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Game 10

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tkolter
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Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:04 am

Okay did some research slavery wasn't illegal in the Empire among Christians and so I might just build on custom and tradition rather than banning slavery radically. I'm thinking these changes.

1. No slavery or trading Christians to be deemed anyone of the Empires faith, Coptics, Lutherans and Orthodox Christians it will be a hanging offense. Jews and Muslims inside the Empire at birth and who are subjects will be included unless they willingly enter the state of slavery under proper terms made before three elders.

2. Those who sell a child to someone must educated that child in literacy, mathematics and a area of work and free them when they reach fifteen providing 1 ashrafi in coins, a new suit of clothing, water flask, one rucksack with food for three days and a knife or other weapon.

3. Those who convert sincerely to the official Christian faith of the Empire must be freed after seven years after public conversion the same terms apply as under 2, two priests or monks must support this.

4. Slave raiding will be a death penalty offense into the borders of the Empire from outside the Empire.

Something along those lines.

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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:47 pm

Gents,

I need a bit of help I seem to have mislaid a news paper from one of the more recent turns, it was the one that had all the stuff about the coronation of Prince Philip in Madrid, I can't seem to find it anywhere, it must have happened because in this turns paper he is using the title of king, odd that I missed it.

Also thought the Pope was going to decide who got crown in Spain, oh dear, it must be all the Weizen bier getting to me again.

So who is actually in charge in Flanders? seems a matter of some debate.
Maybe the new Grand Duchy of Pondicherry will lay claim to Flanders.

Has the GNW been postponed due to bad weather & one of the home teams being on a ski holiday in the Alps, but no fear maybe the GEW is about to reignite, some dangerous road building seems to have sparked off a major diplomatic incident.

Another Papal fiefdom attacked in Italy, will the Pope act? Ex-communication at dawn.
Is there a rule entry as to the status of Papal fiefs, what control over them the Papacy actually has?
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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:53 pm

J Flower wrote:Gents,

I need a bit of help I seem to have mislaid a news paper from one of the more recent turns, it was the one that had all the stuff about the coronation of Prince Philip in Madrid, I can't seem to find it anywhere, it must have happened because in this turns paper he is using  the title of king, odd that I missed it.

Also thought the Pope was going to decide who got crown in Spain, oh dear, it must be all the Weizen bier getting to me again.

So who is actually in charge in Flanders? seems a matter of some debate.
Maybe the new Grand Duchy of Pondicherry will lay claim to Flanders.

Has the GNW been postponed due to bad weather & one of the home teams being on a ski holiday in the Alps, but no fear maybe the GEW is about to reignite, some dangerous road building seems to have sparked off a major diplomatic incident.

Another Papal fiefdom attacked in Italy, will the Pope act? Ex-communication at dawn.  
Is there a rule entry as to the status of Papal fiefs, what control over them the Papacy actually has?

I've checked my newspapers and can't find any reports of the coronation. Maybe it was a quiet family affair, no press, that sort of thing? So quiet even those taking part didn't realise it was a coronation? Or maybe he is trying to save the Pope the bother of deciding things by just assuming he would get the title? I mean the Pope has a lot on his mind, what with those sermons he has to write; I do hope some stayed awake when that last one was read out in church, I fell asleep twice when reading it...ok...that might have been due to the whisky I was having at the same time...but then when it comes to reading Popish ramblings, a whisky seemed a good idea...

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go and explain the non-linear theory of time to some Scottish MPs...
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Rozwi_Game10
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:10 am

J Flower wrote:I need a bit of help I seem to have mislaid a news paper from one of the more recent turns

Volume 3. Issue 9 3/4

Hope that helps!

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Jason
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:21 am

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:
J Flower wrote:I need a bit of help I seem to have mislaid a news paper from one of the more recent turns

Volume 3. Issue 9 3/4

Hope that helps!


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tkolter
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Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:02 am

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:
tkolter wrote:Abyssinia found coal, iron ore and a ore I think is copper

Lucky chap. Rozwi is envious! We've gold (don't know how to properly mine it). And there should be coal at Wankie (not that we've looked for it, yet), but, again, we'd have the same issue with the extracting it out of the ground method.

Stuart Bailey wrote:But what will a General Council of the Church make of it if the Pope starts to consult a Black Necromancer over matters of Church Law

The Changamire thought that one of the main articles of faith with the Christian Church was something to do with a dead chap coming back to life! Wink

Anyway, Rozwi's not too sure about this Christianity business. Something about eating the flesh and drinking the blood as a form of worship ... we aren't cannibals you know!

Europe sounds like its a place filled with evil magic and strange customs. Africa is far safer for us poor Black chaps   elephant

[the above is obviously written in-character, is not meant to offend Christians, but illustrate what, possibly, the Africans would think of other religions]

Try this kind of mining to start since I plan to.
Artisan Mining

I plan to tell my people to mine the coal and iron ore and pay the taxes on it and can make a profit which they can use to better themselves, and the government will arrange to sell the smelted iron bars, keeping it low key and when copper is available will do the same its a valuable ore and not too valuable and keep the mining and processing low level. My take on it for several years that will be good enough.  ^_^

EDIT: I'm going to try this assign 1000 recruits and 10,000 ashrafis for the coal, iron ore and when verified I hope copper to Artisan Mining, that for each one. To provide manpower, materials and cover start up costs doing that in addition to Trade in these as a separate order and see what happens. If it works I might get a decent income for the investments and not need to make it a mining industry via companies until the easy to get ores are not there and need to do other kinds of mining. It will be something to try anyway for a year and see what happens.

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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:11 am

Sorry to trouble you ladies & Gentlemen again, I still haven't found that newsletter, if anyone can send it in game it would be most appreciated.

Another thing to ask, is all this Papal fiefdom stuff,

As I understand it the Pope gives his Permission for other rulers to take over the running & control of Papal owned territories, if these are then attacked or in some other way given to another ruler without Papal concent, is the Pope allowed to throw his teddy in the corner & threaten them with the comfy chair & the soft cushions?
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:36 am

I think, in the 18th C, the Pope was supposed to have final say on the territories he let others rule in his name and like any landlord he would get annoyed if changes were made without his say-so.

In-game I suspect his power is a bit limited. Depends how much your position, and you as a player, would be affected by an annoyed Pope. I mean, if you're French, you might see Papal approval as being you don't mind having as long as it doesn't interfere with your plans...but if it does, well you can do without.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:17 am

Thanks tkolter.

Yes, that is what Rozwi's mining will be looking like. Miners scrambling around in narrow, cramped tunnels, using hand tools to scrape and chisel away at the earth and stone, looking for the easy to mine deposits. Very dangerous and not very productive work.
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Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:39 am

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Thanks tkolter.

Yes, that is what Rozwi's mining will be looking like. Miners scrambling around in narrow, cramped tunnels, using hand tools to scrape and chisel away at the earth and stone, looking for the easy to mine deposits. Very dangerous and not very productive work.

Another option announce you found a gold lode and open exploitation by anyone willing to come and get claims from small ones to ones for larger commercial operations s in large claims and work out how you want to get your cut and place an armed force there to act as security, Dragoons would be good. And let it well be mined that way. I like thinking outside the box but realistically you have three options Artisan mining (or some hybrid like I'm doing enhanced version with the nation adding workers and materials), let anyone mine it for you and can be anyone who comes in and you could even sell claims up front and make money from mining taxes or work to set up a mining academy and trading house for say gold and do it all domestically as a 'company' big scale. All work I would think.

And my view every year they should get better the older ones making it could take on workers and then learn by doing its not odd the 49ers did that in the American Gold Rush and they did well early on.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 pm

Wow... Welcome to forum topic GAME 10 - PART 2!

Game 10 is so good they had to create a second thread for us on The Forum [~~subliminal instructions~~ JOIN GAME 10 IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY ~~subliminal instructions~~]

####################################################################

Thanks again for the mining info tkolter Smile

I can't really go into details on how Rozwi is doing things, unfortunately. Bit of a secret process, and you never know if any pirates or spies are reading all this sword Plus, I don't want to give too much away on how many European nations are quietly working away in South East Africa (hint, there's more than you'd think!). ...What d'you mean, I'm trying to make Rozwi into Game 10's Cold War Berlin! Twisted Evil

lol!
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Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:08 am

Well I'm not revealing anything not overly expected fortifying my main cities and other economic actions aren't an issue. Military forces will also be upgrading with some plans. But well nothing sinister I can't afford right now to be sinister.
lol!


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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:14 pm

Looks like Game is in limbo until we get the announcement from the Pope, which will also tell us how much power the Pope actually wields as well, from the news letter it appears osme are willing to follow his lead whereas others ahve already decided to ignore is declaration.
The start of the 1703 game year could well bring the war we have all been waiting for. Luckily that the Maritime powers have the best front row seats whists the the Catholic world knocks seven bells out of itself.

Personally don't think French honour is as bad as some people think, the initial reading of the paper could be cause for concern in Paris, with the Flanders government going anti social, but it may have more to do with Philip transfering control to Louis, so that the people feel they should take orders from Louis rather than Philip, hence rather confudion than betrayal,
The fact that Flanders is a part of the HRR, & as part of Carlos will was left to Hapsburgs may also be a cause for concern amongst the governing body as well:-

I refer you to page 18 of Advice for Princes. "Under the Treaty of Munster 1648 the Spanish finally recognised the United Provinces as a state and the Dutch recognised the Netherlands as being Spanish. Under the terms of this treaty the United Provinces was no longer a part of the Holy Roman Empire. The Spanish Netherlands remained in the Holy Roman Empire but were still under the rule of the King of Spain." (The Treaty of the Pyrenees, 1659, did not change this).

So who can actually call the shots in Flanders?
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Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:20 am

The Emperor might need to provide an opinion on the Authority of the Pope he seems to need a lesson in piety God is above all pauper and King and Pope and his role should be to save souls for God not politics. His excellent Emperor consults with the people of faith but secular matters are his alone to make. If God wants to replace him then He will choose to do so.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:31 am

I've just been looking at who is where, around the Rozwi geographic area and spotted Mauritius listed as a VOC settlement over on Wikipedia (I know, don't trust everything you read on Wikipedia).

Is this correct, please. Mauritius; was it Dutch until 1710 and then became French in 1715? Looking at the Agema (East) World map I have Mauritius as listed as being French from 1700.

If Wikipedia is correct about the island, historically, being sparsely settled and controlled by the Dutch and then abandoned in 1710, what a missed opportunity for the French Corsairs to pop over from the Île Bourbon to enjoy themselves.

Fair enough, I understand how the game works and that geographic changes are made to balance gameplay (heck, Rozwi benefits from such, hugely!), so I'm not complaining.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:42 am

Looking at the Gazetteer, Mauritius is Dutch at the start of the game. It does say very much as Wiki, abandoned by the Dutch in 1710 and then occupied by France in 1715 or 1721
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:04 am

A number of the Caribbean colonies were 'losers' so they got abandoned.

I remember asking in game 8 about some of my colonies and were told they were money losers. I think they need a fair amount of investments in game to make them worth it.

Perhaps a bit off topic, but that's why according to my reading several of these were abandoned historically. I think water access was a big issue. Sugar, the normal crop there, requires a LOT.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:57 am

I hadn't realised that Deacon but guess it makes sense.  I think it's why Courland gave up on colonies in the late 17th Century, it just didn't pay (ok, and because everyone else kept either wiping their colonies out or nicking them)

Mind you, I expect the original inhabitants must have gone "couldn't you have worked it out before you wiped us out/enslaved us?"
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Re: Game 10

Post by Deacon on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:39 am

Realize maybe I was just a bit too brief and people might not get my point.

In game 8, early on I was asked to sell a colony in India. I asked on my turn how profitable my India colonies were to give me a sense of what I should ask for it if I decided to sell. I was surprised to hear that my India colonies as Portugal at game start were money losers. I figured that with trade they'd be pretty nice, but apparently not. This was, of course, before I had invested in them and in India trade in the game.

I did later research on some of the Caribbean colonies and islands and learned that several of them were abandoned or never colonized because they weren't that great. I had been considering colonizing some of them to add to my 'collection' but decided after my research that I should stick to what I already had and build that up.

So, I think the in-game lesson to draw from this is that colonies aren't some magic great thing. I imagine a lot of them, probably most,  start out in the money losing column. I think that's all fixable with investments and that as investments go a lot of colonies have a chance at a pretty fair return.  But if you aren't investing in things that help your colonies, they are probably going to stay money losers.

Somewhere in the rules it does say that having territory in a trade area helps you with trade returns there. So if you're investing in say Far East trade, you will benefit from having a colony there. But that colony stand alone may not be that great for you.

I had sort of assumed when I started the game that colonies were built in benefits for those positions. I now think a better way of looking at it is that they are built-in opportunities. You still have to do the work to make that opportunity pay off.
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Re: Game 10

Post by tkolter on Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:58 pm

I have one or to things going on no one likely even considered doing if a medium position. Well at least one should try new things don't you think?

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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:29 pm

Cheers Jason! I no longer have a copy of the Gazetteer, so cheers for the write up.

Whomever has Mauritius, I think they should mount a definitive expedition to make sure the Dodo is actually extinct. The last, accepted, sighting of the species was in 1662, so it is possible that the species could still be alive in the game! After all, we are rewriting history in TGOK and a species could hang on around the brink of extinction for 40 years or so. If we can change the course of certain events in the game, well, I think we should also have a 'happy news story' and also bring back the Dodo! Very Happy

tkolter. Definitely try anything. If Agema thinks an idea is too far out of the realms of historical possibility they'll let you know, one way or another in the game - a government minister looking very confused and totally misunderstanding an idea or instruction, with hilarious effect! scratch
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Re: Game 10

Post by Jason on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:22 am

OK, as our regular correspondents (Stuart and Rozwi) haven't had a chance to post,  a summary of the paper of November 1702, as seen from Edinburgh...apols in advance for the lack of the usual quality, blame it on the whisky...

The Duke of Berry has declared Flanders is now a French Duchy and is acting like he's in charge. Philippe D' Orleans might not agree but is being largely ignored.  Possibly the Flanders nobles and members of the Estate-General have differing views on who is in charge, possible the Duke is grasping at Straws...

The Dutch have sent military governors into some towns, on the basis they have a treaty with France that allows them to do so.  

Both English and Dutch governments are really not sure what to make of their new ambassadors from Flanders, given the uncertainty over the duchy.  King William, wearing his Dutch hat, was the model of politeness to his Flanders ambassador when saying he didn't recognise her but she got the hump and left quickly (it felt a bit like an inversion of Herny VIII and his Flanders Mare)

The Duke of Meckleberg has declined to send Sweden a thousand recruits a year, for the very selfish reason that he doesn't have many recruits and really needs the ones he's got.  Given something like 50K Swedish troops are currently holidaying in Germany,  perhaps the Duke feels Sweden has enough men already?

The King of Portugal has taken the radical approach, in his bid to become King of Spain, of being nice to the Spanish and not instantly nicked bits of their empire.  Whiles to certain powers this actually "engaging with the Spanish" idea must verge on a heresy that makes pinning a note to a church door seem minor in comparison, it does seem to have at least  not met with anger from the Spanish.  One of the Spanish governments, the one in Madrid, has announced its ending taxation on nobles and the church, and the peasants, due to the mess the economy is in.  Possibly this is partly a way of getting its name in the paper and reminding France and Austria that they exist.

Some people have responded to the Pope's demand that he be allowed to decide who sits on the Throne of Spain.  Frankly, why he thinks he'll be any more successful than Poland, who has put a lot of effort into finding a peace, is anyone's guess.  True he is spiritual head of the Catholic Church but that means bugger all to the Northern Powers and possibly the French who have their own church...and it's not like it's exactly unknown for a Holy Roman Emperor to send an army to Rome to make the Pope see the error of his ways when he does something the Emperor doesn't like...

Russia is unhappy with Poland over the Ukraine...there is a chance of peace but we might be heading for a slightly modified Great Northern War, which given Sweden's army being ready to fight further south, might be better known as the Great Eastern War...or would that be offensive to China, should it be the Great Bit-in-the-Middle War?

In Edinburgh, too much whisky was drunk and parliament messed up the orders things were supposed to be done in.

The French colony of Pondicherry has declared independence.  The local garrison is in favour of it apparently. Perhaps the local governor feels what with all the fun and games over Spain, now is the time for him to carve out an empire of his own, or is there a limit on the number of places allowed in the French Club...Flanders comes in so someone has to leave...perhaps the King of France will give the Corsairs (who seem bored at the moment) the task of retaking the city...or perhaps the Corsairs will go rouge, offer their services to the new nation as a ready made navy and begin a career as pirates in India?  Or perhaps Moghul India will decide now is a chance to grab a European colony?

Of course, we're all waiting for the December turn and seeing how much our economies have enlarged in the last year...
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:35 pm

Nothing happened in Africa this turn. Or if it did, I can't remember what it said about it in the newspaper.

Researching Dodo sightings was far more interesting elephant

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Re: Game 10

Post by J Flower on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:42 pm

I realise that we shouldn't do stuff linked to the game on the forum, but I have a little favour to ask players.

As you know UDP offered to build Dredgers for all those who requested them, as this was cheaper & quicker than sending missions, opening acadamies & waiting a year .

Sorry to say I have lost track of who ordered what (The file seems to have disappeared with my notes on) If players in game who have ordered dredgers get their ambassadors to enquire when their dredgers are ready stating number & type, I will be most grateful

sorry for buggering you all about.
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Re: Game 10

Post by Rozwi_Game10 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:03 pm

I have digital files and pen written ledgers for all my past turns and other ideas. Just in case something like that happens Sad

Means a lot of A4 pages in plastic sleeves in ring binders to store, but... study

Obviously Rozwi hasn't asked for anything.

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