Agricultural Improvements

There seem to be a ton of agricultural improvements available in game:

Enclosures, Norfolk System, irrigation canals, seed drills, etc.

For those who have experimented with them, any advice or insight?

I have tried enclosures....thats a deal (at the moment) I would like to take back !!. I've had the pain, Im just waiting the benefit and it better be BIG

So lots of social unrest from enclosures?

I was thinking about implementing them, but wondered at the write up that implied that you'd have problems from the small farmers affected.

My economic health score plummeted, and I mean plummeted. To be fair, it was around 6 when I started, and believe me it got stuck at 1 VERY quickly and stayed there for a long time.

It must have some very positive benefits, and historically, one of the outcomes of enclosures in England was a population boom (partnered with other agricultural innovations of course), but I would recommend a couple of national stablilizers before attempting. Have economic health at at least 8 (and be prepared for a big drop) and as a result have financial reserves in your treasury to cover a large drop in revenues during the implementation and while the economy recovers.

Wow. I would have expected honour drop and the like, but the whole point of enclosure was that it improved the economy, not cratered it. weird that it had that effect on you.

Did you do any social things to manage the impact, like poor relief or buying off the poor farmers?

anybody have any experience with nightsoil men brigades and their effects?

I did buy off the poorer and smaller farmers, and released grain supplies held in reserve to help those families displaced. No obvious positive impact BUT to be fair, maybe the impact would have been worse or longer without this help ?

Yep, tried night soil workers as well (recently), 1st year in operation, no obvious impact.

Can you tell Im either rubbish or unlucky at this agricultural stuff ?

I did swamp draining took 2 years but did give me an increase in grain with no problems. Cost a bit tho......

What sort of innovative ways have people come up with (or seen) to pay for canals?

No particular insight on this, but most of the financing schemes I've seen in the game look like a bad idea to me. All were too expensive.

It is possible if you worked at it you might be able to find someone to underwrite canals by tolling them, but I think you're more likely better off to just find the money or borrow directly if you can get a good rate and underwrite it yourself.

Good harvests

I got 40,000 ton grain for each million population in one game with no agricultural improvements at all.

In another game where I had Night soil men, irrigation and potash the result was 60,000 ton, so definitely an effect but nothing massive.

As Spain I usually generate a surplus of 3 billion tons of grain each year; store a proportion but end up burning or giving away the rest before it rots.

3 billion tons seem a lot, where would they grow it all. That could almost feed the modern world.
The most I have ever harvested is about 30 million.

count-de-monet wrote:I have tried enclosures....thats a deal (at the moment) I would like to take back !!. I've had the pain, Im just waiting the benefit and it better be BIG

So, checking back in. Did you have an income period yet and how did it work out?

I was thinking about how enclosures tanked your EH, and wondered if this was a way of increasing recruits without necessarily tanking your income, since the rules do say that when you have a low EH, you get more recruits.

That is really clever thinking as the enclosures put folk out of work - movement to the towns etc etc

Yeah, I was thinking about this, and wondered if the EH on the turn sheet was a bit of misdirection.

It could just mean lots of disruption and people out of work, (IE more recruits), but that the tax revenues aren't necessary trashed.

Enclosures are supposed to be disruptive, but they shouldn't crater your economy...

Doesn't a low EH mean (in some part) you have less than full employment and can re-deploy the workers more efficiently?

As my EH bobbles around 6/7 I'm no expert.

Perhaps a loan to help invest in town improvements - carpenters and road makers would be needed, and market gardeners.

You get my drift?

I have had one income round since the move to enclosures and it was a complete disaster. My EH score was 1 so I wasnt expecting anything but a disaster. The next round is this turn. Enclosures have now been successfully introduced, but EH is only up to 4. So Im not expecting great news again. I suspect that introducing enclosures isnt the only damaging impact at the moment, so it cant all be put down to that, but it is clearly having an impact.

The biggest problem with income, ESPECIALLY taxes is, what can be destroyed in a year can NOT be recovered in a year. In my experience, even going from a EH of 1 in one income round to EH 10 in the next will not recover equilibrium. Damage to tax revenues once done is a long road back to where you were.

In theory enclosures is highlighted as one (there were many) of the main influences on England progressing to the Industrial Revolution before any other nation. I dont expect to get to a IR in my position, but the timeline should suggest a population boom, based on historical fact, which obviously brings benefits to a posiiton.

Bottom line - I would still not go for enclosures. I run more than one position. I have tried enclosures in one of those positions and not even considering it in any others !!

I am not saying others wont be more successful, or should not try it, but my experience isnt good.

Fair points all: I'm in a position where I struggle for recruits (always a battle) so I've been looking for any ways of achieving a surplus of men.....

Perhaps I need an industrial revolution? From your experience best not pin my hopes on it (plus it would be an anachronism)

Thanks for the update, seems my hypothesis is wrong, and enclosures are just very disruptive.

I wonder if you have to have a bunch of other agricultural improvements in place to weather the transition better.

Did you at least get more recruits?

no visible increase in recruits either yet, but again thats to be expected. I do appreciate such a plan is long term.

I do have reports that agricultural workers have been displaced - presuming to towns. If there was to be a population boom it would then probably take a few years to really work its way through to increased recruits.

I remain optimistic (if I keep taking the herbal remedies my court doctor prescribed) most of the time but am prone to fits of depression and outbursts when it dawns on me how badly I have ruined a very good and (once was) strong position.

Enclosures should mean the big landowners get more land, take the common land away from the commoners as well. Larger farms should mean better use of agricultural machinary as well. People should be forced into urban centres from the countryside to look for work, as the countryside cannot support them.

Maybe you need to have certain agricultural improvements in place before enclosure act.

If you have improved plows, seed drills, more resistant crops, better crop rotation, then when the big land owners get there act together then they have the ability to farm more economically and more intensivlly. If they continue with there old methods then you have gained little . So there is no actual improvement.

Also the people forced off the land also need to be fed by a more efficient agricultral base. This will lead to higher food costs, which will also damage EH

Maybe more foundations need to be laid before the Enclouses act is passed.

Also I am not sure as to the difference it will make if you have serfs or free men on the land. Some serfs were tied to the land and sold with it what effect that would have with Enclosures I am not sure, as these people would technically not be able to leave the area to seek other employment without upsetting the social order.If there is no work for them they are simply destitute.

Historically in the long run Enclosures worked, so maybe a long term approach is needed, but also maybe a number of underlying factors must also be ready for the upheaval.

It may also be worth introducing new or hardier crops. There are rules to improve Grain, introduce potatoes, also Sugar beet can be refined to help cut down on reliance on Cane.

If you manage to develop a crop like potatoes/ Sugarbeet/ Swede, that can be used to feed livestock over winter you will then also improve the farming practice in your country as Farmers won't need to slaughter animals at start of winter.

Use of Stud farms can also improve animal quality, fatter pigs, better milk producing cows hens that lay more eggs, the list is long.

3 billion grain, that must be spain in game 3. He had developed hardened wheat and makes todays super agriculture giants look small as he grew wheat literally all over the world in his multitude of colonies.