dutch & English attacks on Manila or even the Ottomans in the Indian Ocean are very interesting and I would like to see them refought in game.

But most powers do not have active colonial positions so orders for such a campaign will probably have to be issued from London, Paris, The Hague etc and would be subject to the time lapse rule. Most players who like to micro manage their campaigns are not comfortable sending campaign orders which will not get actioned for three turns so these campaigns do not get fought.

My theory is that if a Dutch Player for example wishes to attack Formosa or Manila for instance he will need to issue detailed "campaign" orders but also give permission to the field commander to react to events and you probably also need to include a "bug out" order saying at what sickness level a siege is abandoned.

However if you are planning long distance campaigns you would still seem to have a big in game disadvantage against the quicker reacting locals.........so if you want to sort out some dodgy Far Eastern types in game I suggest you play scabble instead of Glori du Roi. I still can not believe the King of Siam is more popular than the spiffing chaps of Britannia! I blame the Opium Cartel owning the Times!! since when can a mix of Triads, Scots Drug Runners and very unspiffing types be fit and proper owners?



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Jason
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:31 pm

Surely Stuart it shows all is right in the Mandate of Heaven if an honourable gentleman such as the noble King of Siam is seen to be superior to barbarians from a distant, rain-swept fog-covered isle? Wink

I guess you're right about long distance campaigns waged by the Europeans...now I must go and have a chat with my mate Fu Manchu...

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Re: Game 8

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:57 pm

Jason wrote:Surely Stuart it shows all is right in the Mandate of Heaven if an honourable gentleman such as the noble King of Siam is seen to be superior to barbarians from a distant, rain-swept fog-covered isle? Wink

I guess you're right about long distance campaigns waged by the Europeans...now I must go and have a chat with my mate Fu Manchu...

I really think Jason needs to join scrabble for a time but I fear the shock to his sino sensibilities may be too much:shock:

The so honourable King of Siam has just finished fighting a war against the Manchu Emperor, which he fought in alliance with the Italians after the Emperor of China beheaded this envoy. Not sure why the envoy was beheaded but it was probably for good reason since as well as being allied to Italy the lads from Siam include a major Triad and are bitter rivals of the Opium Cartel.

To go with foriegn Invasions by Siam, Italy and Japan the Manchu Empire seems to have his Army infiltrated by Boxers and followers of the Heavenly Way while its local administration in places like Canton & Shanghai is controlled by Triads and the Opium Barons.

All is clearly not well with the Mandate of Heaven in Scrabble:giveup:

Meanwhile to the North the Russians grow ever stronger..........now some people think that when the Czar and his merry men make their next move it will be towards Indea......but Indea is guarded by Flashman and the spiffing chaps of the HEIC.

Going back to long distance campaigns by the Manchu in 1700 not only have they got the the same problems as everyone else with orders and time lapse. But as Steppe Nomads from Manchuria they have a sea faring tradition which makes the Prussians look like Salty old Seadogs and any Naval forces would have to be raised from recently captured area's and ex-Ming loyalists.

Hit sickness level ? and in a blink of an eye you have converted the Emperor's silver into the great south china sea pirate problem.

To give all these Manchu types a break from wondering what they should give the Emperor on his next birthday I think what games need are PC Ming Rebels and Mongols.

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Jason
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:28 pm

Oh Tsk Tsk Stuart...prepare to witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Qing battle fleet... Wink wait til it steams up the Tiber, Rhine and Thames:drunken:

On Scramble...it is definitely a...different...game...steam punk combined with Monty Python, Carry On...and an edge of darkness...just to confuse things in Scramble world I'd want to be something odd (no comments!) and be governor-general of Australia or something...
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one grain of grain
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Re: Game 8

Post by one grain of grain on Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:28 am

You say that now One Grain...just wait til my mighty fleet pays you a visit Wink wrote:
My word Jason I do look forward to your diplomatic dispatch to me!. Your expertise in Origami must be unsurpassed to include an entire fleet of small paper boats in one diplomatic message.

One Grain.
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MarkTurner26
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Re: Game 8

Post by MarkTurner26 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:56 am

Jason, did he just insult all of the Chinese!

The emperor will not be pleased!Twisted Evil

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Jason
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:07 am

He did Mark...he will suffer...

...and people thought the Ottomans in G2 were a bit OTT...Twisted Evil
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MarkTurner26
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Re: Game 8

Post by MarkTurner26 on Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:20 pm

I will get my fire crackers!Very Happy
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Deacon
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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:14 pm


And, of course, Origami is Japanese, not Chinese....


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Re: Game 8

Post by HaroldB on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:26 pm

Hi everyone

New to game 8. Wish me luck?


Last edited by HaroldB on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typing)
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Deacon
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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:45 pm


Welcome! Care to say who you've picked up?

I'm the apparently flea bitten dog of the twin kingdoms (spain/portugal).
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Deacon
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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:47 pm


Thought it was odd that the chinese emperor decided to order Korea to stop taxing temples.

If Korea's income is anything like the rest of ours, I imagine that's got to sting. Maybe somebody needs to bribe the eunuchs more to ensure that the emperor is seen, but not heard Very Happy
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MarkTurner26
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Re: Game 8

Post by MarkTurner26 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:16 pm

Deacon, all he needs to do now is say don't tax the commoners and that will be it... After that nice present and lovely display of loyalty I get told stop making money.
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Ardagor
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Re: Game 8

Post by Ardagor on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:23 pm

Welcome HaroldB, and good luck. Is this Your first attempt at GOK? All I can say is that it never gets any easier, it`s just so many ways to make tiny mistakes that have shattering consequences.

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