G7 - The War of the English Succession & the breaking of the Pirate Brotherhood

Russia is willing to send Naval missions to anyone who wants to sink their Navy. The benefits are many:-

1) It will allow a rebuild of the navy using all the new naval advances that have been researched.
2) Save money on April expenditure round.
3) Get rid of annoying Admirals
4) Increase economic growth due to investment in Shipbuilding.
5) Help increase arable farm land available for crop growth, due to woodland clearance scheme for new building materials.
6) Allow for the installation of Vodka barrels in all ships holds

any sighting of game 7 turn yet?

Turn out

June 1711 Gloire du Roi has shown up and for non G7 players here is the major highlight:

1) In a triumph for Jusuit Order diplomacy........a escorted Spanish Transport fleet showed up at Great Yarmouth flying the flag of the Order as a sign that they had come to collect a Spanish Field Army which was also flying the same flag.

The Henry Borrett Mayor of Great Yarmouth and English Naval officers happily accepted gifts of Wine & 600 French POWs in part exchange for the Spanish Sailors freed last month.

After months of careful Diplomacy by the Papal Curia aimed at calming down Hapsburg's irrate over the murder of Prince Eugine was this the first step to peace in Europe and as a side effect making the Catholic James Stuart hold on the English throne a bit more s ecure?

In a word NO !! Since in one of the most underhand and down right nasty backstabs seen in any game of Glori 92 French Ships of the Line showed up at Great Yarmouth accepted a case of very fine wine & a silver wine cooler........then openned fire on the Jesuit flagged ships:twisted:

France would now seem to be fighting a war to "enforce Papal Authority" by a) Attacking Jesuit flagged ships & sinking Papal Peace proposals b) Trying to get the Ottomans to attack Christain powers & c) Backing a Hungarian Rebel who forces are provided by a Heretic & Schematic Czar who has in the past threatened to burn down Rome.

Oddly due to the French wanting to fight at long range (outside of carronade range) and having a problem with rolling the Spanish got away without a Ship lost & the land troops did not board the Transports so they suffered no losses. But this does little to calm down outraged & hurt feelings in Madrid.

Speaking as the backstabbed Spanish Player who has attempted to role play this position as the soft an cuddly one (unlike some other positions) .....hell by main characters include a elderly cleric, the Queen......a young mother of 4, a couple of mature ladies and a fashion victim. Anyone got any Clue as to the best way to react? so far options seem to include:

- Have Gabriel del Montosa burst into a flood of tears in Paris and attempt to grab the morale high ground?

or

- Have Charles Von Hapsburg channel his inner Wallenstein and get all 30 years war on France? To the great joy of Jason Flower who thinks my "nice Guy character" will never take the strain and its merely a matter of time before towns start to burn. Mind you I am not sure if "Great Yarmouth Quarter" has quite the right ring?

Ps I should probably add a few other things happened as well as Great Yarmouth in June 1711 inc:

1) Austrian siege of Orleans failed to make much progress due to lack of Siege Guns and a attempted raid by 30,000 French Horse on their siege lines. French were driven off by combined action of awake Austrain Hussars, foot & artillery but Graf Von Mercy was naturally distracted from Siege.

2) Other French forces engaged Gibraltar and knocked out fortress cannon, raided the Western Scheldt river which they blocked, probed Utrecht & Amsterdam and made a dashing raid on Mexico City. In this last raid General de Subercase was shot dead and the Rancheros (Irregular Cavalry types who generally spend their time guarding cattle from Apache raiders and the like) seem to be gathering in the hills.............Its a long way back to the Coast!

3) Russians continued their campaign of terror aimed at winning support for James by marching into Salisbury.......tied a local Republican to a cannon and then "blew him away" for not respecting the divine right of Kings. Salisbury has returned to rule of King James with its free born Englishmen cowering in their homes in terror of Jacobite Russian troops.

4) Some troop movements in Scotland but no real action.

5) Cavalry fighting in southern France between rival patrols with Spanish Patrols now in control of Roussilon and French Patrols in control of Languedoc.

5) Westminster Abbey has been made a Catholic Place of Worship. While over in St Paul King James lapdog Anglican (?) Archbishop of Canterbury attacked the King of Spain and Calvinists while also praising King James & Peace Makers. No doubt this particular surmon was written before his Masters French Master decided to blow the peace agreement out of the water.

6) English Navy failed to relieve Marines in Trieste (they had already surrendered).....so Bombarded the place instead. Other English Marines also attempted to spike fortress cannon and lower boom at Cadiz......they spiked some cannon but in the end were routed with heavy losses.

7) Russia and Poland agree to lower tarrifs while Ottoman Anatolia & Spain are understood to be considering trade talks. If doorman at the Porte ever allows the Ottoman Trade Minister to see anyone or passes on any letters.

Not much to report from point's East apart from long anti French statement by Shah of Persia

Go for the 30 year war option. Its not real people, just a game.

Ahhhhhh. Poor Stuart, I realise how hard it will be for you not to nail the French ambassador to door by his ears. I admit you were also the inspiration for the Russian crime prevention methods in Salisbury, the re-offending rate is extremely low, I was going to have him tied between two giant tortoises & let him be torn apart-Slowly, so he really got of very lightly.

J Flower wrote:Ahhhhhh. Poor Stuart, I realise how hard it will be for you not to nail the French ambassador to door by his ears. I admit you were also the inspiration for the Russian crime prevention methods in Salisbury, the re-offending rate is extremely low, I was going to have him tied between two giant tortoises & let him be torn apart-Slowly, so he really got of very lightly.

Unable to nail French Ambassador to a door by his ears................no French Ambassador & the Queen of Spain would get upset if we put dents in her tropical hardwood doors and ruined their varnish.

G7 Spain will continue to act in a honourable manner & follow the laws of War circa 1700 but if a certain French Admiral is found face down in a dock at some stage.............well clearly its divine revenge for shooting at the papal flag.

I can send a gift of two Giant tortoise to Madrid if it will help you deal with the French Admiral when you catch up with him

it seems French treachery may have determined Stuarts position in regard to being Mr Nice Guy or doing what comes natural!

Maybe a gift of a packet of six inch nails & a hammer is a good idea, sure Madrid has a few church doors that French ambassadors can be nailed to by their ears.

July 1711 Gloire du Roi is out and for non players in G7 here are the highlights:

1) Major Battle at Vennecy between French Army of the Jura lead by Villars and the Austrian Army of the Northorn Circles lead by Graf Von Mercy. Villars sent 150 Squadrons of Horse under the Duc of Anjou south of Loire to stop the Austrians retreating south and holding the river line against him (which would be in line with classic Hapsburg tactics developed against the Turks) then advanced on the Siege of Orleans only to run headlong into the Austrian covering force which was moving on Loury thinking the French were far fewer than they actually were.

- The battle was fought in narrow gaps between very close terrain which caused confusion, kept the Cavalry out the battle and also stopped French from using their superior numbers (French had to deploy in six lines). After Austrian Infantry over-run French Artillery and routed his first two lines Villiars decided that terrain did not favour his Army and ordered a retreat.

- Von Mercy did not purse fearing a trap in the close terrain and happy to secure the captured Guns of 40 French batteries. He was probably not so happy when he found that the force he had left to capture Orleans had made zero progress. Apart from dropping more mortar on the city to little effect.

2) King James of England married Lady Catherine Seymour at the now Catholic Westminster Abbey. Oddly his majesties subjects toasted the happy couple in Spanish Wine..........clear evidence in the improvement made in Spanish Vintages in recent years! Or perhaps evidence that the French Wine Industry is suffering due to all the armies in the Loire Valley. With taste for Spanish wine developed in England by all the free samples given out wine merchants would really like war to end.

3) Various troop movements in Scotland but no actual action. General Strathallan has been appointed Commander in Chief of all forces in Edinburgh while a English Jacobite Army of 30 Battalions of Foot and 28 Squadrons of horse and 10 artillery batteries is now North East of Edinburgh and offering battle to 21 Scots Squadrons who have them under observation.

Is a battle to decide the future of Scotland about to start????

3) Various Troop and Naval movements in low countries but again very little action apart from long range artillery fire from Dutch Shore batteries and lineships trying to keep French cruisers away from dredgers trying to clear the Texel. Oddly the English Ships who were off the Dutch Coast have fallen back to Calais rather than England to re-fit.......probably less likely to desert in France?

- Dutch making sure that Spanish POWs returned from England are getting supplies of food, drink, clean clothes etc but are also keeping them strictly seperate from public due to fears of disease.....the Spanish having picked up cases of Goal fever in English captivity.

4) As expected in Paris Gabriel Montosa confirmed exchange of General Bretonniere porale for that of Comandante Juan Diaz then burst into tears of frustration over the brutal betrayal by the French of the Jesuit plan for a Spanish withdraw from England at Great Yarmouth.

- Also as expected the French Navy put out a long public self justification saying that the Jesuit flagged ships could have been Dutch Flying a false flag. Oddly not many Dutch Fleets include 100 Gunners and have Jesuit Priests on board or give the French Navy gifts of Spanish Wine etc while the English seemed to have no problem at all spotting the difference between the actual Jesuit organized withdraw and a cunning Dutch plot to invade England under false flags.

- The King of Spain and his envoys in various places launched bitter attacks on "the treacherous nature of Louis XIV" following that attack at Great Yarmouth. To say they are upset is probably a understatement since the Spanish have started to end letters with "Victory or Death".

- The Vicar-General hopes that King Louis XIV will show regret for shooting at the Jesuit Flag and hopes the parties will not give way to reciminations............the words "no hope" spring to mind. Apart from wishing he would not invade their Scots allies and wishing he was not so pro Ottoman and pro French the Hapsburg's do not have a problem with James III (unlike Scots & Dutch) they also have no problem with Russia but Franco-Hapsburg relations are at a all time low.

5) Russian-Dutch relations seem to be as confused as normal with a Dutch Envoy appointed to Moscow & New York joining the Russian protectorate the same month as Russians impound various Dutch Ships (and arrest a man with a Monkey for spying). One wonders if the fact that Dutch orders arrive in America quicker than Russian ones is one reason for the problem?

6) In the Holy Roman Empire the Prussians are looking for allies inc a wedding alliance with a Catholic Bishop - the mind boggles but I guess he could always have a "neice". Meanwhile the Elector of Bavaria wants his kids back from school in Austria and wants to know what the Emperor's war aims are. This seems to miss the point that France declared war on the Hapsburg's and the King of England murdered a Austrian Envoy.

7) In the America's the French have probed Portobello & Fort Saint Louis and occupied Puebla. They also attempt to recruit Rancharos into the French Army. The Spanish took the "gift" but oddly allowed the French to ride back to their camp with their heir still on.

In the Ottoman Empire the English have been pushing trade relations in Alexandria, the Hopsdar of Modavia has fallen out with his doctor who has gone to Constantinople. Hope Dr Timoni can get a hearing which would be more than the Greek head of the Spanish Trade Mission can do. Seems at the moment that Moldavians have close links with Russia, Rumelia with Spain/Naples & the Mamlukes with the English but the Anatolians trade Vizier talks to no one.

Ref report for non players of July 1711 Glori du Roi critics have pointed out I have missed lots of important (?) diplomatic stuff going on in the Baltic with the Tsar having a tea (?? what no Vodka?) party in Moscow and having his envoy thrown out of Stockholm.  Place of the nasty schmatic at the Court of Charles Vasa "Protestant Hero of the North" was taken by a Protestant from Prussia looking to marry off the King to a nice Prussian Girl.

OK.....I missed it and no doubt in some games this would be front page news.  But in G7 Russia and Sweden throw each others envoys out as a hobby.  Then the Czar and the King get bored with having no one to shout at and allow them back in.

However, I future I promise my loyal readers that I will not ignore Prussian marriage policy or the strange and crazy world of the Russian Diplomatic Service.  However, it should be said that not even the Czar understands the logic of his diplomatic service.....why exactly did they give £27M and invade Scotland for rebel colonies in North America?  And why build St Petersburg as a gift for Charles Vasa and the Swedish Navy?

Has the Czar taken up tea so in future he can do his own diplomacy and not sign things when in a Vodka Haze? Or are now seeing dry July?

turn out .....

August 1711 issue of the Gloire du Roi is now out and the first three pages were devoted to a very large and complex battle which may be of interest to players considering a military campaign and Scots   .  Sadly no Lancer V Sword so it adds nothing to that particular issue but other debates got a bit of action.

July 1711 had ended with the Jacobite Army outside Edinburgh under observation by Scots Dragoons & seeming to be offering battle.  This challenge was taken up the the Confederate Forces but the Jacobites elected to leave their camp fires burning and march off under cover of night to try and take Glasgow by coup de main (surprise night attack).

The Jacobite ploy gained them a days march and the opportunity to attack but did not gain them the element of surprise as the Scots Dragoons were able to warn Glasgow and put the pursuit on the right road.  Too be fair to the Jacobites trying to avoid oberservation in these circumstances is very hard.  What some players may attempt to foil hostile scouts is march behind a screen of Lt Cavalry/Infantry detailed to attack/skirmish with hostile Scouts.  Probably not going to stop reports of your approach but it may & I stress MAY cut down on exact details getting out.

To attack Glasgow the Jacobites split into 4 attack columns of roughly equal strength with orders to attack from different directions in order to confuse the defence.  Basically this tactic gives more chances to storm a target and is of particular value against small garrisons with one or more attacks finding weakly held or even a undefended sector to attack.  But it also gives a much higher chance of some of the attackers getting lost, misunderstanding orders and weakening the overall attack.  With the chances of finding a undefended entry and messing up greatly enhanced if its a night attack.  In our period what the Jacobites attempted was only considered by the boldest (or most rash) Generals & Troops and if you try it and it works you had better make free with the medals, Knighthoods and bonus payments or Richard will probably dock a honour point for you being tight fisted.  Plus your troops will probably run wild and sack the place (or is that a problem linked to Ottomans and/or Stuart Bailey?).

Ref the attack on Glasgow the Jacobite North Column ended up tangled up with loch's and the hostile Scots Dragoons (Moss Troopers?) and never pushed home its attack.  The Eastern column with the easy direct approach and with the Scots Dragoons distracted by the Northern Column pushed home its attack with great valour.....perhaps because the Scots Jacobite Major General Richard Hamilton was with this force (perhaps he knew the Way?).  However, this attack got stuck on a stockade defended by Scots Infantry with muskets and cannon fire who could not be moved.  Note advantage of getting your Engineers to knock up some defences even if you do not have time to build a fortress.

The two southern columns merged in the dark and got delayed meaning they were not in position to attack before day light.  No doubt feeling just a bit put out with idiot officers who can not read a map and march you into bogs (been there, done that.....with a Tank) these columns took one look at the massed ranks of 14,000 dug in English-American Orange Order foot plus cannon deployed with their flanks on stockades and decided not to bother.  Looks like the Engineers did too good a job since the Confederates probably really wanted the Jacobites too attack and get stuck, since in other parts of the battlefield the relief was starting to show up.

Behind the embattled Eastern Column the 42 Squadron Edinburgh Brigade of Horse lead by Major General Richard Savage (a Englishman....but what his troops are dont have a clue) showed up and charged to pin the Eastern Column in position.  A Cavalry Charge into the rear of already engaged troops seems good to me but this time the charge wilted away due to Jacobite Rocket Batteries.  Which however had far less effect on the advanceing Dutch foot under Veldmaarschalk Hendrik van Nassau-Ouwerkerk himself.

Faced with being ground to bits between the stockade and the Dutch. Major General Hamilton now personally as in at front of the charge lead his Highlanders in a wild highland charge directly at the Dutch.........and got himself and the Highlanders gunned down by rapid platoon  fire.  But before anyone start's to proclaim the total victory of fire over shock action its probably fair to say the highlanders had already been in action and were outnumbered and outflanked.

The Highland charge also allowed the English Jacobites to slip away south rather than support the brave and heroic Highlanders and Bonny Hamilton .....a no doubt very sensible action but probably not one to convince more Scots to die for James Stuart.

When not defeating mad Highlanders and muttering evil thoughts about his Cavalry which failed to stop the rest of the Eastern colums getting away Nassau-Ouwerkerk asked the Count of Gerona if he would be so kind as to do something about the Northern Jacobite column.

Rather than following the Dutch style rapid advance into a hail of Jacobite Artillery and rockets the Count of Gerona elected to go for counter battery fire first.  Interestingly the Jacobite rockets which had proved of great effect in stopping mounted attacks, limited use against good foot proved to be a total waste of time in a artillery fight.  The fact that the Spanish Gunners used shrapnel case shot may also have helped them silence the English Artillery.  After getting rid of the annoying rockets etc the Spanish turned their cannon on the rest of the Northern column which seems not to include wild Highland types wanting to dash at the Spanish and give them a taste of cold Claymore.  And the North column retreated harried but not really closed upon by the Scots Dragoons.

This retreat may have been more "interesting" if Gerona own Regiments of Horse had been with him to take advantage but they seem to have spent campaign to date on holiday in Norfolk and trying a failing to catch a ferry.  Reports however, do indicate that they are now trying to leave England by land (and its probably not Wales or Cornwall).

Thus the first phase of the battle ended with Scots Confederates & allies still holding Glasgow and most of the Jacobites to the south of the city apart from the Northern Column which seems badly seperated as well as knocked about.

Will be very interesting to see what happens next esp as what may be a large English Reinforcement of 35 Marchant ships (carrying what? Troop Transports or even Prizes?) have shown up at Ayr.  Where they and their 8 escorts have run into 32 Dutch Warships. If these are troop transports carrying horses and the like and Dutch Warships can get past the escorts and get into the Transports Santa Cruz willingness to risk deep fried haggis rather than risk the French Navy could get tested.

Ref G7 it was nice while it lasted it

2nd on honour list to the Hopsdar of Moldavia who spends his time talking about Orthodox Religious matters, cattle breeding and marrying into the Russian Royal House while remaining a loyal vassal of the Sultan.

While my rivals burn babies in Edinburgh, execute Women in the West Indies & Yorkshire, murder Kings & Christain Hero's, blow people from cannon, and make treacherous attacks on Jesuit Flags. So after years of my characters being type caste and reported by Agema as.......well shall we say if this was a Western by character would be the one with the black hat.........Its finally clear that my character is the "Good Guy".

It lasted a grand total of a month before the strain proved too much for Agema

- A small raid on New Orleans seems to have captured Garrison but then runs into 2nd larger force which Spanish were not aware off. With no orders does my idiot half Irish commander (who is not a Rumelian!) a) Surrender to larger force.......and get exchanged in due couse b) Run away or c) Slaughter his POW's and fight the new force? Aghhhh lucky the French will probably save me the trouble of a court Marshal for Blake De-Vega.

- Trying to stress the honourable and historic nature of my Army.......they have orders to a) Ban free plunder & give payments for supplies taken from Civilians b) They will however levy "contributions" from towns ......but with a receipt! c) They do not destroy private property but since the French Army makes such extensive use of the French Canals/Barges to move troops and supplies Spanish consider French Barges as part of the French Navy and fair game.

But from the Paper I might as well have given the traditional "Skirmish - rape, loot & plunder" order of Rumalian Light Cavalry and Iskander " I love the smell of burning villages in the morning it smells like Victory" Kruppa
.
I dont mind a bit Agema having some fun with my orders.......but knocking off three honour points for slaughtering POWs in a massacre I never ordered seems a bit harsh!

Qu Am I now type Caste? Or just mis-understood??

Is there such a thing as Provosts for your character's army ?

I think you're just suffering bad luck.

Your troops do something you didn't direct, but the public reacts to you for it.

It isn't fair, but then that's part of the point. Honour isn't fair. It's about public perception.

Of course, ordering the immediate court martial and raving about about the dishonour of it might help rescue a point or two for you.

Thelittleemperor wrote:Is there such a thing as Provosts for your character's army ?

Most Regiments/ Battalions would probably have an NCO who acts as a Provost, the rank of Major was originally there to ensure discipline within the Battalion, however I think you may mean do you have a military police force, or Feldjager.

As far as I know you can raise units of Dragoons as Provost units & give them orders to act as a military police force, they not only look after discipline, they also help mark out the destinations of the camping place at the end of a days march.

May also be worth appointing a Provost-General to oversee things.

Don't expect them to be popular among the troops though.

Thanks for the info .Yes , elite dragoons can act as Provosts and yes I was thinking of military police . Do the Ottomans have anything similar ?

Thelittleemperor wrote:Thanks for the info .Yes , elite dragoons can act as Provosts and yes I was thinking of military police . Do the Ottomans have anything similar ?

The Sultans Janissary Corp included the Sultans Palace Gardiners.......who also doubled up as executionors and torturers.

At the siege of 1453 Constantinople and other places the Ottomans stationed men with swords and whips behind attack forces with orders to execute Cowards who ran the wrong way (Romans, Swiss/Imperial Pike and even Russians in WW2 did the same type of thing so it was not a one off).

But they were not Provots on the French and Prussian model who's main job was to stop desertions from the camp and jumping from unit to unit to claim the enlistment bounty rather the battlefield. Mostly because most Ottoman troops were not paid at all let alone Unit enlistment bounties and a lot of them were basically expected to join for the campaign and when they had gathered enough loot and eat the food they had brought with them......go home.

Ref Spanish Army in G7.......no it does not have elite dragoons to stop desertion! Because its troops are so well looked after, well paid and loyal to the King & Tercio that desertion is not a problem The problem is with over keen officer who offerer who slaughtered of POWs who were getting in way.

Looks like Charles III may have to get out the old hair shirt! (My Ottomans never had this problem........bloody Spanish too soft and sensitive by far. I blame the Queen, the Spanish Enlightenment & sending them all to Church Schools)

I do think this is a condition of G7. I always found it harder to increase honour in that game than any other, I'd do things that in other games would either not affect honour or increase it yet in G7 they seemed to cause honour to go down.

Wow !! I never knew that about the Ottomans ,that is , them not being paid . Some things are making a lot more sense now.!!

Thelittleemperor wrote:Wow !! I never knew that about the Ottomans ,that is , them not being paid . Some things are making a lot more sense now.!!

The Ottoman Empire & its Military is odd in that in that in many ways it lead the way into the "modern" world and then stopped in a sort of half way position.

Thus it was the first state to have a full time professional Infantry force equiped with fire arms in the Janissary Corp. It also had full time paid regiments of Cavalry and Artillery.

But while 300 years later the armies of Louis XIV etc were made up of fairly standard Regiments raised and trained by the state (or at least on behalf of the State) Ottoman forces ramained a mix which would not have seemed unfamiliar to the French in 1500.

In general terms Ottoman forces were made up of:

1) State Regiments - Full time professionals like the Janissary Corp & the Saphi of the Porte who are paid from State Revenue. Into this catagory also go the Royal Mamlukes of Egypt and the full time professionals employed by Provincial Governors for everything from border security (Delis), tax collection and keeping bandits under control. Note the Government in Constantinople did send Janissary Detachments to help/keep a eye of local Governors but these tended to go "Native".

- In game Richard has developed a nasty habit with the Janissary Corp of using it like a "Diet" which can turn its cooking pots upside down at the drop of a Heron Feather and start shooting ministers they dont like. Bloody Mamlukes also spend more acting as jumped up (un)Civil Servents than they ever do on campaign.

2) "Feudal Troops" mostly Saphi and their retainers who kept local law and order and who's support came not from an old style Knights feif as in Western Europe but from the right "Tamars" to collect the tax on a farm(s) or other source of revenue and keep it in return for Military Service.

- Oddly the Swedes used the same type of method with x4 farms clubbing together to supply one soldier, sometimes his horse, and his wages in War time. While the recruit lived and worked at home in peace time.

3) "Hired Troops" - Troops hired for a campaign either with actual cash or cash & promise of loot, while these could come from outside the Empire many came from inside and if not gainfully employed showed a nasty habit or raiding on both sides of the frontier. Arnauts from Albania, Greek Mountainers, Arabs and Anatolian Turkoman all had a habit of turning to bandity if not employed.

- Ottoman players who spend a lot of time on campaign dont seem to have bandit problems. But if you send a long time in your harem or have a lot of troops standing down to save money I think Richard starts to role dice.

4) "Border Raiders" - Ghazi, Akinjis etc often inspired by religion and settled on the border they only get paid in loot. By 1700 the Akinjis are a spent force but the Tartars and Barbary Corsairs are still active and can be used as Allies by a Ottoman player. They can also be a liability if someone (like the Doge of Venice) pays for slave raids to divert rivals and suddenly you have Russia, Poland and the Emperor getting all upset about a few Serfs who probably much prefer life in the Harem to some Hovel in the Ukraine.

5) "Levy" - Azabs, Levy, Pioneers, etc, etc paid if at all in loot.........handy for digging, carrying supplies, drawing water and cutting wood can also form the first waive of a storm to save the better troops. But of very limited use in a fight.


For Game playability Richard does not really bother with if troops are paid from Tax income or collect own wages and you can call them what you like they all seem to fight much the same and you pay their upkeep.....or they get nasty.

Exception is the Janissary Corp who I swear have a D6 before every campaign 1-3 In sulk, with 50% chance of Mutiney. 4-5 fight like poor quality Italian Foot on a 6 Fight like Ghazi Hero's unsakable morale.

If Army is very large you will have to pay for it all but most of its Infantry and Light Cavalry will be of dire Quality which hardly seems fair on the Ottoman player. But knowing that all your Infantry is good at is digging & most of your Cavalry esp Light Horse does force a player to act in a very Ottoman Way.

Thanks Stuart for all that time taken and info given .