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Game 8

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The Real Louis
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Re: Game 8

Post by The Real Louis on Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:30 pm

May your distractions swiftly pass (at least in the "real" world).
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The Real Louis
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Re: Game 8

Post by The Real Louis on Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Is 8 a really dull game? (compared with 9 & 10) Or are we just more "serious" (or guarded) players, less inclined to frivolous jokes about haggis and the Russian navy, lest they be misinterpreted? Answers on a postcard, please...
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Re: Game 8

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:44 pm

I can't offer much in this thread since I'm only Swashbuckling in #8, so most of my updates go in the Swashbuckler section of the forum.

Not much has happened to me in the game. Upset Denmark over a planned jaunt to Greenland. Upset the uptight people at Hull with my Ball, the Guy Fawkes effigy and insult to Denmark didn't go down too well with the older guests. Upset my innkeeper when I pushed his wife into a snowdrift (it was an accident though!) Yet to upset anyone else, though my newfound servant 'Patchy Harry' sounds like a right Mughal-loving fanatic...Heaven help Bartholomew if he ever reaches India and Patchy goes berserk in the areas not within the Empire! Still, could be worse...At least Patchy Harry is a Moslem, so no chance of him being a secret Thuggee strangler Suspect

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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:05 pm


Well, early game 8 was very high drama for me. It led to the unification of Portugal and Spain under my rulership.

I admit I'm more of a nation-builder than a conquerer/wargamer by inclination. The combined position is large and unweildy, and I struggle just to manage getting it running sort of smoothly even with fairly high turn fees. Just a lot to do managing a position that large and trying to make sure that your army and navy are up to snuff so you can just protect what you have. Having vast colonial holdings may be cool on paper, but it does mean that setting up and staging fleet and troops around the world to ensure you can respond to threats takes a lot of time and energy.

So far, my experience in game 8 seems to tell me that you get a lot more problems thrown your way as a big position than a small one, so I honestly am less inclined to grow the position because it seems to me that it would just be asking for more problems I'd have to work to sort out. Having a veyr high honour hasn't seemed to impact this at all, or if it does, I really pity the big positions with low honour!

I think the lack of an active France for the first 5 years of the game also had a pretty big impact on the current relatively peaceful nature of the european game. Arriving late to the game, the French player has, wisely I think, worked to fit themselves into the existing power dynamics of Europe. Still, I'm surprised that more of the smaller states don't seem to be either in play, or interested in a more 'muscular' foreign pollicy. In European sphere anyway, The Moghuls are doing their conquering thing quite well.

To be fair, it seems like some of the more mid-range positions that really could do more expansion have run into some challenges. I don't have any real interaction with Sweden, but the paper has certainly made it clear the position has been in a difficult spot which the player has worked to reverse. Russia also ran into problems with its first attempt at expansion.

The ottomans so far haven't expressed a desire to revisit the battle of Vienna, and none of the powers seem interested in re-igniting that conflict.

Also, the economy of game 8 has been insanely good for most everybody. I've got enough spare money that I think I'm going to go for universal education in my large realm in 1708! Probably not worth the cost for the in-game benefits, but fits with my enlightenment ruler, so why not?

Research in game 8 also seems to be a ton easier. I have a ton of advances, and I think lots of other people do too. I think these factors have naturally made more people lean towards nation-building to advance their positions rather than conquest.

Probably a more serious answer than you wanted.
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Re: Game 8

Post by Jason on Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:25 pm

I don't think G8 is a dull game. It might be more serious in that it hasn't got its own injoke like the other games but then so far the Russian Navy hasn't managed to sink itself, Lord Fong isn't insulting everyone and there haven't been any French pirates wanting to risk war with haggi....


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Re: Game 8

Post by jamesbond007 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:50 am

The Moghul is doing his part in game 8 to make it exciting.

He has attacked and taken the Jat, Gujerat and Rajput regions of India. He is now attacking the Multan region.

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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:25 pm

The United Kingdom has been established in Game VIII and British Colonial position is quite strong this early in the game. There has been a rather quiet spell that has allowed everyone to focus on the economic side of the coin so to speak and I agree with the good Emperor that the economic in Game VIII is rather robust. Scientific expansion and research has appeared to be somewhat faster in this game as well, but perhaps that is just the position I play.

Things are getting interesting in the Baltic with the Ingrian issue boiling over. It appears that the matter should be resolved within the next two months and the Russians should have their revenge as it were. It is also becoming clear that British Intelligence has been working overtime in tracking down spies and it will be interesting to see how a certain power reacts to its ambassador being shown the door for his public lies and propaganda. All in good fun I assure you. We might not hang the fellow for his tone this time!

The world of Game VIII is certainly getting more interesting.
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Re: Game 8

Post by The Real Louis on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:24 pm

Deacon wrote: Probably a more serious answer than you wanted.

No, indeed - well thought and convincing.
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Re: Game 8

Post by The Real Louis on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:28 pm

revvaughan wrote:It is also becoming clear that British Intelligence has been working overtime in tracking down spies and it will be interesting to see how a certain power reacts to its ambassador being shown the door for his public lies and propaganda. All in good fun I assure you. We might not hang the fellow for his tone this time!

The world of Game VIII is certainly getting more interesting.

We do our best to please... But you Brits do seem fond of hanging innocents. Pity poor Francois, guilty of propaganda, yes; but lies? Mais non! sword
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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:54 pm

Making money is what we like the most I dare say... However, a good hanging is a close second. At least we hung one French Subject and one British Subject for spying. Must endeavour to keep it all even Steven!
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Re: Game 8

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:58 pm

"Here, boss. If you want, I can set Ern and his mates onto this Francois geezer. Give him a right good going over...Teach him a lesson in respect and how to properly behave whilst on your manor." pirat

"That's the trouble with the likes of those, 'south of the river' types."

"You give the word, governor. Me and boys, we'll sort this one out. Maybe turn it into a nice little earner, if you know what I mean?" Twisted Evil

"We won't touch his boat race. Just take him down the frog and toad, to lie low for a bit."

"Just you say the word in my shell-like, governor. Let me take care of the rest."
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revvaughan
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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:10 pm

That certainly might be required soon enough... Yes the old world will be getting more interesting.

Got some weddings to attend before funerals though.
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Re: Game 8

Post by The Real Louis on Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:22 am

Going back to Deacon's analysis of this game... Do we think that Agema is a front for some sort of social experiment, where Richard sets up different economic etc. conditions for each game and then sits back and watches what we lab-rats make of it? Looking for what kind of conditions produce collaboration, and what conflict? Smile
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Re: Game 8

Post by The Real Louis on Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:24 am

revvaughan wrote: Got some weddings to attend before funerals though.

Annie's not off on her travels yet again??! Shocked

(Anyone'd think I'd just discovered smileys....)
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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:27 pm

I like the lab rats idea... You should have seen the visual in my mind!

I think that he has certain formulas and the global economy in our little worlds is driven by how much is invested and where. I believe the model is likely static, but our individual choices in respective positions drives the flow if you will.
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Re: Game 8

Post by The Real Louis on Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:00 pm

Interesting...so you think Game 8's booming economy is due (in part at least) to the particular combination of our various investments,rather than a tendency pre-set by Richard? (One of the "interesting" things about GoK is the opacity of the mechanisms. So Deacon's theories about the economy and the invention-regime seem just as plausible.) Who knows what we're doing!! (And do we let it stop us doing..? Non!)
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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:46 pm

I wouldn't think he would have a seperate set of formulas for each "world" but a standard one that Game 8 might have found the combination for. I know that in Scramble for Empire the investment in trade has been very large for all the major powers and companies. The British Empire has 1.5 Billion Pounds in reserve and is making about 50 million pounds per turn after the massive trade investments. In other games the economic power of a similar large position was no where as robust.

I concur... I must have TGOK and Scramble or I start to detox.
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Re: Game 8

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:24 am

revvaughan, have you always played either Great Britain or England in the various games? I just wondered, out of interest, really.

Makes it easier, I suppose, if a player concentrated on one nation with it's own specific information and issues. And each game is different, so it would be quite interesting to know of your thoughts regarding the different incarnations of GB/England you've experienced.

I had a go with the Commonwealth of Great Britain, once. The game folded soon after I took it on, but to be honest the position was too large a World power for me to handle so I'd have probably have had to admit defeat in my playing the position.

Possibly this is a topic best discussed in it's own thread. And could even be opened up to other players who've played multiple incarnations of the same country in the games.

Off-topic. I'd even be interested to see a separate topic thread discussing the pros and cons of splitting a large, World power position between a number of players. I know of a few instance where this has been done, or is being played as such. I've just started playing a position where the country is split between several player positions, under the direct command of Ruler Agema, and myself and the others in the nation are in agreement to work as a co-operative.

Anyway, I've gone off-topic from Game 8.

On a relevant note. My next turn for Bartholomew Yorke is completed and I'm quite looking forward to continuing playing this Swashbuckler character over the next few turns. Lets see how he takes to learning to ride Queenie, and he's after a few 'choice' books Wink Wink

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Re: Game 8

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:58 am

revvaughan wrote:I wouldn't think he would have a seperate set of formulas for each "world" but a standard one that Game 8 might have found the combination for. I know that in Scramble for Empire the investment in trade has been very large for all the major powers and companies. The British Empire has 1.5 Billion Pounds in reserve and is making about 50 million pounds per turn after the massive trade investments. In other games the economic power of a similar large position was no where as robust.

I concur... I must have TGOK and Scramble or I start to detox.

I am not sure if trade income in Scramble and Glory work the same way since with Scamble in the 1860 we are talking the period of the Industrial revolution with factories driven by steam power, railways and telegraph lines etc.

Basically in scabble positions are limited in what they can do by the 12 Character limit and manpower not cash. So income is a bit like Honour in other AGEMA games.......a way of Keeping score. Or at least this is how it seems to work in the British Empire and amongst its many loyal tax paying trade companies.

Ref trade income in Glory I suspect that it may be linked to some type of conflict scale in a trade region. Clearly being in a war is bad for returns but I also suspect your trade income is hurt not only by wars which you are not involved with but by other peoples conflicts as well and these do not have to involve actual shooting. A slanging match will also hurt merchants confidence.

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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:00 pm

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:revvaughan, have you always played either Great Britain or England in the various games? I just wondered, out of interest, really.

Makes it easier, I suppose, if a player concentrated on one nation with it's own specific information and issues. And each game is different, so it would be quite interesting to know of your thoughts regarding the different incarnations of GB/England you've experienced.

I had a go with the Commonwealth of Great Britain, once. The game folded soon after I took it on, but to be honest the position was too large a World power for me to handle so I'd have probably have had to admit defeat in my playing the position.

Possibly this is a topic best discussed in it's own thread. And could even be opened up to other players who've played multiple incarnations of the same country in the games.

Off-topic. I'd even be interested to see a separate topic thread discussing the pros and cons of splitting a large, World power position between a number of players. I know of a few instance where this has been done, or is being played as such. I've just started playing a position where the country is split between several player positions, under the direct command of Ruler Agema, and myself and the others in the nation are in agreement to work as a co-operative.


I played as a Denmark when I first got started some years ago. I enjoyed it and hated to leave it behind, but there was not enough for me to do in order to keep active. Then I bit off Britain in Game II... It was a economic and military powerhouse that had allies in a strong Prussia. The game had little to real warfare while I was present, but the economy was massive and we had over 1 billion pounds in the bank.

I had asked some of my local friends to participate in the various games by reading the turn and helping with the letters and the orders. Our schedules were rather tight and it didn't work out too well. If that was not something that would bother Richard I would give it a try again I think.

Anyway, I've gone off-topic from Game 8.

On a relevant note. My next turn for Bartholomew Yorke is completed and I'm quite looking forward to continuing playing this Swashbuckler character over the next few turns. Lets see how he takes to learning to ride Queenie, and he's after a few 'choice' books Wink Wink

No doubt this could be an interesting time for the good major.
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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:07 pm

The quote didn't indent it appears...

I played as a Denmark when I first got started some years ago. I enjoyed it and hated to leave it behind, but there was not enough for me to do in order to keep active. Then I bit off Britain in Game II... It was a economic and military powerhouse that had allies in a strong Prussia. The game had little to real warfare while I was present, but the economy was massive and we had over 1 billion pounds in the bank.

Now a response to Stuart...

I tend to think the same way about the economic model. War can hurt some and help others at the same time so I expect that the conflict, weather and a host of other items goes into the matrix. The only thing I would be rather certain about is that he has one formula and changes the variables.

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Re: Game 8

Post by J Flower on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:05 am

The is most probably one standard economic model for the game system, but each game has due to it's unique interaction of player actions differing outcomes, setting differing tax levels & import duties, for example, or trading in different areas in different goods, add in wars, plauges famines natural disasters etc & each game suddenly develops it own unique economic feel.

Certain posiitons may well have an economic bonus, I think England may well have one, although not sure if it is used every game.

Probably fair to say that each game starts from the same foundation, but are built up over time into differing structures.

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Re: Game 8

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:18 am


I suspect that all positions start with inbuilt advantages and disadvantages so if nothing out of the ordinary is happening ie just payers carrying out R & D holding the odd meeting of a diet or a ball, no wars & no famines etc.

- The Emperor & the Pope will drift effortlessly to the Top of the Honour List.

- England, UDP & Venice will see their trade & income grow more rapidly than other powers.

- Powers with large populations like France, Russia, Spain will gain a military advantage due to having thousands of recruits to recruit.

- England, UDP, Italian states & smaller positions with active and inventive populations will make far more discoveries than large socially static positions like Russia & the major Ottoman positions. One naval academny in the UDP or England or a Military academny in Prussia will always seem to come up with more than ten academies in Russia even if the Czar has the higher honour.

As important as the natural drift is how positions seem to be a lot more durable or fragile to outside shocks and changes you may make.

Players of Russia, the Ottomans and Moghul India have in the past noticed that doing anything other than winning a war is going to upset some section of society or other and hurt your honour if not cause actual riots on the streets.

While French, Austrian, Spanish, Swedish & Prussian EH seem's fragile and unless handled with care seem to take a dip at the most minor bad news and take a huge amount of time and effort to turn it round (oddly some positions seem to have robust trade but a fragile EH). In contrast Russia, Venice, England and others seem to be naturally robust and no matter what you do to them they always seem to recover rapidly.

Good example of this was England in G2 which for dacades was battered by the Philip of Anjou player. It lost its Indian colonies, Ireland became a independent Kingdom etc, etc but England still ended up as the major Economic Power in the Game.

Venice is another weed which always gets up but I can confirm that it is possible to break the system if after knocking it down you continue to jump up and down on it. It may have a 100% recovery rate or something like that put 100% of 0 is still 0!

Think a fragile or robust & time in your favour or against goes a long way towards why players like certain positions and do not get on with others. Basically:

- Are you a "Orchid Grower" who can cope with frustration and likes to grow and nurse maid a fragile state. Then pick something like Prussia or the ultimate challenge for this type of player something in the Polish Commonwealth.

- Are do you like a "Stock Car".......a really tough and durable position which you can throw around and will recover rapidly from your mistakes? I which case play Russia or England.

- Or do you like to play against time and the odds? Sweden and the Crimean Khanate are good positions for players who like to play knowing they are against the clock and some day the Russian Hordes are going to make their move. Only the more the Russians delay the worse its going to be.
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Re: Game 8

Post by Deacon on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 pm

I generally agree with Stuart that different positions have different built-in advantages mostly hidden in the rules. I don't think they're equal, but I think everybody has what it takes to succeed... If your neighbors give you the time!

As for the economy in game 8, my guess is that it is the randomness of the start conditions. I think the mechanics of the economy are pretty much the same from game to game, but I suspect Richard somewhat randomized the global starting economy. And I think we hit the lottery in game 8 by starting with really great starting conditions.

The research success baffles me, but to be fair, in game 8 I can afford, and have, an enormous number of research facilities these days. But even in the early days before I had them all on-line, I had good success. I did ask on-turn about it a bit, since I got a ton early then the rate slowed way down, and my interpretation of the answer is, "you got the easy ones, harder inventions take longer."
I take the point that not all research advances are equally hard, so might want to think about that while doing research.
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Re: Game 8

Post by revvaughan on Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:45 am

To bolster Stuarts point on the recovery in game 2... I took over England in 1733 and ran it up until the end. In the time that it was under my care the economic engine produced amazing results every year. I replaced every ship in the massive navy in a two year time frame to modernize and the bank balance still didn't take a hit. The military alliance with Prussia was bolstered by Britain sending roughly 20 million pounds per year to keep the Prussian army and the Riechsarmee in the field. Even with these expenses the economic bottom line was about 1.4 to 1.5 Billion when the game shut down. If I am not mistaken that was with an EH of 6.

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