Agema Publications

A forum for the disscussion of the Play by Mail games from Agema Publications


Game 10

Share

Stuart Bailey
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1334
Age : 55
Location : Somewhere East of Bristol & West of Bath
Reputation : 34
Registration date : 2012-01-29

Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:57 am

J Flower wrote:If there is ( open to debate) a new Pope, will it have much of an impact on the game? Confess I haven't played a game with an active Pope. Will it mean if Catholics want to make Cardinals/ Bishops & co. they ahve to ask his permission first, or does the Gallican church have an opt out option on that?

Will it mean a Jacobite cause needs the Popes support to make any head way.

Or will most catholic players simply ignore anything the Pope has to say & continue on regardless & let him sit & burn in Rome?

If Agema are trying a new tact to break the impasse in Spain will an Agema made solution be any easier ot swallow than a player generated one?


Oh, the joys of being a Protestant torch bearer.

In reply to the above:

1) Yes you do need the Papal OK to become a Bishop, Cardinal or perhaps more important in the game a Bishop-Prince (Catholic Elector) of the Empire. Basically the Cathedral Chapter sends a name or a couple of names of people it considers suitable and the Pope confirms (or not). With a NPC Pope this is automatic but a PC Pope may be a bit more active

- If the Papacy is going through a corrupt (sorry I mean - needs to raise cash for a Crusade or other good cause) you may have to send a payment to get confirmed in office

- The Gallican Church can only put forward names agreed by the King, it only puts forward one name and the agreement is that the Pope automatically says yes.

Also in theory the Pope has the Power to dismiss Cardinals/Bishops for gross mis-conduct if you are an existing Bishop/Cardinal in France you can only be sacked by the Pope if the King of France agrees. If we ever get a good and holy (PC) Pope who thinks that plotting to ignore Church law on marriage and inheritence in order to committ High Treason is a disgrace to the Church and comes under the heading of gross misconduct Cardinal Portocarrero is in deep trouble!

2) The Duke of Savoy probably just passes on his Jacobite House Guests to Rome with a relief and the restoration of a Catholic Monarchy becomes a Papal Problem.

3) Naturally Catholic rulers with show huge respect for his Holiness ref Spiritual matters..........and bombard him with complaints about the evils of their rivals. And if the Doge of Genoa and his latest Mistress get too frisky with Cardles when visiting Rome his Holiness is very welcome to use the Papal Palace in Avignon.

4) I suspect that if a settlement to the inheritence of Carlos II looks fair to the legitimate heirs and comes nicely wrapped up and packaged in best quality Papal Gift Paper it will make it easier for Catholic Powers to accept.

PS Protestant Torch bearers may find a Player Character and Catholic rulers being told off about their moral failure to be funny. But will they find it so funny if said Pope is a Jacobite? Cardinal Henry Stuart for a top job in the Papacy?
avatar
Jason
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1756
Age : 48
Location : Portishead, Somerset
Reputation : 21
Registration date : 2008-08-27

Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:02 pm

Stuart Bailey wrote:
2) The Duke of Savoy probably just passes on his Jacobite House Guests to Rome with a relief and the restoration of a Catholic Monarchy becomes a Papal Problem.

PS Protestant Torch bearers may find a Player Character and Catholic rulers being told off about their moral failure to be funny. But will they find it so funny if said Pope is a Jacobite? Cardinal Henry Stuart for a top job in the Papacy?

A Jacobite-backing Pope...or even a Jacobite Pope...think of the fun I'd have with that...not just speeches, I've got whole stand-up routines ready for that one...coming to an 18th C comedy club near you, Lord Melville's One Man Show "A funny thing happened on the way to the burning of Rome".
avatar
Kerensky
Freeman
Freeman

Number of posts : 14
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2018-07-16

Re: Game 10

Post by Kerensky on Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:11 pm

I suspect we are in for an interesting few months, with some top draw written submissions to our man in Rome. I suspect the form and approach in submissions to Clement will be varied & creative. I think I will hold a few balls & have a few more dalliances to pass the time, until showtime in January...
James/ Genoa
avatar
Jason
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1756
Age : 48
Location : Portishead, Somerset
Reputation : 21
Registration date : 2008-08-27

Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:26 pm

I'm just looking forward to the Christmas/New Years Eve banquets in Edinburgh...after a few whiskies who knows what Lord Melville might say about this suddenly active pope...

...well I know...obviously... Wink drunken
avatar
Basileus
Prince
Prince

Number of posts : 418
Age : 57
Location : Wales/Cornwall
Reputation : 12
Registration date : 2011-07-01

Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:08 pm

I'm not certain that the Papacy held that much sway in the eighteenth century. After the Reformation its ability to claim leadership of Christendom was shattered. Kings and Emperors were unlikely to be guided by Papal demands. The French position will be to give a Gallic shrug and to continue French foreign policy (yes I know a lot of people think there isn't a French foreign policy but there really is!). France will smile kindly at the Pope and wish him well.
avatar
Deacon
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1620
Age : 55
Location : Portland OR, USA
Reputation : 39
Registration date : 2010-04-13

Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:18 pm


In my view, the pope has a lot of soft power. The pope can squander that by overplaying his hand, but if he is thoughtful, he can influence the honour of catholic nations.

The biggest honour bump I have gotten in Game 8 as the Hispanic Emperor was winning an accolade from the Pope.

Most players are used to just giving orders as rulers and seeing them obeyed. That isn't the power of the papacy on others. If you play it that way, you will just fail. But if you praise and criticize with a real basis for your statements, players who care about their honour will heed your words, or at least play the game of pretending to.

avatar
Kerensky
Freeman
Freeman

Number of posts : 14
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2018-07-16

Re: Game 10

Post by Kerensky on Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:19 pm

I am with Deacon on this one. The Thirty Years War, and the passions that drove it are still a real memory that moulds our time. The move towards secularism is towards the middle of the century. Papal praise will boost a Catholic ruler, while a sanction will impact his standing.

Sent from Topic'it App

J Flower
King
King

Number of posts : 822
Age : 47
Location : Paderborn, Germany
Reputation : 13
Registration date : 2012-02-16

Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:50 pm

I guess we will see from actions in the coming month(s) if Pope is actually active or not. A bit like Spain when some of us were convinced a new player ahd fallen into the gap, sorry I mean taken up a worth while role in the game.

Then we will maybe see how if & when an active Papal position impacts on the game.

Can full understand view of Basileus & the Gallian Church attitude to Rome,not always being on the bes tof terms, plus historically in the not too distna tpast the Bourbon dynasty was a Protestant one, only changing sides to raise the odds of getting a bottom securely planted on the throne of France. Now a Protestant France could really make for an interesting game !

Will an Agema brokered peace in Spain actually work, or if a player is active ( proposes a peace will it have any chance of success, after the valiant efforts by Deacon in his guise of deal/ peace maker, I have some serious doubts about it all.

A Jacobite Pope could certainly prove a bit of a flipping problem, ratherer than playing the fiddle as Rome burns he will probably be too busy running for the hills to find a new hole to hide in
avatar
Jason
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1756
Age : 48
Location : Portishead, Somerset
Reputation : 21
Registration date : 2008-08-27

Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:26 pm

I'd agree with Deacon, the Pope does seem to have a lot of soft power...the problem could be that we might have a pope who is trying to be hard with it.

avatar
revvaughan
King
King

Number of posts : 701
Reputation : 7
Registration date : 2008-07-15

Re: Game 10

Post by revvaughan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:02 am

Stuart Bailey wrote:Have to admitt after reading the one page rule and time scales I assumed that the Pope is still NPC and Richard was giving things a little prod to get things moving.

At that point certain Protestant powers in G10 (you know who you are!) start to laugh themselves sick and start offering to sale fire insurance to Roman house owners and fire starter kits to visitors.


Hey wait... I resemble that remark. Actually those evil Protestant powers might well be pouring a class of brandy and sitting back to watch the bonfires.
avatar
revvaughan
King
King

Number of posts : 701
Reputation : 7
Registration date : 2008-07-15

Re: Game 10

Post by revvaughan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:05 am

Jason wrote:Surely we'd have to fill it with water, so Stuart can get involved and commit some acts of piracy...sorry privateering...at the same time

Indeed the best quote of the day I have read... I nearly choked on my coffee reading this. I give Stuart credit as the resourceful fellow would likely find a way to fill it with water himself and sortie out to deal with those that were unprepared to do with his aquatic adventures. Suspect
avatar
revvaughan
King
King

Number of posts : 701
Reputation : 7
Registration date : 2008-07-15

Re: Game 10

Post by revvaughan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:40 am

Stuart Bailey wrote:Protestant Torch bearers may find a Player Character and Catholic rulers being told off about their moral failure to be funny. But will they find it so funny if said Pope is a Jacobite? Cardinal Henry Stuart for a top job in the Papacy?

This could well be fun for me... Being a Protestant pastor (an evil Calvinist to Boot) with a certain bent for apologetics I am willing and ready to go broadside to broadside on this one. sword

SOLI DEO GLORIA

Stuart Bailey
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1334
Age : 55
Location : Somewhere East of Bristol & West of Bath
Reputation : 34
Registration date : 2012-01-29

Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:15 pm

revvaughan wrote:
Jason wrote:Surely we'd have to fill it with water, so Stuart can get involved and commit some acts of piracy...sorry privateering...at the same time

Indeed the best quote of the day I have read... I nearly choked on my coffee reading this. I give Stuart credit as the resourceful fellow would likely find a way to fill it with water himself and sortie out to deal with those that were unprepared to do with his aquatic adventures. Suspect

I would just like to point out that the French Corsair's in the West Indies had a lot of ex-soldiers in their ranks and their operations were as often on land as they were at sea. With their long range and heavy musket fire being particularly feared.

So if anyone needs a mercenary force the corsairs are happy to take on land as well as sea operations, fireworks, barbies and all good parties.

With special reduced rates for members of the Bourbon family and his Holiness.
avatar
tkolter
Lord
Lord

Number of posts : 50
Age : 51
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2018-06-15

Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:56 pm

How much would use of some units to fight slave trafficking in the Horn of Africa, mostly Ottoman shipping, in case its needed?

J Flower
King
King

Number of posts : 822
Age : 47
Location : Paderborn, Germany
Reputation : 13
Registration date : 2012-02-16

Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:13 am

May help boost your honour a thome if the slavers are taking your people, or help you diplomatically with those nations who are having people forced inot slavery.

Or you could go another way & free slaves/or keep them in bondage & use them to build up your own position & Economy

On eof the joys of the game is you won't know until you try.
avatar
tkolter
Lord
Lord

Number of posts : 50
Age : 51
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2018-06-15

Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:46 am

Both once I get a policing army force I plan to declare slavery illegal in the Empire and any slavers and their workers caught will be crucified outside the capital and well spies can work on getting payback outside the borders I have spies going in most of the major NPC positions in the Horn of Africa. Not to go after the nations by slavers who are outside the Empire's borders. So hiring ships to get them at sea is not a bad idea if things escalate. Oh and slaves who enter the Empire will be freed and can work on being subjects of the crown. Those hunting them will be treated as Slave Traffickers. But I need to be fortified and well prepared to respond to threats.

Criminals will be subject barring a capital crime, to indenturing to pay off the people they wronged with a sum of money and get one to ten years in service with some rights and a mustering out benefit an outfit of clean good clothes, a small sum of money and a papers saying they are now under good terms returned to being a subject of the realm with the forgiveness of the crime ... the first time ... after that well they are habitual criminals and well might get a longer term of servitude. It will be hoped they will work and be productive in the Empire or leave if they wish to commit a crime again. But that isn't servitude under hard bondage for life but punishment for a crime after a judgment.

The slave traffickers and their agents won't be welcome in the Empire and I hope that will spread to other nations in Africa in time.


Last edited by tkolter on Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Rozwi_Game10
King
King

Number of posts : 566
Age : 36
Location : North Yorkshire
Reputation : 8
Registration date : 2015-08-15

Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:02 pm

Changamire Dombo asked his council of chiefs what they thought about receiving Black slaves as war booty, if we joined Portugal in fighting over in Madagascar back in 1700 (this was all printed in the newspaper iirc, so not a state secret). I, personally, wasn't sure about the slavery issue against fellow Africans (I hadn't read up as much history as I have now), but was told by my chiefs that, basically, they couldn't give a toss.

I'd recommend having your (Abyssinian) character ask his advisers their thoughts on slavery and fighting the slave trade. Obviously there's an element of hypocritical practice by some European nations (historically, and, possibly, in-game) to also consider. Question: when is a slave worth saving? Answer: when they're Christian. Question: is slavery wrong? Answer: not when we (as a nation) are benefiting from it. But that is all part of the fun of the game. Working around these contradictions, and historic beliefs that differ from the modern.
avatar
tkolter
Lord
Lord

Number of posts : 50
Age : 51
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2018-06-15

Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:27 pm

I will ask the Bishop to assemble a religious council on the matter and bring in wise men and women, the final laws on this will come from them, if God says its wrong then its wrong but I want a hard decision blessed by God.

Like I noted a system will be allowed for those who have debts or commit crimes an indenturing servitude more security for freemen who have debts or who are poor and such support can help them over criminals. But lifetime bondage is the issue. But after his spies find out how they are being treated by supposedly good Christians in the Americas I have a spy going there, not saying where, it will likely tip the balance against it. So will wait until later next year to make a final decision.

If we side against it, well we will be doing so decisively openly letting the nations what treatment the good Christians nations are doing to their slaves in truth it was often far worst than under Islam which in comparison treated slaves better. Sad.

But my plans are a policy just for the Abyssinian Empire and its subjects and if your kidnapping them well the response won't be pleasant.

Stuart Bailey
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1334
Age : 55
Location : Somewhere East of Bristol & West of Bath
Reputation : 34
Registration date : 2012-01-29

Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:40 pm

It probably should be noted that most slave raids were conducted by African Kingdom's and sometimes by Arabs.

European slavers tended sail to West Africa using fairly small ships & crews and buy slaves from local suppliers such as the Asante Kingdom rather than doing much actual slave taking themselves. Partly because get a few miles inland and most European's would be lost but mostly due to the fact that this Coast is a really unhealthy area for Europeans (the White Mans grave) and Slave ships wanted to be in and out as quickly as possible.

The problem for Africa was not European slave raiders but rather that the huge demand for labour in the America's (mostly due to small pox and other European diseases killing an estimated 100M Indians in a hundred years) offered African chiefs and Kingdoms the chance to make huge profits from attacking other tribes and such Slave Wars destroyed much of West Africa. Bit like how modern demand for diamonds and metals and conflicts over these resources had made some individual very, very rich but have left DR Congo and some other African Countries poorer than other countries lacking (blood) diamonds.

So if you ever get over to the West the foe for your Noble Christian Emperor will not be European Christians but evil pagan warlords like the Asante.

In the East the its a rather more tradition foe........Islamic raiders waging Jihad and taking slaves from Christians and Pagans alive. Keeping some and flogging others in Ottoman and Indian markets. Actually Black Eunich's played a very important part in the running of the Ottoman Porte and other Islamic Courts was a really good job for your average goat herder apart from one obvious disadvantage.

If during the course of your crusade against Muslim slavers if you take captives guess you could always exchange them for Christain captives in Muslim states or give them the chance to convert?
avatar
Rozwi_Game10
King
King

Number of posts : 566
Age : 36
Location : North Yorkshire
Reputation : 8
Registration date : 2015-08-15

Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:35 am

Well... If Zanzibar needed a new source of slaves, since the usual trade routes are disrupted. And Changamire Dombo married the Princess of Togo, then offered his new father-in-law an avenue to boost Togo's slaving business. And Portugal and other's obtained their slave requirements from Rozwi markets. Rozwi's treasury might just benefit.

You go there, Abyssinia. Take on the fight against slavery. Go for the Omanis (please!)

Not that I want to sway your decisions ... and I wasn't going to mention, the above, yesterday elephant
avatar
tkolter
Lord
Lord

Number of posts : 50
Age : 51
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2018-06-15

Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:17 pm

I'll be banning slave trafficking in the Abyssinian lands at some point in the game.
avatar
Rozwi_Game10
King
King

Number of posts : 566
Age : 36
Location : North Yorkshire
Reputation : 8
Registration date : 2015-08-15

Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:09 pm

Cool. geek

I was only joking, yesterday, about the Rozwi slave markets. Its something that various people have contacted me about since 1700, but Rozwi isn't structured to run such a trade at a national level. Same as black powder weaponry; the State isn't interested.

I'm playing the whole south east Tribal African thing.

The issue of slavery has come up in Game 10's newspapers, once or twice, recently (though in the form of Christian versus Muslim efforts in the Levant area). So I'm sure that some European states would contact Abyssinia if they read a statement on your anti-slavery beliefs, and would look to forge diplomatic and working relationships between yourselves. Moghul India isn't too far away, nor Persia, and both are pretty enlightened groups of people who would enter discourse with a moderate Christian nation, I would think? I don't know what their policy on slavery is/was? But they're two other nations that are in the Abyssinian geographic area.

It'll certainly add a new topic and theme to the game, 'The Slavery Question'.

Best of luck Smile
avatar
tkolter
Lord
Lord

Number of posts : 50
Age : 51
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2018-06-15

Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:16 pm

Oh they will once my spy network in the region and abroad are in place, I did the math and long term a well placed and used spy is worth far more than an military force and far cheaper per operative.

But I'm not ignoring well armed defense with fortified cities and two planned two southern fortresses of David and Sampson one more Westerly and ones Easterly.

And I plan something else which should boost the defenses and supplement the armies nicely long term. Cool
avatar
Jason
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1756
Age : 48
Location : Portishead, Somerset
Reputation : 21
Registration date : 2008-08-27

Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:26 pm

Got to say, it is great to see another African power active Smile
avatar
Deacon
Emperor
Emperor

Number of posts : 1620
Age : 55
Location : Portland OR, USA
Reputation : 39
Registration date : 2010-04-13

Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:34 am


I think a lot of european powers would agree that trading christian slaves is completely and totally out.

Those dark pagans out of africa however...


Sponsored content

Re: Game 10

Post by Sponsored content


    Current date/time is Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:12 am