G7....War declared

J Flower wrote:Bit confused by this Cricket game thingy, is it now going to become normal practice to head the ball to ensure more runs for the team?

Good point ... there's always someone who will find a loophole in any set of rules.

Although if you are so hopeless a batsman that you have to use your head as a bat, it is perhaps somewhat unlikely that you will be able to position your head to collide with the ball?

It was quite tricky to come up with the kind of compromise that was an evolution of the rules (at 1700) rather than a step change.  What I really wanted to avoid was batsmen wearing Cromwellian lobster-pot helmets which would have somewhat spoiled the image of the game.  Imagine King James dressed as a Cromwellian trooper on the cricket pitch - if that wouldn't be a gift for newspaper wags, then it is the kind of image that King Charles of Spain would send a painter to capture, reproduced in Spanish broadsheets with a suitably unflattering caption underneath!

Overall the bowling change should make the game more unpredictable - even a good batsman can be caught out by a ball that turns in an unexpected way - so my guess is that the players will have to work just that little bit harder and might well beat the Royal Team next year.

I was also considering sponsoring an international league, but so far have not generated much interest.  If the French can clear up the Desmarets problem then they might send a team.  A Russian team would be a challenge to play against (might have to invent a new way to get out ... beard before wicket).  A Swedish team could also lead to some rule clarifications - hit the ball then charge at the opposing end with bat brandished like a pike?  A Persian team ... I guess it depends on the uniform since I just can't imagine Persians running (far too refined)?  An Austrian team could bring their goat mascot?  I have repeatedly suggested that there should be a Spanish team, but King Charles has so far resisted - clearly Spaniards just don't have the character necessary to play the game.

Nov 1714 Gloire du Roi has shown up and for non G7 players here are the highlights:

1) As is traditional with G7 reports first off it has to be reported that the Russians have not lost any ships. Unlike the French who lost 37 and the Persians who lost 7. The vast majority of these are believed to have been taken by commerce raiders in African waters but the Persian Navy Great frigates Falakhan and Falaq may have gone down in the Indian Ocean as a result of damage sustained while running aground on a voyage of exploration in southern waters.

2) The ever growing influence of the Shah in Asia, India, Africa and now parts unknown to European Map printers and his statues as the greatest Ghazi of Islam has now pushed the Shah up to number four on the honour list and by the Czar over ruling his own ministers and pushing through most favoured status and 5% tax rates for Persian merchants. So Russian merchants in the far east can now buy French cargo and Persian carpets really cheaply.

3) The English Army has adopted the Russian "Petrine Musket" while the English Parliament has agreed to reduce the 50% punative tax rate on Austrian merchants down to a more normal 10%.

4) In other Austrian news the Russian's have offered a 10m guinea investment in the City Bank of Vienna and have also offered the Vienna Heavy Horse. Meanwhile the Austrian Government is seeking help from the Dutch Government to improve Navigation on the Danube and have followed the Dutch and Spanish in adopting the Pavia Code of Commercial Law.

5) In the wider Reich a lot of the Princes of the Holy Roman Empire seem to be considering and being generally positive about the Nordlingen Association Treaty being put forward by the Emperor Elect.

6) King Louis XIV of France spent month visiting the graves of his ancestors and putting flowers on them.

7) Kalmar Union of Sweden and Denmark seems to be making good progress but some people are upset because 3,000 criminals inc 300 killers awaiting execution and 1500 debtors have been pardoned without the govt paying their debts. In order to obtain all of this Royal Clemancy the criminal classes of the Nordic Lands have to agree to go and settle in Greenland.

The Elector of Prussia has donated a large part of his personal wealth to the Government and has also "convinced" many Junkers to do the same. He has also convinced the Church to start paying tax.

It seems that the reason why the Prussian state needs the extra funding is that with England now ruled by a sort off Catholic, the UDP defeated by France and the Swedes defeated by Russia in recent year's Prussia now see's itself as the leading Protestant power and the true defender of the faith.

9) With Genoa under French Military occupation and its Doge a captive of the French a new Government of the Republic has been set up in Madrid. This Government has leased the Island of Corsica to Spain on the understanding that Corsica will return to the Republic as soon as the French withdraw from Genoa and free the Doge.

10) Spanish trade companies paid out a pre Christmas bonus and dividends to shareholders in time for Christmas shopping. Such payments no doubt being very handy for anyone wanting to take their wife or sweetheart to see the new Opera by Apostolo Zeno about the Genoese Hero of the 1453 siege of Constantinople or buy a copy of the new Spanish Nautical Almanac including lunar tables for both the northern and southern hemisphere.

11) In the City of Genoa after yet more delay by the French which has resulted in charges of forgery and the like....The Papal auditor was finally shown the seized ledgers of the Bank of St George. By the light of a candle held aloft by the French investigator entries in invisible ink were revealed which showed that over a three year period the Bank had accepted £100m in stolen funds and for £5m in commission had transferred £95m to the Royal Bank of the Americas.

Nothing yet said by the Papal auditor but he like many is no doubt wondering a) Who this money came from? b) why is it shown in invisible ink and as stolen if a master criminal is trying launder his loot into clean money? c) why only 5% handling fee even on £2m in 1711 when every other bank charges 10% even for totally risk free transactions? d) If French treasury is claiming 40m louis stolen who has lost the other £60m and not noticed its been stolen? f) Why is a Italian Bank recording transactions in English pounds? Is this proof of a theft in England or proof that the stolen Louis d'Or from the French Treasury went to England first for conversion into pounds before being being laundered into Spanish Maravedis and how much did the French and English Bankers charge? g) If the Bank of St George earned £5m commission from handling stolen funds for ? where is this £5m?

12) The Russians are opening a recruiting post in the City of Genoa.

13) The Spanish Crown has offered to fund the rebuilding of the 25% of Genoa burnt to the ground by the French if the French withdraw from Genoa and restore the Doge.

13) The Grand Duke of Tuscany and accepted the several Spanish apologies and sent "lost" Spanish troops on their way with a warning "not to do it again"! The City of Mantua in particular has done very well out of Spanish General Staff errors and the Italian Queen of Spain trying to patch things up.

14) Indeed the Queen of Spain and the Czar of Russia would now seem to be in a friendly contest to be viewed as the most loveable Monarch in Europe. As well as their many contributions towards the Arts the Czar this month gave 8,434,500 tons of grain to the new Kulmar Union (cynics would say this is rather less than the Harvest surplus of the lands he took from Sweden) and a award to the Queen of Spain.

15) In Las Palmas Bishop Compton expressed his disbelief at the way the local authorities have closed down the investigation of the murder of Edward Coldstream and just executed the first suspect they came across. Bishop Compton would seem to believe the whole of Spanish Africa taking its lead from its Viceroy (Martel) is less interested in truth and justice than it was in getting Madrid off its back!

16) In a shocking development in George Town - the infamous Pirate Edward Teach of Bristol - Has gone public to announce that he is willing to testify against his long time foe Martel if Spain offers recompence for the damage caused to his property on Cat Island by the Spanish attack. Also recompence to the families of Andres Rocha and other's of his men killed by the Spanish. Finally he wants recompense for damage to reputation! Assume that this means turning Kings Evidence will badly damage his reputation with the brotherhood.

17) As part of his new "Honest Eddie" Blackbeard seems to have a new Public Relations manager in Daniel Defoe. Defoe is now on Cat Island writing a hachet job about Blackbeards foe Martel which he thinks will be a best seller and greatly embarrass the Spanish Government. Of course to do this he will have to get his book into Spain and past the censors of the Spanish Inquesition without them burning the book and probably the author as well.

A generally fair turn writeup from Stuart, although many more questions have been raised that he thinks:

1. As I read it the Doge and the government of Genoa is still operational - the Doge appears on the honour table, which he would not do if Genoa had been absorbed by France and the Doge had become a French puppet.  This is a very different situation to G10 where the King of Spain is being held hostage by the excommunicated Duke of Savoy, a renegade is trying to destroy what is left of Spain and there seems to be a monthly competition to present the most unhistoric and intellectually incoherent arguments to turn the game into a farce.  Clearly no decision has been taken over the future of Genoa in G7, while contrary to Spanish propaganda, the Genoese have stated that they are quite happy with the way the French are treating them.  If France jumped the gun by occupying Genoa, is Spain not equally guilty by occupying Corsica?

2. For the first time ever in G7, Spain has failed to convince a Papal representative to do his bidding      And this was despite the fact that it was Spain's idea to bring in the auditor.   To cover herself, Spain attempted to discredit the auditor's findings, presumably intending to withdraw those objections had the auditor not found any evidence against Spain!  Logically there can only be one explanation, and it isn't the smokescreen suggested by Stuart.  Every time evidence against Spain appears, the blame is thrown on mysterious and unknown 3rd parties, and then the month after yet more evidence appears.  How this finally plays out is anyone's guess, but if Spain is not involved then she should leave it to France and Genoa to sort out their differences.  Instead, Spain has involved herself by setting up a new faction, a rival 'government in exile' under the Genoese ambassador to Spain.  Does this get Spain a seat at any future negotiations or is it just a wrecking tactic?  I don't know and don't really care.

3. Releasing a 'huge sum of money' to the Portobello Company (HWIC/Martel, chief suspect in the fraud and general underhand dealings) and the Royal Bank of Americas (where the auditor found £95M of French money had been transferred), at the same time the auditor found the evidence can only suggest that Spain knew what was about to happen and is doing his best to disperse money now proven to be stolen.  While this may upset France, it is not the action of an innocent party.

4. I will not answer the 6 questions Stuart asks in point 11 since those replies are better made in game.  However, since the Bank of England was not operating when the fraud began, the assertion that any money went through England is clearly false.  The standard currency in the game is Pounds (indeed it was once an old game rule that expenditure on treasury sheets should be written in pounds (as prices in rule books are) to help speed up the processing of orders), so that the amounts are reported in a standard currency is not significant.  If England had suddenly found £95M deposited in her treasury then the first thing I'd have done is buy back America ... even Stuart would admit I would not have sent it on to a Spanish bank associated with Martel!  There comes a point when the excuses become so implausible that people stop laughing.

5. The appearance of Blackbeard is surprising, but welcomed by Jacobite Naval Intelligence.  After hiding from the Spanish for over a decade, Jacobite Naval Intelligence has tracked him down in under a year thus proving that if you want to find someone it helps if you look for them.  The most important point he makes is that he has admitted he has evidence against Martel.  We don't know what that evidence is yet, but Blackbeard would not have risked breaking cover unless it was particularly damning.  While Martel is sheltering behind Spain (or Spain behind Martel?), the same cannot be said to apply to Blackbeard and England.  Indeed, Jacobite Naval Intelligence has already proved that Blackbeard's reputation as a pirate is not as he claimed, and any evidence he gives will be against his own reputation.  So if we look at motivation (which pirate do we believe), Blackbeard has far more credibility than Martel and is the one taking the risk.  This clearly requires a great deal of thought.

What I find fascinating about the way G7 has developed this game year is that instead of finding the newspaper full of threats, posturing/propaganda and rather boring wars, we have the unfolding of a number of complex puzzles, based not just on history, but game history.  I have long argued that one of the strengths of LGDR is that it is not just a wargame, but is far beyond fighting.  G7 is certainly proving that with the right players, the various twists and turns are enjoyable for all players whatever the size of their position and commitment to the game.  It demands a new style of play, which I am still learning.  Perhaps the reason Stuart is struggling is because he is relying on the kind of tricks he has used in the past working in the future?  We have also had a number of new players join this game year, which perhaps has added to this change in style.  I am sure other games would benefit from similar changes, and if it is the result of various new players joining, then thank you for changing G7 in such a positive way.

Agema letting the world and the Spanish Navy know that Blackbeard is in George Town is just down right nasty.

Their are 76 places called or formerly called George Town. Mostly in North America but also in Europe, Africa, India, South and Central America.

Think a fair number of the 76 like George Town Alaska and George Town New Zealand would not have existed in 1714 but even if half of them can be crossed out why do I think Blackbeard and probably Martel are wearing 20 points of plot armour!

Question is are Forbin and the other French Corsairs in G10 under the same type of protection? Or is their protection level more like a diplomat in scabble?

Stuart Bailey wrote:Agema letting the world and the Spanish Navy know that Blackbeard is in George Town is just down right nasty.

Their are 76 places called or formerly called George Town. Mostly in North America but also in Europe, Africa, India, South and Central America.

Think a fair number of the 76 like George Town Alaska and George Town New Zealand would not have existed in 1714 but even if half of them can be crossed out why do I think Blackbeard and probably Martel are wearing 20 points of plot armour!

Surely with the new Spanish navy charts you shouldn't have that much difficulty?

Jacobite Naval Intelligence was also initially concerned about the number of George Towns, but thankfully has managed to narrow it down somewhat.  Many of the 76 are, as you point out, in rather obscure places or did not exist in 1714.  If we also rule out settlements outside of the Caribbean and those which were no more than tiny villages in 1714 then the list narrows quite dramatically to 2.  One of these is suspect since it was known by 2 names, so Jacobite Naval Intelligence is working on the basis that we have indeed identified the particular George Town where Blackbeard is hiding.  Obviously it would not be mentioned here since both Spain and France have a rather large bounty payable to whoever finds Blackbeard, and after all the work I've put in over the last year, I fully intend to claim it.

The funds could go towards an expedition in Loch Ness to track down the monster?

[quote="Papa Clement"]A generally fair turn writeup from Stuart, although many more questions have been raised that he thinks:

1. As I read it the Doge and the government of Genoa is still operational - the Doge appears on the honour table, which he would not do if Genoa had been absorbed by France and the Doge had become a French puppet.  This is a very different situation to G10 where the King of Spain is being held hostage by the excommunicated Duke of Savoy, a renegade is trying to destroy what is left of Spain and there seems to be a monthly competition to present the most unhistoric and intellectually incoherent arguments to turn the game into a farce.  Clearly no decision has been taken over the future of Genoa in G7, while contrary to Spanish propaganda, the Genoese have stated that they are quite happy with the way the French are treating them.  If France jumped the gun by occupying Genoa, is Spain not equally guilty by occupying Corsica?

Sorry. But the above reference to game 10 is untrue. It is your version not the actual existing version.

The King of Spain is Rodrigo. He has been King for a year now. He and Spain has signed treaties with France, Austria, Portugal and the Maritime nations of Scotland, the UDP and England. The king of Spain you refer too. Never sat on the throne of Spain and he was never accepted by its people’s or ruling council as king. It was a failed attempt by the Rome Pope and King of Austria to have his son on the Spanish throne.

I would also point out that you as the Rome pope player. Has a rival pope in Avignon. Which was set up as your Popedom was totally unacceptable to major catholic powers. France and Spain in game 10 no longer accept you as pope. How embarrassing that due to your play most of catholic Europe now follow a rival pope.

I would also point out. That if all games were played totally historically then there would be no point in playing. As every game would be exactly the same. Players pick and choose which parts of a nations history they wish to create. If any. Sorry I should have posted this on game 10 thread. But as the point was raised here I thought I should correct it here.

jamesbond007 wrote:Sorry I should have posted this on game 10 thread.

Or just deleted it?

Thankyou for the recognition of Russian naval efficiency, another loss free month. Now seems Persia is seeking to break Russian hold on the Muchsunk Trophy.

Interesting to read on The Rules & Clarification Section that Canoes & 42pdr cannon are mentioned in the same article. Obviously something the Russian admiralty needs to look into. Does having Alaska count as part of Canada, are the rules based on Geographical or political lines?

Got details of the Don Volga canal project, Cost 2,000,000 okay, recruits 15,000 okay can sort that Build time 25years!!!!!!! Bugger at current turn rates that's 5 Pandemics in the future.

J Flower wrote:Got details of the Don Volga canal project, Cost 2,000,000 okay, recruits 15,000 okay can sort that Build time 25years!!!!!!! Bugger at current turn rates that's 5 Pandemics in the future.

Time seems a bit excessive for a 63 mile long canal?

It may be possible to speed things up if you were to use Russian army units to help with the digging or blasting?

Perhaps suggest this and ask for a requote?

I do have another potential idea that could help, but that will have to be in response to an in game letter.

Papa Clement wrote:

J Flower wrote:Got details of the Don Volga canal project, Cost 2,000,000 okay, recruits 15,000 okay can sort that Build time 25years!!!!!!! Bugger at current turn rates that's 5 Pandemics in the future.

Time seems a bit excessive for a 63 mile long canal?

It may be possible to speed things up if you were to use Russian army units to help with the digging or blasting?

Perhaps suggest this and ask for a requote?

I do have another potential idea that could help, but that will have to be in response to an in game letter.

Well since its a Russian ship canal........4 months of the year site is covered in snow, 2 months taken up by the spring and autumn rains and the whole site turned into mud. Then knock off another couple of months per year due to labour/materials being diverted to work on managers own projects.....who would have believed a ship canal needed 160 Chandaliers from Paris.

So 25 Russian years = 8 years elsewhere.

In order to speed things up normal Russian methods would be to a) Employ another 30,000 serfs and/or b) Shoot some managers for corruption and import a load of German/Dutch engineers and a load of Irish diggers.

Papa Clement wrote:A generally fair turn writeup from Stuart, although many more questions have been raised that he thinks:

1. As I read it the Doge and the government of Genoa is still operational - the Doge appears on the honour table, which he would not do if Genoa had been absorbed by France and the Doge had become a French puppet.  This is a very different situation to G10 where the King of Spain is being held hostage by the excommunicated Duke of Savoy, a renegade is trying to destroy what is left of Spain and there seems to be a monthly competition to present the most unhistoric and intellectually incoherent arguments to turn the game into a farce.  Clearly no decision has been taken over the future of Genoa in G7, while contrary to Spanish propaganda, the Genoese have stated that they are quite happy with the way the French are treating them.  If France jumped the gun by occupying Genoa, is Spain not equally guilty by occupying Corsica?

2. For the first time ever in G7, Spain has failed to convince a Papal representative to do his bidding      And this was despite the fact that it was Spain's idea to bring in the auditor.   To cover herself, Spain attempted to discredit the auditor's findings, presumably intending to withdraw those objections had the auditor not found any evidence against Spain!  Logically there can only be one explanation, and it isn't the smokescreen suggested by Stuart.  Every time evidence against Spain appears, the blame is thrown on mysterious and unknown 3rd parties, and then the month after yet more evidence appears.  How this finally plays out is anyone's guess, but if Spain is not involved then she should leave it to France and Genoa to sort out their differences.  Instead, Spain has involved herself by setting up a new faction, a rival 'government in exile' under the Genoese ambassador to Spain.  Does this get Spain a seat at any future negotiations or is it just a wrecking tactic?  I don't know and don't really care.

3. Releasing a 'huge sum of money' to the Portobello Company (HWIC/Martel, chief suspect in the fraud and general underhand dealings) and the Royal Bank of Americas (where the auditor found £95M of French money had been transferred), at the same time the auditor found the evidence can only suggest that Spain knew what was about to happen and is doing his best to disperse money now proven to be stolen.  While this may upset France, it is not the action of an innocent party.

4. I will not answer the 6 questions Stuart asks in point 11 since those replies are better made in game.  However, since the Bank of England was not operating when the fraud began, the assertion that any money went through England is clearly false.  The standard currency in the game is Pounds (indeed it was once an old game rule that expenditure on treasury sheets should be written in pounds (as prices in rule books are) to help speed up the processing of orders), so that the amounts are reported in a standard currency is not significant.  If England had suddenly found £95M deposited in her treasury then the first thing I'd have done is buy back America ... even Stuart would admit I would not have sent it on to a Spanish bank associated with Martel!  There comes a point when the excuses become so implausible that people stop laughing.

5. The appearance of Blackbeard is surprising, but welcomed by Jacobite Naval Intelligence.  After hiding from the Spanish for over a decade, Jacobite Naval Intelligence has tracked him down in under a year thus proving that if you want to find someone it helps if you look for them.  The most important point he makes is that he has admitted he has evidence against Martel.  We don't know what that evidence is yet, but Blackbeard would not have risked breaking cover unless it was particularly damning.  While Martel is sheltering behind Spain (or Spain behind Martel?), the same cannot be said to apply to Blackbeard and England.  Indeed, Jacobite Naval Intelligence has already proved that Blackbeard's reputation as a pirate is not as he claimed, and any evidence he gives will be against his own reputation.  So if we look at motivation (which pirate do we believe), Blackbeard has far more credibility than Martel and is the one taking the risk.  This clearly requires a great deal of thought.

What I find fascinating about the way G7 has developed this game year is that instead of finding the newspaper full of threats, posturing/propaganda and rather boring wars, we have the unfolding of a number of complex puzzles, based not just on history, but game history.  I have long argued that one of the strengths of LGDR is that it is not just a wargame, but is far beyond fighting.  G7 is certainly proving that with the right players, the various twists and turns are enjoyable for all players whatever the size of their position and commitment to the game.  It demands a new style of play, which I am still learning.  Perhaps the reason Stuart is struggling is because he is relying on the kind of tricks he has used in the past working in the future?  We have also had a number of new players join this game year, which perhaps has added to this change in style.  I am sure other games would benefit from similar changes, and if it is the result of various new players joining, then thank you for changing G7 in such a positive way.

Ref above:

1) Since Genoa is under French Military occupation, the French have the Doge under arrest and have taken control of the Treasury of Genoa and thrown all the civil servants out into the Street its hard to see how the Government of the Republic in Genoa is still effective. Also find it hard to believe that Genoa is happy about their treatment by the French after the French burnt down 25% of the city, some of its leading Churches and killed thousands of civilians. Following such action the Spanish Propaganda department basically put its feet up on the desk its hands behind its head exclaimed "my work is done" and buggered off to the Opera.

2) Since the French Govt does not talk to Spain can hardly get a seat at talks which are not going to happen. Louis XIV did not even talk or make any demands from Genoa.......he just attacked and occupied the place. Spain does however seem to have gained (perhaps only in short term if French withdraw) a rather nice Island and a new fleet.

3) It was only £8m in paid out in final dividends to shareholders and bonus payments to staff of Spanish Trade Companies like the Saville Corporation and the Asanto.......paid in time so they could do their Christmas shopping! At least in G7 people seem to appreciate the kind and generous nature of Charles the Good of Spain and the House of Hapsburg. Unlike Scrabble were the HEIC has paid out hundreds of millions in dividends and all the shareholders do is moan about it not being very generous or the companies voting structure.

4) So its plausible that the French Treasury Minister used banks, merchants and money lenders in France, Genoa, Spain, Hamburg, Russia and China to launder stolen money but totally not to be believed that English banks, merchants and money lenders were not involved? - Edward Teach = English, Calico Jack = English, HWIC = English, Pemberton Company = English, Avery = English, John Churchill = English, Godolphin = English.

If you name a NPC with a slightly dodgy reputation in G7 at least 50% are English and at least half the others work for the French Treasury So if the crooks in the French Treasury are going to work with any outside partners I rather suspect it would be their old English allies and business partners rather than say the Spanish who would if the French offered them a load of "gold" at a dirt cheap price would be checking the price of lead to see if it was a good price or not.

5) Blackbeard showing up again is very, very welcome. According to my sheet the Gov of Havana posted a £60,000 reward but I have a funny feeling the Crown of Spain may have offfered to double reward or even add a £100,000 to the Gov reward for Blackbeard dead or alive after we paid Deacon (sorry Edward Teach) his ransom demand for our Archbishop and never got him back. Even if the English Government are correct and Blackbeard never had our missing Archbishop its still fraud against the Crown of Spain. Not to mention all the acts of Piracy and kidnapping on the High Sea's no one questions he did......enough to have him garrotted five times over. And the shocking slander and lies he is still turning out!

- Some games I am struggling big time (In RIB totally do not have a clue, Character cracking up and sacred chickens off their food) but actually G7 going fairly well. Give or take the large black war cloud just north of the Spanish frontier. But if France does attack Spain at least the war chests are full and the Spanish Army/Navy in G7 has given a really good polish and has first rate morale, equipment and training.

And yes I am sure the same can be said about the French, but with any luck if the French do attack Spain in G7 we will be able to show that lot in G10 what a proper campaign and proper balanced armies look like.

J Flower wrote:
Interesting to read on The Rules & Clarification Section that Canoes & 42pdr cannon are mentioned in the same article. Obviously something the Russian admiralty needs to look into. Does having Alaska count as part of Canada, are the  rules based on Geographical or political lines?

I think the Russians should put 48pdrs on their ships and jump up the Maritime Losses table. The French experimented with 48pdrs on their ship of the line in 1693 so it is possible but I suspect those monsters made the ship quite unstable.  When I say monsters, I mean the cannons of course, not the French....or do I?


V.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
1) Since Genoa is under French Military occupation, the French have the Doge under arrest and have taken control of the Treasury of Genoa and thrown all the civil servants out into the Street its hard to see how the Government of the Republic in Genoa is still effective. Also find it hard to believe that Genoa is happy about their treatment by the French after the French burnt down 25% of the city, some of its leading Churches and killed thousands of civilians.  Following such action the Spanish Propaganda department basically put its feet up on the desk its hands behind its head exclaimed "my work is done" and buggered off to the Opera.

2) Since the French Govt does not talk to Spain can hardly get a seat at talks which are not going to happen.  Louis XIV did not even talk or make any demands from Genoa.......he just attacked and occupied the place.  Spain does however seem to have gained (perhaps only in short term if French withdraw) a rather nice Island and a new fleet.

I can only go on what was reported in the newspaper, viz: "Don Louis Guzman from Spain went to see General Gian Antonio Gaspari of the Army of Genoa, and asked if he would like to leave for Madrid to join the Genoan government in exile being set up there?  The same query was put to government ministers at the Palace of the Senate, and to consuls of the bank of St.George. None of the consuls agreed to do so, stating they have nothing to fear, and amongst the government ministers Chancellor Marco Brignoles remarked how he considered the French are treating the Genoese well now the siege of Genoa is over, so he has no desire to leave his home either."  This reads to me as though Spain tried to set up a faction to steal Genoa for herself, but was thwarted according to the newspaper by the French treating the Genoese well.  It may spoil your narrative, Stuart, but it is what is written in the newspaper.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
3) It was only £8m in paid out in final dividends to shareholders and bonus payments to staff of Spanish Trade Companies like the Saville Corporation and the Asanto.......paid in time so they could do their Christmas shopping!  At least in G7 people seem to appreciate the kind and generous nature of Charles the Good of Spain and the House of Hapsburg.

Clearly those in Genoa do not think King Charles of Spain is as good or reasonable as King Louis of France otherwise they would have been rallying to Spanish colours instead of praising those who have caused such outrage in Madrid.

There can't be that many positions in the game that have a spare £8M to throw around the turn before the income round, and to describe it as "only £8M" seems to demonstrate just how little Spain understands the position of most players.  Of course it is easy to throw money around if you have just defrauded your main enemy of over ten times that amount.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
4) So its plausible that the French Treasury Minister used banks, merchants and money lenders in France, Genoa, Spain, Hamburg, Russia and China to launder stolen money but totally not to be believed that English banks, merchants and money lenders were not involved? - Edward Teach = English, Calico Jack = English, HWIC = English, Pemberton Company = English, Avery = English, John Churchill = English, Godolphin = English.

This strange obsession with blaming others based on the nationality of their birth in no way implicates England, given:

- Blackbeard, known enemy of England and Spain, believed dead by Spain, but recently uncovered by Jacobite Naval Intelligence.
- Calico Jack, believed to be a HWIC operative responsible for a number of murders in England, so clearly not working for England.
- HWIC, nominally English, but owned and operated by Spain, as are its subsidiaries/associates the Portobello Company and various others who just happened to receive their share of the £8M Spain gave away this month.  Or is Spain simultaneously levying illegal taxes on English merchants sailing out of the Med, while giving millions in trade subsidies to 'English' companies?  Subsidizing your enemy's trade would be a first, and I have to say I have not noticed any benefit to England's trade returns from such an activity, so I think we can safely say that HWIC is classed as Spanish!
- Pemberton Company, went bust a decade ago.
- Avery, not seen or heard of for years, believed dead unless working for Spanish HWIC?
- John Churchill, one time player character who murdered King James 2nd (clearly no friend of Jacobites or my character), disappeared (believed sheltered by Williamite sympathisers backed by Spain), appeared again (once Spanish money was paid to UDP to bring him back to life), and was finally run to ground and killed by the victorious Jacobite forces of King James 3rd.  By no stretch of anyone's twisted imagination could he be considered to be on my side!
- Godolphin, in calmer times one time player character, now reformed and faithfully serving King James as ambassador to France.  Spends his time teaching his parrot, Esmerelda, such phrases as "Spain Backs Pirates", which seems rather apt.

You have of course failed to mention the various other "English" factions which were brought into existence by Spain as 'factions' to fight King James, using Spanish-controlled characters, bankrolled by Spanish money, and who did their level best to destroy England.  No doubt Spain would call these 'English', but I doubt anyone would see them as anything other than Spanish!

Stuart Bailey wrote:
5) Blackbeard showing up again is very, very welcome.  According to my sheet the Gov of Havana posted a £60,000 reward but I have a funny feeling the Crown of Spain may have offered to double reward or even add a £100,000 to the Gov reward for Blackbeard dead or alive after we paid Deacon (sorry Edward Teach) his ransom demand for our Archbishop and never got him back.  Even if the English Government are correct and Blackbeard never had our missing Archbishop its still fraud against the Crown of Spain.  Not to mention all the acts of Piracy and kidnapping on the High Sea's no one questions he did......enough to have him garroted five times over.  And the shocking slander and lies he is still turning out!  

It has not been proven that Blackbeard actually received the ransom Spain paid ... more likely it was diverted by Martel into his own pocket.  If Blackbeard did receive Spain's payment then that crime is against the government of Spain, not England, and as such he has no case to answer to an English court.  Other acts of piracy, etc, are still to be established with certainty, and King James is keeping an open mind until there is some evidence.  Evidence which is solid enough to get a conviction, such as that found against Spain/Martel over the French fraud.  

As far as I am aware there is no extradition treaty between England and Spain, and no chance of getting one for as long as Spain is protecting Martel.  To protect a pirate is bad enough, but to put him in charge of large swathes of your empire, allow him to control your units, give him a budget of money and recruits, and repeatedly promote him, is asking for trouble.  And trouble would appear to be just what he has landed Spain in.  How Spain gets out of this trouble will no doubt appear over the next few turns, but I'm sure you will appreciate that it is not for me to offer advice to Spain other than to come clean, plead guilty, and either hand Martel over to England to face English justice or to France to face French justice.  Not sure if garroting is a French punishment, but English lawyers will immediately lodge a case in France should he appear there, since his crimes against England go back much longer.  I suppose I could let France put what is left of his body on trial, but he might have some difficulty communicating any kind of defence?

Fitting larger guns to ships = More fire power  

But the greater weight means that the free-board (gap between water and lower gunports reduced) is reduced  

Having lower free-board than your opponent means that in a bit of a rough sea such as would be normal for the Atlantic you may have to close your lower gun ports while the foe keeps his open.

If you have badly trained crews, Russian crews or are just unlucky with wave and tak combination then the combination of open lower gun ports and water higher than the free-board tends to result in things like the sinking of the Mary Rose and the Swedish Flag ship the Vasa.

As a rule of thumb I tend to consider upgrade guns for ships used in calm waters like the Baltic and the Med but consider up-gunning ships used in blue water to be a hazard.  However, it should be noted that the Mary Rose sunk in the solent and the Vasa in the Baltic so perhaps the better option for Russians in Glori is just to nail up the lower gun ports.  Or only take ships out of dry dock in summer when its really calm.

The other disadvantage with up gunned ships is that they are slower..........My Corsairs normally need to have to lie down in dark room at thought of anything which makes them go slower! So NON! to that type of thing.

G7 Spanish spend a lot of time and diplomatic ink trying to work out if they are a Med fleet or an Atlantic one.  That question never really decided so their solution to problem was to just build bigger ships and while some guns are upgraded others are replaced with carronades to even out the weight.  They also have a place for real monsters like 48 pounders.........on the Ramparts of Spanish Forts defending Ports and next to a Herna hospital!  I am not bitter about the sack of Havana by Blackbeard you understand but next pirate to try it is driftwood!

Against ships I can see the point of larger canon = larger holes but apart from that do not see point of upgraded fortress guns. The normal 18 pounder is fine against all land targets, shots quicker and uses less powder than larger guns.

Think question about if its a good move to upgrade guns is one of those questions with no correct answer.  So I say just go with what you feel is correct for your position........unless you are Russian.

Papa Clement wrote:
 This reads to me as though Spain tried to set up a faction to steal Genoa for herself, but was thwarted according to the newspaper by the French treating the Genoese well.  It may spoil your narrative, Stuart, but it is what is written in the newspaper.

Clearly those in Genoa do not think King Charles of Spain is as good or reasonable as King Louis of France otherwise they would have been rallying to Spanish colours instead of praising those who have caused such outrage in Madrid.

There can't be that many positions in the game that have a spare £8M to throw around the turn before the income round, and to describe it as "only £8M" seems to demonstrate just how little Spain understands the position of most players.  Of course it is easy to throw money around if you have just defrauded your main enemy of over ten times that amount.

This strange obsession with blaming others based on the nationality of their birth in no way implicates England,
You have of course failed to mention the various other "English" factions which were brought into existence by Spain as 'factions' to fight King James, using Spanish-controlled characters, bankrolled by Spanish money, and who did their level best to destroy England.  No doubt Spain would call these 'English', but I doubt anyone would see them as anything other than Spanish!

How Spain gets out of this trouble will no doubt appear over the next few turns, but I'm sure you will appreciate that it is not for me to offer advice to Spain other than to come clean, plead guilty, and either hand Martel over to England to face English justice or to France to face French justice.

Would just like to point out the following:

1) Spain is not trying to steal anything least of all Genoa. It has leased the Island of Corsica but the Republic can have it back again as soon as the French free the Doge, Treasury of the Republic etc and withdraw from Genoa when their investigation (which currently seems to have caught a massive Red Herring) is complete.

2) I am sure the people of Genoa must really love King Louis after he burnt down 25% of their city killing thousands and destroying some of their greatest art works in the process. And the Fleet of the smashed Republic only joined the Hapsburgs because a) The Spanish Navy has superior wine and tobacco rations? or b) They see the Hapsbug's as their best hope?

3) Spain only helped to set up one British faction (New Scots Government in Glasgow after the murder of King William, the Scots Prime Minister and Prince Eugine of Savoy). All the rest were home grown by the no less than four player run English factions - English Govt, Jacobites in Exile, HWIC and Blackbeard's merry men. With probably some help from the Dutch who were very upset about the killing of their Stadtholder and the French who gave 100% backing to the Jacobite Corsairs who raided English shipping 1700-1706.

Just to confuse matters even more we have had x2 HWIC players, x2/x3? players of Blackbeard and at least 4 English Govt players including the current one who is a Jacobite. No3 (John Churchill) was also a Jacobite in that he abandoned his allies and restored the Stuarts but then killed James II when the King turned out to not be a total puppet.

Following their total loss of honour caused by betraying King William and the betrayal (x2) and murder of King James II the English ministers like Godophin and the Duke of Norfolk then arranged a faked daul in which Norfolk was surposed to have shot Churchill prior to his body being destroyed in a handy fire. Interestingly the same Duke of Norfolk who betrayed King James, betrayed King William,
Betrayed King James again and conspired to allow his ally the Duke of Malborough to "vanish" is still in the English Government giving talks to Spain about "honour" while he probably lines his pockets by buying muskets for the English Infantry. May be better in game but historically the Petrine musket was a effective club with a spike on the end.

Basically since at least 75% of the largest Rogues in G7 are English of one type or another and many have contacts with France (The HWIC at one stage was at least in talks ref a French shareholding & some of Blackbeard most infamous Captains were French) think its very brave to say 100% that their was no English involvment of any kind in any unsolved crime?

4) The King of Spain has no particular problems and is 100% certain that he does not have any of the £40m so say stolen from the French Treasury or the additional £60m so say stolen from someone else who it seems does not even know it is missing. He has even sworn on Holy Relics to this effect.

If the French would sooner believe some forger than the sworn word of the King of Spain and Hapsburg No2 then I am fairly sure a messenger of Louis XIV carrying a declaration of war can find his way to Madrid (they have had enough practice!). But I think if anyone declares war on Spain and the House of Austria ref a lie at least 50% of the problem is theirs.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Would just like to point out the following:

1) Spain is not trying to steal anything least of all Genoa.  It has leased the Island of Corsica but the Republic can have it back again as soon as the French free the Doge, Treasury of the Republic etc and withdraw from Genoa when their investigation (which currently seems to have caught a massive Red Herring) is complete.

2) I am sure the people of Genoa must really love King Louis after he burnt down 25% of their city killing thousands and destroying some of their greatest art works in the process.  And the Fleet of the smashed Republic only joined the Hapsburgs because a) The Spanish Navy has superior wine and tobacco rations? or b) They see the Hapsbug's as their best hope?

Spain set up a faction which she calls a government in exile.  It can have no power while the original government of Genoa still exists, which is proved by the reluctance of Genoese ministers to join your faction, and the newspaper reports from the Doge and other senators, who broadly seem friendly towards the French.  You then told this faction to lease all Genoese territory which was not under French occupation to Spain for £1 and sent in Spanish forces to occupy it.

I don't know how the original government of Genoa is going to respond, but I'm sure players and non-players will reach their own conclusions based on how they would feel if you had done the same to their position as you have to Genoa.

Who knows, when the Treaty of Scotland expires perhaps Spain will set up a faction at El Escorial named the "Government in exile of Jersey", then oblige it to lease Jersey to Spain for £1 and send Spanish troops/ships to occupy Jersey, landing before the ink is even dry on the document?  Of course Spain would promise to leave Jersey once its political objectives were secured, but you might find rather a lot of other nations condemn such a move.  I happen to think they would be right to criticise Spain's actions, but self-evidently you would disagree.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
3) Spain only helped to set up one British faction (New Scots Government in Glasgow after the murder of King William, the Scots Prime Minister and Prince Eugine of Savoy).  All the rest were home grown by the no less than four player run English factions - English Govt, Jacobites in Exile, HWIC and Blackbeard's merry men.  With probably some help from the Dutch who were very upset about the killing of their Stadtholder and the French who gave 100% backing to the Jacobite Corsairs who raided English shipping 1700-1706.

Just to confuse matters even more we have had x2 HWIC players, x2/x3? players of Blackbeard and at least 4 English Govt players including the current one who is a Jacobite.  No3 (John Churchill) was also a Jacobite in that he abandoned his allies and restored the Stuarts but then killed James II when the King turned out to not be a total puppet.

Following their total loss of honour caused by betraying King William and the betrayal (x2) and murder of King James II the English ministers like Godophin and the Duke of Norfolk then arranged a faked duel in which Norfolk was supposed to have shot Churchill prior to his body being destroyed in a handy fire.  Interestingly the same Duke of Norfolk who betrayed King James, betrayed King William, betrayed King James again and conspired to allow his ally the Duke of Malborough to "vanish" is still in the English Government giving talks to Spain about "honour" while he probably lines his pockets by buying muskets for the English Infantry.  May be better in game but historically the Petrine musket was a effective club with a spike on the end.

Basically since at least 75% of the largest Rogues in G7 are English of one type or another and many have contacts with France (The HWIC at one stage was at least in talks ref a French shareholding & some of Blackbeard most infamous Captains were French) think its very brave to say 100% that their was no English involvement of any kind in any unsolved crime?

You appear to have lost count of the different factions you have been involved with, e.g. the short lived "English Republican Faction" founded by your soldiers as they marauded across the country. You are on record boasting that you have sponsored several factions.  I can't deny that some of these factions may have originally been founded by others, but it was Spanish money and Spanish orders which brought them back to life to serve the interests of Spain and allow you to fight proxy wars through them.  I seem to vaguely recall such groups as the Sons of Liberty, and Defenders of England, as well, which were omitted from the previous roll of dishonour.  The common links between all these are characters/companies controlled by and paid by Spanish/HWIC money.

To try and pin the fraud against France on England or characters under my control misses 3 rather critical points:

1. Many of the characters you mention are now dead, including Churchill ... yes, I do a proper job and can confirm that the body is definitely his.  Your assertion that the Duke of Norfolk was somehow involved in Churchill's 'disappearance' is news to his wife who was outraged by her husband's reappearance in William's service!  The Duke of Norfolk could also not have been involved in the fraud because he was a prisoner of the Dutch at the time the fraud started.

2. Those characters which are still alive are in roles where they can do no damage, and they know that they are under almost constant observation - if they make one move against me, they know the penalty.   My treasury records are regularly audited as a specific anti-fraud measure, and as an additional safeguard I doubt there is a single player in the game that doesn't know England is always short of cash.  You don't need to be trained in an academy of crime to realise that it is hard to be a successful criminal if you steal from those without any money!

3. You are correct that before I joined as King James, England had been messed around with by several players of varying skill who ran it into the ground, and several more who tried to invade it or steal bits of it.  So some investigation over what has happened in the past is inevitably necessary.  Spain did not suffer from the same problems, but has been remarkably well played by you since 1700.  Unfortunately that security of tenure does mean it is difficult for you to escape responsibility for what you have done, including making some of those characters (e.g. Martel) part of your own position and giving them the means, motive and opportunity to act against your enemies.  No doubt your version of the history of the game is coloured by your own propaganda, which when re-examined forensically and with hindsight, does not always match the revealed facts.

No doubt we will see how this all develops over the next few game turns, but as things stand Spain has a serious credibility problem.

Must admit that as I came to this particular Game after it had been running for a couple of years, It was a little confusing to see all those factions, counter factions & counter counter factions. Russia has a lease hold on the 13 colonies in the Americas( England's holdings.) When I look at that part of my ORBAT it seems there are more factions than people to fill them. I was lucky enough I suppose that I took up the position after most of the factions had become redundant. Can imagine it was a bit of a nightmare for Herr Watts to keep track of who, what where & when. Some of them are probably still ticking over quietly in the back ground. It is possible they are primed to explode once more in the not too distant in game future. Because.....

Game Seven, it appears is on a knife edge at the moment, the Peace treaty that Held the Hapsburgs & Bourbons in check, is ticking down to it's expiry date. Guess it is fair to say it wasn't really a Peace treaty, more an Armistice. Once the income round( Next turn) is concluded, then there is a definite chance all hell is going to break loose in Europe. Could be an interesting time for innocent bystanders. Readers of this thread, may probably realised there is a growing feeling of tension in the Game. The fuse has been lit now its time to stand back & enjoy the fireworks.

As Russia is already the holder of the Title "Most Ships Sunk at Sea!" the fitting of either 42pdrs or 48pdrs to Russian ships is an option that is currently being considered should any challenge to the Title be felt. It has taken a long time to establish the Reputation & Traditions of the Russian Fleet in Game 7, to the extent that its Fame has spread to other LGDR games. The Russian navy is famous across the Gaming Worlds of Agema for its ability to sink Ships. How many other Countries can make such a bold claim? "We Sink ships" is the battle cry of many a damp Russian sailor.

Ref the comment from Jason that the Russian leasehold colonies have more factions than people to fill them by theory is that some "characters" show up on more than one list.

Classic example being the American based Sons of Liberty set up by Blackbeard and now mostly working for the Russians. But also believed to have been infiltrated by the HWIC almost to the point of take over and also infilrated by France, Spain, England and the Dutch.

So unless players have been more than normally active in cleaning up their lists and sacking agents I suspect that some characters are double, triple and even more agents. But loyal to Herr Watts only!

Samething of the same can be said about a lot of English ministers/commanders who have a different times since 1700 been loyal to King William, James II, Churchill & the Republic? Restored King William (never really clear) and now James III. If for say out of game reasons the Iron grip of James III is passed cold to a new player the mind boggles about what he or she would make of merry England and what would come out of the wood work

Perhaps a hint of this was when a leading Bishop is Church of Engalnd (Henry VII settlement restored, Mostly Catholic style services but with King as head of Church) passed away and his records showed him to be a secret Calvinist in Dogma. So to hush up the scandal James III had him buried at sea with his golf clubs. If new player gets to buy the American colonies back.........poison chalice for a mere £27m.........I think a stiff drink and the head ache tablets may be needed!

Mind you if any new player takes over Spain in G7 I do wonder how Richard amend/play some things to make it interesting for the new player.

J Flower wrote:Must admit that as I came to  this particular Game after it had been running for a couple of years, It was a little confusing to see all those factions, counter factions & counter counter factions. Russia has a lease hold  on the 13 colonies in the Americas( England's holdings.) When I look at that part of my ORBAT it seems there are more factions than people to fill them. I was lucky enough I suppose that I took up the position after most of the factions had become redundant. Can imagine it was a bit of a nightmare for Herr Watts to keep track of who, what where & when. Some of them are probably still ticking over quietly in the back ground. It is possible they are primed to explode once more in the not too distant in game future. Because.....

It is no secret that one reason I agreed to the lease of the 13 American colonies to Russia was precisely because of the number of factions/troublemakers operating over there.  I had more than enough of the same kind of thing to tidy up in England itself, which took an extraordinary amount of time and effort, but proved to be worth it.

I should also add that the then Russian player was well aware of the situation he was taking on, and JFlower has demonstrated just what a good bargain the lease has been for Russia, concentrating on stimulating trade while also ensuring that activity by factions has been identified if not fully controlled. Overall the Russian administration of America has been a great success for all sides (except the factions and those who sponsor them).

Investigating factions does take a lot of time up and plenty of mistakes are made along the way, but eventually the truth comes out.  Sometimes the actions of a reported individual in the newspaper could actually be nothing to do with a LGDR player, but a Swashbuckler character who nobody is aware of.  But that is one of the fascinating things about the game ... it is in a sense 2 games in 1, and it is up to the players to explore what is going on.

J Flower wrote:Game Seven, it appears is on a knife edge at the moment, the Peace treaty that Held the Hapsburgs & Bourbons in check, is ticking down to it's expiry date. Guess it is fair to say it wasn't really a Peace treaty, more an Armistice. Once the income round (Next turn) is concluded, then there is a definite chance all hell is going to break loose  in Europe. Could be an interesting time for innocent bystanders. Readers of this thread, may probably realised there is a growing  feeling of tension in the Game. The fuse has been lit now its time to stand back & enjoy the fireworks.

The peace treaty (Treaty of Scotland) which ended most of the fighting in G7 has been much discussed and is still cited nearly every turn by one side or the other.  It was certainly intended by England to be a peace treaty, not an armistice, and I think Austria (which had been inactive for most of the time) also stuck to its terms faithfully.  Trying to work out how France and Spain see the ToS is something I've given up on.  

From England's perspective the main reason there has not been a war resulting from various alleged treaty violations is that after more than a decade of war, England needs peace far more than any other signatory.  Austria may need a little more time to rebuild through neglect of the position by the previous player, but is likely to be capable of war much sooner than people expect given the help Stuart has provided.  France is clearly still capable of packing a punch despite strained finances, whereas Spain arguably has the largest and best-prepared army in the game.  So those who want to fight and have the ability/means probably do view the ToS as an armistice, but it is worth remembering that:

1. treaties do not guarantee peace.  They can be broken, bent, ignored, and are increasingly seen as pointless by some players, especially when having signed a treaty, one side continues to fight through a faction or 3rd party they are funding!
2. peace is not simply the absence of war.  For there to be a true peace then it requires respect and trust between the parties, and a genuine attempt to change behaviour so that potential flashpoints do not deteriorate into war.  Writing letters helps build understanding, but it does not necessarily lead to changes in behaviour and may even make things worse if one party refuses to address the concerns of the other.

Whether the ToS is classed as a peace treaty or an armistice, it did require the signatories to recognise King James so ended disputes over the succession.  The expiry of the ToS does not reverse that, so if there is a resumption of war it will be for different reasons, of which as JFlower notes, there are many!

J Flower wrote:As Russia is already the holder of the Title "Most Ships Sunk at Sea!" the fitting of either 42pdrs or 48pdrs to Russian ships is an option that is currently being considered should any challenge to the Title be felt. It has taken a long time to establish the Reputation & Traditions of the Russian Fleet in Game 7, to the extent that its Fame has spread to other LGDR games. The Russian navy is famous across the Gaming Worlds of Agema for its ability to sink Ships. How many other Countries can make such a bold claim? "We Sink ships" is the battle cry of many a damp Russian sailor.

Russian ships do have an alarming ability to meet with accidents, but to be sure of retaining the title perhaps you should fit 84pdr mortars to your ships?

For the sake of accuracy, I should perhaps point out the rival English claim as the nation which has sunk the most of her own ships.  This incident occurred after 3 sizeable fleets of SoL plus a large number of frigates and prizes/transports were captured in Dumbarton by UDP (who broke the ceasefire and attacked English troops who had been ordered not to break the ceasefire).  Under historic Naval Regulations, English officers are obliged to destroy their ships rather than let them fall into the hands of the enemy, so the order was given for the remaining English ships in the vicinity to send a messenger into the port ordering crews to leave their ships so they could be sunk.  This was only partially carried out since a storm sank the rowboat, drowning the messenger, although the general message was soon understood when the English fleet opened fire and sunk all the captured capital ships, blocking the harbour and preventing UDP from escaping with their illgotten gains.  So in terms of actual numbers of own ships sunk, England probably has the prize, albeit this was a deliberate act and occurred in port rather than at sea.

I do like the Russian battlecry, though: "We sink ships" should clearly have a positive effect on morale.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Ref the comment from Jason that the Russian leasehold colonies have more factions than people to fill them my theory is that some "characters" show up on more than one list.

Classic example being the American based Sons of Liberty set up by Blackbeard and now mostly working for the Russians.  But also believed to have been infiltrated by the HWIC almost to the point of take over and also infiltrated by France, Spain, England and the Dutch.

Certainly in G10, some 'characters' do show up on multiple lists.  I have Cardinal Portocarerro still showing on my list despite him having died a few turns ago.  This might, of course, be a quirk of the Papacy since the Catholic Church does have control over some aspects of what Catholic nations do even if players don't like it.

I don't know about the way other characters/factions show up, though, unless they have been formally adopted or sponsored by a particular country.  There are no factions on England's asset list.

Stuart Bailey wrote:So unless players have been more than normally active in cleaning up their lists and sacking agents I suspect that some characters are double, triple and even more agents.  But loyal to Herr Watts only!

Something of the same can be said about a lot of English ministers/commanders who have a different times since 1700 been loyal to King William, James II, Churchill & the Republic? Restored King William (never really clear) and now James III.  If for say out of game reasons the Iron grip of James III is passed cold to a new player the mind boggles about what he or she would make of merry England and what would come out of the wood work

Perhaps a hint of this was when a leading Bishop is Church of England (Henry VII settlement restored, Mostly Catholic style services but with King as head of Church) passed away and his records showed him to be a secret Calvinist in Dogma.  So to hush up the scandal James III had him buried at sea with his golf clubs.  If new player gets to buy the American colonies back.........poison chalice for a mere £27m.........I think a stiff drink and the head ache tablets may be needed!

Mind you if any new player takes over Spain in G7 I do wonder how Richard amend/play some things to make it interesting for the new player.

As you well know, Stuart, I have spent a lot of time cleaning up my asset list, getting rid of agents, characters, etc, whose loyalty could be suspect.  I even, in the early days, sent characters off to America to get rid of them because Spain objected to them.  Of course not all remaining characters are 100% trusted and as the rules say, all characters within the game have hidden characteristics not revealed to players, which are known only to the GM.  'Bishop' Burnett was not buried at sea with his golf clubs to hush up a scandal, but for theological reasons as explained at the time.

I think if anyone took over England or Spain in G7 they would find a few surprises awaiting them.  One day I really would like to see Spain's asset list and be able to quiz 'advisors' on all Spain's dirty tricks.  I'm exposing some of them, but there must be hundreds still waiting to be discovered.  

As to England being passed on, there are no immediate plans to do so, but whoever does inherit it will find the challenges to be largely self-inflicted, if, for example, they try to reverse my reforms.  Next turn the game year will be 1715, so to rely on the same people doing the same things they did in 1688 (27 years before), or even earlier, is somewhat unlikely.  Archbishop Tenison, for example, b.1634 was archbishop of Canterbury from 1694, so will be 81.  Life expectancy in the period 1500-1800 was only 30-40 years, so he has already survived much longer than most.   Even adjusting for the high numbers of infant mortality and deaths from war, to get to 50 was considered an achievement.  So although the religious changes have not quite been completed (yet), England is certainly moving towards the Catholic faith, which is an achievement I can be satisfied with.  And it will have happened largely without bloodshed, but through a genuine conversion of everyday life as people recognise the truth of Catholic teaching.  Whether this would have happened so quickly without all the chopping and changing of previous players, and the impact of a decade of fighting mainly protestant reactionaries, I don't know.  But overall the population of England, Ireland, Scotland and the colonies is almost 50% Catholic now; after allowing for various other protestant dissenting groups, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, druids and those whose idea of religion defies any label, that leaves Anglicans as the largest minority.  Of course the Papacy in G7 has not yet recognised this shift, but perhaps 1715 will be the year when it reaches tipping point and we see England restored into full communion with Rome, and a few English Cardinals created by the Pope.  That may make it more difficult re-integrate the 13 American Colonies when the Russian lease is up, but it will make for a very interesting game development.  Until this turn, the Papacy has always given Spain whatever she wanted, so perhaps there is a clue here that it may not be so in the future, and that by rejoining the Church, England will have more of an input into Papal policy generally?

Due to the ongoing development process of the the Russian navy in G7. The first batch of Academy trained sailors for the Navy will be available for service at the start of the next game year, as part of the training these men have been taught to SWIM. Despite some Russian Admirals pointing out if they can swim the sailors may abandon there ships rather than go down with their ships, therefore all sailors who can swim will be restricted to Shore Duty.

Long Naval Cannon have been developed this in combination with the new 42pdr Brass naval cannon, is a welcome improvement to the Tsarist navy, Sinking ships is after all a serious matter.

The Russian Admiralty has issued orders this turn for all the Ships of the fleet to be painted red, as this is thought to improve sailing speed. Should it prove successful other Russian players will of course be informed.

In theory all these Naval development by the early founders of the Imperial Russian Navy bare fruit by the 1860's and the Imperial Russian in Scabble.

Clearly the early leaders of the Russian Navy (motto "we sink ships) need to pay more attention to bottom of page 16 of the Miscellany and the early development of "Submarines" and diving bells in order to establish the tradition's of the Russian Submarine service.

Herr Drebbel invention seems just the type of thing in which Czar Peter would take the lead and show his dareing do in visiting the bottom of the Moscow River. I mean what could go wrong?

Shame That orders have been submitted.
In true Russian fashion it is probably best not to ask Hr Drebbel to go to Russia out work, probably best just to kidnap him.

Would however that some research into submersibles has been carried out, getting ships to go down" We Sink Ships!" has so far been proven highly successful, obviously Hr Drebbel needs to work on the surfacing technical side of things.

Question is where to fit the cannon on the submersible, surely those gun ports will let water in.
Another technical problem for Hr Drebbel

Looking at the title of this thread-G7....War Declared, leaves me to wonder where , when, why & what will spark the next round of war in this version of LGDR.

The much maligned Treaty of Scotland that brought the last round to close has almost expired. There is a degree of posturing for a rematch already going on.

The two heavy weight contenders of Spain & France are at the "Hey! What you looking at...!" Stage. Handbags are being prepared & they may move to the pub car park very soon & try & scratch each others eyes out.

Their partner at their side, may however be holding them back a bit England & Austria both need a break to Powder their nose & get things straightened out & sitting properly. How long they need in the Ladies room is a question, no man is brave enough to ask.

The Rest of the cliental, just want a quiet night out & the free peanuts on the bar.

There is going to be a fight, just a matter of time.

I thought the agreed title for this thread was "G7....War declared ?"

Would also like to point out that the soft and cuddly power that is G7 Spain under "Charles the Good" advised by a whole gang of female characters and elderly Cleric's has only been involved in three wars and did not start any of them!

War 1 - Started by French invasion of England due to broken dredger contract, while France had reason to be upset about its Dredgers not showing up did think regime change and Jacobite restoration was a bit of a over reaction to a broken commercial contract. Austria actually broke a treaty with France to help its English Ally and while he waited for treaty to expire Charles was dragged in to help out his dear old Dad and his sort off English ally. When I say "sort off" it should be noted that in this period Governments in London changed at such a rate that it was hard for anyone to say who they were allied too.

War 2 - Spain gets upset by French crewed Jacobite Pirates calling themselves "Dunkirkers" since Dunkirk is in Spanish Flanders and sinks them in Irish Waters thinking its doing the English a favour. London Govt decides this is violation of British Waters and declares war on Spain! After a couple of months of English Naval canon going ping of Spanish Harbour defences London decides it has done enough and makes peace with a baffled Spain.

War 3 - England now under hard core Jacobite Government invades Scotland in part with a Russian Army it was surposed to transport to North America. UDP, Spain and Austria help their ally in Scotland (still King William) while the second a treaty runs out France declares war on those three powers and sends Army to Scotland to knrits help King James conquest of Country.

Think the longest running war in G7 is now the Franco-Persian Naval War with Persians needing only 3 more ships this month for the French to have lost 100 ships in the year. Own view is that this is less a war more a long running Public relations and recruiting mission by the Shah.