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A bunch of silly newbie questions

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Nexus06
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A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:48 pm

Hey People

I'm celebrating my first year as a tGoK player, and a few dozen of pounds after signin (and two years after acquiring a position) i' ve come to understand that the more i play, the less i understand how to play. That's nice of course, but also somehow frustrating.

I've therefore chose a bunch of few questions to try to understand better the game mechanics.

Spoiler alert: in game 9 i play "against" (i don't like this term, i tend to think more about the fact that we share the same game environment) you, therefore you might be keen to avidi providing quality answeres to my question. Well, first, you do not need su ho unfair tricks to gran advantage against a newbie, second, forum is a "neutral place" were we discuss about the game, so i will trust your answeres in full.

1) How del is this game? I am an enthusiastic europa universalis IV player. And i like the depth of the game elements (trade, diplomacy, war) and the complexity of the engines that are running the game. I tend to think that tGoK share some aspects (is better for you to control certain places as "trade nodes" or key positions, and you have to face certain "groups of power" insidie your nation", and that being runned by humans the system is even more complex that a pc game. Am i right or not? For example. Controlling some area do provide trade advantages or it is of no importance?

2)Keeping the EUIV example alive, how do you think the two game get near in terms of mechanics, if they do?

3) I've tried to acquire as many game supplements as possible, and i can see that there are countless improvements that can be made (and immagine) for almost any aspect of the game. Some of them hit evident aspects, like number of recruits, kinds of weapons, kind of units. Others tend to be of more dubious advantage (for example, i have russian improved windmill, but what i'm i supposed to do with this?, Are they eventually usefull with manufactures? And what do a manufacture improves? Administrative and infrastructural improvements are "nice to have" but of little or no effect on the game flow (i just like to have them written in my position description, no other effect) or do they provide some kind of advantages making them worth the efforts?

4)Economy; i've read something about an economic report that used to be, i also saw that is possible to play a trade league position, or a trade company one, but i can see nowhere any kind or rules resource concerning the economic aspects of the game. Are there actions that support mercantilism or free trades? Specific goods for any country? Or is it all unexplored? Or it's just tax revenues, gold mines and a couple of funny trade goods?

5) Military; technically i can see little or no differences between various army. Only Dutch, Prussian and British have different kinds of platoon fire. But i can see little info on the various aspect that control war in this game (ok, grain supply and sick list - but it beginning to seem like it is more important to have grain rather than good muskets). So i'm a bit concerned. Again, few importance of the topic or a lot do discover and still unclear?

Thanks
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Jason
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Jason on Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:41 pm

Afraid never played EUIV so can't really comment on how it relates and compares to the game Smile

I have found the technological and admin/infrastructure improvements quite a benefit. For example, I have developed improved waterwheels that make various industries more efficient and so more profitable...which in turn led to increases in income from trade Smile I can imagine the windmill would have similar benefits.
Administrative improvements seem to have to benefits-firstly it means your realm is better administrated (this seems to lead to orders being carried out better, for example) and some improvements can reduce your government running costs. Improvements like roads and canals help trade, so more income Smile They also help boost your honour (I think!). Lawyers, doctors, priests, etc do have a benefit but I think it is harder to see-their effect is more accumulative. Doctors mean your peoples health is better looked after and it helps prevent outbreaks of disease; lawyers mean you have a functioning legal system and so laws are properly enforced; priests seem to help reduce the risk of insurrection. In themselves you don't always notice the difference but combined I feel they help boost income, boost honour, help make your people more law-abiding...

On the military, I know others will have a better idea than me but I have found (for example) army HQs seem to help-trained staff officers who make an army carry out its orders better, whilst ambulance and hospital units help reduce losses to battle injuries.

Nexus06
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:46 pm

Jason wrote:Afraid never played EUIV so can't really comment on how it relates and compares to the game Smile

I have found the technological and admin/infrastructure improvements quite a benefit.  For example, I have developed improved waterwheels that make various industries more efficient and so more profitable...which in turn led to increases in income from trade Smile  I can imagine the windmill would have similar benefits.  
Administrative improvements seem to have to benefits-firstly it means your realm is better administrated (this seems to lead to orders being carried out better, for example) and some improvements can reduce your government running costs.  Improvements like roads and canals help trade, so more income Smile  They also help boost your honour (I think!).  Lawyers, doctors, priests, etc do have a benefit but I think it is harder to see-their effect is more accumulative.  Doctors mean your peoples health is better looked after and it helps prevent outbreaks of disease; lawyers mean you have a functioning legal system and so laws are properly enforced; priests seem to help reduce the risk of insurrection.  In themselves you don't always notice the difference but combined I feel they help boost income, boost honour, help make your people more law-abiding...

On the military, I know others will have a better idea than me but I have found (for example) army HQs seem to help-trained staff officers who make an army carry out its orders better, whilst ambulance and hospital units help reduce losses to battle injuries.  

Thanks for your answere.

I've made several investments in the economic area, with honestly little return. The main benefit untill now has been tax people who didn't pay taxes at all. But i can easily imagine that before turning Moscovia into a trade nation i must do more, of course.

Administrative improvenments, and roads, and canals probably help with economi (EH is quite good) but surely do not affect Honour score, in this moment at least.

My question is: if you have 1.000.000£ in game, and you put them into army, raiusung units, you'll certainly gain some benefits (bigger army). If you put the same ammount into making doctors, administrators, board patrolls, trade ships, canals, watever a good enlighted statesman would do, You'll get the same ROi or it's just something like "roleplaying with little or no effect on in game mechanics?"

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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by jamesbond007 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:03 pm

Hi Nexus,

Every investment you make has an impact. Some obvious some less obvious.

Border patrols will increase your trade returns as less is getting stolen and sent across unmanned borders.

Doctors improve health. Trade ships increase trade returns. Canals increase trade returns. Administrators  increase trade or increase taxes or lessen government costs, depending on where you send them.

All you need to know is in the supplements. They tell you the benefits and how to go about it in game.

Nexus06
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:10 pm

jamesbond007 wrote:Hi Nexus,

Every investment you make has an impact. Some obvious some less obvious.

Border patrols will increase your trade returns as less is getting stolen and sent across unmanned borders.

Doctors improve health. Trade ships increase trade returns. Canals increase trade returns. Administrators  increase trade or increase taxes or lessen government costs, depending on where you send them.

All you need to know is in the supplements. They tell you the benefits and how to go about it in game.


I tryed to buy all possible supplements Richard made for tGoK (it's the only game i play, i love playing it. The impression is that "this works, but not for you" Smile

I was curious to understand is there is a complex mechanics that lies under the cover, or it's just a roleplay nations battle play (i was persuaded of the first, but after a couple of years playing i'm respectfully more keen to the second). I read that having 1000 doctors or 15000 differently impact health on nations, but for sure this means more recruits in the very long term, maybe 20 years in game (less childrens died). And how many recruits? 1000? isn't it worth more to send a recruit party and pay for them?

As Russia i also should play a modernizing ruler, but this do not provide Honour points (neverless, modernizing a country often goes against nobilty, therefore is costs HS).

I'm honestly a bit confused

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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by jamesbond007 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:51 pm

As Russia has a large population. It needs a lot of trained recruits to move up levels. As Doctors is your example. I would guess that for a good coverage you would need 50,000 trained doctors. So having 1,000 or 15,000 trained doctors is not enough to move you up a level. I play the Moghul and i need the above figure of 50,000 trained doctors for a good coverage. We have similiar population sizes. When you reach the different levels, you will be told, it will be on your sheets.

As for honour, I am poor at it. I have taken 9 towns from other Indian rulers and not gained a single honour point for it. Yet others write an article in the newspaper each turn about what the leader or his family have done dureing the month or they hold continuous dinner parties and constantly gain honour for it. I do believe honour is too far tilted towards Aristocratic nonsense rather than warefare and gaining recruits and towns. My pet hate honour.
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by MarkTurner26 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:04 pm

jamesbond007 wrote:As Russia has a large population. It needs a lot of trained recruits to move up levels. As Doctors is your example. I would guess that for a good coverage you would need 50,000 trained doctors. So having 1,000 or 15,000 trained doctors is not enough to move you up a level. I play the Moghul and i need the above figure of 50,000 trained doctors  for a good coverage. We have similiar population sizes. When you reach the different levels, you will be told, it will be on your sheets.

As for honour, I am poor at it. I have taken 9 towns from other Indian rulers and not gained a single honour point for it. Yet others write an article in the newspaper each turn about what the leader or his family have done dureing the month or they hold continuous dinner parties and constantly gain honour for it. I do believe honour is too far tilted towards Aristocratic nonsense rather than warefare and gaining recruits and towns. My pet hate honour.

Ha back to the old honour debate yet again ha ha ha! I don't think this will ever disappear and I think that's the great thing about it because no one truly knows, we come up with loads of different ways to improve it which in turn makes our games much more entertaining.

Sometimes I think its how shocked Richard is by the order lol.
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Deacon on Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:06 am


Such a broad range of questions.

I think the most fundamental piece of advice in TGOK is to say "play your nation". Every nation has a unique position and you need to figure out your inherent advantages and play to those. You can certainly, if you wish, pursue another course, but it will be hard and slow and less successful.

Let's take Russia for example.

Big nation, lots of recruits, pretty backwards. Peter's great task is "modernizing" Russia, but the best way to start that is probably to get in some wars to claim more territory. You have no ports to start the game. You can build armies and claim territory faster than you can build up your economy when you don't have natural trade paths. Conquest is a faster, better path for early Russia to gain wealth and territory. Then you can use that wealth to develop your nation later. I think the Moghul fit into this place too, as do a number of the African Ottoman positions that could start spreading south.

The Colonial powers are the opposite. They have enormous opportunities for trade, and they need to work to exploit what they have. Taking more isn't likely to help them very much since they aren't even making best use of what they already have.

Many of the smaller central european states have to either decide to risk it all on war, or that they are going the culture route. The rather small state of Hanover is #2 on the honour rolls in game 8.

In trade, yes, having key territory matters. I'm not sure where it says it in the rulebook, but somewhere it mentions that colonies in a region improve your trade in that region (big surprise that, eh?). But this is of greatest interest to those who already taking the trade route.

For military, there are a ton of military improvements you can make over time, just like there are a ton of different research advances that can help your position. But I view that by and large most of these are small multipliers that stack up on your troops effectiveness. Nice to have, but not necessary. Lots of well drilled units is a good starting point for everybody.

Much of the infrastructure work on a nation (tax collectors, administrators, lawyers), I think are unnecessary. I have done a number in game 8 specifically because my roleplay of my position in game 8 is that my king an advocate of science and the age of enlightenment. For many nations, I think it's a poor use of recruits you should be using for other purposes. When you have a ton of money, you can buy recruits various places.

As Jamesbond007 points out, honour is NOT a measure of accomplishment. I retook Zanzibar in game 8 which the Portuguese had lost some time ago. no honour. I throw lots of banquets and talk about the life of the court, and honor rolls in. I think that honour in many ways is Richard's way of rewarding the roleplay aspects of the game and participation in the paper. It also encourages you to pour money down the hole of banquets and religious buildings. They really do nothing for you, but your people love you more for it, so honour. Think of honour as how well you are managing your courtiers, not your overall position. Every ruler needs his nobles to behave, and throwing them parties does that. But it isn't a measure of how well you're doing overall. It's your reputation as a "great leader". People like leaders that entertain them with bread and circuses, I mean banquets!

And to be very specific: >>If you put the same ammount into making doctors, administrators, board patrolls, trade ships, canals, watever a good enlighted statesman would do, You'll get the same ROi or it's just something like "roleplaying with little or no effect on in game mechanics?"<<

The answer in most cases is almost no effect at all.

Canals/Roads help your EH, but if your base economy isn't already big, then spending enormously to apply a multiplier to it isn't helpful. You want to just invest in building your economy first, then worry about multipliers. Ditto trade ships and the like. They will help, but only if you already have enough trade that they help add to it.

Doctors, administrators and the like aren't likely to be much help early in most positions.

Nexus06
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:02 am

MarkTurner26 wrote:
jamesbond007 wrote:As Russia has a large population. It needs a lot of trained recruits to move up levels. As Doctors is your example. I would guess that for a good coverage you would need 50,000 trained doctors. So having 1,000 or 15,000 trained doctors is not enough to move you up a level. I play the Moghul and i need the above figure of 50,000 trained doctors  for a good coverage. We have similiar population sizes. When you reach the different levels, you will be told, it will be on your sheets.

As for honour, I am poor at it. I have taken 9 towns from other Indian rulers and not gained a single honour point for it. Yet others write an article in the newspaper each turn about what the leader or his family have done dureing the month or they hold continuous dinner parties and constantly gain honour for it. I do believe honour is too far tilted towards Aristocratic nonsense rather than warefare and gaining recruits and towns. My pet hate honour.

Ha back to the old honour debate yet again ha ha ha! I don't think this will ever disappear and I think that's the great thing about it because no one truly knows, we come up with loads of different ways to improve it which in turn makes our games much more entertaining.

Sometimes I think its how shocked Richard is by the order lol.

This is an oversemplifications, and respectfully Mark you've missed the point.

I'm not asking about honor. To keep alive the example of EU4 were you have prestige instead of honor, it helps you running things better, but it is an element of the game. I'n my short experience, honor is boosted when you play right interaction with others player or "quests" placed by Richard in running your position, and it's affected little or nome by solo actions.

But i'm interested in exploring the other part of tGoK game mechanics, the one referring to administration efficiency, trade efficiency and military efficiency vs no action on administration, 10k and 1k recruits placements per area per product sometimes and tons of soldiers in a 4:2:1 ratio with excellent drill.

the question is, in rulebook and support rule books are described some investments, but more is described the act of researching new investments (in some cases even ahed of historical times) with requires resources (bot human and economical) that are proportional to the size of the nation (or sometimes not, which sometimes act as balancing elements between a league of small nation against a huge one) and i'd like to know the opinion of mature players regarding this kind of investments.

Do you do them?

How do you use them?

Nexus06
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:07 am

Deacon wrote:
Such a broad range of questions.

I think the most fundamental piece of advice in TGOK is to say "play your nation". Every nation has a unique position and you need to figure out your inherent advantages and play to those. You can certainly, if you wish, pursue another course, but it will be hard and slow and less successful.

Let's take Russia for example.

Big nation, lots of recruits, pretty backwards. Peter's great task is "modernizing" Russia, but the best way to start that is probably to get in some wars to claim more territory. You have no ports to start the game. You can build armies and claim territory faster than you can build up your economy when you don't have natural trade paths. Conquest is a faster, better path for early Russia to gain wealth and territory. Then you can use that wealth to develop your nation later.  I think the Moghul fit into this place too, as do a number of the African Ottoman positions that could start spreading south.

The Colonial powers are the opposite. They have enormous opportunities for trade, and they need to work to exploit what they have. Taking more isn't likely to help them very much since they aren't even making best use of what they already have.

Many of the smaller central european states have to either decide to risk it all on war, or that they are going the culture route. The rather small state of Hanover is #2 on the honour rolls in game 8.

In trade, yes, having key territory matters. I'm not sure where it says it in the rulebook, but somewhere it mentions that colonies in a region improve your trade in that region (big surprise that, eh?). But this is of greatest interest to those who already taking the trade route.

For military, there are a ton of military improvements you can make over time, just like there are a ton of different research advances that can help your position. But I view that by and large most of these are small multipliers that stack up on your troops effectiveness. Nice to have, but not necessary. Lots of well drilled units is a good starting point for everybody.

Much of the infrastructure work on a nation (tax collectors, administrators, lawyers), I think are unnecessary. I have done a number in game 8 specifically because my roleplay of my position in game 8 is that my king an advocate of science and the age of enlightenment. For many nations, I think it's a poor use of recruits you should be using for other purposes. When you have a ton of money, you can buy recruits various places.

As Jamesbond007 points out, honour is NOT a measure of accomplishment. I retook Zanzibar in game 8 which the Portuguese had lost some time ago. no honour. I throw lots of banquets and talk about the life of the court, and honor rolls in. I think that honour in many ways is Richard's way of rewarding the roleplay aspects of the game and participation in the paper. It also encourages you to pour money down the hole of banquets and religious buildings. They really do nothing for you, but your people love you more for it, so honour. Think of honour as how well you are managing your courtiers, not your overall position. Every ruler needs his nobles to behave, and throwing them parties does that. But it isn't a measure of how well you're doing overall. It's your reputation as a "great leader". People like leaders that entertain them with bread and circuses, I mean banquets!

And to be very specific: >>If you put the same ammount into making doctors, administrators, board patrolls, trade ships, canals, watever a good enlighted statesman would do, You'll get the same ROi or it's just something like "roleplaying with little or no effect on in game mechanics?"<<

The answer in most cases is almost no effect at all.

Canals/Roads help your EH, but if your base economy isn't already big, then spending enormously to apply a multiplier to it isn't helpful. You want to just invest in building your economy first, then worry about multipliers. Ditto trade ships and the like. They will help, but only if you already have enough trade that they help add to it.

Doctors, administrators and the like aren't likely to be much help early in most positions.

Magnificent answer Deacon thanks! i've saved it in my bible of game together with the players guide! All very interesting, at the moment i have to say i agree with your deductions:

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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by jamesbond007 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:55 am

Nexus,

I suppose the real answer to your question depends on what your plans are and how you want to play your position.

If you are looking at war and gaining towns, countries and areas then you channel your funds and  recruits into building armies, navies ect.

If the military option is not for you then you channel your funds and recruits into raising administrators doctors ect.

Many actions will take a lot of time, money and recruits. Nothing instant unless you throw everything at it. Building a great medical coverage with doctors and hospitals will have an effect but perhaps nothing overly obvious and huge to the naked eye. Compared to taking an enemy town.  Gainiing more revenue and recruits yearly.

I think everything you do in game has an effect. Some results are just more noticeable than others. To see major effects, you need to commit major resources to it. Richard has built these effects and results into the game mechanics perfectly. Some are just not noticeable to the naked eye.

As for trade for example. If you build a few ships to help trade you will notice little improvement. But if you build those ships and canal barges and higher level canals and raise merchants to help trade investments and create a trade dept and guarantee merchant trade deals and open many trade missions ect then you will notice a major difference.

Where some players go astray. Is they do a little bit of everything and expect major changes. To notice or see major changes ( which I guess you are looking for) you need to concentrate and put nearly all your efforts and resources into it, for a small period of time.

Nexus06
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:04 am

jamesbond007 wrote:Nexus,

I suppose the real answer to your question depends on what your plans are and how you want to play your position.

If you are looking at war and gaining towns, countries and areas then you channel your funds and  recruits into building armies, navies ect.

If the military option is not for you then you channel your funds and recruits into raising administrators doctors ect.

Many actions will take a lot of time, money and recruits. Nothing instant unless you throw everything at it. Building a great medical coverage with doctors and hospitals will have an effect but perhaps nothing overly obvious and huge to the naked eye. Compared to taking an enemy town.  Gainiing more revenue and recruits yearly.

I think everything you do in game has an effect. Some results are just more noticeable than others. To see major effects, you need to commit major resources to it. Richard has built these effects and results into the game mechanics perfectly. Some are just not noticeable to the naked eye.

As for trade for example. If you build a few ships to help trade you will notice little improvement. But if you build those ships and canal barges and higher level canals and raise merchants to help trade investments and create a trade dept and guarantee merchant trade deals and open many trade missions ect then you will notice a major difference.

Where some players go astray. Is they do a little bit of everything and expect major changes. To notice or see major changes ( which I guess you are looking for) you need to concentrate and put nearly all your efforts and resources into it, for a small period of time.

Good morning Mr.Bond

You have certainly a point, but my question is more like (let's dive into the military way)

a) create army, train it, send it into the field

b) invest in a better army, create and train it, send it into the field.

usually b crushes a 9 over 10 times. Is it so in tGoK?

do you feel there is a math engine that covers various aspects and gives you bonuses for any improvement you apply, or it is more a good common sense and a roll of dice, or maybe Russia will never rules the waves because it is Russia and that's it?
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by MarkTurner26 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:11 am

Nexus06 wrote:
MarkTurner26 wrote:
jamesbond007 wrote:As Russia has a large population. It needs a lot of trained recruits to move up levels. As Doctors is your example. I would guess that for a good coverage you would need 50,000 trained doctors. So having 1,000 or 15,000 trained doctors is not enough to move you up a level. I play the Moghul and i need the above figure of 50,000 trained doctors  for a good coverage. We have similiar population sizes. When you reach the different levels, you will be told, it will be on your sheets.

As for honour, I am poor at it. I have taken 9 towns from other Indian rulers and not gained a single honour point for it. Yet others write an article in the newspaper each turn about what the leader or his family have done dureing the month or they hold continuous dinner parties and constantly gain honour for it. I do believe honour is too far tilted towards Aristocratic nonsense rather than warefare and gaining recruits and towns. My pet hate honour.

Ha back to the old honour debate yet again ha ha ha! I don't think this will ever disappear and I think that's the great thing about it because no one truly knows, we come up with loads of different ways to improve it which in turn makes our games much more entertaining.

Sometimes I think its how shocked Richard is by the order lol.

This is an oversemplifications, and respectfully Mark you've missed the point.

I'm not asking about honor. To keep alive the example of EU4 were you have prestige instead of honor, it helps you running things better, but it is an element of the game. I'n my short experience, honor is boosted when you play right interaction with others player or "quests" placed by Richard in running your position, and it's affected little or nome by solo actions.

But i'm interested in exploring the other part of tGoK game mechanics, the one referring to administration efficiency, trade efficiency and military efficiency vs no action on administration, 10k and 1k recruits placements per area per product sometimes and tons of soldiers in a 4:2:1 ratio with excellent drill.

the question is, in rulebook and support rule books are described some investments, but more is described  the act of researching new investments (in some cases even ahed of historical times) with requires resources (bot human and economical) that are proportional to the size of the nation (or sometimes not, which sometimes act as balancing elements between a league of small nation against a huge one) and i'd like to know the opinion of mature players regarding this kind of investments.

Do you do them?

How do you use them?

Good comments mate, all I can say is my comment was personal to me, I have tried many things with honour and can't come up with a definitive answer the rule book gives you a description but I can't help feel there is a lot more to it.

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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by jamesbond007 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:24 am

Nexus,

I think everything you do has an effect.

Some nations will have a better base rating for its military than others. You can all improve your militaries with training, weapons advances ect. But luck and circumstances always play a small part.

Not sure if Richard uses common sense or dices or another route. But he does reward better training weapons ect. His game mechanics are excellent I think.

Russia will always and should always be marked down against more sea fearing nations. But improvements can bring them upto others level. But if a sea fearing nation matches your improvements then their navy will still be a higher quality. But better tactics and a bigger navy can still triumph over them. So there is always hope and you can do much in game to try and level the two opposing sides. Richard builds all this into lgdr.

So I am sure that b crushes a 9 times out of 10.

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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:38 am

jamesbond007 wrote:Nexus,

I think everything you do has an effect.

Some nations will have a better base rating for its military than others. You can all improve your militaries with training, weapons advances ect. But luck and circumstances always play a small part.

Not sure if Richard uses common sense or dices or another route. But he does reward better training weapons ect. His game mechanics are excellent I think.

Russia will always and should always be marked down against more sea fearing nations. But improvements can bring them upto others level. But if a sea fearing nation matches your improvements then their navy will still be a higher quality. But better tactics and a bigger navy can still triumph over them. So there is always hope and you can do much in game to try and level the two opposing sides. Richard builds all this into lgdr.

So I am sure that b crushes a 9 times out of 10.

Thanks for your opinion James, much appreciated Smile
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Location : Portland OR, USA
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Deacon on Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:25 pm

Everything has an effect, but I think of the various choices as math. Some things are addition, some things are multiplication.

The easiest example of this is troops.

If I'm a small position, I may start with 20 units of stuff.

I have 50,000 to spend. with that 50,000 I can get about 5 more units. So I go from 20 to 25 units.

I could also open an academy with that and start to research military improvements that increase the power of my units by 10%.

So 20 x 1.1 = 22.

The multiplier 'effects' are always valuable, but if you are resource constrained, as most positions are, then you should build up your base before investing in the multipliers. Obviously, you can get to higher numbers either way, but one way is faster than the other.

Base things to me:
All trade investments
All military units

Multipliers to me:
Roads & Canals
Tax Collectors
most research advances (Military, mining improvements, etc.)
farmers for norfolk system (Things that raise EH cause your economy to grow, but if the base is small, again you're not getting as much benefit as you might from first just adding to the base)

Then there are things that grant other benefits (almost all are 'nice to haves' not at all necessary):
doctors (reduce chance of plague. plague is extremely rare in game)
Administrators (not even sure of the benefit)
Lawyers (better legal system. benefits questionable)
priests (increase your citizens' loyalty)
public schools (not sure what benefit these really have, and if it isn't a VERY long term investment)
etc.

Stuart Bailey
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Stuart Bailey on Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:06 pm


Ref the "Russian" who asked what is more important grain or good muskets?

If you are running Russia the answer has to be grain for two basic reasons a) You can have the best musket design in the world but if its built in Russia the build quality is famous for being terrible b) Its being fired by Russian Infantry who are famous for the ability to suffer losses without breaking, get by on very little and for being terrible shots.

Think with Russians best options are to either follow Peter the Great and dig in behind masses of artillery (oddly Russians in this period seem better at making cannon than muskets) or follow example of Marshal Suvorov famous for slogans like "The bullet misses, the bayonet does not" and view Russian muskets as a club with a spear on the end......and advance quickly into contact with cold steel.

If using first tactic its important to have grain to make bread in case you are left waiting around. Using second you need grain to make Vodka to build up pre attack morale and for post attack cutting off arms etc.

As for what to do with the Russian Navy.......I think Jason Flower has some idea's......along lines of they look really nice in port and not using Russians to sail your nice new Navy.

Nexus06
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:58 pm

Deacon wrote:Everything has an effect, but I think of the various choices as math. Some things are addition, some things are multiplication.

The easiest example of this is troops.

If I'm a small position, I may start with 20 units of stuff.

I have 50,000 to spend. with that 50,000 I can get about 5 more units. So I go from 20 to 25 units.

I could also open an academy with that and start to research military improvements that increase the power of my units by 10%.

So 20 x 1.1 = 22.

The multiplier 'effects' are always valuable, but if you are resource constrained, as most positions are, then you should build up your base before investing in the multipliers. Obviously, you can get to higher numbers either way, but one way is faster than the other.

Base things to me:
All trade investments
All military units

Multipliers to me:
Roads & Canals
Tax Collectors
most research advances (Military, mining improvements, etc.)
farmers for norfolk system (Things that raise EH cause your economy to grow, but if the base is small, again you're not getting as much benefit as you might from first just adding to the base)

Then there are things that grant other benefits (almost all are 'nice to haves' not at all necessary):
doctors (reduce chance of plague. plague is extremely rare in game)
Administrators (not even sure of the benefit)
Lawyers (better legal system. benefits questionable)
priests (increase your citizens' loyalty)
public schools (not sure what benefit these really have, and if it isn't a VERY long term investment)
etc.

You are seriously a case study guy!

that most interesting, i'm building up a develop plan introducing those elements as you suggested!

You have a beer offered as soon as i'll come to Portland!
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Deacon
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Deacon on Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:16 pm


If anybody does come to Portland Oregon, I'd be happy to meet for a beer, or your refreshment of choice.


jamesbond007
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by jamesbond007 on Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:16 am

Must confess I love visiting U.S for holidays. Florida is my favourite. Been there 5 times, going in October for no 6.

A childhood friend of my wife's stayed in Portland for a number of years. She married a military policeman who she met in the U.K. He left the armed forces and became a sheriff in Portland. They have separated now and she is back over here.

If I ever make it I will have a drink with you. Best wishes.

Nexus06
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Nexus06 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:06 pm

I might be able to come to London for a couple of cheering beers with fellow monarchs, but unfortunately Portland is a bit far from my usual range. In the event i'll ever be able to come i'll surely join you for a drink!!!
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revvaughan
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by revvaughan on Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:43 pm

Not far from Florida at all in the lovely state of Alabama!

J Flower
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by J Flower on Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:20 pm

It's a long way if you use the Russian navy they go via Alaska.

However back to Nexus original Question, you can probably look at your computer game for inspiration, There are probably buildings & other improvements that you can look to transfer across to LGDR world, don't expect them to function in exactly the same way, but if your lucky then the effects may be similar.

The joy of LGDR is the fact you can delve as deep or shallow as you like, you can if you wish name all your ships & give them captains, similarly with all your Land units, lists of historically accurate names & designations, uniform colours etc. are all readily available, or you can simply name units after the towns & cities where you raise them, or simply leave them unnamed as 10F,5D, 3FA the important bit is it is up to you.

You have the pleasure of free range orders which you don't have with the computer game, if you wish to create a Mad Duke of Baden who enjoys chasing butterflies then you are free to do so.

Look at your position, maybe research it historically look at the mistakes it's historical leaders made & their achievements, see if any of them are worth transferring across into LGDR.

On Trade ask your advisor's what your main imports / exports are, so you can look to shape your trade investment, so you can support areas where your trade is strong, don't forget investing in the trade area where your nation has it's homeland can also help the main Economic Health because a part of the investment goes into the local economy, also the earlier in the year that trade investments are made the more productive they will be. If you actually name a commodity to trade it it focuses the investment, however there is the danger that others invest in exactly the same trade commodity , which can cause losses
Some commodity ideas:- Salt, Rice, Silk, Tobacco, Cocoa, Cotton, leather, sugar, wine, glass, ivory, Carpets, Cattle, Fish, Furs, Dyes, Spices, Tea, opium, Jewels, Paper, Soap.
Taxation; is trouble, you can lower it to raise Economic Health & be seen as a benevolent ruler, but just try & raise it again & there will be trouble, best advise is leave it alone until you think you know where your finances are. Raised taxes on Nobility& Church just mean higher rents& tithes on the Commoners, who basically bear the brunt.
Economy; Try for things that can improve your economy & also tie in with your main exports, If you have an Engineering academy get them to develop improved versions of everyday items, windmills, waterwheels etc, they give an overall general improvement in productivity.

You can of course sit down & do the maths to work out how much money you are going to get, the problem is there are a lot of random "Agema" Factors out there, also the feared "Watts atom" is on the loose, both of which tied in with the actions of the most unstable "Fellow Player gene" will probably throw most of your calculations out of the window, still that is the foundation stone of LGDR it is historical but doesn't follow history. The special orders can make or break your turn, be prepared for outcomes you didn't want or predict & enjoy it when they actually do what you intended ( I have heard this has occasional happened.)

A personal note if you are a Russian player, the reason Russia cannot Raise Line ships at the start of the game, is a way of saving the Russian player money & recruits, because all they do is sink or mutiny, best place for such ships is a a model in an empty Vodka bottle.....

Thelittleemperor
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Thelittleemperor on Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:04 pm

Is an escort frigate a very substantial frigate ? It costs considerably more making me think it must be quite solid so better able to take punishment in line of battle.

Stuart Bailey
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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

Post by Stuart Bailey on Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:47 pm

Thelittleemperor wrote:Is an escort frigate a very substantial frigate ? It costs considerably more making me think it must be quite solid so better able to take punishment in line of battle.

To Quote Jean Bart to Louis XIV on the Subject:

The 70 Gun ship called a Lineship in Glori du Roi is actually equal to a English or French 2nd rate which in later periods became the standard battleship for these major Navies. But in 1700 the French and English battle fleets still included many older 3rd and even 4th rate ships with 50 to 60 Guns. While other Navies were mostly ships of this size and were lucky to have an equal to a English or French 2nd rate as a Flag Ship.

Richard is generally generous in allowing small Navies standard lineships with 70 Guns but many positions start with old style 3rd rate ships on their list classed as heavy frigates. These are cheap, use smaller crews, are handy for convoy protection and protection of distant colonies and can stand in the battle line. But if you try and take on 1st or 2nd rates with such ships.......you are going to get hammered! Heavy Frigates are a bit like Dragoons on land in that they have loads of uses but standing up to a charge of Elite Cavalry is not one of them.

The 2 deck Escort Frigate really represents the very largest and fastest of the mostly later period frigates. Think American 1812 Raiders are a classic example of the type but they were also favoured by French Shipbuilders for much the same reason & unless we are talking about Gold Shipments the best frigates in the Navy very rarely did Escort Duty.

In fact they were more likely to be on the other side since they were designed to be well armed enough to defeat a Convoy Escort and then fast enough to hunt down merchant ships. They were also used to hunt down pirates and other peoples Commerce raiders & privateers being quick enough to run them down and with superior fire power.

Putting such expensive ships in the line of battle is really a shocking waste of their speed. While no doubt they could do a so-so job like an Old Style 3rd rate (Heavy Frigate) the Escort Frigate is really designed to run away from Lineships while its Captain twirls his tash and makes comments like "Eat my wake you lumbering Tug Boat"

So in Conclusion Mr King......would you use your race horses to pull supply wagons? So please, please dont order by nice new Escort Frigate into the line of battle. I have just finished painting it and it might get all dirty and chipped if it has to play with those nasty rough Lineships.


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Re: A bunch of silly newbie questions

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