Back Seat Chariot Drivers

Regor wrote:Comms are getting a bit better but nowhere near as good as in other games (LGDR)

I agree - it is a great game. But also a frustrating one, for me at least. Regor is right to take the long view.

We appear to have lost over half of the players who started. Perhaps this is due to the enjoyment of play (such as communicating with and plotting with allies) being overbalanced by a reflection of realism (eg unreliable comms)?

People may well say "well laddie, this is the game you signed up for", and that's fair enough. Nevertheless I have found a number of the game much more limiting than I would have hoped for. Maybe it's just my game style? And yet, the drop-outs suggest otherwise.

Having said that, onwards and upwards!

Use a agent order up just so I could get one of the best trainers for by chariot and horse racing teams for the Iberian games and what info do I get back about my high quality Spanish horses :-

DECIDEDLY MEDIOCRE !!

Surely at a 1,000 denarii each (over three years earning for average Roman) in the best horse breeding country in the whole Empire you should get something better than than DECIDEDLY MEDIOCRE or do all the 31 horses (plus some spares?) need to be star quality (total cost 3,100,00 denarii...ouch) just to avoid total humiliation before the Emperor?!

Might be worth spending the money if it means the Emperor visits Iberia, has a great time and gives Latin Rights to Iberia.

But way things are going strong possibility that he will never make it as:

1) After poor harvest in Italy the Imperial grain silo's short of corn dole for 121,000 people. If you assume in normal times your poor pleb needs min of 1 denarii a day to survive and most of that is going to be spent on food. 121,000 X 30 = 3,630,000 so say after rent, clothing etc 121K people need 2m denerii a month of food to survive and 12 months gap between Harvests in September. Say 24m denerrii of worth of extra grain for other food stuffs needed or its going to be famine, food riots and other things in run up to the next harvest when the Imperial Silo's run out and the people do not get their grain dole?

Due to discounts for baulk buying, ability to waive tax and general ability to bully farmers Governors can probably get the grain etc for less but is it even on the market?

In event of famine does the Emperor suffer with his people or take a nice holiday in Iberia and watch Chariot racing?

2) Due to costs of rebuilding Rome, extra Legions and lower tax return due to the great fire and the plague in the south it seems that the Imperial treasury income is now a lot less than spending. For time being 1m denerii from Danube region gold mines and what turned out to be a 2m denerii from city treasury is keeping the Imperium from going bust. But unless the generals get a hell of a lot of loot this campaign season its not looking good fiscally for team Rome.

3) Reason for the 2m refund is that free Romans are now working as day labour in fields of southern Italy where they have effectively replaced lots of slaves dead of the plague.

But without proper land reform they will just be replaced with Slaves again - which means they will return to Rome which lacks both shelter and currently the grain to feed them.

Basically, the one thing which is probably keeping Nero firmly planted on the throne is that the gods on mount Agema have dealt team Rome such as **** hand that no single Roman leader wants Nero job. Run away screaming and hide in a forest in Germany, up a mountain in Dacia or sink into worry about the health of favoured horses, rope dancers and sacred chickens would seem to be normal reaction to the thought.

for information I have been quoted a price of 96 denarii per soul per month to provide enough grain. So the price for the 121,000 people in Rome is 11.6m denarii PER MONTH. Ouch. I want to help out and will try but that is a high price.

count-de-monet wrote:for information I have been quoted a price of 96 denarii per soul per month to provide enough grain.  So the price for the 121,000 people in Rome is 11.6m denarii PER MONTH.  Ouch.  I want to help out and will try but that is a high price.

Damn forgot about the shipping costs...........basically has the Senate or anyone got a spare 90m denarii to get team Rome up to the next harvest in September without famine and food riots in our somewhat smoke stained Capital when the Imperial Grain Silo's finally run out?

In theory that is only 150,000 denarii per senator.

Wonder if we used the Navy to move help move grain if that would help cut costs or do they have wrong type of ships?

Both Stuart and Count are on the money. Pun intended! I am sure Loot will not cover the rebuilding costs.

However there is one further embuggerance that Mount Doom Agema can and I suspect will chuck in to the mix. Nero’s Glory is tanking. Nothing, certainly not the loyal protestations of the Proconsuls and Legates will change this and I doubt he will make it through the summer.

Self-harm is a sin but what plan can we come up with: Be it emperor, triumvirate, republic or some other system of government to fettle the power vacuum.

Will the Empire survive? My chareter wants it to and will support and work for the Greater Good.

Should we start a new thread, “ Rome After Nero”????

Regor wrote:Both Stuart and Count are on the money. Pun intended! I am sure Loot will not cover the rebuilding costs.

However there is one further embuggerance that  Mount Doom Agema can and I suspect will chuck in to the mix. Nero’s Glory is tanking. Nothing, certainly not the loyal protestations of the Proconsuls and Legates will change this and I doubt he will make it through the summer.

Self-harm is a sin but what plan can we come up with: Be it emperor, triumvirate, republic or some other system of government to fettle the power vacuum.

Will the Empire survive? My chareter wants it to and will support and work for the Greater Good.

Should we start a new thread, “ Rome After Nero”????

If its triumvirate would this mean that player character senators get to draw up a list of really annoying Agema NPCs to feed to the Lions or something of that nature?

Danubian postal services and mine managment plus Roman builders could be in for a bad time. But top of list has got to be that grovelling pen pusher and general all round disgrace to the Roman Empire "Livlus" !! Calgacus plots with Druids, has murdered Romans, has stolen our Eagle and insults our Emperor, People and Army every time he opens his mouth.

Insults like this can only be answered with fire and sword but I do understand that the British Command may wish to send a messenger with a declaration of war and demand for return of our Eagle just for form sake.

Yet some how a demand that Calgacus personally presents himself naked and in chains before the devine Nero with the missing Eagle and gets turned in the mouth of the cowardly creep Livlus into "Please, please Mr Calgacus, can I lick your boots and if sir is really happy with the shine can he tip me with an Eagle if its not too much trouble."

Envoy of Rome - Pah !!! Your average Roman whore looking for a tip comes over with more dignity.

Sending messages like that is it any wonder the Germans and Dacians are raiding across the frontier without fear. And as for the Jewish and Christian 5th column for the King of Parthia lead by the so called Apostle Mark walking about all over the eastern part of the Empire like they own it. No need to wait for the official list can someone just nail them up please!

Oh Stuart, I see you’ve read the news. I bet it turned the air in the baths blue?? And you are right. But IMHO there are clear signs that Nero is on the way out.

We should prepare for that……

And to be fair to all the Roman players its been emotional this first year. I’ve actually had to have a long conversation with my chap and tell him to get a grip. His reply was grip what, when and when will the troops be ready..

It’s not all plain sailing

Note if the people wont buy a gold Nero as an heirloom …….. he’s at rock bottom. And were you one of the 50 idiots who bought one?

Are you up for the soon to be vacant post of Emperor?

I don't know, I log in for the first time in ages, just to deal with messages, make sure everyone is ok...

...and what's the first thing I see? Me, being slandered, by Mr B!!!! Mr B, of all people, accusing me of killing people, Mr "Lets see you swim with 10 rocks tied to your legs Swedish sailor" Bailey is telling lies so blatant that even the current British PM would consider them out of order!

I will put it on record that since the start of Burning I have not even harmed a single hair on the head of any lovely Roman. Why I love Romans, I'd sooner be violent to my manservant, Baldrick, than even give a papercut to a Roman.

Ok, I am poking fun at Nero, but come on I know you Romans love that really and I bet Nero does too, in fact I know for a fact that Nero sleeps with a picture of the great Caledonian leader under his pillow and looks into the portrait's mesmerising eyes to calm himself down when he wakes up from one of his all too regular nightmare of being brutally murdered by the Senate...

Ref my chap and the other 49 "idiots" who purchased gold.

If fiscal position does not improve then the Teasury in Rome may have to follow the traditional Roman practice and debase the amount of silver in the denarii.  An act which tends to cause inflation and upset people who are paid a fixed amount in cash ie the civil service and the Legions since for them it is a effective pay cut.

In event of a debasement of the denarii buying gold may not look that foolish.  He who laughs last and all that!

Naturally for those fine upstanding Legions who draw their pay and support from Iberia and all those merchants who supply them.  It should be pointed out that denarii with the mark of the mints of Corduba, Emerita Augusta and Asturica Augusta can be trusted 100%.

If post of Emperor were to become vacant in the short term opinion of Iberia should be of some value to the Senate when it makes its decision on next Consuls (for life? ie Emperor? or shorter tenure).  But real option is really between a military hero or one of the north african leaders who control the grain supply and may be able to do something about the looming famine?

Sad to say but at current moment in time with no adault male members of the Julio-Claudian family other than Nero (may he live for 1,000 years or at least long enough to visit the Iberian games and bestow our Latin rights).  My chap does not think anyone has really earned enough prestige to be granted the the full honour's of consul for life etc and thinks "team Rome" should consider the old x2 consuls one to deal with famine and other to deal with Parthian war.  

Of course if commanders of 40,000 plus men say my chap is wrong and their Supreme Commander is Roman Hero and worthy of these honours I am happy to accept their word for it.  Just would feel a bit happier if claim was backed up with the load cut up Germans, Dacians, Druids etc.

Is that really too much to ask for?

Jason2 wrote:I don't know, I log in for the first time in ages, just to deal with messages, make sure everyone is ok...

...and what's the first thing I see?  Me, being slandered, by Mr B!!!!  Mr B, of all people, accusing me of killing people, Mr "Lets see you swim with 10 rocks tied to your legs Swedish sailor" Bailey is telling lies so blatant that even the current British PM would consider them out of order!

I will put it on record that since the start of Burning I have not even harmed a single hair on the head of any lovely Roman.  Why I love Romans, I'd sooner be violent to my manservant, Baldrick, than even give a papercut to a Roman.

Ok, I am poking fun at Nero, but come on I know you Romans love that really and I bet Nero does too, in fact I know for a fact that Nero sleeps with a picture of the great Caledonian leader under his pillow and looks into the portrait's mesmerising eyes to calm himself down when he wakes up from one of his all too regular nightmare of being brutally murdered by the Senate...

Hi Jason,

Thank you for correcting the understanding of the Roman Senate on all matters British such as:

1) Paper account in issue 1 about butchered Roman guards and stolen Eagle is rubbish - The Eagle was actually a gift from the Legion commander to the great people of Caledonia for tips on how to deal with the highland midges. Low morale of Legion is not due to loss of Eagle at all but upset at being posted away from Britannia and its friendy natives.

2) Roman tax payers are not funding 3/4 Legions to complete conquest of Brittania. Nero actually wants them to make his his Caledonian buddy the High King of all Britain and then withdraw.

3) Stories that Nero has called the great Celedonian leader lots of nasty names and sent orders to Roman commanders to bring him the Caledonian's head but orders eat by the British commanders dog are actually a miss-translation by paper. Original Latin actually said get on and make my lovely Caledonian mate head of Britannia.

I am sure the Senate will be delighted that their misunderstanding has been sorted outare

Stuart Bailey wrote:Ref my chap and the other 49 "idiots" who purchased gold.

If fiscal position does not improve then the Teasury in Rome may have to follow the traditional Roman practice and debase the amount of silver in the denarii.  An act which tends to cause inflation and upset people who are paid a fixed amount in cash ie the civil service and the Legions since for them it is a effective pay cut.

In event of a debasement of the denarii buying gold may not look that foolish.  He who laughs last and all that!

Naturally for those fine upstanding Legions who draw their pay and support from Iberia and all those merchants who supply them.  It should be pointed out that denarii with the mark of the mints of Corduba, Emerita Augusta and Asturica Augusta can be trusted 100%.

If post of Emperor were to become vacant in the short term opinion of Iberia should be of some value to the Senate when it makes its decision on next Consuls (for life? ie Emperor? or shorter tenure).  But real option is really between a military hero or one of the north african leaders who control the grain supply and may be able to do something about the looming famine?

Sad to say but at current moment in time with no adault male members of the Julio-Claudian family other than Nero (may he live for 1,000 years or at least long enough to visit the Iberian games and bestow our Latin rights).  My chap does not think anyone has really earned enough prestige to be granted the the full honour's of consul for life etc and thinks "team Rome" should consider the old x2 consuls one to deal with famine and other to deal with Parthian war.  

Of course if commanders of 40,000 plus men say my chap is wrong and their Supreme Commander is Roman Hero and worthy of these honours I am happy to accept their word for it.  Just would feel a bit happier if claim was backed up with the load cut up Germans, Dacians, Druids etc.

Is that really too much to ask for?

Nope I tend to concur with that analysis. Let’s hope Nero lasts till summers fades to autumn?

Deary me, I hadn't intended to start posting much again but alas it does seem I must so in response to Mr B's questions

1)  Of course that report was rubbish and I am shocked, yes SHOCKED, a mere Caledonian must point this out to a senior Roman military officer...though perhaps the old adage about military intelligence was as true in the Roman period as later times...the newspaper reports legionnaires talking about how they lost the eagle of their Legion, "Legion XII Gemini".
Problem is, the Romans did not have such a unit.  "Legion XII Fulminata", yes and "Legion XIII Gemina" yes but no "Legion XII Gemina"
Surely the only answer is its fake legionnaires talking about the loss of a fake eagle from a non-existent legion as part of an attempt to make the Roman Army look stupid when it demands it back...FAKE NEWS, you Romans have been had...
Watch out for the Caledonian story behind the eagle in the next newspaper
(There is a vaguely serious point in all this, why have the Caledonians got an Eagle?  I'm no Roman specialist but surely we are too early for Roman legions that far north and the idea of Caledonians being so far south to take an eagle seems unlikely, plus Legion XIII, whose eagle I have, as far as I can make out never was in Britain....nor Legion XII)

2) Of course those legions aren't there to make the noble King of Caledonia High King of All Britain, what a silly idea, why would he want to be such a thing?  Those legions are there because Nero doesn't trust them and expects them to rebel, so he's stuck them on an island to keep his throne safe and watched over by the British Fleet...as things get worse in the Empire, expect more legions to be sent to Britain, if things get really bad the only Roman army left on the other side of the channel will be a bunch of 90 year old veterans and their pet dogs.

3) Oh Stuart, how little you know of unfrequented love...one minute its all Nero gazing into the picture of the Highland Hunk, next its him lashing out at the object of his desire, then back to gazing lovingly

I'm starting to think I should be reading "Asterix and Obelix" to better understand Burning's Romans and not Tacitus

Only one well known XII Legion under the Principate and that was XII Falminata, but it should be noted that blue painted savages probably can not count and may have wrong number also more than one Roman Legion could have the same number. We know of Six I, five II, two X, two XXII etc.

Four Legions known too have the title "Germina" one of which VII Gemina was formed slightly after our period but the title itself means twin and probably referred to a Legion formed by the amalgamation of two units. Possible reasons why units could be amalgamated could be very heavy losses or loss of an Eagle.

Jumbled accounts from the wilds of the North would seem to imply that someone has a Eagle from a disbanded and otherwise unknown XII (?) Legion (loss of Eagle means loss of unit even if its basically intact manpower wise) who's men where then amalgamated too form one of the Legions known as Germina or the Twins.

Better not be X Germina as my chap commended that Legion also it seems to spend its time in the east. More likely would seem to be one of the units merged to form VII Germina around the RIB period or XIV Germina Martia Victrix another twinned unit which was involved in the Boudiccan revolt.

For RIB purposes suspect your chap gains huge status due to having a Eagle and getting it back was the starter problem for Roman Commanders in Britannia. Bit like Verpasians grave robbers, Lighthouse in Alexandria falling down and Trajan senior starting problem being a row over a statue which could have started a almighty feud between Roman Gens.

Problems which made Alexandrian builders lots of money and cost Trajan one daughter given away in marriage and 200,000 denarii to find restored statue a new home to fix. Call be old fashioned but suspect a Int operation followed by a commando raid on Druid grove to get Eagle back would have gone down well with the Senate, likewise all out attack and perhaps Caladonians surrendering the Eagle rather than watch a couple of thousand of the tribe nailed up would also have gone down well.

But sending some slimy pen pusher to get the Eagle back by fawning all over his Highland hunkness!!! Is not what some parts of Senate (Ok Iberian and old foggy parts) had in mind!

As for point 2 - what the King of Caladonia actually wants I bow to your superior knowledge. But as most Roman players are totally lost about what most of their faction are doing do you know what Merlin and your Druids have in mind?

Ref point 3 and unfrequented love, assume someone who flips between darkest Aberdeenshire and darkest Somerset has more experience of avoiding annoyed ex Girlfriends and this subject than me. Though at one stage all of mine had left the country - nothing to do with me honest! All had good and valid reasons and were not seeking to avoid over powering urge to hit me over the head with something heavy (or so they claimed).

Oooh! I’m glad I’m on this thread….. Agema’s Stable of games [Not to be confused with those fabled stables full of sh*t …..] have bred us some wild ones… talks of girlfriends, the obtuse numbering of Legions ….. its like a 1970’s sit come. Perhaps Love thy Neighbour:x ??

Keep it going Messrs B and No 2 (you sure you’re not from Port Merion?)

But just don’t drag me in to your worrying world wiki.

I’m off for a lie down after all that alliteration. Makes a Mancunian flatulent.

Regor wrote:Oooh! I’m glad I’m on this thread….. Agema’s Stable of games [Not to be confused with those fabled stables full of sh*t …..] have bred us some wild ones… talks of girlfriends, the obtuse numbering of Legions ….. its like a 1970’s sit come. Perhaps Love thy Neighbour:x ??

Keep it going Messrs B and No 2 (you sure you’re not from Port Merion?)

But just don’t drag me in to your worrying world wiki.

I’m off for a lie down after all that alliteration. Makes a Mancunian flatulent.

Oh when it comes to exes, "Fatal Attraction" is nearer the mark than "Love thy Neighbour" and having dated a few horse-y girls, know way too much about stables!

But glad it amused you

But for Mr B, I do know what's in the mind of my character and my Merlin, we're inspired by Asterix-"These Romans are Crazy"

You know, given how Scramble went, maybe Asterix is a good model for Rome...

Oh, I was amused

As for Astérix I always thought the minstrel and Dogmatix were the best…. Those Romans. Tooo predictable.

Keep it coming….

Jason2 wrote:
Oh when it comes to exes, "Fatal Attraction" is nearer the mark than "Love thy Neighbour"   and having dated a few horse-y girls, know way too much about stables!

But glad it amused you

But for Mr B, I do know what's in the mind of my character and my Merlin, we're inspired by Asterix-"These Romans are Crazy"

You know, given how Scramble went, maybe Asterix is a good model for Rome...

Have always played Scramble based on the Flashman books by George MacDonald Frasier but some others have different sources of inspiration including the Carry on Films.

So rather than Ben Hur and Gladiator are you saying that from the wilds north of a yet to be built Hardrians Wall. Rome is now starting to look more like "Carry on Cleo"?

Actually for most of team Rome the question is not so much is our Emperor being dominated by a Sexy Egyptain but more.......How the hell do we ever afford to build Hardrians Wall?????????

In G10 Glori players are saying they are suffering from sickness level inflation. In Rome is burning it is more a case of building cost inflation only no earlier games to compare = confusion.  Not so much "These Romans are Crazy" more "These building costs are crazy"!

Wonder if its Richards way to get players to some worrying about fire regulations, bridges and are the sacred chickens are eating properly.......and back onto what he wants the game to focus on like plotting to murder the Emperor, stabbing your fellow Senators in the back and slaughtering loads and loads of barbarians since the later have all been in fairly short supply.

I've always been more a fan of "Up Pompeii" or "A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum" than "Carry On"

The idea of making Richard write a newspaper that starts with "and now the prologue" does appeal...as does making him report on a "A Comedy Tonight" song and dance routine in the Forum.....oh, a funny thing happppppppeeeeennnnddddded....

Jason2 wrote:I've always been more a fan of "Up Pompeii" or "A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum" than "Carry On"

The idea of making Richard write a newspaper that starts with "and now the prologue" does appeal...as does making him report on a "A Comedy Tonight" song and dance routine in the Forum.....oh, a funny thing happppppppeeeeennnnddddded....

Some Senators who have attended some of Nero singing and Lyre preformances would say this already happens.

Hahahahahahaha……. Now bring on Carry on Cleo.