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France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

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The Real Louis
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by The Real Louis on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:29 am

albreda wrote:A question; who are the next in line of William and James?

Now that is what might eb called a "loaded question"...

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:17 pm

albreda wrote:A question; who are the next in line of William and James?

If I understand the situation correctly in G7:


1) James III claims to be the legitimate son of the murdered James II & his Queen Mary of Modena. So if you discount stories sbout warming pans he has a good claim to be King of England. The only real problem is he is a Catholic and under the 1690's Act of Succession a Catholic can not be King of England.

Since Parliament has already removed the Test Acts and other 1680's anti Catholic legislation they can if they so wish remove the 1690's Act of Succession allowing James to take the Throne. Or James could become Anglican.

2) Next in line after James III is King William IV who claims to be the son of James II eldest daughter Mary Stuart & her Dutch Husband William of Orange (both now dec'd).(Note this is a in game Character only no such historic person existed)

Since both James III & William IV are both unmarried and have no legit heirs the next in line is James II youngest daughter Anne Stuart who like her sister Mary is a Protestant and is married to Prince George of Denmark. In 1707 she has several young children inc her eldest son George. (The Historical son of Queen Anne Stuart died before his mother in 1711)

3) After the Stuarts you have relatives of William III from Hanover & Hesse Darmstadt who all seem to be called George for some reason.

4) G7 also has another option Roger Martel son of James II elder brother when he was in exile. Nothing special about being a Stuart by-blow I hear you cry......Monmouth, Berwick the list covers about half the English Nobility. Roger however claims that his parents were secretly married and he can prove it. However, being a Catholic and very fond of his own neck he has never really pushed the claim.

Many people in England are no doubt praying for unfortunate accidents to happen to James & William.......and that young George Stuart gets some really good Doctors appointed.

For those who support a Catholic King of England it seems James III needs a wife or they need to do a really good PR job on Roger Martel. I am not sure if being the World's largest Slave Trader, Spanish Post Master General & at different times a drinking buddy of Blackbeard & his most Catholic Majesty Charles Von Hapsburg really make you "Royal Material" in the eyes of the Whig & Tory Lords.




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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:48 pm

Thanks Stuart. That's a great summary. And and interesting situation. king

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:50 pm

So James 3 is William 4s Uncle? And they're similar ages? Well they ought to just sort this out between themselves then Laughing

Family arguments eh?
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Ardagor on Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:45 pm

The French royal army must be in a rather bad shape, 3 battalions of Huguenots under Dutch command attacking the breach at Chalon-sur-Marne, driving back and breaking the morale of the 4 battalion strong regiment de Mirabeau in a very quick manner indeed. Also a desperate French counterattack was easily driven off, forcing the French to accept honours of war (against King Louis furious protests) and the Royal army on the road to Paris.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:33 pm


Jan 1707 Gloire du Roi has shown up and for current non G7 players here are the highlights:

1) The Siege of Chalons-sur-Marne is over with this small and not very important city given up by Louis XIV in person and a French Army of 72 Battalions of foot, 142 Squadrons of Horse & 15 Artillery Batteries. Which raises two questions a) How did they all fit? and b) why did the Austrians not bombard the place? Are
the Austrian High Command all animal lovers?

General feeling on both sides seems to be its cold, wet and no ones wants to risk getting killed just before a truce which is now confirmed as starting in April. Is that the start or the end of April?

2) Possible exceptions to this being the Louis XIV hating Huguenot regiments in the Dutch Army who captured the Breach and Cantemir's Moldavians who raided the camp of the Grand Dauphin in Orleans. This raid failed in its major objective of taking the Grand Dauphin or at least his campaign silver but it did at least humiliate the French Hussars. It seems that like their Lancers French light cavalry are a pale and inferior copy of the real thing.

3) If one lot of Hapsburg hirelings are happy another lot are saying nasty things about the Emperors Royal Clerks. Seems he said to privateers in his cause it was Ok to carry on to April..........but did his Clerks issue amended paperwork? No! So we now have a lot of prizes in legal limbo. Apart from its 4 Galley's the Austrian Navy is basically a couple of clerks and a large pad of letters of marque and they still get it wrong!

4) English seem to be trying to convince the Scots to form a Union. Since the mostly Calvinist Scots have not gone bankrupt and the English King/PM are Catholic I dont see this happening without truely massive bribes being paid to the Scots Nobility.

5)James III has now spent a whole month in England and no one has yet tried to stab, shot or drop him out of a window. But most of the wise money says its merely a matter of time.

6) Roger Martel (or is that now Rodrigo Martello) has shown up in Spain. No doubt to explain to some of his best clients that times are hard, insurance rates are up, stock is hard to come by and he is sadly having to put his prices for new workers up. No doubt when Mr 10% puts up the price of tobacco, sugar, cotton in the near future it will all be down to greedy Spanish & Virginia Planters putting up their raw material prices.

No proof yet exist's that the HWIC is anything other than honest merchants but oddly French Governors have banned them from their Islands.

Another 13 French Merchant rivals of the HWIC have gone missing at sea.

6) Finally, while the rest of Europe stays indoors saying how cold it is.......what does Charles of Sweden do in the middle of winter?.......Invades Russia!
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:56 pm

I wonder if the Dutch Huguenots get a bonus for fighting against King Louis and his army. Any views out there on that? Stuarts commentary is always spot on, apart from whilst Chalons in itself is unimportant now the road to Paris is truly clear with the other cities to the east of Paris also in Dutch or Austrian hands and the rest of France is being picked up by the Spanish. The truce will probably come into force before a drive can be made to Paris, but if the war resumes the next set of battles will probably be for the capital which is now in the frontline.
This strategic position may be helpful for the allies in their negotiations on peace terms. As is the clear position that the Austrians, Dutch and Spanish have all individually out fought the French now. Come the April talks not much of France will still be held by the French. The advantage the allies have is that they can individually take a share of the fighting burden at different times, but the French havent had that luxery.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:38 pm

Basileus wrote:I wonder if the Dutch Huguenots get a bonus for fighting against King Louis and his army. Any views out there on that? Stuarts commentary is always spot on, apart from whilst Chalons in itself is unimportant now the road to Paris is truly clear with the other cities to the east of Paris also in Dutch or Austrian hands and the rest of France is being picked up by the Spanish. The truce will probably come into force before a drive can be made to Paris, but if the war resumes the next set of battles will probably be for the capital which is now in the frontline.
This strategic position may be helpful for the allies in their negotiations on peace terms. As is the clear position that the Austrians, Dutch and Spanish have all individually out fought the French now. Come the April talks not much of France will still be held by the French. The advantage the allies have is that they can individually take a share of the fighting burden at different times, but the French havent had that luxery.


I doubt if Huguenot troops in Dutch Service get a bonus for fighting the Royal Catholic Troops of the King of France since it can just as easily be said that the Royal Troops should get a bonus for fighting Heretic Traitors.
I suspect it was a simple case of troops with a fairly low Sickness level taking on troops with a high sickness level. About the only troops who actually seem to get a "hidden" bonus are the Swedes when attacking.

Feb 1707 Glori du Roi now out and seems to offer more backing for the above theory since highlights of this issue for non G7 types include-

1) Swedes attempt to storm a modern Russian fortress guarding route to St Petersburg in mid winter and their general is killed by one of the first shots from the defending artillery. These fanatics still take the the fortress at the charge using ladders!!!

General theory in G7 is that for the Czar to defeat the Swedes in a stand up battle he needs odds of 10-1, fieldworks and for the Swedes be about sickness level 6, out of supply, low on Gunpowder and for their horses to have the glanders. Even then its going to take a lot of vodka to get him to face these nutters.

2) Meanwhile Big Lou is still heading back to Paris with the main French Army moaning to him about the cold and sickness in the ranks. Their morale probably not helped by their general abandoning them on the road to bugger of to a warm fire and a hot mistress back in Paris.

The Austrians seem equally frozen but their Moldavian Allies seem to be keeping warm by burning down Chateaux.....come home to a real fire buy a Chateaux in the Loire Valley! Moldavian sickness levels blamed on too much rich food but it could also be due to drinking looted French Brandy for breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper drunken

The Spanish also seem to have buggered off to the Pub......actually their officers seem to have gone to balls but unlike the French they did at least see their lads into winter quarters and dump a load of cash on various Inn Keepers, Merchants and Cobblers - The King of Spains Silver? That will do nicely.

3) While big Lou lead's his wet and pukeing main army back to Paris saying nasty things about the lack of fighting spirit in modern frog officers his even more gutless son the Grand Dauphin has set a new low by abandoning the city of Joan of Arc and running away from a Austrian force half the side of his own!

Me thinks that this is not going to look good at the Peace talks - with the Allies taking the main crossing points on the Loire and laying waste to the rest of the valley this effectively cuts France in half. Faced with tricky problems like that to explain the French would seem to need a diplonatic giant like Roger Martel at the peace talks now due in April.

4) Roger Martel AKA Rodrigo Martello AKA Roger I of England (if if Mums Wedding Cert is believed) latest coup is to get the Spanish to give him and his merry crew control of Porto Rico and perhaps Hispaniola & Tortuga as well. Sadly however the days of dealing with nice reasonable people like the Asante and the Spanish now seem to have been replaced by having to deal with the Papacy and the French Pirate Chiefs of Tortuga & Western Hispaniola.

To add to Rogers problems that infamous Pirate Blackbeard has killed one of his captains and stolen one of his best ships. Is this the start of a final war between the hardline pirates and the the ex smugglers turned fully paid up members of the Havanna chamber of commerce? pirat

5) Meanwhile back in the dear old home islands good King William has been forced to abdicate from the English Throne & has been exiled to Scotland......poor Billy! Sad

The Scots government have rejected the proposal to unite the governments of England and Scotland and will William now resting his royal behind in Edinburgh while James III does the same in London the Union of the Crowns has ended as well.

One wonders who now the Irish Crown? A Catholic majority in the country probably favours James but its the Protestants who own all the land and control the Irish Army & Parliament.

Thousands of English Protestants now seem to be following William into exile but oddly not to Scotland. Most seem to be heading for a new life in the American colonies.

6) In Italy the Jusuits see to be doing Church things (when are they going to try and convert the Czar to the true faith?) while the Doge of Genoa has finally finished the canal from the port of Genoa to the river Po and the Milanese. No doubt the HWIC, the Asiento and the manufacturers of Milan will soon be going on about Piracy, yellow fever and Genoan harbour dues. But if times are so hard for these poor merchants how come they all dress in silk and carry silver topped canes????

7) In Persia the rebuilding of the Persian Army into a force to overawe the Russians, Ottomans, Afghans and Hindu Princes continues. On paper the Shah's new infantry units equiped with Hapsburg Muskets, lead by trained officers and filled with high quality fighting men from the Indian Shia community are most impressive. Its just a pity the officers and men speak a different lingo!


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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:42 pm

Well thank you Stuart, your broad brush is a welcome review of all things G7. I for one would be very interested as to how we all missed the Scottish question and that of Ireland. So from your previous posts would it be reasonable for England (Williamite at the time I think) to attack Spain for destroying a piratical menace (half-owned by France) at Dublin?

And what happened to the Spanish cargoes of ships impounded as part of that attack? Surely the Spanish lost honour either for attacking Rene's ships or for suffering the embarrassing interruption of the build-up to attacking France?

But for all that I am glad England seems to be in fair economic health and can get on with repairing the country. I expect an exodus of protestants and people suffering from the effects of factional in-fighting or just the mob rule is to be expected and possibly welcomed by the Jacobites: a neat bit of social engineering.

As for the claim of Rodrigo/Roger I seem to recall that it was not he who claimed to be descended from a previous king (James??) and a French court lady but it was put about by France or Spain. Either way it cannot surely be a serious claim. No, with England under James; Scotland under William has an interesting ring to it.

But what of the peace conference? The French are really up against it on land but they do have a big and well seasoned navy (i'm suprised that this has not been brought to bear on the Empire and Spain). What will happen to that at the conference.

But it is Sweden and Russia that seems to be the match of the moment. You are correct stating the Swedes are mad for it and I'll be watching the Tsar's response with interest.

That and Japan's banditry.......




Last edited by Regor on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : it was rubbishly written)

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:02 pm

Hi Regor,

Ref your last post.....depends what you mean by "reasonable" I am sure its possible for the English Press to make anything look semi "reasonable" but I am not sure why the English would want to attack Spain sortly after publically signing a non aggression treaty with Spain?

If the English are going to go to war with anyone for ignoreing English rights my money would be on a Anglo-Dutch war after the Dutch attempted to burn the port of Southampton to the ground.

Mind you with dashing Dutch fireship attacks and heroic protestant fighters in Dutch Service defeating odds of 3-1 will King James & his ministers be willing to risk it? Will the Dutch give them a choice??

Who currently sits on the thrones of England & Scotland now looks decided but the jury is still out on Ireland and I doubt if either side are really happy to see the Union of the Crowns ended in the way it has been.

As for tens of thousands of Puritans and others wishing to leave the country rather than live under a Jacobite my feeling is that if they sail off and settle in the America's the Jacobites can live with this but will they really want the ranks of Dutch & Scots Regiments being filled with embittered English exiles?

As for Roger I think he claimed to be a son of Charles II of England born when the King was in exile. Nothing special about this I hear you say since Charles II had loads of "Natural" children. Then some kind "Friend" dug up a Flanders marriage cert! Since its a Catholic cert it has no effect on Williams claim but in theory its now a better claim that James III. Too date Roger has not pushed his claim since he does not wish to go the same way as Uncle James.

Ref the Yorktown talks - unless a new fire breathing French Minister steps in (any volunteers out there?) I think we will see a peace agreement which gives Franche-Comte back to the Empire.

The problem for any new Franch government is effectively twofold:

1) France has spent the last 7 years building up its Navy & Colonial position too the point were it outnumbers any three other fleets ie English, Dutch & A N other plus can win any colonial war in North America, Africa or India.

This resulted in a relative neglect of the French Military in Europe compared to say Austria which has no colonies and who's Navy is three galley's and a couple of clerks.

A new French Government probably has to have a long think about its priorities. Yes it can match the English but at what cost?

2) The other problem is Spain - the prior French Government took the view that dynastic politics did not matter and ignored and upset the Spanish Bourbon faction to the point were they all ripped down their Lilly Banners and accepted invites to the Crowning of Charles Von Hapsburg. Unlike his Dad Charles has a Navy but the key point is that by adding the revamped and re-equiped Spanish Army to the Hapsburg battleline French Military domination of Westetrn Europe went. Unless the French are willing to start mass drafts from the Navy into the Army.

All in all its going to be a tricky balancing act for the next French Govt.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:00 pm

Stuart, thank you for the clarification and a Happy Easter to you and all the forums users! A couple of thoughts though....

a) Its weird to think that the Merchants claim is better than the nobles... Cant see that flying.

b) I agree about England - its still a mess but a less explosive one at the present time and no I cant see them fighting the Dutch tho' they did attack Spain for doing the exact same thing but in a port they DONT own!

c) I like to see France re-constituted as a natural bulwark against the Empire and England so perhaps we should all hope for a swift settlement and a new French (re-vitalised) administration - one with a 5 or 10 year plan.

d) Didn't this game start with two players per main position - I recall the Petit Dauphin was in charge of the French Colonies but he annoyed TRKL and dropped out in 1703 (??). The English had the HEIC and the Dutch the DEIC but what did Spain start with (if you know??)? But that is mere history.

e) So a lot now depends the Peace Conference... (bloody silly place to hold it though!)

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:04 am

Hi Regor
The Spanish started out with a Hapsburg and Bourbon faction - Cardinal Portocarrero Hapsburg, Count Monterrey Bourbon, or at least I think they were. It could have been a major political/diplomatic clash but there was very little effort put in by the French in the end. Europes shape could be quite different today if they had of bothered. Charles Hapsburg courted a Milanese wife to get the Milanese support and used diplomatic activity to get the Neopolitan's on the Hapsburg side as well as Flanders. He travelled to Madrid and Cardinal Portocarrero took the political initiative in Spain.
France's main failure in the past conflict was diplomatic. Whilst England may now be pro French, only after the French conquered the place, on the continent they only achieved long term distant allies like the Russians, and let down closer allies such as Prussia and Saxony which would have neutralised Austria. If the Russians had of managed to invade Hungary as they intended it could have brought Austrian armies back to the Danube, and whilst the concept brought a fair degree of terror to Vienna I couldnt see how they could easily have done it without going through Poland or Moldavia and I had my hussars waiting for them.
France did the worst sort of thing he could have done in the Empire. He encouraged Prussia and Saxony to leave the Empire and when they took steps to do so, he abandoned them against an Imperial counter move. Bavaria which should have been a naturel French ally turned against France due to the tone of diplomatic engagement from Paris. The French diplomatic style was one of they could go it alone, they were right in all things, and they would win come what may. When the brutal reality arrived that France was starting to lose the war it proved too much for that player.
I mean no offence to anyone with my commentary, in particular as the previous French player is no longer here, nor any offence to him as he is not in the forum anymore. Perhaps the commentary was even unecessary, but it flowed from the discussion of a Hapsburg/Bourbon Spain and the results of that settlement which have shaped game 7.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:13 pm

Regor wrote:Stuart, thank you for the clarification and a Happy Easter to you and all the forums users! A couple of thoughts though....

a) Its weird to think that the Merchants claim is better than the nobles... Cant see that flying.

b) I agree about England - its still a mess but a less explosive one at the present time and no I cant see them fighting the Dutch tho' they did attack Spain for doing the exact same thing but in a port they DONT own!

c) I like to see France re-constituted as a natural bulwark against the Empire and England so perhaps we should all hope for a swift settlement and a new French (re-vitalised) administration - one with a 5 or 10 year plan.

d) Didn't this game start with two players per main position - I recall the Petit Dauphin was in charge of the French Colonies but he annoyed TRKL and dropped out in 1703 (??). The English had the HEIC and the Dutch the DEIC but what did Spain start with (if you know??)? But that is mere history.

e) So a lot now depends the Peace Conference... (bloody silly place to hold it though!)



Seems we have an agreement........Yorktown is a bloody stupid place to hold peace talks, Martel's claim to the senior Stuart claim to the throne based on what Charles II did or did not promise/do in his younger "wild oats" days is as dodgy as some of the HWIC price promises. And Regor is going to run the French Govt once the French Foreign Minister has made peace with the Hapsburg's & the Dutch and can be blamed for anything the new Govt does not like.

Suspect you will end up with the World's top Navy, An improved colonial position and a really, really impresive inferstructure. Army/Court morale may however need some work on it since by common agreement Louis XIV is an old git of the 1st order and his heir is coward and probably the worst general in Europe. Not sure about the economic position it was very good but that was before the French Merchant Marine took a kicking and street battles in Lyon etc.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:47 pm

I wonder if you could take the French colonies on as sort of Petit Dauphin Mk2? Who could you prop up for that???? Oh the options, the carnage, the court dress and manners. king
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Jason on Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:36 am

not sure we'll find a queue of volunteers Wink

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:59 pm

Think the problem with secondary French positions like the colonial office, French Protestants and the Corsairs is that they are too small and totally dominated by the main French position.

Having multi active players can be an advantage for the Ottomans, Poles, The HRE even the British & Dutch can benefit but it never seems to work out for France. Unless you consider the Jacobites to be a 2nd French position?

About the only position which seems to be a "natural" ally of the French and large enough to be of use to it is Bourbon Spain. But so get back to 1700 in G7 would require a full scale French Invasion of Spain to put Anjou on the throne.

Now that is what I call a military challenge for Regor!

PS Ref Regor earlier post Spain started in 1700 with a Bourbon and a Hapsburg faction.....with both players holding roughly equal influence on the Royal Council and able to give orders to the same troops etc. They also had a dieing King and the clock ticking on having to come up with a diplomatic agreement to save the Spanish Empire or fight a civil war.

In the event the RKL upset the Bourbons and the Emperor plus the Spanish Hapsburgs convinced the Spanish Bourbons to crown Charles von Hapsburg as King of Spain.

The Spanish Bourbon player played on for a while planning a conquest of Portugal but RKL vetoed that and the player dropped out. Which left Spain being run in isolation by the original Spanish Habsburg player but with all of the old Bourbon faction still in place only now more anti French than the original Hapsburg faction NPCs!

Result England now has a unpopular Jacobite King imposed by French Military Might while Spain has a popular Hapsburg King crowned with the total agreement of the Spanish Nobility while the French Military did nothing. Some people think this may have been a slight diplomatic error by the French.

Not sure if it would benefit France but the true split should probably be between Anjou & the Army (who view the Habsburgs as foe No1) & the Navy & Trade Ministers who view the Anglo-Dutch as the great rivals.




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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:45 pm

March 1707 Gloire du Roi (G7) has shown up and it seems that round XXXIV of the Hapsburg V Bourbon conflict is now over bar the shouting. In the last month of conflict before the cease fire takes effect:

1) The French Navy with crews made up with press ganged English Sailors finally left Southampton to contest the sea's with the Dutch etc. Only to find the Dutch had gone home and the etc were in the Med bombarding Marseilles.

2) The attack by the 2nd Fleet of Spain on Marailles knocked out a few Cannon and one of their Bomb Ketches scored a direct hit on a Bavarian Trade Mission but did little damage.

3) Main armies in the North all seem to have pulled apart. General feeling is that the French & Austrian main forces are worn out. The Dutch probably have other things on their mind while the forces of Flanders are still in the Pub. As for the Bavarians & other Imperialist forces they have other things on their mind and are in the Pub.

4) Oddly the Pub is in Stettin and they have Prussians on their mind rather than the siege of Belfort.

5) Further South the Spanish took Angers, the French made no attempt to recapture Orleans and the King of Spain's hired help is busy wrecking all the crossing's/routes over the Loire in between. Effectively cutting France in half.

With the War which Big Bad Lou started over a broken Dredger contract now ended here are my relections

1) At sea nothing much has changed in material terms. The French have the strongest Fleet in terms of Ships with England second but in terms of morale the English have been battered......Its no longer the English Channel, their main base in the West Indies has been lost and the French are pressing their best seamen.

2) But its not all good news at Sea for the French........their merchant marine has been slaughtered by Dutch & "Hapsburg" privateers while the pride of their own privateering fleet is now at the bottom of Dublin Harbour.
The Dutch remain a formidable foe at Sea while the Fleets of Spain are clearly building up again.

In summary a clear victory for Privateers and their investors.

3) Apart from one French operation & one Dutch operation the colonial war was a non event. I was expecting war in North America, Indea, even Africa but nothing happened !! With a huge French Army in Canada etc I was expecting something.

In summary a French victory since Kingston is a not nicer than "Devils Island"

4) On land in both England & France the war was dominated by "marching" and the grabbing of positions and soft targets rather than battles or what I would term hard sieges. In five years of conflict we have seen three battles of which two esp Staines were really nothing more than artillery dauls.

The exception and the only battle worthy of the name in the whole war the Hapsburg victory at Chalons.

Clearly war as waged by Luxemburg etc in the 1690's is still in fashion......non of this Swedish style storms with ladders etc in the West!

Its odd......France has achieved its objectives of a Jacobite restoration and splitting the Anglo-Dutch-Hapsburg alliance it has also established itself as the No1 Naval & Colonial Power but because the War ends with undefeated Allied troops on French soil and the only real battle being a Hapsburg Victory it feels like a bad French defeat.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:19 pm

Stuart as ever a really interesting appraisal my only comment would be that the war will end only when everyone stops fighting and that wont be until the peace conference ends - even then I bet some of the signatories don't fully understand what they've signed up to...

This may run and run....
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:21 am

I was suprised with the March turn to see the Swedish army march away from St Petersburg and head south. Perhaps to Moscow? You have to admire the Swedes for theur bravado!
As always, Stuarts commentary is insightful and entertaining. In part, I think the feel of a major French defeat is in the end due to the inabilty of France to defend itself. A harsh opinion of the French position at the moment is that it only has Paris, Brittany and Normandy left,nothing much south of the Loire and most of eastern France gone.
I was concerned to face a similar fate that France faced of having foreign armies racing around the countryside. One of the difficulties for the French was that armies were reaching some of their towns before fortification construction was completed and there were insufficient garrisons.
The battle of Besancon left the doorway to eastern France open for Imperial forces, and whilst King Louis won tactical victories in the area he did not achieve a strategic victory by holding the region and driving French forces across the Rhine. I was never really sure why there was not a French counter attack.
The destruction of French forces at Chalons must have been a bitter blow, but France inherently has a large population and strong economy, so recovery is possible if not probable. With the advantages that it has it should still be the dominant power in western Europe at the end of the peace talks, but hopefully will not try to again impose its wishes on all its neighbours again.
I enjoyed the war immensely and was on the edge of my seat most of the time. I believe that a reasonable peace should be possible.
And what are the Prussians up to.......
We do seem to get caught up in national archetypes, is it compulsory if you are the Prussian player to try to land grab in North Germany? Rolling Eyes

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat May 04, 2013 12:55 pm


April 1707 Gloire du Roi has now shown up and this thread would seem to be ending.

For non players in G7 here are the highlights:

1) Ragor was right Yorktown is a bloody stupid place the hold major Peace Talks.........the talks have not even started and already they have been disrupted by "Blackbeard?" cutting 10 English Merchant ships out of the harbour and shooting the place up.

In one action he humiliated the Royal Navy and the English/Colonial Governments of James III and insulted France, Spain the UDP and the Emperor by shooting at their envoys.

If a young English Swashbuckler with a fast Frigata wants to make a name for himself the hunt for Blackbeard would seem to be a good place to start

2) After carefully counting up the number of winter months the Swedes have been marching around and storming fortresses (using up all their supplies?) the Czar has finally ordered his armies to take to the open field and fight.

86 Battalions of foot, 226 Squadrons of Horse and 40 Batteries ignored the Swedish held Pushkin fortress and headed South after the Royal Army of Sweden. Pity for the Swedes that their garrison holding the Pushkin fortress (and blocking the main land route to St Petersburg) had not got the fortress artillery manned or the Czar's hordes could have not mangled as they ambled past.

Just in case the Czar has misjudged something while under the influence of Vodka......Czar Peter was not with the Army which is getting much closer to the savage Vikings than any sane man wishes to be. After all Czar Peter can replace lost serfs but lost Czars are more difficult to replace!

The Question now is will Count Horn continue with his march or turn and rip into the Russians? Guess it all depends on the Swedes Sickness level/supply position.

3) In the HRE things are oddly looking better for the Charles Vasa. After years spent wrapping themselves in the constitution of the HRE and pleading with their fellow Princes to help save the HRE from big bad Lou it seems that the Emperor, and the Reichmarshal etc have started to believe their own propaganda.

Result when the Prussians march into Stettin to pick up some unconsidered ports while the Vasa are otherwise occupied in Russia...... or to act as "The Prussian Jackel to the Russian Lion" to quote one Imperialist they have run into threats to charge them with being disturbers of the Imperial Peace and Criminal Traitors to the Reich.

Big bad Lou would have a fit at some of language being used plus the calls for an Imperial diet to sort it out.

4) Along with moaning about property rights the diet may also consider the possibility of a Custom's Union covering the Rhineland.

5) Ottomans, Persians, HWIC & the Jusuits all seem to be busy with either economic development and trying to convert the ungodly.

So basically apart from the Great Northern War and a Pirate going for a new record for "How many people can you upset with one order" not a lot going on on the surface of G7.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Sun May 05, 2013 9:43 am

The Great Northern War taking place is going to be fascinating. Are we about to have a battle of Narva with Swedes beating the Russians at manpower odds of worse than 5:1 in game 7? The problem for the Swedes is the Russians can lose lots of times, but they can only lose their manpower once. I think I might see if I can send a military observer to watch. Clearly the Swedes will have a major struggle on their hands but currently they are not having to fight the Danes, Saxony and Poland as well as the Russians, even if the Prussians have tried their hand at joining in the war. And will the Swedes use traditional Ga-Pa tactics of closing with cold steel? However, the size of Russian forces appear immense. Do we need a new thread - Sweden v Russia?
As a complete aside, anyone out there try the Darthmod of the Empire Total War? It seems to be quite good.
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:45 am

Come on folks give this interested observer a view on the Yorktown peace deal? And its funny how the forum has gone quiet.

Anyone keen to give an overview of Sweden V Russia or whats happening in Ottoman lands?

Go on......
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Basileus on Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:59 pm

A Stuart Bailey report would be best as they seem to capture the turns best of all. So I won't say anything until Stuart posts.

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:58 am

June 1707 Gloire du Roi has shown up and for non G7 players here are the highlights:

1) To the shock of many the Yorktown talks did not break down in a mass brawl and the delegates were able to obtain agreement.  Own view is that Yorktown is such a terrible colonial backwater people came to a quick agreement just to get out of the place:

A) France - Keeps its colonial gains from England, keeps Ancona and has obtained £500,000 from Austria but has had to return the Franche-Comte to the Empire, cede the disputed island of Hispaniola to Spain and has to withdraw its Army from England.

Basically the French have been pushed back from the Rhine and are left roughly even in colonies but they have managed to break the Anglo-Dutch Alliance, keep strategic bases in Italy and the West Indies and avoid Spanish/Imperial claims to Rousillon and the County of Artois.  

This is not a bad result for France and France remains the No1 Naval Power etc but its claims to European Dominance have been dented and the Emperor has shown that France while very strong is not unbeatable.  

B) The Emperor - Has regained Franche-Comte and pushed the French back from the Rhine.  A Key gain which allows him to shield Lorraine, Baden, Bavaria, Liege-Cologne, Flanders etc from French bullying and re-establishes Imperial Authority in the Western Part of the Empire.  

The loss of his English Alliance is a sad blow but (unlike Louis XIV) his Allies did show up and fight.

C) Spain - Has regained control of Hispaniola which is a bit of a non gain for Madrid since the Island comes under the "Spanish Windward Isles" a Governorship controlled by Martel and his merry crew AKA the HWIC.

Of course nothing is quite as simple as it seems.... the HWIC used to be based in Kingston but after Spain declared free trade and Kingston got invaded by the French the HWIC was off to Cadiz and the Spanish Main like a rat up a drain pipe.  

The French see this as the English taking over Spanish Trade but are the HWIC leaders loyal to London (which most of them left 20 plus years ago for very good reasons........like not getting hung) or to their Spanish Wives, Plantations, Crews and membership of the Portobello Camber of Commerce?  

D) The UDP - Has gained a withdraw of French forces from England.

But what the hell does this mean ???????? Is the Stadtholder AKA King William III of England and Scotland intending to fight on against the Jacobites while France and the rest of Catholic Europe looks the other way.  Makes you wonder if James Stuart was wise to snub the idea of a Habsburg Queen.  Insults like that rankle for a long time.



Apart from Yorktown other major incidents are:

2) The Swedes have turned to fight the Russian pursuit on the edge of their on territory.....at Pskov on the Velikaya River.  Historically Pskov was the key fortress on the border of the Grand Duchy of Moscow and the Baltic States and as well as being on the river/supply line from the Swedish base at Ravel it is also at the the crossroads between Moscow, St Peterburg, Riga and Ravel.

While the decision to stand and fight at this point seems logical enough............why have the Swedes allowed the whole Russian Army to cross the river? and why are they deployed North/South?  Talk about self confident!  Oh they are only Russians so we will fight the whole lot of them on a fair field.

If it had been me the Russians would have got attacked as they crossed the river hopefully with their massed artillery etc still on the east bank.  

As for dealing with Cossack Scouting forces a) Attack them were they have no room to manover (see above) or b) Has you retire leave them lots of Vodka to plunder then attack them at night when they are pissed.

Oh hum clearly the Swedes are a lot more honourable and fair minded than I am.

3) Lot of hot hair being used at the Imperial Diet.  Flanders favours a Customs Union on the Rhine and/or free transit of goods to final destination but while the Countess Mary and the others are generally seeking closer co-operation Brandenburg-Prussia seems to be pinning it colours to the Treaty of Westphalia and the rights of a Prince to do what he wants.

Basically the Prussian view seems to be that the Treaty gives them the right to annex bits of the Empire and raid its ports if they are "annoyed" without being "told off" by the Emperor.  While the other view in the Diet is that the treaty means that you can do what you want in your own lands and in return you give up the right to meddle in other Princes of the Empire lands.

Logical solution..........Prussia, Poland, Baltic States and Hungary are outside the Empire..... they can have a war their without upsetting the Diet etc

4) Blackbeard still plundering away and feuding with his old shipmates in the HWIC.

5) Church esp the Jusuits & Army in Portugal seem to have fallen out.....again.  A lot of this may be down to the Army being anti Spanish while the International Orders like the Jusuits are not.  Essentially after the Pope made Cardinal Portocarrero Primate of Iberia some of the Generals seem to view the Church inc the Jesuits as a Spanish 5th column.

In my view is that some of the Generals are not very bright since what stops his most Catholic Majesty from pushing his claims to Portugal A) The Grief he would get from the Church or B) The Army of Portugal?

It also dates back to the Famine in Portugal.......while the Church worked really hard to bring relief to the Poor the Generals treated it as a law and order problem and had the Guard Cavalry ride down starveing men, women and children.

Interesting while King Pedro may be dominated by the Generals the Crown Prince of Portugal spends most of his time at the Spanish Court writing poetry.  In a power struggle between tough and brutal Portugese Generals and a Shy, kind and soft Poet Prince........who has support of Church and the Queen of Spain....... who wins?

Possible concern here is that the heir to the Throne of Castile, Aragon etc is currently Donna Isabella Hapsburg if the Prince were to marry her and she does not have a brother in the future their Children would be heir to all the Iberian Kingdoms.  This idea is alarming to some in Portugal but less so to the Iberian Church.

6) Things do seem to be happening in Persia and Ottoman Lands........mostly to do with Roads, Banks and Canals.  The Moldavians do seem to try and interest the Sultan and the rest of the Ottoman Empire in what is happening beond their borders but without much luck so far.  One gets the feeling that the Hopsdar spends his time watching the build up of Russian and Hapsburg power then looking over his shoulder and saying "Boss, Boss, please wake up and have a look at this."


Last edited by Stuart Bailey on Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Post by Regor on Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:46 am

Stuart, as ever its a pleasure to read your synopsis of the game. Brilliant. Thank you. Shocked 

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Re: France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

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