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Help, please. If possible?

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Rozwi_Game10
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Help, please. If possible?

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:08 am

I am aware that this is a 'how long is a piece of string' question, but I really could do with some tips on the subject of improving the financial returns and Economic Health of Rozwi.

Due to the problems of:
A) being so far, geographically removed from most markets and not having access to deep sea shipping
B) suffering from Famine and the subsequent deaths
C) operating a number of military units/armies that cost a large portion of the amount of the current December income
D) having no, improved and formalised trade practices in place to increase returns

Rozwi's EH is at 4, and although we can pay the upcoming financial upkeep for 1702-1703, we won't be able to maintain the status quo of the position from April 1703+ unless things change for the better.

You're, probably, going to tell me to deactivate the military, but I can't do that at present and the military is, really the be-all-and-end-all of my Rozwi. Without it and it's (hopeful) success Rozwi would be boring to play.

What I'm after, is seeing if there's any advice on the matter of improving my lot economically.

I'm going to have to ask my in-game advisors for help, but we all know that usually is a mixed bag of good and neutral advice. And sort out some better trading deals with my closest neighbours.

Possibly there's nothing that can be said to aid me, as I obviously can't give the details of Rozwi's position away to my fellow players. I will say that I am generally clue-less when it comes to the economy in the games I play of LGDR/TGOK, so I will need to figure something out and then play through it.

I know there's some advice already posted on the forum, so I'll go back and read them through.

Cheers,
Roy
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Jason
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Jason on Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:22 am

Must admit it's something I struggle with quite often. I know some have said tax cuts can help boost the economy and lead to greater income as a result-others will be able to give you more info and how successful it is

I must admit I'm not fully aware of your trade and industry setup, even in-game, but is there anything you have/produce that might interest other players in game, enough to make them come to you to trade/buy? Slaves for example? Think you've said before there aren't any appropriate resources to exploit, even with foreign assistance (e.g. mining)

Nexus06
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Nexus06 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:49 am

I mate, Rowzi is not the best position i know but, as long as i'm not playing G10, i think there would be no spoiler alert issue Smile

Anyway.

You've got Gold Mining and polycromy pottery if i'm not wrong, cattle, surviving agriculture, and that is quite all.

I have no idea if EH is a relative or absolute element, but should indicate the performace of your economy (and tax/trade performance) regardless of the level of development.
I would then go for basic issue:

1. how is structured your society? You have warrios and slaves (or farmers) but is the merchant class existing? For example in my russia i have no merchant class, thus i have to co-opt foreign merchants (baskirian, nogay, armenan) and accept the western traders (who sells goods far too expensive for my population).
2.If you are a warrior society probably economy is not the point, as pillage and tributes should constitute a good part of your income (farmers pay taxes, warriors are costs).
3. If you want to expand your nation's hh consider improving internal comunication, but first there should be food surplus. Maybe use army to collect food from hunting and fishing (outside your kingdom) until a surplus is obtained. The surplus allow the creation of a merchant class and an artisan class who could live out of their job, then you can implement methods.
4. mine bullions, and sell them on the coast to persian, chinese and portuguese.
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:20 pm

Thanks Jason and Luca. You've both pretty much hit the nail upon the head and (though I'm very conscious of giving out Rozwi's woeful details) what you've both described is either the implemented strategy, or that which is being discussed at present (Jason, seemingly you're out of the loop! Very Happy).

No, one thing that I must remember is that Rozwi as a nation is less than 20 years old in the game (as far as I know the land was conquered during the very late 1680s, if I remember correctly) and so I really must realise that I'll have to grow the merchant class as Nexus has said.

Thanks again, reading your advice has given me a couple of ideas that I'll put forward to my new Trade Minister.

- Taxes. I was considering lowering the tax on commoners, since they're the people who have suffered most during the famine and presumably can't afford to buy the available food that has risen in price. I'll give it a go and see what happens ... if it fails I'll just have to invade somewhere!
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Deacon on Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:11 pm


My advice is "screw the economy, conquer and kill!"

Ok, that's probably overstating it, but for many smaller nations, the path to greatness is to focus on what you can seize, not improving the economy immediately.

If your military is that large, you may be starving the economy of investment to grow. That's fine, just cope with it for now.

My only warning is that any nation that ends up with negative recruits for whatever reason should act to fix that. It is a real drag on the economy!

Stuart Bailey
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Stuart Bailey on Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:18 pm

Hi Roy,

Ref Economic thoughts:

If I was running a African Tribe the five main Investment area's would be:

- Cattle, Fishing, Gold (from rivers not deep mines), Ivory and Slaves........and perhaps later look at growing tobacco or Cotton.

In order to improve the cattle think you need to try a Royal Stud farm and Vets (or Cattle Witchdoctors). Plus pinching prize beasts from rivals.

Ref the Ivory I would ask European Merchants like the Dutch Merchants at the Cape for some rifled Muskets for your hunters.

Ref raiding rivals tribes think you can either sale captives to raise funds or match your investments with batches of 1000 slaves which doubles your return. Other option is to re-settle them on your land but paying much higher rates of tax than normal subjects.

One option you may like to look at is appoint a NPC merchant slaver (probably a Arab or a European) to act as your factor and see if he can get better prices by direct sales. If you can find Rich Players or NPC positions in need of recruits they will often pay really premium rates for trained fighting men they can use as Military recruits.

At one stage Rumelian Slavers were flogging Janissaries for 40 a head & Mamluke Ghulams for 50. Oddly option of honourable Military Slavery with may make it easier for you to take whole units captive.
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:53 am

Thanks everyone.

I have to be honest and admit that what you've all said is pretty much what is either in-place, or has been suggested to me in game by the player-nations I'm already in contact with (as well as a few other ideas). But it is reassuring to read what you've said and spot the similarities - so, hopefully, I'm doing something right?

I think I'm being too impatient (though having a great, big military draining the pot of gold isn't helping) and need to wait a year or two more before I see any returns from what's been put in place, or will be. A couple of military campaigns to claim some rewards, then hopefully I can reduce the active units by half and start to slowly build up the treasury balance.

Cheers Smile
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Jason
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Jason on Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:43 pm

I think there are (perhaps surprisingly) few options when it comes to improving the economy. It's new industries, improving technologies associated with those industries, breeding better farm animals or playing around with taxes. Having said that, new industries and improving what you have does give you a lot of options. Now if you have gold on your land and a European power is willing to help you get it out (you know, a nice friendly European power who have no colonies anywhere near you and so clearly aren't trying to take advantage of you... Wink ) in return for a profit split arrangement...

In regards taxes, I hope others will jump in and either agree with me or correct me, you might be better off looking at reducing taxes on your nobles instead of commoners. This seems a bit counter-intuitive (at least to me) but my understanding is the nobles get their wealth through the work of the commoners...so if the nobles need to pay you less, they need to demand less from the commoners working their land, etc, so everyone has more money to spend elsewhere...leading to greater gains. I realise the Rozwi aren't a cash economy like Europe Smile but I assume in terms of game dynamics (assuming my initial reasoning is correct) the benefit is the same.
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Help, please. If possible?

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:03 pm

Yes, I had read that idea about 'the nobles and not the commoners' elsewhere on this forum. I'm going to crunch the numbers this weekend and have a good old think about it all - plus reread all the rules books and supplements for hints. I'm all for trying things in the game, so will reduce somebody's tax level and then see what happens over the long term.

1701 income returns for Rozwi are a 60/40 split, with tax providing just that little bit extra. If our EH had been 5, then I reckon it would have been a 50/50 split. And EH 6, seeing a 40/60 split favouring trade income. Maybe its best to not mess around with tax and work on other methods of raising the EH score - easier said than done, though!

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