new book: Peter the Great Humbled: The Russo-Ottoman War of 1711

Might be of use to people? Spotted it over on TMP while making an advert for the weekend job.

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/?id=1996902808

Peter the Great Humbled: The Russo-Ottoman War of 1711

In 1711, Peter the Great, the Tsar of Russia, led a large army of veterans from Poltava
and his other Great Northern War victories into the Balkans. He aimed to humble the
Ottomans in the same way he had the Swedes a few years before. Victory would secure
useful allies in the Balkans, cement Russia's Great Power status and offer Peter the
opportunity to finally gain control over the Swedish king, Charles XII, thus completing
his victory over Sweden. Yet within a few months, the backward Ottomans had forced
the Tsar and his Tsarina and their army of veterans into a humbling surrender near the
Pruth River. The war was the first time that Russia was strong enough to confront the
Ottomans independently rather than as a member of an alliance. It marked an
important stage in Russia's development.

However, it also showed the significant military strength of the Ottoman Empire and the
limitations of Peter the Great's achievements. The war was of significance to the allies of
both the Russians and the Ottomans. It was of course of an even greater importance to all
those directly affected by the war such as the Swedish, the Polish, and the Cossacks, who
had taken refuge from the reverses of the Great Northern War in the Ottoman territory.
It would also bring about the defeat of the Moldavian and Walachian ambitions to shake off
the Ottoman overlordship, elevating Dimitrie Cantemir into the position of a national hero
celebrated to this day by the people of Romania. The book looks at the causes of this little
known war and its course. Using contemporary and modern sources, it examines in detail
the forces involved in the conflict, seeking to determine their size, actual composition, and
tactics, offering the first realistic determination on the subject in English.



Paperback
248mm x 185mm
120 pages
16pp color plates and illustrations
Plus black-and-white maps and illustrations

Available Now From Helion & Amazon

I look forward to reading this book.......the only thing I know for certain about this campaign is that with the Czar & his army outnumbered, outgunned and down to their last couple of days supplies Czar Peter considered that he got off very lightly and was willing to surrender much more than the Grand Vizier demanded.

One can never know for sure what would have happened if the Grand Vizier had killed or captured Peter the Great in 1711 but it would probably have altered history quite a lot.

Think in games of Glori du Roi an Ottoman/Swedish alliance V the Russians is one of the great what if's I would really like to see explored.

Thanks Rozwi, the same series has more coming out in May that I'll have to look at too.
I agree Stuart though it would be interesting if Peter wasn't Czar after 1711 in that scenario.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
I look forward to reading this book.......the only thing I know for certain about this campaign is that with the Czar & his army outnumbered, outgunned and down to their last couple of days supplies Czar Peter considered that he got off very lightly and was willing to surrender much more than the Grand Vizier demanded.

One can never know for sure what would have happened if the Grand Vizier had killed or captured Peter the Great in 1711 but it would probably have altered history quite a lot.

Think in games of Glori du Roi an Ottoman/Swedish alliance V the Russians is one of the great what if's I would really like to see explored.  

Do not provide bad hints mate

Nexus06 wrote:

Stuart Bailey wrote:
I look forward to reading this book.......the only thing I know for certain about this campaign is that with the Czar & his army outnumbered, outgunned and down to their last couple of days supplies Czar Peter considered that he got off very lightly and was willing to surrender much more than the Grand Vizier demanded.

One can never know for sure what would have happened if the Grand Vizier had killed or captured Peter the Great in 1711 but it would probably have altered history quite a lot.

Think in games of Glori du Roi an Ottoman/Swedish alliance V the Russians is one of the great what if's I would really like to see explored.  

Do not provide bad hints mate

Would like to point out I played Ottoman Rumelia for many years while to my annoyance Russia took chunks out of the Ottoman Empire in the East.....through to be fair this was mostly by purchase & diplomacy rather than Military means.

A couple of times it looked like war but it never really happened due to Sultans dropping out and Richards ambition to use the G2 Janissary Corp to totally mess up the Ottoman Empire so I never got to refight the 1711 Campaign.

My totally unproven gut feeling during that game and in later Glori du Roi games was that the only hope Sweden, Poland and the Ottoman's have of stopping the Russian Super Power (in the long run) is if two of the three of these powers co-operate against Russia and what is more they probably need to do it fairly early in the game before the Czar crushes the Old Believers and brings the Cossacks into line.

Peter the Great's historic 1711 campaign was in my view a disaster for three reasons I) He underestimated the potential size of the Ottoman forces and walked into a trap II) The Austrians were busy with the WSS and Persia was having Afghan problems so the Ottomans had no other distractions III) Many of Peters best troops and commanders were still in the North fighting the Great Northern War.

Your chances of getting this line up in Glori is fairly small.......but if you can come up with a better option for a Swedish player to win the Great Northern War or for a Ottoman in one of the many Russo-Ottoman re-fights in Glori. I will be very interested in hearing it?

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Nexus06 wrote:

Stuart Bailey wrote:
I look forward to reading this book.......the only thing I know for certain about this campaign is that with the Czar & his army outnumbered, outgunned and down to their last couple of days supplies Czar Peter considered that he got off very lightly and was willing to surrender much more than the Grand Vizier demanded.

One can never know for sure what would have happened if the Grand Vizier had killed or captured Peter the Great in 1711 but it would probably have altered history quite a lot.

Think in games of Glori du Roi an Ottoman/Swedish alliance V the Russians is one of the great what if's I would really like to see explored.  

Do not provide bad hints mate

Would like to point out I played Ottoman Rumelia for many years while  to my annoyance Russia took chunks out of the Ottoman Empire in the East.....through to be fair this was mostly by purchase & diplomacy rather than Military means.

A couple of times it looked like war but it never really happened due to Sultans dropping out and Richards ambition to use the G2 Janissary Corp to totally mess up the Ottoman Empire so I never got to refight the 1711 Campaign.

My totally unproven gut feeling during that game and in later Glori du Roi games was that the only hope Sweden, Poland and the Ottoman's have of stopping the Russian Super Power (in the long run) is if two of the three of these powers co-operate against Russia and what is more they probably need to do it fairly early in the game before the Czar crushes the Old Believers and brings the Cossacks into line.

Peter the Great's historic 1711 campaign was in my view a disaster for three reasons I) He underestimated the potential size of the Ottoman forces and walked into a trap II) The Austrians were busy with the WSS and Persia was having Afghan problems so the Ottomans had no other distractions III) Many of Peters best troops and commanders were still in the North fighting the Great Northern War.

Your chances of getting this line up in Glori is fairly small.......but if you can come up with a better option for a Swedish player to win the  Great Northern War or for a Ottoman in one of the many Russo-Ottoman re-fights in Glori.  I will be very interested in hearing it?  





 

I have none being Russia, i found your suggestion dangerously good!

The opening move for a swedish player to push down Russia is to ally poland and Ottoman. They all have a win win situation. Sweden saves the Empire, a polish king could recover Smolensk and Kiev (this would empower him with the Polish parlament strongly, even thou the Annexion of Riga and Livonia to the Saxon Electorate or under the direct rule of the Elector seems to be a better option) while Ottomans get to protect the nordern borders and inspire fear to infidels.

But that is also were the strategy might fail. Sweden and Poland could easily team up to face an aggressive Russia, but in that age Russian support against Sweden seems to be prefearable to Saxony, as too many valuable lands in the baltic and in germany are owned by Sweden, while the war against Russia strenghten only the lithuanian ducky, wich is also the most rebellious.

For the Ottoman, a team play is needed, with Anatolian and Rumelian fighting and at least one between Siria and Egypt support the effort. An ottoman war against Russia (with the support of Poland) could encourage Austria and Venice to attack (too good is the situation). Prussia could join, as it has soo much to gain in the baltic.

As always, il tGoK much depends on wich positions are active. In my vision Russia needs an ally in the early game. If Sweden is allied, then is really hard to win. But, Sweden should focus on building defences and alliance network unless really backed up against an alliedless Russia.

Ref alliances both for and against Russia:

An alliance of Russia, Austria, Poland and Venice against all of the the Northern Ottomans would be repeat of the War which Peter the Great has just finished when Glori du Roi starts. Historically it also included some other German States but since they were being distracted by Louis XIV and their troops mostly fought in the pay of Venice not sure they really count.

In Glori if the Ottomans are looking aggressive the above alliance works well for all of the powers in terms of both military & honour. The only power which may have serious doubts about the long term wisdom of defeating the Ottomans is a Pole with a crystal glass.

Russia then allied with the Swedish hating Danes and Saxony-Poland against the Swedes. Getting back Livonia and control of the major Lithuanian Trade routes seems logical to an Elector-King (minus Crystal bowl) and historically it was Augustus who got Peter to attack the Swedes not the other way around. Historically this otherwise cunning and foolproof Saxon plan only failed due to the supreme ability of the Swedish Army and the fact that instead of fighting a 18 year old kid they faced a Beserker and one of the great Battle Captains of the period (even if he was a total nutter). Some Polish players may fancy: "What if Augustus the Strong original plan had worked? And the Commonwealth regains Livonia and the Crown gains huge Prestige from its Victory".

Ref the possible in game alliances which can stop the Czar I think the possible alliances are:

- A version of 1711 which see's Russia fighting Swedes and Ottomans (Never seen this in game)

- A lot of Polish Commonwealth players who decide to co-operate. (Also never seen this in game but early versions of Glori did not split the Commonwealth up & 30,000 Winged Hussars plus 100,000 Cossacks tended to stop any plans ref Partition of Poland dead in their tracks - since those days game has become a lot more historic and to obtain this type of mass now needs probably three if not four Polish/Saxon positions in play).

- A lot of Ottoman players who decide to co-operate. Have seen this in game but only for fairly short periods and not against Russia.

If you are playing Peter and you have a Ottoman Sultan talking about freedom for Cossacks under the protection of the Shadow of God while the Rumelian Ottoman Grand Vizier (me ) and the Bey of Egypt try to out-do Lord Hong and Co in setting new standards of Toading towards the Sublime Porte. This is no doubt a little worrying for Czar Peter esp with the Shah of Persia talking down the Shia/Sunni split and talking up Muslim Brotherhood.

The good news from a Russian viewpoint is that if a pack of militant Ottomans worries the Czar what effect are they going to have on others? So Russia is probably not going to be short of allies.

I expect the only time Russia would be on its own in such circumstances would be if all the anti Ottoman types were involved in a major war in the West or were NPC. Potential for this certainly exists in G10 were everyone is still too tied up over Spain to worry about Russian V Ottoman feuds and up to fairly rescent times in G7 were Poland & Venice were NPC and the Hapsburgs were at War with the French.

a further book on the Russians

The book describes the armed forces of Peter the Great in its entirety, and covers in depth old Russian troops and irregulars, as well as Peter's new standing army (guards, infantry, dragoons, elite units and artillery) and his brand-new force (the navy, with sailing ships and galleys, and marines). Besides the staffing, organization and development of troops, the book gives a detailed account of uniforms, weapons and other material (both conventional and unusual). Training is described using drill manuals and tactical instructions of the period, and fighting methods actually performed on the battlefield are described – based on first-hand accounts and period observations from Russian, Swedish and impartial sources. Pitched battles that often predominate in descriptions of early-18th Century warfare are given their due in the book; however, linear tactics on the field were not the only – nor even the main – type of actions during the Great Northern War, so the author goes into details of the sieges, small war actions, and riverine, lake and naval combats.

The author brings up materials that were unavailable to English-speaking readers and scholars so far, and the book not only contains the author's own research, but is also based on the most recent works of other Russian scholars who specialize in various aspects of the Petrine military history – this makes the book a comprehensive and up-to-date overview of Peter the Great's military force during the Great Northern War (1700-1721). The book is supplemented with numerous contemporary prints and paintings, photos of artifacts and recreated uniform kits, as well as specially-commissioned artwork that has been created by an artist who is knowledgeable in details from that period.

Paperback
248mm x 180mm
304 pages
32pp color plates; black-and-white illustrated, maps

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/?id=1302440879

Cheers Roy, will have to look that up, I forgot it was coming out about now. You're not trying to suggest something for Game 10 are you

Yep. That all nations should declare war on water melons!





I wonder what that right-hand chap is, a pikeman? I note he's also armed with sword and pistol.

I think you are right about the pikeman Roy.

Looking at pictures of reenactors there is someone in similar uniform with a pike, sword and pistol with a group of musketeers. Might not be most reliable as to whether they were with the unit or just a lone pikeman reenactor though.

Will let you know if I come up with anything more concrete than reenactors.

Just spotted this review from a chap who has read the book in question. Just an ordinary bloke, not a professional critic I believe, but it might give some more insight in the work.

https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/2019/03/book-review-peter-great-humbled.html#more

some bloke off the Internet wrote:Second in the list of books I will be reviewing is  is the above-mentioned title. In 1711 Peter the Great, no doubt feeling his oats after his smashing victory at Poltava, embarked on a campaign against the Ottoman Empire with the aim of forcing Charles XII out of the Ottoman domains and detaching a couple of Slavic provinces from Ottoman control. As one could guess from the title things went rather badly for Tsar Peter and his army.

Nicholas Dorrell provides in this slim volume a feast of information regarding the organization, tactics and campaign activities of both the Russian and Ottoman armies. He goes to considerable length to provide an understanding of the strength and organization of the various forces (along with due consideration of the terrible attrition that the unseasonably hot dry weather inflicted on both armies). The sumptuous illustrations and color photographs of uniformed re-enactors provide an excellent idea as to the appearance of the troops. Further information as to the uniforms of the Russian forces uniforms is provided by tables for both the foot and cavalry that details coat colors, facings and such right down to the color of the hat lacing.
     
The text is written in a lively and readable style that made this a single-sitting read. Dorrell opens with an assessment of the strategic situation  then provides a synopsis of the leading characters of both armies before explaining the the strategic situation on the various fronts involved. He then follows event on the Eastern front before switching focus to the Balkan front where the campaign reached its conclusion in the disaster (for Peter) on the Prut River.
   
Battlefield maps are of average quality while the strategic maps are simply horrible. Granted most of the southern Ukraine is fairly flat so there would be little in the way of detailed terrain features, but the total lack of roads, minor rivers, and cities is unforgivable. Armies move along vague arrows with no indication as to where they were on any given date during their months-long march. The reader is left to imagine the countryside (or spend time searching Google Earth for an idea as to the landscape). This is a complaint that I have against almost all military history products of recent vintage and it is simply inexcusable in light of the availability of information in this modern era.
   
In all this is an excellent source of information on a nearly forgotten conflict that came very close to cutting short the reign of Peter the Great. It brings together information that the average gamer would struggle to collect and provides enough information to allow a wargamer to assemble armies and fight the campaign in its entirety.

Very Highly Recommended