G8-The Strange Situation at Muscat

I'm taking the unusual step of asking advice on a specific situation I'm facing as I am puzzled by quite what is going on.  Think its generally known I am playing Persia in G8.  It was a position that has clearly been vacant for some time (possibly unplayed since the start of the game) so have spent a couple of years organising the position, sorting out its infrastructure, preparing its army, creating a navy, etc.

As I've not been in a position to do anything, I have basically played nice with everyone.  In the game Hispania has been fighting Oman and been doing pretty well.  I had assumed Oman was an NPC.

Of late though Oman has been acting aggressively towards me, much more so than I would expect for a vacant position.  This has included
1) Selling captured Spanish liners and crews to my merchants (NOT to me I hasten to add) at Muscat, a Persian city on the Omani coast.
2) Also at Muscat, opening an army camp and starting to raise troops.  My orders to have the camp closed were resisted.
3) There are now Omani troops on the streets of Muscat.

I haven't until recently had any troops at Muscat as I thought Oman was an NPC and frankly I had to concentrate my time and resources elsewhere.  The aggressive nature of Oman however has made me wonder what is going on.  I have (as far as I can recall) not threatened Oman or done anything to provoke them.  I have also never encountered a situation before where an NPC has provoked me like this (at least without provocation from me).  It seems I am being moved into a position whereby I have to declare war.

I can only see three possible explanations
1) Oman is in fact active and has just kept an incredibly low profile, even during its war with Hispania and done nothing to indicate there is a player in post.
2) Oman is inactive but a foreign power has a spy or spies there who have taken control of the country and so someone is trying to wage a war by proxy against me
3) Oman is inactive and in fact its Richard trying to provoke me into declaring war.

(1) seems possible but unlikely, I think even with the most ninja player there are giveaways in game that would have suggested it was an active position before now.
(2) might be possible, not sure I have heard of it before though.
(3) is not something I have heard happening before either, but given none of the other options seem likely either...

I don't think I am breaking any forum rules by asking this, but what do others think? I'm not really in a position to fight and win a war with Oman yet but given their behaviour I am at the stage where if I don't declare war, I will lose the city by default.  Fighting Agema is very different to fighting another player and that is why I am being a bit hesitant.

I admit I find the situation a bit baffling. Historically, Portugal owned zanzibar, and in relatively recent pre-game history (formally in 1698) the Omani took it.

I figured I'd take it back, and get them to acknowledge that and we'd be good. I didn't expect the Omani to be a complete pushover, but I figured they'd give eventually.

No, I attack their shipping and threaten them and nothing. Silence.

And now they seem to be active against the persians?

Richard or Agents seems most likely, but I'm inclined to think the latter because Persia has done nothing in the game of which I'm aware to provoke this.

I have, but I think my costs for retaking zanzibar are 20x the profits it will ever generate, and I would think the forces I have would persuade Oman to quit messing around.

The Sultanate of Oman is a possible position to take, so I would have thought Agema wouldn't do anything themselves to jeopardise a possible future playing position that could bring in revenue.

I can't see a GM sacrificing a playing position lightly, though allowing another paying player(s) to capture and absorb a non-played playing position is a recognised occurrence in the game - but something that players would no doubt initiate, which it sounds like Hispania or Persia have not done, individually or in concerted effort together.

But, looking at my own (Swashbuckler) position in Game 8, Agema has pushed for my character to venture to Iceland - a territory of Denmark-Norway - as part of a 'British' Royal Society project. I don't think the Danish player is keen for my trespassing - there was an article in the newspaper stating such - and the British player isn't keen, either, for me, an Englishman rpg character, to go off with the Royal Society and disrupt diplomatic relations further than they currently are between Denmark and Britain. But Agema controlled npc's are still all for the Royal Society expedition, so seem keen for the friction that the event could possibly cause. In this case it might be that the GM wants to pour fuel on the fire and give the TGOK players a spanner in the works for them to work through.

Getting back to Oman, I'd favour the opinion that there's a player controlling the issue. Either through direct control, or as foreign agent(s).

I would consider a different option.

I think the sultanate of Oman, in your game, is actually a NPC controlled position.

I think that it is extremely hard to be invisible as a player in a game. Not only because the game itself force you to somehow interact with others, but also because it seems to be quite impossible to go unnoticed for years also in the game newspaper.

My opinion is that Richard has somehow a plan for any position, that goes on if unplayed. I think this could be constituted by both major and secondary goal or actions the nations try to achieve on a calendar based agenda.

This, of course, would provide an excellent experience also for players (like you) who took a playing position not near any other players. You've been focusing on yourself for a long time, and this has ( i think) "activated" some of your neighbours.

I think in game 9 as Russia (everybody is aware of that in the forum) this has happened to me at least 2 times. One with the old believers (pumped by a player, but actions were native) and one with the Oirat Hordes, that i think are unplayed.

I think this also adds "pepper & spice" to the game, keeping player from annoying themselves.

Rowzy, in your example we should consider also that communication and awareness methods in 18CEN were far different from now. Now we have a bunch of unharmful dudes with little/no weapons and strange instruments walking in no valuable areas (no naval supply depots, no whaling depots) is not worth providing any alert. (iceor volcanoes will kill those mad mes). No cell signals, wifi cameras or so. Simply i think any danish officer in iceland would even consider is taking note of you in his captain's log is even worth the cost of the ink

Jason wrote:I'm taking the unusual step of asking advice on a specific situation I'm facing as I am puzzled by quite what is going on.  Think its generally known I am playing Persia in G8.  It was a position that has clearly been vacant for some time (possibly unplayed since the start of the game) so have spent a couple of years organising the position, sorting out its infrastructure, preparing its army, creating a navy, etc.

As I've not been in a position to do anything, I have basically played nice with everyone.  In the game Hispania has been fighting Oman and been doing pretty well.  I had assumed Oman was an NPC.

Of late though Oman has been acting aggressively towards me, much more so than I would expect for a vacant position.  This has included
1) Selling captured Spanish liners and crews to my merchants (NOT to me I hasten to add) at Muscat, a Persian city on the Omani coast.
2) Also at Muscat, opening an army camp and starting to raise troops.  My orders to have the camp closed were resisted.
3) There are now Omani troops on the streets of Muscat.

I haven't until recently had any troops at Muscat as I thought Oman was an NPC and frankly I had to concentrate my time and resources elsewhere.  The aggressive nature of Oman however has made me wonder what is going on.  I have (as far as I can recall) not threatened Oman or done anything to provoke them.  I have also never encountered a situation before where an NPC has provoked me like this (at least without provocation from me).  It seems I am being moved into a position whereby I have to declare war.

I can only see three possible explanations
1) Oman is in fact active and has just kept an incredibly low profile, even during its war with Hispania and done nothing to indicate there is a player in post.
2) Oman is inactive but a foreign power has a spy or spies there who have taken control of the country and so someone is trying to wage a war by proxy against me
3) Oman is inactive and in fact its Richard trying to provoke me into declaring war.

(1) seems possible but unlikely, I think even with the most ninja player there are giveaways in game that would have suggested it was an active position before now.
(2) might be possible, not sure I have heard of it before though.
(3) is not something I have heard happening before either, but given none of the other options seem likely either...

I don't think I am breaking any forum rules by asking this, but what do others think? I'm not really in a position to fight and win a war with Oman yet but given their behaviour I am at the stage where if I don't declare war, I will lose the city by default.  Fighting Agema is very different to fighting another player and that is why I am being a bit hesitant.

By the way, i luckily have a couple of Persian colleagues and i asked their advice on what to do. While one was not exactly aware of why Oman and Persia are bordering somewhere (and will be from now on ignored for our purposes) the other strongly suggest to "conquest Oman, Conquest Turkey, affiarm Persian superiorit over the world", but then added " this is of course the blue project, to begin i strongly suggest to consolidate persian rule over muscat. Estabilish a safe border of abot 200Km raddius around the city would be a good way to secure this objective".

After thinking about it, I suspect the pirate position is using its agents/influence to do this.

We do have pirates in game, and I suspect the position is responsible for this.

Maybe try & broker a deal with the Sultan to lease the area from him for a given amount of time/money. That way if you open negotiations you get more of a feel if as to if it is NPC or player. At least gives you a bit of breathing space to consider your options

I would have to agree with Deacon that it could be a pirate faction involved. Agents can cause quite a bit of action in the NPC side of the house. All evidence points to the fact the the Omani are indeed NPC. One knows how super human the NPC armies can be!

Thanks for the ideas and advice folks

The pirates idea does make sense but I will consider offering to lease the city to Oman

No burning and such... I am shocked and rather dismayed that there will be no bloodshed.

Well, if this had happened in about a year of game time, when my planned Muscat garrison would have been in place, I'd already be stringing up every adult male in Oman

Seems like someone needs some resources to carry out such an attack. (getting out the checkbook)

More trying to play catch-up without spending a fortune on extra orders each turn

Feeling the pain for sure!

Ref the situation between Oman & Persia if its not a player run Oman my guess would be:

1) Agents of a foreign power trying cause trouble between Persia and Oman

2) Nothing much bad happening in Persia so to make things more "interesting" Richard is bringing out the old Sunni V Shia dispute.

- Whenever Rumelia got too peaceful with nothing to do but go to the races or the theatre it always seemed to be times like this that some Shia inspired Religious nutter would have a go at the Layerbey or bandit raids would start.  Assume that the same type of thing may effect Shia Persia.

- Jahann Keli Beg  my Timurid Shah of Persia, King of Kings, Later Great Moghul never had this problem's of this nature because he was a Good Muslim who went on Pilgrimage to Mecca and was inclined to the mystic Sufi traditions rather than playing up the Sunni/Shia divide.  He even invited Sunni Afghans to join him on Jihad over the Hindu Kush.

- Why dont you invade India and invite the Oman's along against the idiol worshippers?  Ok so it will give you a lot of other problems instead but a true Ghazi hardly ever gets internal & religious problems of this nature.  It when you make peace and send some time in your Palace that life becomes dangerous and people try and knife you.........much safer on campaign:D

To be honest Stuart, still playing catchup as Persia, been playing it for 2 (game) years and a lot of my time and effort has been spent on just sorting its army (a bloody mess when I took it on), creating a small navy, developing infrastructure (or creating it, none existed)...not quite ready to unleash the hordes yet

Have you started on a Persian rug industry, yet?

"Ideally suited for use by foreign ambassadors. Allowing for sweeping under the carpet any circumstances that they don't want discussed, even allowing for a swift get-a-way when used as a magical flying carpet. Buy your Persian Rug, today. You'll not be disappointed. Note: one stitch will always be faulty - as only God is perfect."

Also good for pulling out from underneath people...

In all seriousness, I hadn't considered investing in Persian rugs...that's a great trade investment idea

I was going to suggest (in jest) a cat stud farm to develop the Persian breed. But then I looked on Wikipedia and saw it was perhaps quite an interesting subject (says the chap trying to breed Rhodesian Ridgeback dogs at Rozwi). Something for the women to have to keep themselves amused with, and might even keep the rodent population down so helping grain storage, disease prevention, and general maintenance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_cat

Or you could have a character who has a penchant for taking his Persian cat with him where ever he goes, gently stroking it as he delivers threats or works on his evil schemes. Can't think where I might have gotten this idea from?? That would teach those naughty Omanis!

Well, Persian cats as a luxury item are no dafter than some of the Chinese trades I've developed over the years I guess...

Rhodesian Ridgebacks would be an interesting development, my brother used to have one. Found it bloody scary! Well you can have wardogs in game...can imagine a Rozwi army with a few packs of those in the vanguard causing havoc where ever they went.

Nexus06 wrote: By the way, i luckily have a couple of Persian colleagues and i asked their advice on what to do. While one was not exactly aware of why Oman and Persia are bordering somewhere (and will be from now on ignored for our purposes) the other strongly suggest to "conquest Oman, Conquest Turkey, affiarm Persian superiorit over the world", but then added " this is of course the blue project, to begin i strongly suggest to consolidate persian rule over muscat. Estabilish a safe border of abot 200Km raddius around the city would be a good way to secure this objective".

Been thinking, based on what you said above...

As far as I can determine Persia didn't hold Muscat in the early 1700s, think it did in the 1740s when Persia invaded and held Oman for a bit.

Is it possible Richard has realised the historical error and is trying to correct it?

Jason wrote:

Nexus06 wrote: By the way, i luckily have a couple of Persian colleagues and i asked their advice on what to do. While one was not exactly aware of why Oman and Persia are bordering somewhere (and will be from now on ignored for our purposes) the other strongly suggest to "conquest Oman, Conquest Turkey, affiarm Persian superiorit over the world", but then added " this is of course the blue project, to begin i strongly suggest to consolidate persian rule over muscat. Estabilish a safe border of abot 200Km raddius around the city would be a good way to secure this objective".

Been thinking, based on what you said above...

As far as I can determine Persia didn't hold Muscat in the early 1700s, think it did in the 1740s when Persia invaded and held Oman for a bit.  

Is it possible Richard has realised the historical error and is trying to correct it?  

Being the ever benevolent Grand Vizier in Anatolia I would say don't invade Turkey, but I may just...a little tiny bit...be a bit biased. But Muscat is indeed a strange situation. Perhaps Aladdin and Genie could help you out.

Don't worry, no intention of invading my friends to the West!

I know Richard has tweaked how the Portuguese/Spanish Inquisitions were staffed/managed during the course of game 8 to be more historical, so it's possible that this is Richard trying to shift Muscat back to Omani control.

Personally, I wouldn't give it up without suitable inducement. Maps are set at the start of the game and historical or not, it's yours.