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Game 10

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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:01 pm

I almost feel sorry for the penniless, landless vagabond James Stuart...there he is, finally thinks he has found someone willing to give him and his destitute family a home...and then his new host makes sly remarks about his past...I was only doing the decent thing in saying something...

Stuart Bailey
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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:47 pm


Ekkkkkkk....I have not even left G10 yet (still waiting for update on if the Corsairs damage the main French position & the new Roman Game) and already someone is trying to fit up the corsairs for Spanish merchant ships sunk in the Adriatic by French flagged cruisers.

If people what to blame the Corsairs for their deeds please note a) They are currently flying Bourbon Spanish flags and b) They do not sink merchant ships since this is a waste of expensive powder, shot, plus a ships hull and cargo.....the point of privateering is to make money not waste it!

Ref the word on the jungle drums Would also like to say that its not two new countries its one since the Duchy of Flanders has been around for ages (Ok it used to be a lot larger before the Northern bit "Got Religion" and went its own way and the French chopped some bits off as a Dowry). The new development is the fact that after 400 years the King of the Germans and the Doge of Genoa want to seperate Sicily from the Kingdom of Aragon/Spain and politically add it back to Southern Italy for the first time since days of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Seems that the Doge of Genoa has also "got religion" has has given this as a reason to betray the French and pinch a province off Spain. Wonder which verse will be used to explain fire and famine in Genoa?

But for sake of historical correctness here is a brief history of the Kingdom of Sicily prior to 1700:

- Eastern Emperor in Constantinople (Turkish Sultan and Russian Czar now both claim to be his heir) to busy beating up Bulgars, Russians, Arabs etc to note that his Island of Sicily has been taken over by Arab Pirates.

- Pope not very happy about Arab Pirates raiding Papal States so he promises lots of nice things to bunch of Knights who have left Normandy for somewhere sunnier. Normans at this stage are not yet French and tend to do a lot of leaveing Normandy for places like England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland......assume the De Bruces etc who went to Scotland were not interested in somewhere sunnier than Normandy or they got badly lost.

- Normans get rid of Arab Pirates but do not give it back to Eastern Empire instead Pope gives them the brand new KINGDOM OF SICILY

- From 1194 onwards the Kingdom of Sicily plus lots of lands on mainland Italy and Imperial Title of Holy Roman Emperor end up in control of Frederick II and his sons who Pope first likes then does not like at all. In fact he dislikes them so much he calls a Crusade (several) against this family.

- One of the Crusaders is the brother of a Saint (who is also King Louis of France) called Charles of Anjou (funny in 1700 that we have a Charles and a seperate Anjou) who is not a Saint but he does manage to defeats the Imperialists in Italy and cut their heads off. The Pope says well done......have their Lands and Titles. Oh and while you are about it how would you like to before Emperor in Constantinople and restore Orthodoxy to the Catholic Church since you are the brother of a bona fida French Saint.

- Charles keeps the Kingdom of Naples (which he still calls the Kingdom of Sicily) but the actual Island of Sicily decide (helped by large amounts of Byzantine Gold) decide they do not want to be ruled from Naples or pay Charles of Anjou's taxes and in 1302 slaughter all his troops on the Island as the come out of Vespers.

- Following the "Sicilian Vespers" the locals decide that Charles of Anjou & the Pope may be a bit upset so they call in lots of Catalans to help them who in turn decide this is a big job and call in their King who is the King of Aragon and his Navy. The Navy of Aragon makes sure Charles of Anjou can not invade the Island and Naples and Sicily remain seperate Kingdoms.

- In 1412 the Crown of Sicily is combined with the Crown of Aragon (which already includes Sardinia) and later with the Crown of Spain when Ferdinand of Aragon (and Sicily) weds Isabella of Castile. Later on the King of Spain also becomes King of Naples but the Kingdoms remain seperate with seperate laws and Viceroys etc. After all look what happened to the last bunch of people to try and tell the Sicilians that it would be much easier if they took orders from Naples......throats cut as they left Vespers!

While the Doge of Genoa is famous for his charm and diplomacy I look forward to seeing him convince the Sicilians that they should merge with Naples and also convince the King of Aragon that after 300 years he should give Sicily to the Kingdom of Naples.



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Re: Game 10

Post by Kerensky on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:50 am

Hi Stuart, I think there is only one reply possible to the above. I am glad you are planning to stay! Doge of Genoa/ James
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:43 pm

A Satirical Rhyme

Now this may sound silly,
But what about Scilly?
If the French became boss,
Raised The Scillonian Cross,
And the Hundred was Cornish no more.

King Philippe the hopeful,
That is he that is boastful.
Turned his gaze to the north,
and set rogue Trouin to go forth.
London conference would all be for naught.

Ship-wrecking and free-trading,
It be all there for the taking.
Possible ruin of English commerce at sea.
Under cover of darkness,
Those boat captain's are heartless.
For true corsairs and pirates they be.

But we forget the whole picture,
What if King Jim returns from stricture.
To raise Royal Standard on soil now loyal to he.
London would be in a real pickle,
Should Scotch and Dutch help be only a trickle.
And the Isles of Scilly were lost permanently.



Bugger. Should have posted this in next turn's newspaper.
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Basileus
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:31 pm

Not bad ...
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Deacon
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:09 am


Ha.

I am surprised nobody mentioned the danish doubling taxes on nobles.

My experience is this is likely to damage honour and the economy both, but will be curious to see.

Also suspect French are going to suffer a bit in the honour department for all the french flagged ships engaging in piracy.
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:55 am

Realised a point I'd failed to understand, yesterday. That there's two French Philippe characters. Philippe of Anjou. And Philippe d'Orleans.

Is d'Orleans the son of Anjou?

Which one wants to be king of Spain? And is he the same chap who wants to be king of Sicily?

And, d'Orleans is the viceroy of French Flanders - which he's doing in the name of the Philippe who'd like to be Spain's king?

There is a reason why I chose to play Rozwi. European positions are too complex for my understanding!

I also fail to understand on whose side the various Italian positions are on. Savoy is 'Team France', as it were. But whose side is Genoa and Tuscany and Venice on? If they even are. Or are they all, or individually, neutral? Obviously The Papacy/Papal States is NPC in Game 10. Its very complicated. And I haven't even tried to figure out if The Stuart's in exile are being actively played, or not.

Roy the confused. Question
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Michael
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Re: Game 10

Post by Michael on Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:44 pm

My impression is Austria and Venice are tied in mutual support . Genoa changes flags more times than a French Corsair and Tuscany is with neither camp and waiting for the Spanish to sort it out .
The Duke of Orleans , the younger brother of the Sun King . Died in 1701 historically . Not sure if this is the same character in Game 10 or if the character really is dead and the title has been passed on to an in game character in which case it would be his son .. i think .


Last edited by Michael on Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : keep finding new stuff)

Stuart Bailey
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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:41 pm

Michael wrote:My impression is Austria and Venice are tied in mutual support . Genoa changes flags more times than a French Corsair and Tuscany is with neither camp and waiting for the Spanish to sort it out .
The Duke of Orleans , the younger brother of the Sun King . Died in 1701 historically . Not sure if this is the same character in Game 10 or if the character really is dead and the title has been passed on to an in game character in which case it would be his son .. i think .

For info - The Philippe d'Orleans who gets the odd mention in G10 as as friend of Forbin & Bart, chairman of the Compagnie des Isles d'Amerique and as the Viceroy of Flanders for King Philippe Bourbon (Historical Duc of Anjou & King of Spain, Grandson of Louis XIV) is the son of the Duc of Orleans, bother of the Duchess of Lorraine and is married to Francoise Marie de Bourbon.

If the Game followed the strict historic timeline his dear old dad would be dead and he would be Duc of Orleans but currently the Duc is in rude good health and shows no sign of passing on his title and estates (bit likethe in game James II & William of Orange).

Too the best of my knowlegde Philippe d'Orleans had no known connection with the Compagnie des Isles or with Privateering. But he has a bit of a reputation, was a member of the same Court as Forbin and like Forbin was one of the fairly small number of people who was at Louis XIV second marriage, so its not totally unreasonable to give them a closer relationship than the historic facts and make Philippe d'Orleans a noble head of the old Colonial-Naval faction at Court which used to be headed by Colbert.

At one stage in G10 the Louis XIV player in G10 was gets loads of good (?) advise most of which clashed from a) An Italian Lobby b) A Jacobite Lobby and c) The Colonial Lobby. Probably a really poor way to run France but it seemed to catch a bit of the flavour of Bourbon Court Politics.

Pity the Jacobites dropped out of game & Genoa has now jumped ship so the Italian Lobby in France is rather reduced.

Ref "Tuscany is with neither camp and waiting for the Spanish to sort it out" I think the quote should read "Tuscany is waiting to be sorted out" Very Happy

PS For the information of Roy The Duc of Anjou is only barely twenty in 1702......hardly old enough to have an fully grown son. Historically he should have just married a Princess from Savoy but in game he is un-wed but has a mistress (a neice of Forbin). If someone ever takes over Spain who to marry the King too and how to treat his mistress will be high up the agenda.


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Re: Game 10

Post by Kerensky on Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:28 am

I must say, G10 has been one hell of a ride, and tremendous fun. First time playing in 18 years (since I left the UK).
Id like to clarify that I flew both flags for as long as possible, but there is a time when oratory & a first class band runs out of options. I was genuinely 50 - 50 (enjoy Stuarts gameplay & Louis did give me my first break), but I felt for Austria playing only the lonely, and he did have an army at the gates...
Sometimes we nation build & sometimes we just have a great fun! No Worries, James

Hapsburg
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Re: Game 10

Post by Hapsburg on Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:06 pm

And I thought it was my diplomatic skills that persuaded the Doge of Genoa! On holiday soon so sending in my turn early, and apologies for the limited number of letters this turn.

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Re: Game 10

Post by Kerensky on Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:02 pm

Your diplomatic skills did contribute, but it was a multi-faceted decision.

Primarily, there were four of us in the French faction, vs. a Hapsburg faction of one. Its a damn good game, but I was concerned if we became too dominant, it may impact others enjoyment of the game.

& you had an army at the front door!
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:14 pm


Ditto on the holidays and distraction. I've been very distracted by real life stuff (not bad, just distracting), and have been on the road most of the last month and through the middle of next month.

Sorry if I short anybody attention wise, I should be back to normal relatively soon.


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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:43 pm

Is Spain now ruled by A Bourbon King, seems Philippe claimed the title( is that a breach of the Partition treaty signed by Louis?) But the local nobility in Spain has at least for the moment snubbed him was a bit confused by that all in the last couple of turns.

Maybe it was because most of the French diplomatic effort was focused on not being king of Spain but securing the colonial Empire, which mirrored Austrian policy of not being king of Spain but making sure not to get a colonial Empire. Squeezed in somewhere is the patchwork family of Italian Dukes & Doges who don't know if they should call Hapsburgs or Bourbon "My Lord".

Now it seems philip is shouting " Fooled you all! I am king of Spain" Even though France as a signed treaty allowing him to take the title king of Naples .

Can someone please help clarify

Yours

Confused from Germany.
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Deacon
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:14 am


I think to clarify we'd have to get a clear answer out of France, and to date, that hasn't happened.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:12 am

Sorry, I don't think I should give the French position out over the forum as Richard wouldn't like that. It becomes the forum influencing the game rather than the other way round.

Politics is a murky business but I think I am applying an approach with could be consistent with the real 1700's France.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:05 pm


I wasn't really talking about here. The French position isn't clear to me, in game.

Not, mind you, that it needs to be.

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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:16 am

Deacon wrote:
I wasn't really talking about here. The French position isn't clear to me, in game.

Not, mind you, that it needs to be.

Its not only the French position which is often not clear to me. I do not understand the Austrian or Spanish position either.

Think the real problem with G10 is that with Madrid's total failure to pick A or B Catholic heir other players are left twiddling their thumbs or considering ever more unhistoric solutions.

Perhaps when Richard gets back from the Sea Side he will be in a good mood and willing to decide on a King of Spain (probably by flicking a coin) just to put the rest of us out of pain.

From my lowly French position the only things which are clear is that:

1) I hate the Grand Duke of Tuscany for shooting up my rear Cabin.

2) I hate the Doge of Venice for insulting by characters neice.

I normally find things look a lot clearer viewed through the smoke of battle!
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:56 pm

Just in anyone is in any doubt of Scotland's position...
We're not too fussed as long as it doesn't lead to

1) all out war
2) naughty pirates off our shores
3) an interruption in our whisky drinking
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:28 pm


I could be wrong, but it feels to me like Spain is no longer in play because I see no sign of them moving in any direction. Maybe it's all behind the scenes, but I tend to assume positions that go that passive are NPC.

I can appreciate that Spain threw the dice on the questionable birth trying to keep it all, but when that play lost, they needed a plan B which really should have been to pick one of the heirs on the agreement they would help tell the other to sod off.

Having failed that, the only resolution I see is that France and Austria both help themselves to parts of the spanish empire and somebody gets put in charge of whatever's left. That may or may not involve coming to blows over who takes what pieces.

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Re: Game 10

Post by Stuart Bailey on Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:37 am

Deacon wrote:
I could be wrong, but it feels to me like Spain is no longer in play because I see no sign of them moving in any direction. Maybe it's all behind the scenes, but I tend to assume positions that go that passive are NPC.

I can appreciate that Spain threw the dice on the questionable birth trying to keep it all, but when that play lost, they needed a plan B which really should have been to pick one of the heirs on the agreement they would help tell the other to sod off.

Having failed that, the only resolution I see is that France and Austria both help themselves to parts of the spanish empire and somebody gets put in charge of whatever's left. That may or may not involve coming to blows over who takes what pieces.


Up to fairly recently a Spanish Player could have kept the Empire sort of intact by crowning Philip of Anjou and saying nice things about Philip's loyal viceroys in Milan, Naples and Flanders.

The defection of The Viceroy of Naples (who is also Doge of Genoa) to Charles von Hapsburg when threatened by a mere 7 Squadrons of Hussars means whoever Spain crowns someone is going to be a potential "rebel"

Looking forward to finding out if my character(s) is going to be considered as traitors and rebels or good and noble loyalists going forward.

Fairly sure in this game I am on the side of angels and the Grand Duke of Tuscany and the Doge of Genoa are very bad men but I may be in error
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Re: Game 10

Post by Basileus on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:44 pm

I thought it had been agreed a long time ago, in Game 10 France is on the side of the angels but in game 7 the same does not apply.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:34 pm

Basileus wrote:I thought it had been agreed a long time ago, in Game 10 France is on the side of the angels but in game 7 the same does not apply.

You may want to have your marketing agency work on this message. last I checked, Satan was an angel.... Evil or Very Mad lol!

I actually wish that the Jacobites were played more as a position. I think they made game 7 a LOT more interesting. And by interesting, I mean a total train wreck that you can't turn away from!

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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:35 am

The Jacobite position in Game seven has been the most successfully played of the Jacobite positions in LGDR over the years. The player is determined to stick to his posiiton & has been successful in defending his title as king of England from all comers to date, seeing off A Catholic Hapsburg alliance to maintain his throne, There is a degree of unclarity why a Ultra Catholic house of Hapsburg felt the need to try & unseat the Ultra Catholic Stuart monarch.


In Game Ten, I suspect now that the Court of the Jacobites has moved from France to Savoy given time it may become more active, suspect only time will tell. Jacobites probably need an inactive England or Scotland to have a chance to get a bridgehead somewhere on the Islands. Or a major war to be raging involving England against another power, that other power needs to back the Jacobite cause to the hilt or they will be in trouble. Plus so long as honour scores of king william remain high then backing will at best be sporadic.

Claims of a Stuart needing to be sitting on the throne, always seem to forget that Queen Mary is a Stuart & co-reigned with William so after the desertion of the throne & dereliction of duty to the people of James the Stuart succession was secured via his daughter, people seem to focus on William & forget about her.
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:28 pm

I agree with Jason, the Jacobites need a strong backer along with an inactive England or Scotland.

But with an active England and Scotland...a popular King William...not to mention a Scottish government that, in the event of a Jacobite uprising, is likely to grab the whisky bottle, round up every soldier they have, march to the centre of the uprising, down the bottle in one go and yell at the rebel leaders "come on if you think you're hard enough"...G10 doesn't seem a good place to be a Jacobite Wink

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