Game 10

Another well played hand Deacon

Nice that the Poles have released Augustus the Strong from having to rule their Nation, obviously they thought he would be better suited pushing for a chunk of the Spanish Empire.

Wonder what happened to the Savoys Cardinal, has he upset someone by saying get out of that Papal fiefdom, or it'll be time for the comfy chair & the goat!

Certainly not the calm before the Storm kind of turn I was expecting, Said strom being the Papal judgement on the Spanish Succession Crisis that has gripped G10.

Although it looks like a few people have already seen a copy of the settlement, judging by the amount of land grabbing/ Title swapping & general , no I wan tto be king statements. Interesting it has taken so long for people to decide that they don't want the other side to get it all.

Bit put out sent 4 million tulip bulbs via my ambassador to Paris for the Sun Kings gardens & didn't even get a mention in the papers, surely this is much more interesting news than the crisis in Spain! Maybe we need a gardening section of the Gazzeteer.

Also told my ambadssador to Spain couldn't find the Butterfly he way looking for because it wasn't "discovered" until 1758! Oh the troubles of being a lepidopteran in Spain.

Stuart’s response that a coronation is not required for a king to be a king is 100% correct. And whatever political posturing takes place, simply Phillipe of Anjou has the best legal/dynastic claim to the crown of Spain. It is immaterial what the Pope says on the matter, and whilst from a 21st century game we might think that a Pope could make a disposention on the matter, in reality that can’t make up a new claimant or heir to the throne. If they were to do this they would face antagonism from the whole catholic world in fear that the Pope could tear up legitimate inheritances. In 1700 France really did not care that much what the Pope said because of the establishment of the Gallic Church which gave Catholicism in France a steer and appointment of church positions. In many ways similar to the Church of England but with the doctrine remaining Catholic. France has tried to be reasonable and fair in the settlement of the Spanish Succession. It offered the crown of Spain to the Hapsburg for them to reject it and now that Phillipe with heavy heart tacks up the mantle of the crown they go rushing to Spain to claim it now. France supported Genoa to become the governor of Naples only to see Genoa turn traitor and turn to the Hapsburg after previous claims of loyalty to the Bourbin cause.
France is willing to work for peace but has found its offers thwarted. France also has honour obligations to stand by its allies which will supersede any settlement coming from Rome.Milan will be governed by the Duke of Savoy as the Governor for Phillipe and Flanders will be governed by the Forbin French faction until the last drop of French blood. This is not indented to be fighting talk or posturing, just an endeavour to give everyone clarity on what is the French line in the sand. Sorry to all if that sounds belligerent, and this is probably due to a current lack of sleep by the author.

I feel Basileus’ pain from a G9 standpoint !!

I agree that the Pope cannot enforce a settlement. How could he? With what force?

But I think even in France the words of the Pope carry great weight. That there are checks on his political power in the Gallic Church doesn't mean the power of his word stops at the border.

You may have a good argument for who occupies the throne of Spain, but since both Austria and France are keen to seize other properties that were Spanish until recently I think the argument begins to fall apart.

If this gets put to the test, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I am enjoying the spectacle, even as I am more than a bit distracted by my own affairs. (Thank you Marshal for the kind words).

I wouldn't say your post is belligerent Basileus, just a good clear statement of where you stand Completely understand your position and if I were France, I would feel the same I am sure.

My position remains unchanged to be honest (I am not overly fussed who is on the throne if we can avoid a war for now and no one ends up too powerful as a result). I doubt I will be swayed by what the Pope says (trying to remember Stalin's supposed quote about the power of the Pope) and, if I were really honest, I am a bit uncomfortable with someone taking on a position (based on statements in the paper, etc I am 100% convinced the Pope is now active, this is not Richard) in the game and the first thing they do is basically tell the rest of the players they will decide on the matter with the presumption that their word is final.

Yes, I know there were in-game requests for the Pope to intervene but that was when we knew that no one was active as Pope so it was a request for an NPC/Richard intervention or (to be cynical) a request players knew would not be answered. There is nothing wrong with an active player being asked to decide on the matter and make that decision but, well, that's not where we are. In-game we could have asked Poland to do so, afterall Deacon had organised peace talks to resolve it, and I feel we would (by and large) have been happy with such a decision if we had made that request. But that is not where we are, if I were playing a Catholic power I think I would object to the Pope's decision on principle. That's because we have come to know and respect Deacon's actions in game and (for myself) would see his position making a balanced impartial decision. The Pope does not have a track record in G10, we have no idea of their motives or whether they are impartial.

Maybe it's just me, I can't imagine joining in a game and having such an ego that I think I can start bossing everyone else around straight away

To follow up Jason's comment, I'd add for reference that the peace conference in Rome was NEVER an Agema peace conference where a decision could be 'enforced' upon players.

When I called it and asked the Holy Father to co-host it, I was clear that all we would do was to create a venue and an opportunity for parties to work out their differences and come to an accord. Or not.

While I expect the Pope's words to have weight, no party to the conference agreed that they would be bound by whatever came out of the conference before going in. I wasn't going to ask players to submit to such terms, and wouldn't have expected agreement to do so if I had.

So don't take my comments about the power of a Papal 'decision' as anything other than the force of moral authority that the Pope always has when he uses that power legitimately. The Pope has no particular legal authority to make or bind anybody to whatever decision he makes. He's an arbiter, nothing more. Just as Poland is/was.

In the end, I think parties weren't really that interested in using the venue, so nothing really came out of it. All good by me. The peace conference increased my turn fees trying to drive dialogue without much results, so I'm happy to save my pennies!

It looks to me like the next step is probably war. I guess we'll see. I have no particular insight on that, just that seems to be the natural consequence of the events that are unfolding.

At the second table, just inside the alcove, the Steward faces off against the King/ Elector. After a few rapid hands, a significant pot fills the table... the Steward is called, and lays three kings & two jacks on the table. The King/ Elector looks at his hand & begins to sweat...

Meanwhile, back @ the Spanish Succession table, a few have folded, but most are still in. Everyone checks their cards... it looks like a play through till sunrise.

If the Papal States is now player controlled perhaps the new player is experienced and has a good knowledge of the period; reason enough to reserve judgement for a number of months. And he gave us a reasonable number of months to submit our claims.

Naturally I disagree that France has the primary claim given that while the Spanish branch of the House of Hapsburg was extinguished on the death of Carlos II, the Austrian branch survives and naturally has the best legal claim. Mediation from whatever source is welcome, although nothing is certain and I won't post my strategy on the forum; that's best kept for in game letters

In poker terms I have a Royal flush  

Whomever is playing the Pope, after reading the letter that they sent Rozwi I'd be confident to say that they're an experienced hand at the game.

The written content of the piece certainly suggested a good knowledge of game matters, and the map to highlight the geographic positions of Europe-and-Africa Rome-and-Rozwi offered a good grasp of RPG understanding. Also, the suggestions on how to tackle cultural and language barriers between historic Tribal Africa and Europe offered a suggestion that definite thought had been put into working within the methods of the game, on how to ease past any GM spanners-in-the-works before they might arise.

I'd wager that this Pope will offer something challenging to all parties concerning the Spanish question.

It seems we are all getting a bit excited about the new Pope, Personally I have always tried to give new players a bit of breathing space & if I can help & encourage them, No matter what  the New Pope player is , be he an old player returning to the fold, a player transfering across from another game or if we are lucky a brand new untarnished player. He deserves the right to be given a chance in game like the rest of us, he is a paying customer of Agema like the rest of us & like us all wants to have an enjoyable experience whilst playing his hobby.

I would most humbly suggest we wait a few months let the new player interact with us & see how things progress from there, but the least we can do is give him a chance.

Yes itwill be different( maybe more difficult?) to play in a game with an active Papacy, but I am looking on it as a learning experience.


As for a poker hand, Probably just going to bluff it all the way , problem is you'll never know am I bluffing, Or do I have all five aces

What follows is the Flora and Fauna supplement from this month's The Rozwi Indaba - The Voice of Africa

Papilio oenone [Linnaeus, 1758]

The Blue Pansy

Melanitis leda [Linnaeus, 1758]

The Common Evening Brown

Vanessa cardui [Linnaeus, 1758]

The Painted Lady

Acraea encedon [Linnaeus, 1758]

The Common Acraea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Linnaeus

"There is always something new out of Africa"

Looks like a new net is in order , plus shiney new pins. Looks like Frederick van Pftenne needs to go to Africa. A buttterfly safari......

J Flower wrote:It seems we are all getting a bit excited about the new Pope, Personally I have always tried to give new players a bit of breathing space & if I can help & encourage them, No matter what the New Pope player is , be he an old player returning to the fold, a player transfering across from another game or if we are lucky a brand new untarnished player. He deserves the right to be given a chanc ein game like the res tof us, he is a paying customer of Agema like the rest of us & like us all wants to have an enjoyable eperience whilst playing his hobby.

I would most humbly suggest we wait a few months let the new player interact with us & see how things progress from there, but the least we can do is give him a chance.

Yes it iwll be different ot play in a game with an active Papacy, looking on it as a learning experience.


As for a poker hand, Probably just going to bluff it all the way , problem is you'll never know!

I think Mr Flower is bang on on the chap playing the Papacy. Let’s give him a chance to settle in.
Even if he suggests handing Naples & Sicily over to XYZ, I’ll take it in good spirits & play a polite counter, without getting too excited. Ultimately we are all paying a few bob for a bit of entertainment., & I always bear in mind less players equals less cash for Riccardo. & when it drops below a certain level of players, I can see a game getting tinned by Dicky.
G10 is a thousand miles away from that outcome, but I can see one of our Games is drifting that way.


Sent from Topic'it App

Did okay I won't be spending much though save for mining, working on a new trade product drinking alcohol a small investment for now and trading in Africa. Once my April expenses are paid I can see what I have to spend on new things or what I can save for a rainy day.

Anybody got any predictions for the year 1703?

horseless carriages ?

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Anybody got any predictions for the year 1703?

My predicitions for 1703 include:

i) The Pope is going to call a crusade against the Duc of Savoy.

Lucky my character is a good Gallician Catholic so only have to pay attention to the Pope of Spiritual matters concerning solvation. Well if its good enough for Saint Louis its good enough for me.

ii) The Papacy is going to come out at both Pro Jacobite & Anti-French which will increase Fire Insurance rates in Rome and cause King Louis XIV to consider making Forbin Bishop-Elect and Chairman of a Church Council.

iii) Think the Duc of Anjou will lose interest in inheriting the Papal Fiefs of Sardinia and Naples to avoid having to take any oaths of loyalty to the Pope. The attitude of the Papacy will also sink his cause in Spain. This means he basically cashes in his chips for Flanders, Milan and the Kingdom of Sicily plus a few colonies and tries to retreats to the Bar with a TV to watch the Charles v Pedro match.

The question is does he get to the comfy seats or does someone try and mug him on route?

iv) Final table comes down to Pedro Mark II backed by the Maritime Powers & Cartile V Charles von Hapsburg backed by Aragon & the Italian Hapsburgs fan club.

- But will Charles have the backing of his dear old Dad?

- Will anyone at the final table give a Corsair a job? Some of us would like to fight for the legitimate Catholic heir (nothing to do with gold shipments from Brazil:D ) but can we be trusted anywhere near Hapsburg Troop Shipments of Tuscan Frigates?

In other affairs

V) Dynastic rulers like the Czar, King of Sweden, Sultan etc are going to notice that 148 Polish Nobles have got rid of the King of Poland which is less than the number of English Nobles who got rid of King James but a lot more than the number of Spanish Ministers who are trying to get rid of Dynastic rule in Spain and vote in a Pedro using Polish methods of getting rid of one King and finding another. But how jumpy do they get about the growing fashion for small groups of Nobles to go around getting rid of Kings and does anyone do anything about it?

- Thing which baffles me is if all Polish Nobles are equal can 148 votes in a local council replace the 20,000-30,000 votes which made Augustus King for Life? Also is Augustus still Grand Duke of Lithuania untill a vote in Lithuania replaces him?

- My character who is Catholic and not a Molly is now thinking of standing to be elected as King of Poland since these seem only requirements to stand. Or alternatively, he could change his name to Pedro and stand in the new Polish style elections for King of Spain since the only requirement seems to be called Pedro......though being a non molly Catholic is probably a help.

VI) Hopefully a War of the Spanish Succession, War of the Polish Succession and a Crusade against Savoy should keep Privateers supplied with letters of Marque........Viv La Anarchy!

PS Have worked out obligations of being a Gallician Catholic Privateer against being a Heretic Pirate..................Keep hands off the Church Plate and no Nuns! Can I continue to take the strain??????? Its tough being a loyal subject of his most Christian Majesty

- But will Charles and his Italian fan club get the backing of h The Questi

My prediction for 1703 are not so voluminous.

1) I expect Savoy is going to regret invading what is consider a Papal Fief.

2) I expect that violence will break out.


I have my own perspectives on Poland, naturally, but having placed my bets I will wait to see if I'm right....

Maybe the Czar of all the Rus will take the chance to finally unite the Rus & add Lituania to his collection of nice places to visit with the Cossack Hetmen Holiday Club.

Guess we all sit tight & wait till next turn appears then await the forum meltdown when we see the results of the Papal review of the Crisis that is Spain.

Don't personally get the feeling ( as yet, this may change) that the Pope is anti - French, more a feeling he as asked people to get off his lawn as they are damaging his flowerbeds( aka Sardinia) Is that anti- France, or just asking for a bit of peace ,quiet& respect of his property.
Its not the "Get off my land" followed by both barrels of a shot gun loaded with salt pellets I know from my youth in Somerset, more a gentle request for respect being shown towards Papal property.

Of course if the Pope becomes pro- Jacobite then there may be some problems, but once James Stuart becomes king of Spain.............oh, bugger.

Guess 1703 will see the end of the Phoney war in Italy, still no one wants to take the blame for being first to fire. Maybe rather than just marching in & saying "this area is now under our protection" People will be a bit more honest & say well actually we just declared war because we want your land, money & recruits.

My forecasts for 1703:
1) Maravedis reaches parity with the Pound Sterling, off the back of a stellar economic performance in the Spanish Empire.
2) The Pope makes a reasonable(ish) call on the succession.
3) Several people get really upset & we have a war.
4) The Duke of Berwick & his search party of 39,900 Cavalry are unable to find the missing Savoyard Cardinal...

Okay, so I asked it, so here's what I'd like to see for 1703.

A bit more play in Africa.

Game 10 has two player nations in the continent, now, so that has doubled the potential for stories in the newspaper. Rozwi's diplomatic links with Europe has doubled during 1702, so hopefully my aim to bring more European influence into south eastern Africa will soon bear fruit. There's at least one armed conflict that has the potential to kick off at some point (Rozwi versus Ovambo - we're waiting for the enemy to march from the other side of Africa. I should have declared war, first, before invading!) and its been mentioned in the newspaper that Portugal is looking for vengeance against the Madagascan and Burundi native kingdoms - but more on that, from Rozwi's viewpoint - in response to the Portuguese governor-general - in the next newspaper.

There's Rozwi's diplomatic dealings with the other European nations who're in contact with us, which will hopefully help to bridge the language and cultural gap that we're all, currently, stumbling over. Abyssinia has made links with Portugal, as seen in the newspaper over the last months, and hopefully other European nations will add to the diplomacy in the Horn of Africa region - Rozwi's going to be making it's first tentative steps in the area this coming turn, but you'll all have to wait and see in the newspaper. Unfortunately I read, previously, that the player who was The Great Mughal is no longer in Game 10 (at least if memory serves me correct, concerning what I read on this forum) as it had been a long-term goal of mine to develop trade links and diplomacy with the Indian sub-Continent. There is China and Japan active in Game 10, but Rozwi has no opportunity to get that far east (at least from a historically legitimate view) so I'm hesitant to make contact, as it would be against my current method of roleplaying Rozwi, though I'd love to be talking and working with the Chinese and Japanese players, somehow. I'd also like to see the Persians, if they're in play, make diplomatic moves along the east coast of Africa, and boost the trade along the Swahili coast. But that last one is probably just me looking for a means help Rozwi's trade.

Lastly. Hopefully, by the end of 1703, there will be a representative 'embassy' in Europe for Rozwi. This is a long-term goal of myself, which I've been joined with, now, another player, and I've suggested a few methods to smooth the cultural differences and language barrier before my Black Africans get dropped into the alien environment of the Northern Hemisphere. I've been working on this since 1700, actually, grooming a suitable character to head up such a diplomatic mission, and have already been talking with a couple of European nation players in regard to allowing him to experience living amongst Whites in Africa, whilst he continues his preparations for the journey north. I've no idea what such an 'embassy' to Christian Europe will provide, except a curiosity and novelty for the newspaper, but it should allow some new contacts to be made with other players who've, previously, had no contact with me, and, hopefully, bring about a bit more play in Africa in the years that follow.

So, that's what I'm looking forward to

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Okay, so I asked it, so here's what I'd like to see for 1703.

A bit more play in Africa.

Game 10 has two player nations in the continent...

Or maybe more than two now? (Your wish may have been granted.)

Sounds interesting.

North African Arabs. West African Tribals. European freetraders and pyrates of the Indian Ocean. Quite a few possibilities, so it'll be fun to try and work out who's going to pop up next.

So predictions...ok...

If KingMaker's prediction of the horseless carriage comes true then this will cause a economic crisis due to the collapse in the horsebreeding industries of the world, which will only be countered by the development of the horse-drawn Zeppelin.

My character will also continue to drink a lot of Scotch...these two predictions may be linked