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France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

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Stuart Bailey
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France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:31 am


October 1706 La Gloire du Roi has now shown up and the news for all non playing observers.......is that there is no news or at least not the fire, brimstone and mass bloodletting most people expected. scratch scratch

Non events included:

1) Big Lou is still stuck in Chalons-sur-Marne but for reasons unknown the Hapsburgs are not crashing mortar fire down on Big Lou and streets full of French Cavalry. While the French are not throwing the kitchen sink at the Austrian siege lines. In fact the only thing which seems to have happened is the arrival of more allied troops?
If things do return to normal the Army of the Nord may have a small problem in that as well as reinforced Austrians to their front they now have Spanish & Reicharmee (who may be Dutch ?) troops behind them.

2) The French scouted out Lyons but do not seem to have done anything else.

3) At Perpignan the Spanish had the French & Austrian commanders to dinner.......seems a very civilized siege.

Basically everyone seems to be marking time waiting for the Yorktown diplomats to sort things out

4) In Yorktown the Emperors man said he is not willing to make a peace wth the French seperate to Spain and the Dutch. The Spanish have said if the French want to only deal with one set of talks that is Ok by them and the Emperor's man speaks for the whole House of Hapsburg.

If the Dutch say the same it seems that its down to the Marquis of Kersaint & Von Reldburg to bring peace to continental Europe.

In other news:

5) The Queen of Spain has had a third Girl.

6) King James has said he is not going to marry The Queen of Spain's sister even if the match now has Papal blessing......perhaps he is not impressed with all the girls in this family. The alternative view is that since he said this from Paris he is having his chain pulled by the Marquis de Torcy.

7) However, even if the Wedding is now off the English and the Spanish seem to have stopped shooting each other so its only a part success for De Torcy.

Cool English seem no closer to working out who is going to be King & Queen of England. But in theme for month they are not shooting at each other.

Clearly G7 is having a nasty outbreak of santa spirit and goodwill to all men..........its never going to last.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Deacon on Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:26 am

Interesting. I guess somebody picked up the Jacobites. A public rejection of a marriage proposal doesn't seem like a richard NPC kind of action to me. I wish them luck.

Of course, I could be wrong and it's just Richard not wanting to make any decisions for the position if he can avoid it...
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:04 am

A new thread with a new title is a good call.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:27 am

Apart from a new Jacobite I can think of three other possible reasons why Hapsburg wedding planners are having a bad time and the Wedding of James Stuart and the Queen of Spain's sister has gone down the plug hole.

1) The French do not like the prospect of an Hapsburg Queen of England and they may have pulled some diplomatic strings.

2) English factions who either want King William/ a Protestant Monarch or wish to limit Royal Power probably do not want a Hapsburg Queen and could have used their diplomatic orders to sink the plan.

3) Finally we have the game system where if a strong player position asks a NPC for anything the answer is "No"

Nothing much to do with the theme of this thread but with King James back in Paris and King William in St James Palace are we seeing England starting to drift back to 1700 normality? Our active Whig, Tory and Merchant (HWIC) players may dabble with thoughts of a Stuart Restoration and Jacobinism but this has a bad effect on their honour and means they can never trust their Protestant troops.

A bloody minded NPC King James sat in Paris and basically saying no to English "Politico's" who want Stuart Lite (ie no Jusuits & no French Style absolutism) should keep the position out of Whig & Tory control and ready for the next true Stuart Romantic and follower of the divine right of Kings to pick up.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:59 pm

A compromise around a Protestant settlement might be acceptable in England. Or if the Jacobin npc accepted the Church of England and then married someone acceptable to the Dutch. It has to be remembered that the Dutch player is not going to be happy with a settlement which does not take into account their position. But if the stuarts have rejected a Spanish marriage I would have thought that a Dutch marriage even more unlikely.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:02 am

I can not help but note that we are still on page 1 of France V The Hapsburgs and things are are starting to drift in a Anglo direction.

The Emperor's 2nd son has finally bowed to family pressure and ordered Spanish forces across the border where they have taken Beziers & Perpignan could fall. Big bad Lou is trapped in Chalons-Sur-Mare and risks getting blown to bits by Austrian Siege Artillery.

The Armies of Prince Eugene & the Duc de Vendome are both in highly interesting not to mention risky positions plus were are the armies of Berwick, The Elector of Bavaria & the main Dutch Army?

The Fete of Europe could be decided either in the fields of France or by Franco-Austrian diplomats yet in G7 and on the forum the only thing about this which seems to matter is how this with influence England confused

I have seen other games dominated by events in certain area's ie the Ottomans march on Vienna, the French invade Germany etc before but whats odd about events in G7 is that the English are not even fighting in France.

I was wondering if any other games of Glori du Roi were as Anglocentric or is G7 just a monument to that happy band of players - Churchill, Norfolk, James Stuart, John Henry, The Directors of the HWIC and Edward Teach etc to spread havoic and confusion across the whole of Europe?

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Jason on Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:10 pm

I'm hopeful that we will see an outbreak of peace...though to be frank I think that unless the Austrians decide to be a bit more reasonable in their demands for peace, the French will fight to the last drop of everyone elses blood Wink

Of course, a victorious Austria, will they feel they are now topdog and start to throw their weight around elsewhere...


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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:47 am

Jason wrote:I'm hopeful that we will see an outbreak of peace...though to be frank I think that unless the Austrians decide to be a bit more reasonable in their demands for peace, the French will fight to the last drop of everyone elses blood Wink

Of course, a victorious Austria, will they feel they are now topdog and start to throw their weight around elsewhere...


My understanding was the Emperor offered the new French Government the option of allowing the diplomat's at Yorktown to sort things out as per the new rules or if French Honour demanded it fighting.

The fact that the French have said nothing in public but have attacked might perhaps be a way of trying to improve their diplomatic position but I sort of assumed it signalled that France was now lead by a proper War Leader and we were going to see action Very Happy

As for Austria trying to throw its weight around I think it will have to build some ships larger than a row boat first.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:21 am

The Austrian fleet consists of more than a row boat, it is the grand size of three galleys (one got sunk!), plus a couple of prizes in port. With that I cant really throw any weight around. Anything else in the newsletter was allies flying the Austrian flag.
The French attacks whilst my troops went into truce mode seemed to indicate a lack of willingness to seek peace and an attempt to scupper the peace talks, also the requirement that Spain and the Dutch should not be included. So I dont think the most recent French player wants peace.
I would not want to risk a negotiated peace which would leave either the Spanish or Dutch at war by themselves with France, that would be unfair. However, I will continue with the peace talks and this means that if there is a peace which includes/protects the Dutch and Spanish it will also be fair as being reached through the game process and should ensure the continuation of game balance.
I dont know what the eventual peace settlement would be, but I would have thought something like Mons and Hispaniola back to Spain, Franche Comte back to the Empire (which is not the same as Austria) and something to protect the Dutch position would not have been unreasonable.
(I am not engaging in out of game diplomacy here as the last French player stated he had left this forum)
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:49 pm

HNY guys. Interesting....

I'm not sure that the peace will break out soon. Europe is just too unstable and unless the various countries see a benefit to themselves in not battling or accept some more limited war aims I guess the "peace conference" is bust.

The conundrum for me is the English situation: I suspect that of the factions running the country (and is that Scotland and Ireland too?) there is only really the Sons of Liberty who have any claim (see peace conference).

If England got a new government who sought peace then France could negotiate but at present the French seem to allied to the English who will prevent Spain from negotiating.

I just don't get the Dutch position - I had assumed they were allied to and potentially commanded by the same English monarch. But that doesnt seem possible at present...

Any clues?

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:21 pm

I think the English have now made peace with France and Spain. If they have made peace with themselves is a different question.

Since France has accepted a victory over England limited to the gain of a few colonies the Yorktown peace talks could in theory patch up an agreement. Probably with a couple of towns being returned to the original owners.

This would no doubt suit the Hapsburgs who could then claim to have resisted or even roled back French expansion a bit.

For France the situation is a bit like the 1670's when Louis XiV major victory and potential take over of the whole of Flanders was spoiled by Dutch Actions and limited to a few smaller gains.

Then Louis decided on a bloody war of revenge and an attempt to wipe out the Dutch Republic to get even for what he viewed as the Dutch "Stabbing him in the Back". But since his wild days he may have mellowed a bit........so who knows what he will do about the "Imperial Stab in the Back" spoiling his great and crushing victory over perfidious Albion ?????

If it was just Austria it would no doubt be all out war against the Emperor. But the pro Imperial or at least anti French positions of some other powers makes it more difficult to call since while many will fight a war over a point of principal rather fewer are willing to fight a war they think they could lose over a point of principal.

Ref the Dutch I am fairly sure the active "Dutch" player is not King William/The Stadtholder but the Grand Pensionnary. Who seems to directly controls the forces of the UDP.

With King William now being a NPC controlled by Agema you would normally expect "Dutch" forces loyal to him to follow the orders of the Grand Pensionnary player (as is the case) while his English, Scots & Irish "Williamite" forces follow their own National leaders such as the English 1st Lord of the Treasury. This however gets more confused when the 1st Lord of the Treasury has deserted William for the Jacobites and the British Empire has several factions.

One way of looking at it is that the British Empire is the new Poland and the Dutch player is the new Augustus the Strong of Saxony-Poland. In that he has his own power base in the UDP and as a friend/ally/adviser to the King of England, Scotland and Ireland he can give orders to the Military etc of those Kingdoms. Who may act on them or may totally ignore them in favour of orders from a local Jacobite or other leader.

Bit like a Saxon player trying to establish a bit of Royal Control and/or get orders followed in Poland, Ukraine, Courland orders should perhaps not be considered "orders" and more a possible basis for consideration.

On this basis the Sons of Liberty & Blackbeard can be viewed as Cossacks, the HWIC as Danzig and the Whigs & Tories as Polish Great Lords. Perhaps they need to follow the Polish example and have a election to decide the King or Queen?

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:35 pm

Stuart - that makes things clearer to me - all apart from the Spain not being at war with England. Though surely Spain has been provoked far beyond any rational man would accept with bombardments and post blockading by "English" forces. I had wondered if that was the work of someone entirely other than the English....

Love the description of the English factions - brilliantly illuminating.

All we need to do is watch for the fall-out and act accordingly. Do you think there will be a meaningful peace - or a lull - with key positions now NPC or is the madness set to continue?

I could argue that such a deeply schismed England will take a decade to start recovering but France could re-launch itself in much shorter time. If that's the case why would Austria/Spain want to stop twisting Frances nose? And every smaller European position must fear a recovering France looking to gather support at home with a 'foreign' adventure?

But its interesting looking in!

Anyhow I bet theres no election........

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:23 pm


My own view is that England has the potential to recover very quickly. The French have taken a couple of colonies and sunk/captured a few Royal Navy Ships but they have returned the captured Merchant ships and have not done lasting damage to either Englands economic base or its military.

To be fair to the French they were fairly generous in Victory. I know if I had been leading them and had 100 English Lineships trapped in the Humber I would have gone in for the kill with fireships and massed shore batteries fireing heated shot. At say 15,000 recruits a year 100 lineships takes a long time to replace! And probably a lot longer than English feelings of gratitude that Franch only took a few colonies, killed not that many English and dumped them with a Catholic King they dont really want.

As well as the defeat by France not being that bad the English factions now include many of the most energetic and experienced players and NPC's in G7 tampered in crisis characters such as Norfolk, Henry, Martel, Myngs etc are survivors from the school of hard knocks who have all been there, done that and got the bloody tee shirt to prove it. The question is do they hold grudges? And can they work with each other?

I think one English faction wanted to unite all England in a war with Spain but the other factions voted this one down. Some of the English seems to be actively pro Spanish while others just thought wrong opponent, wrong time.

The King of Spain for his part gets on fine with some of the English and like a true son of the House of Hapsburg tends to view anything which is not Bourbon or Ottoman as a potential marriage partner for the House of Austria and not to be fought against. Hell with three daughters already he may even have to consider Ottomans or even...... speak it very softly........Bourbons. (No.....it will never happen)

Ref the point of this thread the Emperor offered the new French Govt a peace conference settlement as a way of both sides saving face. It also tests out French intentions ref the House of Hapsburg and their Dutch Allies.

Will be interesting to see if the new French Govt accept or decline the offer and if they do accept will it be a lasting peace or just a cease fire in the 200 year old struggle between the House of Hapsburg and the French. My money is on a) accept b) cease fire but I could be really, really wrong.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Ardagor on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:55 am

The allies continue to hammer away at the poor French, interesting turn.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Jason on Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:29 pm

And now we have French renegade troops on the loose (a new development?) as well as mass desertions and two more major towns falling, I wonder how much longer France can hold out...
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:40 pm

And interesting about the fireships. Dutch? And if so are they now at war with England? I expect that European whipping boy, Louis, was the target and England is now such a nonentity that burning/blocking a major port there has no effect.

Or was it other pirates attacking those Dunquirker pirates?

Now Spain is not trying to batter England nor marry off a princess either. Funny old courtship where English factions bombard Spanish ports.

Good for the Pontiff for b*ll*cking his informant - what could he have possibly known? He'd have had to had divine intervention to get the G7 story straight!

Anyhow it looks like the lines are being more closely drawn and bets may now be placed with some regard to the bookies bloodpressures.

Seems a bit tame lately? Hope you guys all got something to smile at.......

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Deacon on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:32 pm

Jason wrote:And now we have French renegade troops on the loose (a new development?) as well as mass desertions and two more major towns falling, I wonder how much longer France can hold out...

As long as Richard wants, since he's running it.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Jason on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:04 pm

Deacon wrote:
Jason wrote:And now we have French renegade troops on the loose (a new development?) as well as mass desertions and two more major towns falling, I wonder how much longer France can hold out...

As long as Richard wants, since he's running it.

There is that! Very Happy though way things are going, soon all 'France' will consist of are two cul de sacs in Paris...lets see how many troops can fit in them!

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:53 pm

Assume my G7 return of orders is still in a snow drift.

But from comments to date its a pity I never accepted the 2-1 odds being offered on Southampton being the next English town to go up in Flames. With the city full of Williamite troops and the port full of French Ships it always looked like the best bet to me.

But who ordered the attack William as King of England or William as Stadtholder and his Dutch cronies?

I think our bookie friend in England should start to offer odds on a) Which of England's many factions come out in favour of declareing War on the Dutch & b) If James Stuart ever sets foot on English soil how long before he is shot, stabbed, posioned or falls out of a window?

As added advantage if James the Younger does fall out of a window it can all be blamed on the Hapsburgs getting huffy about snubbed Wedding offers.

As for how Richard plays powers which suddenly become NPC mid war my experience is that you can make progress against them but any attempted short cuts or errors get cut to bits.

Suspect France will be kept ticking over waiting for a new government to make a decision to either fight or accept the Hapsburg offer of a peace conference.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Suprisingly mine turned up in the snow today, I was expecting tomorrow. How many English factions do people reckon there are at the moment. Trying to count I come up with
Lord Howard - current English Govt and played
King James - position dropped
Williamite/Orangist/Dutch - played
Mynges faction - played
Honourable West Indies Co (are they pirates?)- dont know if they are played
Blackbeard (yes lets presume they are pirates) - dont know if they are still played
French army - still in England but player suspected to have dropped

Does anyone know of any other factions or have views on this? Time for a Scottish faction? Perhaps not, that could get too confusing.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Jason on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:24 pm

Ahhh, the joys of play by email...no snow days Wink

Hell, Scottish faction, why not have a Welsh nationalist faction too-we have nothing to lose but our Sheep!

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:46 pm

There be plenty enough factions already thanks, and not all of them are English. Lets not get those sheep involved just yet eh?

But just in case, I'll be looking at crampon equipped wellies.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:58 pm

November 1706 La Gloire du Roi showed up today......so for non players of G7 here are the highlights:

1) The English have offered Spain a non aggression pact which has been accepted by Madrid. Since the English Lord Treasurer also abolished all domestic taxes this month I assume the English considered a conflict over the Spanish attacking French Ships in Dublin a cost they could do without.

2) Interestingly the treaty was put forward by the Ex (?) Pro William Tory/Son of Liberty leader John Henry but with the backing of the Pro James Stuart Whig leader the Duke of Norfolk and has the support of the HWIC so it seems the English or at least some of them may be talking to each other.

Things they may want to talk about now include:

3) What to do about a Dutch Fireship attack on the French Fleet in Southampton......dont think it did much damage to Southampton itself but people trying to toast your (unwanted) guests is not polite.

4) Is King James a nancy boy - after turning down the Spanish Wedding he then gives the brush off to Mary of Flanders neice & favourite of Louis XIV Gabriel del Montosa Countess of Hainault. Very, Very un Stuart like actions, methinks that the story about the warming pan is perhaps true! James Stuart himself seems to be showing no sign to actually wanting to leave France (Fears going the same way as his dad?) so we now have the odd situation in England of a English Govt headed by a Jacobite using the Royal Seal of King William & a Williamite Parliament to actually run the country.

Turning away from England to the land's of reason, honour and Music that make up the HRE

5) The Emperor is not happy that someone is pinching his mail

6) The Elector of Bavaria & Reichmarshal seems to have abandoned the campaign in France for Music & Christmas

7) The Elector of Prussia is trying to establish friendly relations with his fellow Protestants the Dutch. Wonder if he should have asked for a diplomatic briefing first?

In France

Cool The Spanish have taken Perpignan and the great Naval base of Toulon - only no one was at home, they with all in Southampton nearly being turned into deep fried frog by the Dutch.

9) At Chalons-Sur-Marne Louis XIV holds out. Oddly without the Austrians dropping lots of mortar bombs on him and his trapped Cavalry......why not? are they short of gun powder or feel that hitting Louis could spoil diplomatic efforts?

The French Army of relief under Vendome seems to have looked at Prince Eugine siege lines and decided on a more indirect approach to save Louis. They moved East probably in a attempt to put themselves across Austrian supply lines a move which was a) ignored by the Dutch b) blocked by a Austrian army of observation and c) Brutally attacked by the Spanish Army of Flanders who do not seem to understand the noble art of manover and modern warfare at all! Vendome rearguard of 42 Squadrons of trotting Lancers were brutally mis-used by a mere 32 Squadrons of Cuirassiers who just crashed into them at the gallop and cut them

This then exposed Vendome main force to a brutal pounding from the Army of Flanders field guns. With only Regt pop guns to reply with this resulted in cries of "you don't know what you are doing" aimed at the French General by his deserting troops.

10) Ref Spain - someone smudged a panting, its wedding plans are in ruins and its envoy in Rome got told off, plus the Swiss Accountants have just stitched the Treasury up for another 200,000. But the good news is that the Kings third daughter (Emperors 4th Granddaughter) has just been christened - Eugenie Martina Hapsburg. God knows how Hapsburg diplomacy is going to find suitable matches for all these girls.

11) In the America's the Yorktown talks have got off to a stuttering start with the French putting forward the offer of a cease fire from April if the other parties agree. The Austrians have confirned that they are happy to settle with the French provided the agreement covers all Hapsburgs & the UDP. While the UDP have said they want their own man at the table rather than being represented by Austria. Words paint, watch & drying come to mind.

12) Russia & the Ottomans have returned to their favourite hobby of Othodox Theology and denying the authority of the Patriarch of Rome.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Ardagor on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:53 pm

It would appear that slow moving (trotting) lancers is more or less useless, they need to hit the enemy hard and fast to make the most of their initial charge, where they will win or lose. To be able to gallop against the enemy in tight formation without losing control require drill, probably quite a lot. so the conclusion is if you want a lancer regiment or two, DRILL them before sending them in harms way. Horse obedience training would certainly also be helpful.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by J Flower on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:00 pm

Problem for Cavalry is the faster they move the harder the formation is to control.

Cavalry without lances may seem at a disadvantage, however it needs a lot of training to make a good lancer. It could be viewed more as a terror weapon than anything else once the featr of the lancer is overcome, get to close quaters & the advantage of the length of the lance is usless, indeed it gets in the way.

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