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Game 10

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J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:29 pm

So, just to be clear al Navy could round up Privateers of another Nation if they were at work against merchant shipping, it may cause a bit of a diplomatic stink, but wouldn't count as an act of war, because officially the Priviteers are acting without the 100% consent of their home government. A case of if they get caught then its there own fault & nothing to do with the home nation of the privateers?

almost a warlike act but not quite!
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Deacon
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm


That is my understanding. If a privateer is taking prizes and nobody anywhere has declared war, any naval officer is going to justly presume they're pirate, I think.

If after an engagement they whip out a letter of Marque and claim to be doing it legitimately, then this puts their patron in a diplomatic bind. If they agree, then the privateer may get off, but the nation should probably take an honour hit for acting dishonourably. Or they can just pretend they know nothing about it and leave the privateers to their fate.

Of course, catching people taking prizes is easier said than done. The ocean is a big place.


J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 am

It could be the Pirates were hiding behind the Ensign of a Major nation, just to make sure no one takes action against them, so maybe the Nation whose Ensign was being dragged through the mire could or should have felt honour bound to take action against the naughty pirates! Or if they confirm the have allowed pirates to operate under their flag, other more honour oriented nations could feel free to remove the pirates from the scene, afterall such dastardly behavior wouldn't have beeen allowed by any honourable nation.

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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:34 pm


Is it cuss they is French or cuss they is Corsair's or cuss so many come from the West Indies or just cuss they is little that everyone is picking on the Corsairs?

The Corsairs do a bit of "recruiting" amongst his own subjects for the legitimate & legal heir (under Spanish law) and before you know it you have Scots and other barrack room lawyers threatening all sorts of legal action but do they do the same when:

- Powers try to "recuit" on land.

- The Knights of St John and other Italian Powers wage their Corsa against Muslim and Christain shipping which owes loyalty to the Ottoman Empire.

- The English Navy attacks Cadiz trying to seize the Port and Ships in it without any legal justification at all.

- The Army of Savoy marches into Milan to back King Philip's claim to the Duchy.

- The Austrian Army marches into Naples to reinforce the claim of Charles Hapsburg to Naples.

- The French Navy sail to Sicily to reinforce the claims of King Philip.

- The French Army marches into Flanders to reinforce the claims of Philip of Anjou.

Just wish someone would get a move on and start a proper war so I can put the "Commision of Array" (as its termed in English) to one side and get some legally unquestioned letters of Marque out to the lads.

They do not even have to be Bourbon......special prices on offer for Great Northern War's, Ottomans/Italians conflicts, etc, etc......Go on give a Corsair a letter of Marque and a small pile of Gold! You know you want too pirat

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Deacon
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:07 am


I think there has been plenty of commentary about those other things too!
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:59 am

As Deacon points out, things do get said...though you'll forgive me if I say i can't remember the Knight of St John being active in G10 nor can I recall the English attacking Cadiz yet...

I would also remind Stuart that Scotland backed him when he got attacked by pirates in the Indies a few turns back, so we are even handed in our dislike of piracy
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:50 am

Just to help give you the overall picture, the official French governments honour score has plummeted because of the activities of the men from St Malo. I can think of no other reason why Richard has hit the French honour score every time the corsairs do something.

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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:52 am

Basileus wrote:Just to help give you the overall picture, the official French governments honour score has plummeted because of the activities of the men from St Malo. I can think of no other reason why Richard has hit the French honour score every time the corsairs do something.

Rats! Following conversations on the forum about France being too large a position for one player and never seeming to have the same weight as it did historically. The whole point of me playing a minor French position was to see if having a second French Player helps France to punch its historic weight and take some of the weight off the main French player.

Not sure if its just me or having the Corsairs active is an automatic problem for the main French Government (Bit like active Jacobites or Blackbeard for England) but as the experiment has not worked I will drop the position.

Hope to see you all in the Senate when the Roman Game starts

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Re: Game 10

Post by Marshal Bombast on Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:25 pm

Stuart Bailey wrote:
Basileus wrote:Just to help give you the overall picture, the official French governments honour score has plummeted because of the activities of the men from St Malo. I can think of no other reason why Richard has hit the French honour score every time the corsairs do something.

Rats! Following conversations on the forum about France being too large a position for one player and never seeming to have the same weight as it did historically. The whole point of me playing a minor French position was to see if having a second French Player helps France to punch its historic weight and take some of the weight off the main French player.

Not sure if its just me or having the Corsairs active is an automatic problem for the main French Government (Bit like active Jacobites or Blackbeard for England) but as the experiment has not worked I will drop the position.

Hope to see you all in the Senate when the Roman Game starts

I for one would hate to see you go from the game, you have helped provide some colour and excitement in the paper.

It's more the circumstances in the background as I doubt there would be such an honour problem if there was an actual official war going on that the Corsairs could take advantage of.

Have you thought that some of the peacetime strength of France is about trade and that the second position could look to mercantile activities during peacetime, with the odd ship going missing. Given that France can trade with Japan there could also be a profitable market in being an intermediary for other nations and should anyone go to war with France then Corsairs could stop trading with the enemy and perhaps even keep their goods thus doubly hurting any opposition to the French or any other nation you side with.

I'm not trying to stop you if you want to leave and I am only suggesting there may be more opportunities for French honour in the situation than at first sight.
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Stuart

I would urge you to reconsider and stay in the game. Afterall, who will I insult and be rude to if you go ? Wink

Seriously, I feel having the Corsairs active does add a dimension to the game that is needed, and you play it well. Like Marshall Bombast, i do think maybe a slight change in how you play the game (for now) would counter the apparent negative affect you might have had on the French position (and way the game is going, there will be a war for you soon, not sure it's the war you might expect however)
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:12 pm

I would be truly upset if Stuart were to drop. The French crown has been able to deal with a declining honour score and I don't count the honour score as winning the game any more, there are 101 subtle measures to success, so Stuart I would urge you to stay.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:38 am

Honour matters, but it doesn't matter as much as many think it does.

I think the solution here is to give the corsairs a legitimate target instead of letting them drag France into state sponsored piracy which is likely to continue to hurt French honour. France can pick something to get offended by and then go from there. I would think it's the doing this without the 'due process' of announcing state sponsored war acts against others. Public declarations of war, retribution, etc, are what I think the game expects from honourable nations before hostilities start.

My very basic understanding is that privateers historically did often turn to piracy when they lost the ability to legitimately take prizes. So in that sense, this isn't off.

I will add that I did try to play a pirate position once. i didn't last very long. The options were very limited for the position and it frustrated me.

If you want to go this route, I actually think that it might be better to actually pick up tunis, or morocco, or oman or something like that, and just make piracy against the christian part of your state activities. High risk, and probably not high reward, but you'd be doing it for the fun of it anyway, right?

J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:40 am

Problem is that a pirate posiiton is a bit of a straight jacket position if you are playing an "independant" pirate like Blackbeard then if you are too successful you tend to come to the notice of the Navies of the other players.

The Corsairs position has a degree of saftey in that it can hide behind a smokescreen of legality by being in French service, but it appears that there are knock on effects in game for that security.

Now that the Corsairs have their Prince virtually upon the throne of Spain, it maybe time to swap the parrot & eye patch in for the glories of El Estoral?
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:14 am

Ok, we're all agreed, Stuart isn't allowed to leave as
1) France doesn't mind the honour loss
2) I would have no one to threaten legal action against if he did go.

Anyway, the French Corsairs did end up becoming respectable gentlemen (if becoming a French admiral counts) or successful merchants...so Stuart could do that for a bit...until a nice little war breaks out to let him unleash his piracy tendencies
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:53 pm

Giving it some thought, French honour could have dropped because France stopped supporting the Jacobite cause in order to develop good relations with England, Scotland and the Dutch. So it might not have been Corsair activity.
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:10 pm

Basileus wrote:Giving it some thought, French honour could have dropped because France stopped supporting the Jacobite cause in order to develop good relations with England, Scotland and the Dutch. So it might not have been Corsair activity.

Must be honest, I always thought honour was a personal thing, even in a team position, so Stuart's actions wouldn't affect your own honour score?

Think of the advantages of English/Scottish/Dutch friendship, no need to look suspiciously at Dover, no threat of haggis being smuggled in. no need to have a freeloading ex-king and his court hanging around outside your bedroom door...worth a few honour points
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:39 am


I would imagine that abandoning the catholic jacobites a much more likely cause of honor drop.

J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:54 am

It may also have something to do with all the wrangling over the throne of Spain, there were a lot of claims counter claims & counter, counter claims going on both sides putting their view & trying to put down their opponents, have found in the past that such actions can also damage honour score

It may also be that with French candidate on the verge of getting the Spanish throne that in game mechanics may be at work to ensure an over mighty position isn't allowed a too easy ride.
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:32 am

That's agreed then, my bad, Corsairs are not bad for French honour scores. Apologies to Stuart.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Kerensky on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:18 pm

Hi Stuart, Doge of Genoa & occasional Vicere of Napoli here. Just joined to say, dont pull the plug on the game. You bring a valuable spirit, creativity & wit to the game. I do not believe pirate activity has driven the drop in French standing in polite society. I suspect it is a case of Imperial overreach, on our collective parts.
James
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:55 pm

Not that I'm trying to influence game-play shifting further afield than Europe but, ""About 71 percent of the Earth's surface is water-covered, and the oceans hold about 96.5 percent of all Earth's water."" ""This body of water (the Indian Ocean) covers about 19.5 percent of the total water on Earth, or in other words, one-fifth. It covers 13.8 percent of the Earth's surface.""

Lets see some Southern Hemisphere action! (that might sound a bit rude Embarassed )


Yes, I know, the Indian Ocean spans both hemispheres.


J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:38 pm

If you tire of Piracy you can alway consider a job on the board of the VOIC, where you can capture Spanish treasure fleets, plunder the coast of the New world, avoid Scotish law courts all quite legally in the name of finance!

Must be better than press ganging Spanish sailors .

You get an added bonus of Scotisch Haggis, Dutch Cheese & English Bacon sandwiches , now surely an offer you cannot refuse!
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Re: Game 10

Post by revvaughan on Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:44 am

Stuart... You can't leave us! Who else would we banter with? Game 10 is shaping up to be interesting and I don't think it would be near as much fun (or interesting) if you weren't around.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:02 am

Oh, go on then. I'll admit that I'd miss the Corsairs, too. I'm still sad that the young Prince of Wales' mishaps and adventures are over Sad So seeing another of the expanded French position vanish would be a blow to Game 10.

If nothing else, look at the size of Game 10's newspaper issues compared to those of 8 and 9 (I've no copies of 7, so have no comparison). Game 10's news is double that of 9, from what I saw, and is, at least, five pages longer than 8's. Losing another 'character position' from the Game would really shorten the newspaper if nowt else. Don't do it, man...Think of the readers! Smile

*Okay a lot of the newspaper of 10 does cover the not-WSS developments. All the legal wranglings and arguments, as well as the goings on in Italy.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:50 am

September 1702. The newspaper, according to me. Not that I understand half of what I've read. It's all about Spain. And Naples. And Sicily. And the French (one way or another).

* London: Copies of a treaty developed from comments made at the London Naval Conference have been dispatched to those interested, and present at the recent chin-wagging hot-air convention (not to be confused with the other chin-wagging hot-air convention in Rome). Elsewhere, the Scotch are pleased to hear that they made a handsome profit selling grub to the English.
England, Scotland, and the Dutch favour, so the say, that the Portuguese King should ascend the big chair of Spain.

* Dutch officials attempt to give instructions on behalf of the Swedish government, but the Swedes at Amsterdam are having none of it -- mainly there issue was with lack of payment. Make of this what you will!

* Brussels: The Bourbon government of Spain's Viceroy of Flanders has arrived. Elsewhere, French troops have garrisoned various locales and effectively supplied Game 10 with French Flanders.

* At Versailles: Big King Louis XIV declares his admiration for the English (and the Scots and the Dutch). This caused a bit of a stir amongst the salons.

* Paris: Some chap called Jean Barnard assured the Paris Exchange that they have received a good deal, and the privateering branch suppliers need fear not in concern to receiving the poorer end of any dealings (akin with dealing with pirates).

* Stuff happened in Copenhagen and Stockholm and Brunswick. Mainly it involved soldiers walking around a new town square, some bears getting bashed over the head, and an audience in private. Obviously these were separate events (or were they?)

* Prague: The Swedes attempt to make the place an artillery park, before going off on a tour of Europe.

* Saxon dragoons ride into Vienna. The Emperor hosts a grand ball and banquet -- elsewhere, Prince James Louis Sobieski holds private discourse in Vilnius.

* Lvov: (answers on a postcard as to where this place is!) Cossack's propose to liberate Kiev from the Russians. They might have gotten the wrong message from these Polish-held knees-ups!

* Moscow: Much piety is evident.

* Portugal: Invasion! ...of Spanish peasants. They then have the cheek to demand they be settled in Portugal, as promised, and aren't that enthused to learn they could be being shipped off to foreign climes.

* Madrid: The French ambassador upsets some Spaniards, in regard them possibly supporting Philippe as King of France. The ambassador then went on to remind them that Philippe is also the rightful king of Spain. According to Team France. [I'm glad I'm playing Rozwi, as I can't keep up to date with who rules what in Europe!]

* Levant: Naval action - Spaniard/Tuscan/Bourbon-flagged ship.

* Balearic Islands: ditto the above.

* Genoa: Genoan and Tuscan trade politicking.

* Turin: King James (the exiled chap) sets up home in Savoy and invites the Duke round for a cup of tea.

* Florence: The Grand Duke would like to know of the Spaniards, just who is their king? One thing the duke does know is, that he does not recognise Philippe of Anjou as king.

* Rome: The Secretary of the Papal Army is not amused (maybe its his job title?)
King Joseph of Germany (no idea who this chap is!) states that Sicily does not belong to Philippe (the self-appointed).

* Naples: The Vice-regent of the Kingdom of Naples for King Philippe (he gets around this Philippe) and the Habsburg's Viceroy of Naples give speech to the Sedici Council (is this one man two jobs? Or two men? I'm not sure). Much, impressive, bible quoting is done. Relief aid is collected for the unfortunates of the Catania suffering from the recent eruption of Mount Etna. Though some Neapolitans are rather more interested in sorting out their own city, after Mount Vesuvius blew earlier.
Oh yes, this (one-man-two-jobs?) chap also declares himself leader and viceroy for Carlos VI,King of Naples and Sicily, and no longer Philippe's man. Game 10 now has an independent Hapsburg Kingdom of Naples and Sicily. (Wow, that's two new countries in one game turn! Beat that games 7,8,9)

Some Hussars arrive on behalf of Karl Hapsburg, King of Naples (no idea which Carl or Karl they represent, there's too many people calling themselves the ruler of this place!) The locals rather take to these chaps and stand around cheering them.
The Navy of Naples has run down their French ensigns, but kept their Neapolitan colours flying!

* Palermo: The inconsiderate Archbishop went and died last month, meaning Philippe de Bourbon (who, you might remember, is rightful king of Spain, according to himself) isn't crowned king of Sicily. How many shiny hats does one man want?!

* Malta: The Knights aren't up for joining the Viceroy of Sicily (your guess is as good as mine as to who this is, or whom he represents) in a bit of pirate hunting. The Grandmaster thinks the letter was written by the Genoans.
The ship San Giorgio hauls down its French flag, which was being displayed alongside the Naples ensign.

* Cairo: Savoy asks about some grain being for sale. The Crimean grain sale looks done and dusted.

* Portuguese East Africa: There's going to be a future war with the Burundi, apparently. I think this is because the Portuguese, previously, sent in some recruiters into Burundi, without asking first, and they were swiftly slaughtered when the locals mistook them for slavers. So a bit of retaliation is in the offing.
Oh, and the Portuguese are still after the Madagascan king who chopped off some Portuguese trader's head back in 1700.

* Maung (formerly in Ovambo, currently in Rozwi): Much celebrating is done. Cow jumping and wrestling is all the rage, apparently. Military council is held. Hunting is a failure.

* Kowloon: The Chinese set off with a mighty convoy of 667 merchant ships and 37 cruisers. Where can they be going and for what purpose?

* Edo: The Chinese great convoy reaches Edo without incident. The Japanese prepare 10,000,000 tons of rice (to attempt sinking the ships ... possibly).
The Dutch are given permission to address the Shogun. No news as to the French position on this decision -- The French currently hold trading rights at Deshima.

** Letter from Scotland to Savoy. Please stop referring to James Stuart as king of Scotland. You'll only embarrass the chap with memories of his own incompetence.

** Updated map of Africa. (It has Imhambane, Umtali, Ba-Phalaborwa, Site of Wankie, Maung, Mababe, Savuti Marsh and Opuwo on it, at least)

** Sailings: Rene Trouin has left London. ""Elvis has left the building"" (Is this the chap who wanted the sword fight with the head of the English government?)

That's all folks! pig

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