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Game 10

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J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:29 pm

So, just to be clear al Navy could round up Privateers of another Nation if they were at work against merchant shipping, it may cause a bit of a diplomatic stink, but wouldn't count as an act of war, because officially the Priviteers are acting without the 100% consent of their home government. A case of if they get caught then its there own fault & nothing to do with the home nation of the privateers?

almost a warlike act but not quite!
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Deacon
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm


That is my understanding. If a privateer is taking prizes and nobody anywhere has declared war, any naval officer is going to justly presume they're pirate, I think.

If after an engagement they whip out a letter of Marque and claim to be doing it legitimately, then this puts their patron in a diplomatic bind. If they agree, then the privateer may get off, but the nation should probably take an honour hit for acting dishonourably. Or they can just pretend they know nothing about it and leave the privateers to their fate.

Of course, catching people taking prizes is easier said than done. The ocean is a big place.


J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 am

It could be the Pirates were hiding behind the Ensign of a Major nation, just to make sure no one takes action against them, so maybe the Nation whose Ensign was being dragged through the mire could or should have felt honour bound to take action against the naughty pirates! Or if they confirm the have allowed pirates to operate under their flag, other more honour oriented nations could feel free to remove the pirates from the scene, afterall such dastardly behavior wouldn't have beeen allowed by any honourable nation.

Stuart Bailey
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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:34 pm


Is it cuss they is French or cuss they is Corsair's or cuss so many come from the West Indies or just cuss they is little that everyone is picking on the Corsairs?

The Corsairs do a bit of "recruiting" amongst his own subjects for the legitimate & legal heir (under Spanish law) and before you know it you have Scots and other barrack room lawyers threatening all sorts of legal action but do they do the same when:

- Powers try to "recuit" on land.

- The Knights of St John and other Italian Powers wage their Corsa against Muslim and Christain shipping which owes loyalty to the Ottoman Empire.

- The English Navy attacks Cadiz trying to seize the Port and Ships in it without any legal justification at all.

- The Army of Savoy marches into Milan to back King Philip's claim to the Duchy.

- The Austrian Army marches into Naples to reinforce the claim of Charles Hapsburg to Naples.

- The French Navy sail to Sicily to reinforce the claims of King Philip.

- The French Army marches into Flanders to reinforce the claims of Philip of Anjou.

Just wish someone would get a move on and start a proper war so I can put the "Commision of Array" (as its termed in English) to one side and get some legally unquestioned letters of Marque out to the lads.

They do not even have to be Bourbon......special prices on offer for Great Northern War's, Ottomans/Italians conflicts, etc, etc......Go on give a Corsair a letter of Marque and a small pile of Gold! You know you want too pirat

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Deacon
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:07 am


I think there has been plenty of commentary about those other things too!
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:59 am

As Deacon points out, things do get said...though you'll forgive me if I say i can't remember the Knight of St John being active in G10 nor can I recall the English attacking Cadiz yet...

I would also remind Stuart that Scotland backed him when he got attacked by pirates in the Indies a few turns back, so we are even handed in our dislike of piracy
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:50 am

Just to help give you the overall picture, the official French governments honour score has plummeted because of the activities of the men from St Malo. I can think of no other reason why Richard has hit the French honour score every time the corsairs do something.

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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:52 am

Basileus wrote:Just to help give you the overall picture, the official French governments honour score has plummeted because of the activities of the men from St Malo. I can think of no other reason why Richard has hit the French honour score every time the corsairs do something.

Rats! Following conversations on the forum about France being too large a position for one player and never seeming to have the same weight as it did historically. The whole point of me playing a minor French position was to see if having a second French Player helps France to punch its historic weight and take some of the weight off the main French player.

Not sure if its just me or having the Corsairs active is an automatic problem for the main French Government (Bit like active Jacobites or Blackbeard for England) but as the experiment has not worked I will drop the position.

Hope to see you all in the Senate when the Roman Game starts

Marshal Bombast
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Re: Game 10

Post by Marshal Bombast on Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:25 pm

Stuart Bailey wrote:
Basileus wrote:Just to help give you the overall picture, the official French governments honour score has plummeted because of the activities of the men from St Malo. I can think of no other reason why Richard has hit the French honour score every time the corsairs do something.

Rats! Following conversations on the forum about France being too large a position for one player and never seeming to have the same weight as it did historically. The whole point of me playing a minor French position was to see if having a second French Player helps France to punch its historic weight and take some of the weight off the main French player.

Not sure if its just me or having the Corsairs active is an automatic problem for the main French Government (Bit like active Jacobites or Blackbeard for England) but as the experiment has not worked I will drop the position.

Hope to see you all in the Senate when the Roman Game starts

I for one would hate to see you go from the game, you have helped provide some colour and excitement in the paper.

It's more the circumstances in the background as I doubt there would be such an honour problem if there was an actual official war going on that the Corsairs could take advantage of.

Have you thought that some of the peacetime strength of France is about trade and that the second position could look to mercantile activities during peacetime, with the odd ship going missing. Given that France can trade with Japan there could also be a profitable market in being an intermediary for other nations and should anyone go to war with France then Corsairs could stop trading with the enemy and perhaps even keep their goods thus doubly hurting any opposition to the French or any other nation you side with.

I'm not trying to stop you if you want to leave and I am only suggesting there may be more opportunities for French honour in the situation than at first sight.
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Stuart

I would urge you to reconsider and stay in the game. Afterall, who will I insult and be rude to if you go ? Wink

Seriously, I feel having the Corsairs active does add a dimension to the game that is needed, and you play it well. Like Marshall Bombast, i do think maybe a slight change in how you play the game (for now) would counter the apparent negative affect you might have had on the French position (and way the game is going, there will be a war for you soon, not sure it's the war you might expect however)
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:12 pm

I would be truly upset if Stuart were to drop. The French crown has been able to deal with a declining honour score and I don't count the honour score as winning the game any more, there are 101 subtle measures to success, so Stuart I would urge you to stay.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:38 am

Honour matters, but it doesn't matter as much as many think it does.

I think the solution here is to give the corsairs a legitimate target instead of letting them drag France into state sponsored piracy which is likely to continue to hurt French honour. France can pick something to get offended by and then go from there. I would think it's the doing this without the 'due process' of announcing state sponsored war acts against others. Public declarations of war, retribution, etc, are what I think the game expects from honourable nations before hostilities start.

My very basic understanding is that privateers historically did often turn to piracy when they lost the ability to legitimately take prizes. So in that sense, this isn't off.

I will add that I did try to play a pirate position once. i didn't last very long. The options were very limited for the position and it frustrated me.

If you want to go this route, I actually think that it might be better to actually pick up tunis, or morocco, or oman or something like that, and just make piracy against the christian part of your state activities. High risk, and probably not high reward, but you'd be doing it for the fun of it anyway, right?

J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:40 am

Problem is that a pirate posiiton is a bit of a straight jacket position if you are playing an "independant" pirate like Blackbeard then if you are too successful you tend to come to the notice of the Navies of the other players.

The Corsairs position has a degree of saftey in that it can hide behind a smokescreen of legality by being in French service, but it appears that there are knock on effects in game for that security.

Now that the Corsairs have their Prince virtually upon the throne of Spain, it maybe time to swap the parrot & eye patch in for the glories of El Estoral?
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:14 am

Ok, we're all agreed, Stuart isn't allowed to leave as
1) France doesn't mind the honour loss
2) I would have no one to threaten legal action against if he did go.

Anyway, the French Corsairs did end up becoming respectable gentlemen (if becoming a French admiral counts) or successful merchants...so Stuart could do that for a bit...until a nice little war breaks out to let him unleash his piracy tendencies
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:53 pm

Giving it some thought, French honour could have dropped because France stopped supporting the Jacobite cause in order to develop good relations with England, Scotland and the Dutch. So it might not have been Corsair activity.
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:10 pm

Basileus wrote:Giving it some thought, French honour could have dropped because France stopped supporting the Jacobite cause in order to develop good relations with England, Scotland and the Dutch. So it might not have been Corsair activity.

Must be honest, I always thought honour was a personal thing, even in a team position, so Stuart's actions wouldn't affect your own honour score?

Think of the advantages of English/Scottish/Dutch friendship, no need to look suspiciously at Dover, no threat of haggis being smuggled in. no need to have a freeloading ex-king and his court hanging around outside your bedroom door...worth a few honour points
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:39 am


I would imagine that abandoning the catholic jacobites a much more likely cause of honor drop.

J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:54 am

It may also have something to do with all the wrangling over the throne of Spain, there were a lot of claims counter claims & counter, counter claims going on both sides putting their view & trying to put down their opponents, have found in the past that such actions can also damage honour score

It may also be that with French candidate on the verge of getting the Spanish throne that in game mechanics may be at work to ensure an over mighty position isn't allowed a too easy ride.
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:32 am

That's agreed then, my bad, Corsairs are not bad for French honour scores. Apologies to Stuart.

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Re: Game 10

Post by Kerensky on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:18 pm

Hi Stuart, Doge of Genoa & occasional Vicere of Napoli here. Just joined to say, dont pull the plug on the game. You bring a valuable spirit, creativity & wit to the game. I do not believe pirate activity has driven the drop in French standing in polite society. I suspect it is a case of Imperial overreach, on our collective parts.
James
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:55 pm

Not that I'm trying to influence game-play shifting further afield than Europe but, ""About 71 percent of the Earth's surface is water-covered, and the oceans hold about 96.5 percent of all Earth's water."" ""This body of water (the Indian Ocean) covers about 19.5 percent of the total water on Earth, or in other words, one-fifth. It covers 13.8 percent of the Earth's surface.""

Lets see some Southern Hemisphere action! (that might sound a bit rude Embarassed )


Yes, I know, the Indian Ocean spans both hemispheres.


J Flower
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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:38 pm

If you tire of Piracy you can alway consider a job on the board of the VOIC, where you can capture Spanish treasure fleets, plunder the coast of the New world, avoid Scotish law courts all quite legally in the name of finance!

Must be better than press ganging Spanish sailors .

You get an added bonus of Scotisch Haggis, Dutch Cheese & English Bacon sandwiches , now surely an offer you cannot refuse!
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Re: Game 10

Post by revvaughan Yesterday at 1:44 am

Stuart... You can't leave us! Who else would we banter with? Game 10 is shaping up to be interesting and I don't think it would be near as much fun (or interesting) if you weren't around.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 Yesterday at 10:02 am

Oh, go on then. I'll admit that I'd miss the Corsairs, too. I'm still sad that the young Prince of Wales' mishaps and adventures are over Sad So seeing another of the expanded French position vanish would be a blow to Game 10.

If nothing else, look at the size of Game 10's newspaper issues compared to those of 8 and 9 (I've no copies of 7, so have no comparison). Game 10's news is double that of 9, from what I saw, and is, at least, five pages longer than 8's. Losing another 'character position' from the Game would really shorten the newspaper if nowt else. Don't do it, man...Think of the readers! Smile

*Okay a lot of the newspaper of 10 does cover the not-WSS developments. All the legal wranglings and arguments, as well as the goings on in Italy.

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