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Being a Pirate

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Jason
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Being a Pirate

Post by Jason on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Just out of general interest, as I am not playing a pirate lord or considering doing so, but if there is anyone who has played a pirate in game-how does it actually work?

I mean in general terms, how does the role get recruits? Is 'income' only from raids and acts of piracy? I assume that when you start in the role, you get at least one ship but do you have a base? If so, is it a shipyard, etc?

And honour, is it right that your honour score goes up as you commit more acts of piracy?

Just curious Smile

Stuart Bailey
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Re: Being a Pirate

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:54 am

Jason,

Making a profit and not getting hung as a "standard" pirate in GDR is a sod. Major powers like Spain get really niggled about ONE kidnapped Archbishop (oh and the sack of Havana) and spend more on trying to hunt you that you cost them in the first place. In my view the way forward for fun and profit afloat is either 1) Privateering.......get someone else to provide you with recruits and cash to do things to their foes legally or 2) Lots of legal political cover.......pocket Hon Members, Trade Companies and Colonial Governors and the like.

If you want to see a good example of this type of thing have a look at Game 7. Not a "pirate" in sight but the King of France and the Holy Roman Emperor are both dishing out letters of Marque, cash and recruits to various "privateers" like its gone out of fashion and no one seems overly bothered about where various trade companies at getting some of their cargo.

The bearded one of olde bristol town Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad pirat Very Happy
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Jason
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Re: Being a Pirate

Post by Jason on Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:35 pm

Thanks Stuart Smile

Like I say, not planning to become a pirate but just interested to know Smile

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Re: Being a Pirate

Post by Guest on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:33 pm

Not so, Stuart.

France has in the past paid 3rd parties to patrol waters where there were not enough French ships to protect traders, but France does not issue Letters of Marque. I have no need to. To the best of my knowledge, neither does King James of England. William lost many trade ships to French forces, the cargoes from which have gone to compensate French merchants for trading losses caused by foreign piracy. For each ship lost I take 5 back; it soon becomes very expensive for the enemies of France.

You are correct, though, that Leopold has admitted issuing Letters of Marque and encouraging piracy against French ships. It is also significant that since he started involving 3rd parties, piracy in the Mediterranean in particular has become a major problem affecting non-combatants. This may now be a permanent feature of G7. As you appear to be in the pay of Leopold it is most useful to learn he is providing recruits in addition to cash. No doubt when the crews are captured by the French navy they will expose their master and the ports which have been protecting them. This is likely to be highly embarrassing for some. As you say, it is difficult not to be hung. How delicious if the pirate who kidnapped a Spanish Archbishop turns out to be working for Leopold and sailing from Spanish ports. Very Happy

Stuart Bailey
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Piracy V Privateering - How to turn a Profit & Save ones neck

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:00 pm

Help!!!!! I seem to have been corrected on a point of French law by the mighty sunny king himself.

In France they are not called letters of Marque and Jean Bart, Forbin, Rene-Duguay-Trouin and the rest of the French Corsairs are patriotic French Naval Officers acting under French Commissions. I humble myself before the majesty of French Slander and liable law.....no offence was ment to these noble and patriotic French Hero's D

My solicitor advises me that I should not even speculate on what Duguary-Trouin and other French Corsairs were sailing under when working for one non French Prince (James) against another non French Prince (William) whom at the time France was not at war with?

However, I like to think that the intervention of the French Monarch proves the point that independant Piracy is a mugs game and the Privateering (by whatever name) route is the way to go. To the English Rene-Duguay-Trouin and the rest of the Jacobite crews are pirates and if taken they would probably swing. BUT and its a series of big buts due to patronage and high level political support 1) French ports are safe to resupply and re-fit 2) They can sale their prizes at full price and 3) If in real trouble they may even be saved by a French Line ship.

Thus if Jason or anyone else is thinking about running a Pirate they key points would seem to be A) Dont call yourself a pirate and B) A good war is good for the old patronage and keeps Navies busy. This is important since to give a unconfirmed example from game 7 a boreingly under-employed Spanish Fleet and Int Service spent years hunting down ships which raided Havana and offered 50,000 per ship reward! Would never have happened if Louis and the Emperor etc and started the War over Spain at the rght time.

Problem with Nobs, no consideration for other peoples business plans pirat


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Re: Being a Pirate

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:30 pm

Thank you Stuart ... it is important to stick to facts not propaganda. Smile

For your reference King James Stuart was considered a Prince Etranger (Foreign Prince) at Versailles with patents of French nobility. It was common for Jacobite nobles to be granted titles by different courts, though not all were recognised. Many English nobles also have titles in the Scottish and Irish peerages. One interesting example in G7 is the Duke of Berwick, half brother of both King James and Marlborough, who is leading French troops in England as a Marshall of France. His official French title would be Duc de Fitzjames, but to keep things simple in the game I continue to refer to him as the Duke of Berwick. In real history he was also granted a Spanish noble title, Duke of Liria and Jrica, though somehow I can't see this happening in G7. For reference although his English titles were forfeit in the eyes of William, they were not so in the eyes of King James so it is still legitimate to refer to him as the Duke of Berwick.

You are correct that it would not be advisable to speculate on the loyalties of Contre-Amiral Rene Duguay-Trouin without checking back issues of the newspapers. In G7 I regret to say that Jean Bart died in 1701 before the commencement of hostilies; Admiral Claude, Comte de Forbin-Gardanne sails aboard his flagship Le Solei Royale in command of the French Caribbean Battle Fleet, which is currently engaged in hunting down pirates! I don't recall there ever being a time after his father's death when James Stuart could not be considered at war with William. There was a time when the press reported many 3rd parties using Jacobite flags to act as pirates in various corners of the world. Historically Jacobites did disperse after 1695 so in theory it is possible that Jacobite exiles were able to buy ships themselves and spontaneously carry out acts of piracy beyond the central control of King James. They do not fit the pattern of strategy employed by the Jacobite Navy which has been to hit Williamite trade round England only.

William hasn't had much chance to hang Jacobite sailors as throughout the campaign the Jacobites have lost only 2 corvettes. However, I found out a few months ago, much to my surprise, that captured Jacobite crews have not been treated as pirates by William, but pressed into service by Williamite ships! It now adds greatly to the morale of the Jacobite Navy in boarding actions who consider it their duty to liberate more of their former comrades and treat them as heros when they are freed! If this was to be a widespread policy then it will almost certainly make it easier to capture enemy ships.

Otherwise I would tend to agree with you about the difficulties of running any kind of pirate position. Piracy is always much easier in times of war when pirates can hide behind false flags and make common cause with other countries which may be encouraged to turn a blind eye. It may be different outside of Europe and America. Perhaps piracy is easier in the Far East or the Gulf or Slave Coast? It is probably easy to play a pirate for a few turns, but longer term it must be one of the hardest types of position to play. Probably just as well for the rest of us. elephant
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Jason
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Re: Being a Pirate

Post by Jason on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:13 pm

I wonder if historically pirates were more wider ranging than they are in game, and that is why they perhaps were more successful historically than in Glory?

My reason for saying that is I have a half memory of reading about some pirates who operated on the North American eastern seaboard and when things got a bit hot for them, they upsticks to the waters of India. In game, pirates don't seem to move around that much-do they? Question

Going off at a tangent, also learnt today that Lundy Island was attacked by French privateers into the 1700s...

Stuart Bailey
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Re: Being a Pirate

Post by Stuart Bailey on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:59 pm

The Red Sea run round Africa to Indian Waters was popular with American based pirates like Long Ben Avery for various reasons inc rich prizes and getting away from waters which were getting a bit too well policed for comfort. Other ships also crossed the Atlantic to African waters or went round Cape Horn for for basically the same reasons.

For anyone playing a out and out pirate like the "Blackbeard" position hit and run has a lot to be said for it (or so I am told) esp if you run away to places where it takes months for orders to arrive from the upset Capital.

For the more static pirate operation like the North African corsairs not making a mess on your own doorstep is a valuable tactic. I understand that the Historic North African Pirates often ignored ships from major Naval powers as taking one caused too much trouble in the long run.

This is probably true for Gloire as well......... no one is going to miss the odd NPC ship or even one from warring powers. But we probably all know some rulers who get really unreasonable about even one ship or Archbishop.

On the other hand some would say that taking the safe option is not much fun and the true joy of playing a pirate position is in seeing how much you can annoy the "mighty"
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Jason
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Re: Being a Pirate

Post by Jason on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:49 pm

On the other hand some would say that taking the safe option is not much fun and the true joy of playing a pirate position is in seeing how much you can annoy the "mighty"

I suspect you're right-you play the role knowing you won't last...and just cause as much chaos as you can...

More I think about it, more I could see the appeal... Twisted Evil


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