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Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

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Moshe
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Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by Moshe on Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:47 am

Greetings Friends,

I apologise for missing the December 1700 turn, and, I promise to answer all correspondance for December 1700 & January 1701 this turn!

But, I am here today, to ask for help in the matter of Great Lady Catarina of Braganza!! I have recieved a letter from Good King Pedro II, asking William III to allow this Lady to return to England to retire! I am asking for those of you whom have knowledge of the era, to help me with my options, of which I am seriously stumped!
I am seriously considering honouring this request, but, I'm at a loss as to where and how to fit her into the scheme of things! And, I am at a loss as to what Royal Title to give her?? I understand that she should be granted Honours, but, what type, and, how much??? How old is she, and, does she have any good looking younger sisters????

Moshe
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Re: Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by Deacon on Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:11 am

As Portugal (and hence the Pedro II in question), I will try to answer only with real world facts from history that your character ought to know or be able to gain ready access to, since I don't want to trespass upon anything that might constitute in-game diplomacy. Please slap my hand Richard if you think any of this trespasses. I will try to stick just to known historical fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Braganza

Catarina of Braganza is the sister of the current king of Portugal and was married to Charles the II of England who died in 1685, eventually leading to William the current king.

England currently has laws that preclude monarchs from marrying catholics, but these were passed more recently and not in effect at the time of this marriage, though as the wikipedia entry notes, her religion did cause issue in England even if she never made issue of it. (of course, during this period, anything catholic caused issue in england!)

The marriage was the foundation of the English-Portuguese alliance which persisted for many years, bringing with her dowry bombay and tangiers, as well as a great deal of gold.

English law as noted here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_King_is_dead._Long_live_the_King.

Holds that the King's authority passes automatically with the death of his predecessor and all that its dignity entails. Coronation, therefore, under english law is a nicety, but not a necessity. The King's authority exists regardless of ritual.

Catarina, as Charles II's wife, should receive therefore the title of queen consort, just as any of his legitimate issue would have received titles as well. His death then necessarily makes Catarina Dowager Queen. (while this is pedro's argument, I believe it is also completely factually accurate, so don't think I trespass in saying so here, as I'm adding nothing new to previous statements.)

Catarina is 62 years old and has no younger sisters, her only surviving sibling being King Pedro II of Portugal. She has a great number of nieces and nephews, the king's children, but the oldest of them, the crown prince, is 11. She had a number of miscarriages with Charles II, but no children.

She was reported to be (see the wikipedia entry) quite devoted to her husband the king and was greatly stricken at his death.

The historical archbishop of cantebury at this period is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Tenison
You may draw your own conclusions from this entry.

This is King William III historically:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England

William III of England encouraged the passage of the Act of Toleration (1689), which guaranteed religious toleration to certain Protestant nonconformists.[76] It did not, however, extend toleration as far as William wished, still restricting the religious liberty of Roman Catholics, non-trinitarians, and those of non-Christian faiths.


I don't think I can safely comment beyond this, but if you want to ask factual questions, I will try to answer those. Others unengaged in the game may be able to offer actual opinions :-)


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Re: Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by count-de-monet on Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:00 am

I am in the same position as Deacon and so have to tread very carefully in terms of opinion. This has been relayed in letter to King William....

The Church of England is not against the return of Catherine Braganza to English soil, nor her right to continue her Catholic Faith. They however strongly oppose the title "Queen Dowager" remaining as it suggests a claim/link by a Catholic on the throne of England.

This is more of the ingame position as relayed by the Archbishop of Canterbury (Richard). It does not constitute my own opinion on the matter.
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Moshe
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Great Lady Catarina of Broganza

Post by Moshe on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:31 am

Dear Fellows,

Thank you for your replies, they were helpful and insightful! Now to my second question.....What title should I award the Lady?? Would titling her as simply "Great Lady of England" suffice? Is that honourable enough? Would that title accord her the respect due to her? I plan on buying her a palace in the countryside (upwind of London), servants, carriages and the like! Would 20,000 pounds a year be sufficient for her to live in comfort? I also plan on a Grand Ball (with matching funds from the English Player, if he can afford it) for the month of February, to welcome the Lady home!!! I also plan to escort the Lady into the Ball on my own arm as she arrives!!!!!

Is there anything I've forgotten, or, any more that I should do???? I'm open to advice and/or suggestions!!!!

Moshe


Last edited by Moshe on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : a slight addition)
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Re: Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by Deacon on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:58 pm


I can't answer that question beyond the letter you received as that would constitute in-game diplomacy.

I think my letter reflects what Pedro II wishes.
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Re: Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by Deacon on Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:18 pm



Oh, but I'd add, Catarina is currently in Lisbon. William is currently in the netherlands. Both would need to travel to england before a ball there could take place!
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Re: Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by Deacon on Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:26 pm

This is the official Agema blurb I have on my turn regarding Catherine/Catarina which I assume you would get if you asked as well, copied verbatim with a typo noted:

Catherine of Braganza
(alternative spelling; Catarina de Braganza)

Catherine is Portuguese, a Roman Catholic, and was the wife of King Charles II of England until
1685. The marriage had originally been arranged as part of an alliance between Portugal and England
(her being the daughter of King John IV of Portugal(sic) ). The marriage effectively brought to England by way of
dowry Tangier and Bombay as well as 2,000,000 Portuguese crowns in 1662, while England promised
to help keep Portugal independent of Spain by providing forces on land and sea should Spain
attack.

The marriage was said to be strained because while Catherine adored the king he was more interested
in his mistresses. The couple were childless, which induced some courtiers to encourage the
king to divorce her but he never did. Even when in 1678 they accused her of trying to poison him
so that his Roman Catholic brother James could take the throne they were not believed and she was
eventually cleared of all charges of high treason.

Just before his death in 1685 she was instrumental in converting King Charles to Roman Catholicism,
and then retired from public life to Somerset House. Seven years later she returned to her
native Portugal after being accused of sheltering Jacobite plotters. Catherine (historically) became
Regent of Portugal in 1704 when her brother King Pedro II became too ill to actively rule. During
this time she continued to favour the Anglo-Portuguese alliance.

Her full title, from 6th February 1685 until the present day (1700) is Her Majesty The Queen Dowager
of England, Scotland and Ireland.
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Re: Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by Moshe on Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:44 pm

Shalom Friends,

I shall entitle the Lady as ""Queen Dowager", but, the Queen Dowager of no particular nation! That should make all involved satisfied on all points!
I am King, and this is my decision!

Mpshe
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Re: Great Lady Catarina of Braganza

Post by Deacon on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:08 pm


I will look for that confirmation in game :-)
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Moshe
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Queen Dowager Catarina

Post by Moshe on Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:34 am

Deacon wrote:
I will look for that confirmation in game :-)

Consider it done, you'll receive the letter this game turn!!

Moshe

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