To estabilish a new settlement?

Hi Lads,

hope to find all of you good in health and mood.

I was investigation into how to build a new settlement, and the only reference i've found is in Book of Revelation Pag.14, i quote:

"Settlers are considered to be in scattered settlements. The only way they can occupy a town is if a new town is funded first or one already exists; in these cases they can then add to the population of the town. To establish a new town requires 10,500 people; it costs £400,000 and takes two years to complete.
To settle an area of land, for example in a colonial area, you need to send 'people', by which we mean population people and not recruits. It costs a minimum of £10 per person and takes a year to resettle."

Now, while i find this perfectly agreeable to the European theatre (or Asian if you are a native asian country), i'm considering that, for example, an European country founding a settlement for example in the colonies, those numbers are a bit hight, aren't they?

Example

British player decides to create a new settlement in Jamaica. He has to ship 10,500 settlers and invest 400,000£? For Example, Kingston reached 10,000 units 60 years after it's foundation, and it was the most important town of British Caribbean.

So my question is: Is anyone aware of different numbers in creating a town, in terms of settlers and costs? Being colonial, i would say that a wise act is to build a fort. Any else structures you would suggest?

Thanks

Not sure where I picked up the info but I work on basis that a new town needs 2,500 recruits and 7500 other people.....women, children, slaves etc to make up the community. Cost £400,000 as you said and takes two years as you said.

Numbers may seem a high compared to many historic settlement voyages but the game generally rounds up. Very few Battalions would have 700 men in reality even if that was the paper strength and the number of wages being claimed.

I find it helps to send some food and seed grain with settlers so they do not starve before their first harvest as almost happened to the Pilgrim Fathers. So its worth while to build a granary and if on the coast a port. Some trained farmers amongst the settlers or settled in the surrounding area also seems to help.

As for what else to build with your new Town feel that this should be taylored to what type of place you want to be your new town to be for example the scores of new towns settled by the English and the Spanish in the C18 as the expanded into North America such as San Franciso, San Diago, Corpus Christi etc, etc are basically places were people live by farming, ranching and perhaps a little mining and fishing so you probably want them to have a Cathedral, a school, perhaps a fishing wharf and if you are really fancy a Opera House and sewers.

Other new "towns" esp on Coast of India, Africa and in Far East were basically Trade Posts on growth hormones think places like Madras or Hong Kong which started out as something like a fishing village if that. Then someone added a HEIC trade post and a fort and the next thing is something needs to be done about all the slums growing up around your fort and the anchorage is terrible. Basically think Trade and what will get merchants to come to yours rather than the rival down the coast?

In India or Far East this is probably an Exchange and a Port. But for Kingston its probably a Rum Distillery, a Brothel and a ship repair yard and a marked lack of a watch, wanted posters and law and order.

how many settlers can you raise ? As France in G9 I have now established around 15-20 new towns across continental North America.

All have populations of around 25,000 less some attrition against some locations. Stuart offers some strong advice - what I have also done is start by settling 15,000 people into the localised region. This takes a year. These tend to be farmers, woodsmen etc to provide for the town. Once settled, then begin construction on the town.

It means the whole process takes three years instead of two but the new towns for me appear to be thriving without too many issues.

All of the settlements have been built on major rivers, linked to the coast to make contact and movement of goods between them easier.

Im sure you could get away with less than 15,000 settlers in the region if you had too.

All valid and interesting points thanks.

Do you lose some settlers due to attrition in moving to the location and if you sent only 10,500 as per BOR does that mean the town does not exist?

Marshal Bombast wrote:All valid and interesting points thanks.

Do you lose some settlers due to attrition in moving to the location and if you sent only 10,500 as per BOR does that mean the town does not exist?

I can answer that. I've moved as UDP in G8 3000 settlers from Europe to America. Had them listed with sick-list on arrival but no losses so far.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Not sure where I picked up the info but I work on basis that a new town needs 2,500 recruits and 7500 other people.....women, children, slaves etc to make up the community.  Cost £400,000 as you said and takes two years as you said.

Numbers may seem a high compared to many historic settlement voyages but the game generally rounds up.  Very few Battalions would have 700 men in reality even if that was the paper strength and the number of wages being claimed.

I find it helps to send some food and seed grain with settlers so they do not starve before their first harvest as almost happened to the Pilgrim Fathers.  So its worth while to build a granary and if on the coast a port.  Some trained farmers amongst the settlers or settled in the surrounding area also seems to help.

As for what else to build with your new Town feel that this should be taylored to what type of place you want to be your new town to be for example the scores of new towns settled by the English and the Spanish in the C18 as the expanded into North America such as San Franciso, San Diago, Corpus Christi etc, etc are basically places were people live by farming, ranching and perhaps a little mining and fishing so you probably want them to have a Cathedral, a school, perhaps a fishing wharf and if you are really fancy a Opera House and sewers.

Other new "towns" esp on Coast of India, Africa and in Far East were basically Trade Posts on growth hormones think places like Madras or Hong Kong which started out as something like a fishing village if that.  Then someone added a HEIC trade post and a fort and the next thing is something needs to be done about all the slums growing up around your fort and the anchorage is terrible. Basically think Trade and what will get merchants to come to yours rather than the rival down the coast?  

In India or Far East this is probably an Exchange and a Port.  But for Kingston its probably a Rum Distillery, a Brothel and a ship repair yard and a marked lack of a watch, wanted posters and law and order.  
 

Thanks Stuart for the answer

i was hoping for a less costly solution, in terms of money and recruits to invest. While i completely agree when it comes to establish a settlement that will have to evolve into an actual town, let us say i'm founding St.Petersburg, or some Georgetown in Caribbean domains, i completely understand the need to invest such amounts of resources, and of course to support it with infrastructures and so.
But if you think about a small settlement in the Bay of Hudson, or Alaska, that it isn't meant to evolve into a real town, but at least a small village of 300 souls at best, there is no option there. I'm talking about, for example, a whaling station in Greenland.  
I was wondering this could be like the Fortress example. If you want to have a fortress you spend x£ and one year to build it. But if you want to establish forts in Louisiana, or in Siberia, to handle natives, you probably won't build a starwort, but just a wooden fortress, or a stone fort at best, saving some resources. The same, if you wish to build St.Petersbourg the figures are correct, but if you want to build something less...

I try to get straight to the point

Imagine i wish to replicate what the HBC did in ore in game period. I want to settle the HBC thus granting a fur monopoly to the company i've formed as trade investment in America (FUR), let us say 10,000£ and 1,000 recruits. I will build a post and a fort in the chosen area, near the river and the bay, as historically did. I will build a trading post (fur), and maybe place a couple of colonial dragoon sqd on patrol in the nearby area to secure it from indian aggressions.
Then, to follow the rule, i should place 400,000£ and 10,500 recruits.

or

Maybe i could invest in building a Factory(RULEBOOK:can be set up as a trade investment including recruits, and in basic terms means the labour has been centralised into large town-based places of work. Existing industryworks from small shops or houses over a wide expanse of area. Factories bring benefits of central production, but also potential social problems. Existing trade investments can be converted into factories directly, but because of the disruption half the trade value will be lost. It is better to makefresh investments into factories; as the proportion relatively invested into factories increases, the oldtrade becomes less and less) and a Model Industrial Village (RULEBOOK:These villages can be created as self- contained communities, but only where investments in factories have already been made. A model industrial village takes two years to create. Each has schools, sewers and good housing, costing a total of £100,000 to establish. Upkeep is considered to be funded out of factory profits.)

Thus this approach, seems o me faster and cheaper if compared to the one regarding building a town.

Agree? or am i missing some points?

Again Thanks

count-de-monet wrote:how many settlers can you raise ?  As France in G9 I have now established around 15-20 new towns across continental North America.

All have populations of around 25,000 less some attrition against some locations.  Stuart offers some strong advice - what I have also done is start by settling 15,000 people into the localised region.  This takes a year.  These tend to be farmers, woodsmen etc to provide for the town.  Once settled, then begin construction on the town.

It means the whole process takes three years instead of two but the new towns for me appear to be thriving without too many issues.

All of the settlements have been built on major rivers, linked to the coast to make contact and movement of goods between them easier.

Im sure you could get away with less than 15,000 settlers in the region if you had too.

Dear Count

thanks for the answer, i believe it is a correct way to develop "residential" settlements. I've come to the conclusion that i need to explore the best way to settle commercial settlements. I've made the technical mistake not to quote the both of you and Stuard in my answer, but only him, i offer my apology for that, and i kindly ask you too to look into my answer to Stuart's post and offer your advice on the last point.

Thanks

Luca

Luca,
I think its worth asking Richard to clarify. I think you can get away with smaller settlements. In my experience as France I am beginning to establish stronger settlements on the coast of West Africa and due to some attrition in transit, the type of settler and local restrictions some of the locations are ending up with settlements less than the 10,000 default in the rules. Therefore I think Richard is allowing smaller settlements in the colonies.

I think this would fit in with your plans for this to be more of a commercial than a residential strategy.

As UDP, with a smaller recruit base I would add Ive never used recruits - always settlers from the general population with incentives to emigrate. That may help too.

Paul

Hi Luca;

I have tried smaller settlements as Russia in G7 , basically had recruits to help build the town & then are going to build it, on my listing it appears like this:-

Taganrog; Population NIL.
Fortifications.
New town ({SL#2} 3,000) – ready June 1716.

So the 3,000 recruits will become the population. Had success as well by using the families of troops to settle a town, the Army moves in & Garrisons a spot & families then populate the towns. I think I have read somewhere each soldier has an average of 4 family members to accompany him.

My view is that:

a) You follow the 2500 recruits 7500 extra people and £400,000 cost - taking two years rule and probably some extra outlying settlers  if you are looking to establish a fully fledged Colony like say New Amsterdam, Boston, Charlestown, Cape Town etc.

Basically this would represent full European settlement of a fairly empty area.

Classic historic example of this is the British Settlement of the East Coast of America.  And I note from above that G9 France is clearly diverting from the fur trade based development of new France to make it more like the British example.

b) But many "settlements" were not fully fledged colonies but were basically trade posts or mission stations.  Normally in area's were the climate was not suitable for full European settlement or the locals might object to you pinching their good farmland:

- Think a Hudson Bay trade post best shown as a Trade Misson and perhaps a Fort.  If you are not already involved with trade my feeling is invest say £50,000 and 1,000 recruits in North American fur trade then build Trade Mission/Fort as bases/locations for your fur traders to operate out off.

- Greenland Whale Station also shown as an investment in Whaling and a trade post.  If you want to go into real detail add a patrol of Whalers and perhaps a "factory" to process the whales and perhaps a port/repair yard to service your ships.  Note that Greenland Whale Stations are really hard to reflect in game since they were only occupied for part of the year and most players would not wish to mess around to this degree.

c) Third option is to set up your trade post/fort and then after they are established set up a recruiting station or send out recruiting parties and attract locals which was how cities like Bombay, Hong Kong and Madras developed.  Think in one game of Glori someone attacked a player run HEIC and got a nasty shock when they found its Sepoy Army was about 80 years in advance.

PS Esp if you are playing the French attacking the HEIC in scabble is a total no-no!  Since they are are fine spiffing chaps and masters of the art of Zen-Cricket

J Flower wrote:Hi Luca;

I have tried smaller settlements as Russia in G7 , basically had recruits to help build the town & then are going to build it, on my listing it appears like this:-

Taganrog; Population NIL.
Fortifications.
New town ({SL#2} 3,000) – ready June 1716.

So the 3,000 recruits will become the population. Had success as well by using the families of troops to settle a town, the Army moves in & Garrisons a spot & families then populate the towns. I think I have read somewhere each soldier has an average of 4 family members to accompany him.

Correct, each soldier has a family of 4 elements, I cannot remember which rule book state this but I’ve read it yesterday. I’ve also done this whit above in g9, since initial population listed was 0 I’ve resettled there 3000 recruits, and hoped for the best.
I was considering to garrison the town/fort and patrol the area (don’t know if possible) but I have no experience that this will allow people to establish as soldiers family in the settlement.
So if I’m correct you simply stated that 3000 settlers were ordered to start building a city around the fort of Taganrog, correct?

J Flower wrote:Hi Luca;

I have tried smaller settlements as Russia in G7 , basically had recruits to help build the town & then are going to build it, on my listing it appears like this:-

Taganrog; Population NIL.
Fortifications.
New town ({SL#2} 3,000) – ready June 1716.

So the 3,000 recruits will become the population. Had success as well by using the families of troops to settle a town, the Army moves in & Garrisons a spot & families then populate the towns. I think I have read somewhere each soldier has an average of 4 family members to accompany him.

This is a very historical Russian form of settlement used to settle the Kuban, Siberia etc.  As added bonus troops and families who settled in such area's gained Cossack Status which was a social/legal improvement for most rank and file.

The French also tried something something like this in New France were Troops who had completed period of service were given land and other incentives to retire too the colonies.  Many actually found this no fun at all and went native taking up trapping and fur trade rather than farming.

English settlement in North America/West Indies in G7 also seems fairly historic - they have sent all their Religious extremes and convicts.  Probably perfect recruits for Prussia now they are being offered a home in Eastern Europe if American colonies return to Jacobite rule after the end of the Russian lease.

Look forward to building of New Bristol and Bath-on-Oder

Stuart Bailey wrote:My view is that:

a) You follow the 2500 recruits 7500 extra people and £400,000 cost - taking two years rule and probably some extra outlying settlers  if you are looking to establish a fully fledged Colony like say New Amsterdam, Boston, Charlestown, Cape Town etc.

Basically this would represent full European settlement of a fairly empty area.

Classic historic example of this is the British Settlement of the East Coast of America.  And I note from above that G9 France is clearly diverting from the fur trade based development of new France to make it more like the British example.

b) But many "settlements" were not fully fledged colonies but were basically trade posts or mission stations.  Normally in area's were the climate was not suitable for full European settlement or the locals might object to you pinching their good farmland:

- Think a Hudson Bay trade post best shown as a Trade Misson and perhaps a Fort.  If you are not already involved with trade my feeling is invest say £50,000 and 1,000 recruits in North American fur trade then build Trade Mission/Fort as bases/locations for your fur traders to operate out off.

- Greenland Whale Station also shown as an investment in Whaling and a trade post.  If you want to go into real detail add a patrol of Whalers and perhaps a "factory" to process the whales and perhaps a port/repair yard to service your ships.  Note that Greenland Whale Stations are really hard to reflect in game since they were only occupied for part of the year and most players would not wish to mess around to this degree.

c) Third option is to set up your trade post/fort and then after they are established set up a recruiting station or send out recruiting parties and attract locals which was how cities like Bombay, Hong Kong and Madras developed.  Think in one game of Glori someone attacked a player run HEIC and got a nasty shock when they found its Sepoy Army was about 80 years in advance.

PS Esp if you are playing the French attacking the HEIC in scabble is a total no-no!  Since they are are fine spiffing chaps and masters of the art of Zen-Cricket

Thanks Stuart,

i think i'll try the unconventional way and see what happened, so i'll go whit option B.

Luca

Stuart Bailey wrote:

J Flower wrote:Hi Luca;

I have tried smaller settlements as Russia in G7 , basically had recruits to help build the town & then are going to build it, on my listing it appears like this:-

Taganrog; Population NIL.
Fortifications.
New town ({SL#2} 3,000) – ready June 1716.

So the 3,000 recruits will become the population. Had success as well by using the families of troops to settle a town, the Army moves in & Garrisons a spot & families then populate the towns. I think I have read somewhere each soldier has an average of 4 family members to accompany him.

This is a very historical Russian form of settlement used to settle the Kuban, Siberia etc.  As added bonus troops and families who settled in such area's gained Cossack Status which was a social/legal improvement for most rank and file.

The French also tried something something like this in New France were Troops who had completed period of service were given land and other incentives to retire too the colonies.  Many actually found this no fun at all and went native taking up trapping and fur trade rather than farming.

English settlement in North America/West Indies in G7 also seems fairly historic - they have sent all their Religious extremes and convicts.  Probably perfect recruits for Prussia now they are being offered a home in Eastern Europe if American colonies return to Jacobite rule after the end of the Russian lease.

Look forward to building of New Bristol and Bath-on-Oder

Regarding Cossack status, have you tried to introduce Registered Cossacks or is that really too much?

Yes correct,
I needed recruits to build a Fortress & shipyard on the site, & afterwards gave orders for a town to be built as well, then the recruits are to settle there.
Intend to move troops in soon to use their families to create a larger population.
Seeing as there is a Shipyard there as well, maybe the Navy families can be used as well