The Age of Enlightenment. Game 9.

this game could get interesting afterall !

I did some checking back against my own returns (for France) to check on timings. In later 1704 the Spanish player also transferred the Duchy of Flanders to France and I had a signed treaty. This was not recognised by Richard as the Spanish player dropped. There is a safety net of players transferring assets before dropping.

In January 1705 I was informed

"Flanders have not been transferred, and no treaty has been enacted in time to force this, perhaps on account of the untimely demise of Jose Patino y Rosales before this could occur!"

When I then queried, in February 1705 I was told

"While legally the treaty with Spain has no ability to be enforced, it could be employed in-game as a
moral argument to press for France’s claim to Flanders"

Given that the public notification of the Emperors claim on Milan being transferred in February 1705, timing would suggest that it holds no legal status and given the Peace of Milan, the Duchy of Milan remains Spanish territory - or the Spanish administration has a legal claim. Do they enforce ?

count-de-monet wrote:this game could get interesting afterall !

I did some checking back against my own returns (for France) to check on timings.  In later 1704 the Spanish player also transferred the Duchy of Flanders to France and I had a signed treaty.  This was not recognised by Richard as the Spanish player dropped.  There is a safety net of players transferring assets before dropping.

In January 1705 I was informed

"Flanders have not been transferred, and no treaty has been enacted in time to force this, perhaps on account of the untimely demise of Jose Patino y Rosales before this could occur!"

When I then queried, in February 1705 I was told

"While legally the treaty with Spain has no ability to be enforced, it could be employed in-game as a
moral argument to press for France’s claim to Flanders"

Given that the public notification of the Emperors claim on Milan being transferred in February 1705, timing would suggest that it holds no legal status and given the Peace of Milan, the Duchy of Milan remains Spanish territory - or the Spanish administration has a legal claim.  Do they enforce ?

France and Spain seem to have come to a bit of a fudge on Flanders but back in the early 1700's a common view when the Dowager Queen of Spain was expecting her baby (now Queen of Spain) was that a female could become Queen of Spain but due to Salic Law could not be Duchess of Flanders over male heirs. Bit like Queen Victoria who inherited the UK but not Hanover.

A position which was semi accepted by the then Spanish Government when they swapped the girl with a boy and crowned him King of Spain, Duke of Flanders and Milan etc.

Seem to recall that Spain and Naples were ok with a Queen as Salic law did not apply, Flanders was a no and the jury was out on female inheritence of Milan. As Milan is an Imperial fief guess its up to the Emperor or at least the Aulic Council to decide if a girl can inherit the Duchy of Milan.

The other question is that the Queen of Spain and possible Duchess of Milan is still a minor. As such even if she can inherit it probably falls to the Emperor/Aulic council to deal with the wardship and appoint a Guardian for Milan who would normally be her nearest male relation.... who would be who? (Ok who said that would be the handsome Duke of mmmmmm)

Jan 1708.  The Milanese Question? (I will offer a neutral resume of the the Months goings on,  as I have it on good authority that His Sacred Majesty will make his opinion known on the Milanese question in the proper forum next month.)

1.  Strange going on in colonial New York, a Jail break takes place which may be linked to the notorious pirate Edward Teach.
2.  The Tsar continues to reside at Versailles as the guest of King Louis XIV, he is feeling unwell and has limited his usually vast appetites for wine, women and song until he feels better.  The Tsar’s party have also amazingly restricted their alcohol intake.
3.  The Spanish Ambassador to France demands that King Louis XIV mobilise his forces along the Rhine and in the Alps as part of their treaty of alliance.   The 7 year Austrian occupation of  Milan is apparently the cause of this escalation.
4.  The Spanish Ambassador to the Imperial Diet states that Flanders is still Spanish, despite the French openly stating that it has been intergrated into their nation.  The Emperor calls for Flanders to be expelled from the HRE as it is now a province for France.
5.  The Emperor entertains a delegation of Milanese nobles and pointedly refers to himself as sovereign Duke.  General Count Starhemberg will remain as Governor until stability is restored to the Duchy under the enlightened Rule of the Emperor in the meantime an investment program will be launched and the Milanese Army doubled in size.  The Spanish Ambassador asks to see the Treaty transferring the Duchy to Austria.  The previous month the Emperor donated £1,300,000 of his personal wealth to the Widows and orphans of the Reich and Crown Land.
6.  Tsarevich Alexis continues to act as the champion of the people in his fathers absence, donating alms and food to the poor at the Orthodox Christmas celebrations.
7.  In the Escorial the Cardinal-General launched into his usual verbal barrage, Austria being the victim on this occasion, Milan is eternally Spanish, etc, etc and yet another doll was dropped on cue by the Infanta.  Spanish troops are to be deployed into Morea and Naples ready go to war to liberate Milan.
8.  In Milan we had the bizarre meeting of the Austrian and Spanish Governor Generals,  Count Starhemerg suggested that the Duke of Candia be placed under 24 guard less he be attacked by the Pro-Austrian mob.  The Duke then bolted and has gone into hiding.
9.  Ever the Music lover the Emperor has appointed Stadivari to head the new music academy in Cremona.
10.  The Pope has indicated he would be honoured to host the paragon of the faith that is the Holy Roman Emperor should he wish to visit Rome.
11.  Peace talks continue between the Ottomans and Austria at Karlowitz.
12.  In Sofia the Bey of Rumelia launches into a Cardinal-General style attack on the Doge of Venice, recounting his past black deeds.  Although he will not break the Sultan peace, he warns Spain and Austria not to trust the Venetians.
13.  The Tsar’s tax holiday for his serfs has caused unrest amongst his Kalmyk and eastern vassals.
14.  Lord Fong’s embassies are active in Moghul India and Lord Yea celebrates the Year of the Yellow Earth Rat, whilst presenting suitable gifts to his Emperor, Lord Fong and the King of Korea.
B

Feb 1708, Handbags at Dawn.

1. The Tsar is travelling to St Malo, presumably to travel home after his lengthy tour of Western Europe.
Meanwhile back in Moscow the taxation policy towards kalmucks and Kazahs is clarified. Russian justice has clearly gone soft, a man found guilty of sedition was merely flogged in Astrakhan.
2. The Spanish Ambassador to London has requested that Spanish seamen liberated from the Pirate Teach in New York be released. Apparently they were transported leather shorts to Bavaria, which is landlocked?
3. The relations between Austria and Spain over Milan appear to have reached their nadir. The Emperor can not even bring himself to address the Cardinal-General by his office of state instead referring to him as merely Alberoni. According to the Emperor Spain is in the grip of a corrupt and dishonest Junta presided over by a warmongering compulsive lier with an unhealthy obsession with dolls. The Emperor states he is the legal ruler of Milan in accordance with Salic law and challenges Alberoni to take the case to the Reich courts. The Cardinal-General’s great victories are dismissed as propaganda and the Spanish nobility are called upon to protect the Infanta from the Cardinal-General’s Doll fetish.
4. The Cardinal-General counters by accusing the Emperor of trying to steal his young nieces inheritance and occupying Milan. The Emperor is also accused of abandoning Venice to the Turk and paying tribute to the infidel, as well as kidnapping the Spanish would be Governor of Milan. Unfortunately as if to vindicate the Emperor’s accusations the Infanta again drops a Doll dressed in Austria uniform. In other matters the Cardinal-General announces a massive tax cut and continues to call upon his allies for support Spain over the Milanese Question.
5. The Pretender King James III is to return to France with his Kinswoman to discuss the French marriage proposal and to enquire what happen to the troops King Louis XIV was supposed to send him 2 years ago.
6. The Spanish and Austrians are also in dispute over the status of Flanders in the Imperial diet. The Austrian delegate stating the Spanish have allowed Flanders to be annexed by France and their attempts to say otherwise are beyond belief.
7. Austrian diplomats are active in Tuscany, Venice, Genoa and Savoy, assuring the various rulers that the Emperor will respect their neutrality in any conflict and warning them of Spanish duplicity.
8. The Ottoman’s present a new treaty to the Austrian’s at Karlowitz, whilst a new bow is tested in Belgrade and the Bey of Rumelia prepares to go on pilgrimage to Mecca.
9. A number of crude jokes about the Cardinal-General has been spread about the Reich, apparently they originated in Brunn.
8. The Moghul Empire is active in the Grain selling business, closing deals with Kwantung China and Russia.
9. The Shanghai Lantern festival was cut short due to heavy rains, but not before Rear Admiral Zhang Lin was declared the winner for his Kobukson display. The statues marking the spirt way of the Liang Emperors has been repaired in Dachang. Lord Yea is clearly as very cultured man unlike the paper shuffler Lord Fong.
10. The French have not commented on the Milanese question, but King Louis XIV is probably sitting back with a big box of popcorn laughing his head off, as is King William III. King Charles XII of Sweden will be looking hungrily at Poland and the Pope will be trying to have as little to do with it as possible. Tsar will look on in bewilderment and the Ottomans will calculate how strong they will be in 3 years time.

Spanish-Austrian relations would seem to show that you can pick your friends but you are stuck with family! Though at least G9 has not sunk to the level of G10 were the two sides of the Hapsburg family are only speaking via their lawyers.

Just as well we have cute, cuddly, happy families G7

Tsar peter is having huge fun in this european trip.

First the Holy Roman Emperor provides him troops and beers, then the King of France provides chicks and ships.

Not sure he wants to get back to cold Russia were subjects abuse his kindness and revolt for anything!

Regarding the war of milanese succession, what is the point of playing a war-game without war anyway?

Nexus06 wrote:Tsar peter is having huge fun in this european trip.

but "what is the point of playing a war-game without war anyway?"

Not sure if the above message from the Tsar is more scarry to the Swedes, Poles or Ottomans

But I have noted that some of the eastern positions like Russia, Ottomans, Persia, India are very prone to bandity, religious revolts and other internal problems unless possible trouble makers like Cossacks, Janissary, etc, etc, etc are kept busy and one way to keep peace and tranquility at home is to round up all the trouble makers and find them something interesting to do ideally in a foreign country.

A really, really bloody battle betweem Ottomans and Russians with the Cossacks and Old Style Russian Guards in one front line v The Jannissary Corp and the more wild Shia influenced horsemen from Eastern Anatolia could see internal peace in both Empires for a generation.

For players who think this is a bit extreme. In G7 the Shah of Persia decided against leading a Shia host on Jihad into India or against the Sunni Ottomans which can be high risk and instead has waged a lesser "Naval Jihad" against the French. Generally very low level but it allows the Shah to claim the title of Ghazi resulting in internal peace in Persia and a major gain to Persian recuiting as Shia dervishers wonder across Central Asis, India, Eastern Anatolia and Africa. Their latest triumph the conversion of tens of thousands of African slaves of the French to Shia Islam.

Oddly Persian attempts to build up a Navy and send their possible trouble makers too sea seem to have resulted in a lot less of them being drowned than Russian efforts.

Nexus06 wrote:Tsar peter is having huge fun in this european trip.

First the Holy Roman Emperor provides him troops and beers, then the King of France provides chicks and ships.

Not sure he wants to get back to cold Russia were subjects abuse his kindness and revolt for anything!

Regarding the war of milanese succession, what is the point of playing a war-game without war anyway?

True, Game 9 has been mostly pacific, I can’t remember a single field battle, just a few skirmishes and Sieges. Rather difficult for Austria and Spain to get at each other unless the French came in. As a wise Prussian once said “No plan survives the first contact with the enemy”.

If Spain and Austria want to fight I assume they will do as they did historically in the 1720's and 1730's and just totally ignore the minor Italian States esp Venice and the Papal States other than as somewhere nice to look at on their line of march to Milan etc since the 5 men and a dog which make up the Papal States military is hardly going to stand in front of the Spanish Army and the Inn Keepers who run Venice will tend to view it all as a business opportunity.

On the basis that the Austrians keep their Hussars and other wild types under control I think various Innkeepers and Church poor boxes on the main north south roads should do very well indeed.

After all the Russians, Swedes, Irish or French on a bad day are not yet involved and these are two sides of very civilized chaps meeting to settle a point of honour to prove by might of arms before God that:

a) The Queen of Spain is also the true Duchess of Milan and that the Emperor is a wicked uncle out to steal his little neices inheritence.

or

b) The Emperor is a heroic defender of tradition, law and order in the Holy Roman Empire. If overmighty and somewhat slippery clergy are able to overturn the Salic Law on inheritence because it is not "convient" where would we be? Would any man's life and property be safe?

Have to admitt that compared to some recent wars such as the "War of the broken dredger contract" the "King Louis called me a Turk and said I should do what the Sultan told me, then refused to say sorry - War" (It makes sence to the Shah of Persia honest) and the recent French invasion and conquest of Genoa on basis that a bank in Genoa MAY have been misused by French crooks when getting the loot out of the country. The War of the Milanese Succession has a very nice logic too it with both causes set up very well and with a clear result in mind.

Though I suspect that could become rather more complex esp in the French get involved.

After reading about Ottoman NPC ministers binning a treaty with France which would have paid them £2m to help build the Red Sea canal and reading about the Mk 2 Treaty between Austria and the Ottomans in which even though the Austrian diplomatic position (ref Spain & France) is getting worse by the month Ottoman NPC ministers have totally abandoned aother £2m for the Red Sea canal. I am reminded of the treaty of Saint Petersburg signed by NPC Russian ministers to end the great Northern War in G7.

And have come up with the following theory about NPC ministers:- Basically if they are looking after a position which is unlikely to be taken over they continue to follow the position set out by the last player and generally do a good job of parting PC Emperor's and the like from their cash.

But if its a team position which active players or a position that is likely to be taken on then they turn the Sultan (or other rulers) policy on its head and replace it with 100% focus on really really annoying the vassels and making sure any new player picks up a diplomatic nightmare and a very full in tray.

So if anyone takes over the Sultan in G9 (Its still on honour list and its one of Jason's so its probably in fairly good position) rather than £4m in the treasury you get a pissed off Bay of Egypt and Layerbay of Rumelia who are wondering why the change in policy and what happened to the cash they were promised? Which is probably going to take you a couple of weddings at £100,000 a pop to fix. Plus you have the joy of a green light from Austria to take back the Morea - pity about the Papist alliance set up by the Pope, most of Italy and Spain to stop you and the fact that your Layerbay who might have been handy for this campaign is so niggled by your diplomatic corp abandoning the agreed plan that he is now sulking on a pilgrimage.

Finally with Austria on verge of war with France and Austria why did they sign a five year non aggression treaty rather than three? Is it because they are worried that you might consider dishonourable conduct like waiting for Austria to get bogged down in the west and take French or Spanish money to liberate Hungary? Rather then trying to liberate the Morea?

Have other players noticed NPC ministers who's treaties seem designed to stop you getting bored as you try and figure out the nightmare they dropped on your desk?

I can not believe my attempts to get a treaty and support to the Ottomans is proving so difficult ! Can I blame, in no particular order;

Richard
The English
The Austrians
The Emperor (specifically)
The Pope
The Dutch
The Swedish
The Huguenots
The Spanish Doll making company
Russian vodka

who have I missed ?

The pisspot boy

Russian Vodka can be tricky, that is for sure!

What has the Emperor done? And aren’t the Austrians and his Sacred Majesty the same thing?

March 1708. The House of Habsburg breaks.

1. Spain has declared war on Austria over the ownership of the Duchy of Milan, wether this will lead to a general European war is open to question. Conflicts in Game 9 have thus far been fairly bloodless affairs , excepting the odd siege, naval engagement or colonial skirmish.
2. The view laid forth by the Cardinal-General is that the Emperor is a mad and possibly senile old man who has stolen the inheritance of his niece the Infanta Christiana. Unsurprisingly Dolls were involved. The uses of intemperate language is a common tactic of the Cardinal-General and has been quickly forgotten when the political wind changes.
3. The Emperor thinks even mentioning the Cardinal-General is beneath his dignity and has established a separate office to refute the claims being made in Madrid. The Emperor’s Son King Joseph, met with the current Spanish ambassador and laid out the treaty with Venice which transferred Milan to Austria, as well as providing evidence of the Cardinal’s deceit. The Ambassador promptly resigned in disgust. On a lighter note the new Piano forte is incorporated into the Imperial Orchestra to great acclaim.
4. Austria and Spain are also at daggers drawn in the Imperial Diet over the status of Flanders. Austria is still calling for the Duchy to be expelled from the HRE as Spain has effectively sold it to France.
5. The Tsar has been enjoying wine, woman, song and Naval warfare in St Malo.
6. King Louis XIV has been somewhat equivocal in his support of Spain over Milan, stating he is treaty bound to support Spain if it’s claim to Milan is legal. He then states he has pledged to the Emperor he will not attack Austria or the Reich, but has 250,000 men within easy marching distance?
7. King Charles XII and his new bride are in Prussia, whilst one of his officials in Mittua questions the legal status of Polish Royal Prussia.
8. The Venetians welcome the Cardinal-General offer to defend their eastern territories and attempts to reform the Holy League.
9. The Pope call upon the Catholic powers of Europe to form a Holy league against the Turk. The Holy father asks the catholic powers of Europe not to make war on each other and offers to host talks between Austria and Spain in Rome, pointedly asks Spain not to invade Milan.
10. The Turks announce a 5 year non-aggression pact with Austria, which is just as well for Emperor Leopold given the events in the west.
11. In far off Shantung Prince Yea has made a large payment from his own purse to ensure that the effects of the recent famine and economic downturn do not prevent the people from enacting the Emperor’s will. The Blue Dragon Festival is held in the rice growing centre of Wuhu.

Goldstar wrote:March 1708.  

1.  Spain has declared war on Austria over the ownership of the Duchy of Milan. Conflicts in Game 9 have thus far been fairly bloodless affairs.

Dont worry, I am sure G9 can do better this time

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Goldstar wrote:March 1708.  

1.  Spain has declared war on Austria over the ownership of the Duchy of Milan.  Conflicts in Game 9 have thus far been fairly bloodless affairs.

Dont worry, I am sure G9 can do better this time

Looks like I was wrong over G9 doing it better this time:-

I) Seems that the Czar has a mutual defence pact with the Emperor which both he and the Emperor have signed........but he is now getting cold feet at the thought of having to shot his French hosts and wondering if he can avoid having to honour this treaty due to a third party the Elector of Saxony/King of Poland not having signed.

With the King of Sweden saying lots of strange things and threatening to send his "administrators" into Royal (Polish) Prussia think that as soon as Augustus the Strong gets over his latest hang over the King of Poland may be reaching for a pen held out to him by the Imperial Envoy.

2) Meanwhile the French have also gone to their lawyers and everyone (even the Czar) has gone to the Pope to check if Milan is Spanish aggression against Austria or if its Austrian aggression against Spain.

- Original position accepted even by the Spanish Government when it tried to switch the girl miracle baby with a boy not so miracle baby was that while a Girl could inherit Spain and Naples (as per Queen Isabella etc) she could not inherit Flanders due to Salic law.  Though this cut and dry position over Flanders seems to have been confused by the agreement between France and Spain which implies the French Duke ruling Flandes is in place due to an early "Dowry" rather than because he is a distant male heir.

- However the question of Milan never came up due to the fact that the then government of Spain sold it too Venice before King Carlos was even cold.
The Emperor is now saying that Milan like Flanders is part of the Empire and Salic law applies so the Infanta can not inherit and as the Feudal Superior of the Duchy the fief reverted to him and he can give it to anyone he wants including himself.  It is assumed but not yet proven that the Emperor hand picked Aulic Council will support him.

- While the Spanish are saying that Salic Law only allies in "Frankish lands" and Milan is not "Frankish" so Salic Law does not apply and the Imperial take over is blatent Imperial aggression against them which invokes their mutual defence treaty with France.

3) As said earlier the French are consulting their lawyers to see what the position is.  Now French lawyers are normally all in favour off French/Frankish law being pushed as far as possible but in this case in the Italian wars the French Claim to Milan was via a female (well actually two females) so I think after a long and very, very expensive delay the famous French lawyers of Sue, Grabit and Runne which decide in favour of the Infanta.  While the Aulic Council lawyers will rule for the Emperor and after a really, really expensive delay the Papal Lawyers who opposed the original French claim to Milan will favour the Emperor unless a certain Cardinal holds a lot of really juicy blackmail material.

In Conclusion the totally neutral opinion of the Bristol Legal Firm of Bailey, Bailey and Bailey is that France, Spain and Austria have valid cases they can sale too their own people while the Czar is well and truely stuffed if he tries to avoid his treaty obligation to defend Austria just because its the wrong type of foe and will be forever damned as a coward by the Cossacks and an Oath breaker by everyone else if he does not fight.

But perhaps he can just fight really hard to protect Good King Augustus from the vile Swedes and send a really really slow siege tryne to help defend Vienna.  If he times it right Riga and other parts of the Baltic could be iced over and cut off from the French and Spanish Navies efforts to save them just as the Czar Siege guns smash a hole in the walls.

Now you have got the fast and cheap legal position from Bristol.........any chance of G9 just getting on with the war properly or have we got to wait for more Lawyers and probably someone wanting to propose a peace conference!  Still think anyone who proposes peace talks before a single proper battle or siege should have their honour score cut by 75% and their trade by 50% due to being a proven Coward who no one would talk too in the C18.

Just to make things clear fro the Tsar's point of View, as sometimes language fails me Never suggested the Pope as an option to settle the quarrel between Austria and Spain. It's a wise idea to search for the earthly representative of God, but he sits in Moscow and is not sure the heretic bishop of Rome. Also Prince Menshikov has pointed out it would be easier for Russian Armies to know who is the foe before attacking something.

Nexus06 wrote:Just to make things clear fro the Tsar's point of View, as sometimes language fails me Never suggested the Pope as an option to settle the quarrel between Austria and Spain. It's a wise idea to search for the earthly representative of God, but he sits in Moscow and is not sure the heretic bishop of Rome. Also Prince Menshikov has pointed out it would be easier for Russian Armies to know who is the foe before attacking something.

Your English is a lot better than most players Italian and it has to be admitted that I sometimes may "mis-understand" things to fit the story (cry of only about 99% of the time from Papa Clement). However in this case the Russian statement the "The Patriarch of Rome has offered his services in his mater, and since Spain has already called him to judge over he rights of he Infanta, he should be called to judge again concerning his argument." Does read a lot like Russia is saying the matter of Milan should be referred to the Pope.

However if the Czar is now saying that this is a error by some court flunkey and translator and that Holy Mother Russia would never want anything referred to the heretic bishop of Rome.......happy to accept this is the true position and not some newspaper report which fibs about the Russian Government. I am sure we have all read Agema Publications with cries of "I never said that! Or I did not mean it to come out that way."

Perhaps if the Czar is looking for a good unbiased Orthodox viewepoint he should refer the matter to the Patriarch of Constantinople for guidance? Though he is a sort of Ottoman NPC and the Sultan is now busy moaning about Ottoman NPC's and his diplomatic corp in particular taking Hapsburg bribes.

As for who Prince Menshikov should consider shooting what is wrong with traditional view that:

a) Anyone in a furry hat.

b) Anyone wearing "Wings"

c) And anyone in blue and gold.

Is suspect and should be shot at some stage.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Nexus06 wrote:Just to make things clear fro the Tsar's point of View, as sometimes language fails me Never suggested the Pope as an option to settle the quarrel between Austria and Spain. It's a wise idea to search for the earthly representative of God, but he sits in Moscow and is not sure the heretic bishop of Rome. Also Prince Menshikov has pointed out it would be easier for Russian Armies to know who is the foe before attacking something.

Your English is a lot better than most players Italian and it has to be admitted that I sometimes may "mis-understand" things to fit the story (cry of only about 99% of the time from Papa Clement).  However in this case the Russian statement the "The Patriarch of Rome has offered his services in his mater, and since Spain has already called him to judge over he rights of he Infanta, he should be called to judge again concerning his argument." Does read a lot like Russia is saying the matter of Milan should be referred to the Pope.

However if the Czar is now saying that this is a error by some court flunkey and translator and that Holy Mother Russia would never want anything referred to the heretic bishop of Rome.......happy to accept this is the true position and not some newspaper report which fibs about the Russian Government.  I am sure we have all read Agema Publications with cries of "I never said that!  Or I did not mean it to come out that way."

Perhaps if the Czar is looking for a good unbiased Orthodox viewepoint he should refer the matter to the Patriarch of Constantinople for guidance?  Though he is a sort of Ottoman NPC and the Sultan is now busy moaning about Ottoman NPC's and his diplomatic corp in particular taking Hapsburg bribes.

As for who Prince Menshikov should consider shooting what is wrong with traditional view that:

a) Anyone in a furry hat.

b) Anyone wearing "Wings"

c) And anyone in blue and gold.

Is suspect and should be shot at some stage.

I didn't remember the line you quote, but i think i must commit more time to prepare the turn since i made the Tsar say something like that! Oh Dear i'm getting old! But really you have to red this with a tone of detached interest.

anyway, touche! You were right, i was wrong. Apologize for that.

Concerning the patriarch of Constantinople. The vision of the tsar concerning religion is simple and clear:

1. pray whoever you want until you pay taxes
2. no need for a patriarch really
3. priest are taxpayer clothed differently

Hi Everibody

I'm in the process of reading and translating the journal, and i felt the urge to express my personal admiration for our fellow Spanish Player. Not for his cunning plan nor for the ability in handling the economy (reduced taxes and opened hospitals, nice move anyway).

I usually take great amusement in reading the journal, but the theatrical lyricism or the Spanish government meetings, all the dolls stuffs, and the dialogues, are amazing to me! I'm sure no warmer, and some will enjoy much pleasure in reading of armies drills and naval battles, or so on. Everyone enjoy this game from his or her personal point of view, but to me reading Spain is really a pleasure.

Thus thank you for the effort mate! (even if translation is painful sometimes! but i think now i've learned the word "fib" in all it's declinations!!!)

NB: A note has to be said, as the Sultan's pen this time has been also very pleasant to read!

Nexus06 wrote:Hi Everibody

I'm in the process of reading and translating the journal, and i felt the urge to express my personal admiration for our fellow Spanish Player. Not for his cunning plan nor for the ability in handling the economy (reduced taxes and opened hospitals, nice move anyway).

I usually take great amusement in reading the journal, but the theatrical lyricism or the Spanish government meetings, all the dolls stuffs, and the dialogues, are amazing to me! I'm sure no warmer, and some will enjoy much pleasure in reading of armies drills and naval battles, or so on. Everyone enjoy this game from his or her personal point of view, but to me reading Spain is really a pleasure.

Thus thank you for the effort mate! (even if translation is painful sometimes! but i think now i've learned the word "fib" in all it's declinations!!!)

NB: A note has to be said, as the Sultan's pen this time has been also very pleasant to read!

If you like write up's in the style mentioned above you probably should give "Rome is Burning" a try.............no one understands what half of them actually mean but after some of the recent back stabbing in the Senate we are expecting the Gov of Syria to hit new heights of rhetoic and oratory!!! Indeed it will probably be recorded in Latin records and quoted by the Cardinal-General the next time he is being betrayed, vexed and generally upset.

No mention of any dolls yet but probably only a matter of time before northern Druids and the proto-Viking Witch Queen start to stab corn dolls with sharp objects and put them in the fire.

Cheers all of you

This turn is really amazing, basically everybody is going against everybody. Even Switzerland is mobilizing.
It seems that we have moved from "Age of Enlightenment" to "Age of Engagement".

Just to know, is anyone willing to include the Chinese players into some wars, just to let them feel tey are part of the game too?

also, this is what you are fighting for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud2LKuZV6ws

Nexus06 wrote:Cheers all of you

This turn is really amazing, basically everybody is going against everybody. Even Switzerland is mobilizing.
It seems that we have moved from "Age of Enlightenment" to "Age of Engagement".

Just to know, is anyone willing to include the Chinese players into some wars, just to let them feel tey are part of the game too?

also, this is what you are fighting for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud2LKuZV6ws

So what you are saying is that Spain and Austria are in dispute over is lots of the most flat & fertile farmland in Europe and a (by C18th standards) "A" class roads which form a nexus for many key trade routes.

If if you think the Lombard plain looks a bit bleak in winter (sure it looks much nicer in summer) you forget that most of the people reading are North European. If you think this looks bleak you have clearly never been in Flanders, the North German plain, Salisbury plain, most of the Ukraine or the South Wales coastal plain in Winter. Where is your horizontal sleet for starters? Plenty of wars over lands which totally lack the charm of Northern Italy.

As for including the Chinese player in some wars clearly this is the job of Russia or the Shogan. Only problem being that in any war over Siberia you probably loss 100 too sickness and desertion etc for every man lost in action. Another Japanese Invasion of Korea could be interesting for the political disputes between the Manchu players as they try and work out who gets the honour of leading the effort to throw them out.

In one game of Glori the player character Shogan did invade Korea but just as things were starting to warm up they dropped out of the game. Nippon armies sent on that campaign were pretty substantial. If they had continued to make progress wonder what the Manchu Emperor (Agema) would have thrown at them? Esp when you consider that Manchuria is the Manchu homeland and real power base. The positions we see in Glori being basically 2nd class Manchu Mandarian's in the most recent and backwoods provincies of the Empire (From a Manchu point of view). Sent out with a few 3rd class Bannermen to keep piracy and Ming loyalists under a control.

When the Shogan did invade Korea in the 1590's the later Ming relief Army was at least 200,000 strong. The Early Manchu were a lot stronger and much more Northern than the Ming dynasty so invasion of Korea by a Shogan in Glori is really a "are you feeling lucky.....punk" moment. Think someone should give it a go! Would be easily the largest battles seen in Glori.

Problem is most players interesting in running far east positions do not seem that interested in the military part of the game. Which is odd when you think that the Shogan is a military dictator and the Manchu Governors are amongst the leaders of a foreign army which has only just conquered most of China.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Nexus06 wrote:Cheers all of you

This turn is really amazing, basically everybody is going against everybody. Even Switzerland is mobilizing.
It seems that we have moved from "Age of Enlightenment" to "Age of Engagement".

Just to know, is anyone willing to include the Chinese players into some wars, just to let them feel tey are part of the game too?

also, this is what you are fighting for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud2LKuZV6ws

So what you are saying is that Spain and Austria are in dispute over is lots of the most flat & fertile farmland in Europe and a (by C18th standards) "A" class roads which form a nexus for many key trade routes.

If if you think the Lombard plain looks a bit bleak in winter (sure it looks much nicer in summer) you forget that most of the people reading are North European.  If you think this looks bleak you have clearly never been in Flanders, the North German plain,  Salisbury plain, most of the Ukraine or the South Wales coastal plain in Winter.  Where is your horizontal sleet for starters?  Plenty of wars over lands which totally lack the charm of Northern Italy.

As for including the Chinese player in some wars clearly this is the job of Russia or the Shogan.  Only problem being that in any war over Siberia you probably loss 100 too sickness and desertion etc for every man lost in action.  Another Japanese Invasion of Korea could be interesting for the political disputes between the Manchu players as they try and work out who gets the honour of leading the effort to throw them out.

In one game of Glori the player character Shogan did invade Korea but just as things were starting to warm up they dropped out of the game.  Nippon armies sent on that campaign were pretty substantial.  If they had continued to make progress wonder what the Manchu Emperor (Agema) would have thrown at them?  Esp when you consider that Manchuria is the Manchu homeland and real power base.  The positions we see in Glori being basically 2nd class Manchu Mandarian's in the most recent and backwoods provincies of the Empire (From a Manchu point of view).  Sent out with a few 3rd class Bannermen to keep piracy and Ming loyalists under a control.  

When the Shogan did invade Korea in the 1590's the later Ming relief Army was at least 200,000 strong.  The Early Manchu were a lot stronger and much more Northern than the Ming dynasty so invasion of Korea by a Shogan in Glori is really a "are you feeling lucky.....punk" moment.  Think someone should give it a go! Would be easily the largest battles seen in Glori.

Problem is most players interesting in running far east positions do not seem that interested in the military part of the game.  Which is odd when you think that the Shogan is a military dictator and the Manchu Governors are amongst the leaders of a foreign army which has only just conquered most of China.  

Northern italy is plain and fertile for sure, also a big place if you like to fight between rivers. By personal opinion, Southern Italy is much better (For Spain surely, as it is the closest place where you historically could build decent ships).

Not sure why Russia should throw herself against china, Russian wars in the east are usually as wrong as trying to invade Russia. Personally i'll leave the task to the Shogun, being much more oriented to western wars.

Gents,
Out of courtesy just letting you know I’ve left the game. Good luck to France and Russia, I think you are aware of my reasons. It was a tough decision, but it’s time to go. Thanks Goldstar