You and whose army?

Ok Chaps, I need some help with the rules...

...as it seems the demented and possibly drunk ex-Emperor of Rome, aka Nero, has got so utterly confused he now sees the peace-loving, and all round cuddly and friendly, people of Caledonia...who so far in the game have not harmed a single hair on any Roman head but are also kindly looking after an Eagle the Romans carelessly lost (which feels a bit like the RN or USN losing an aircraft carrier...how?)...as a people he wants to crush...assuming a) he can work out where Caledonia is and b) work out which end of a sword to hold.

Now all the Caledonians want to do, at the end of a hard day of hillfort-building and trying to work out how to distil whisky a few hundred year early, is kick back with a few jugs of mead and heather ale...but no, seems we have to prepare for war...

...so, what are the Rome rules for forming "armies" (in the Glory sense)? I've read and re-read the rules plus looked over the newspapers and can't quite see how I form an "army".
Is it as simple as following the "Glory" format and saying "X units at location Y to form army"?

I dunno ‍�

At least that means it not just me

Jason2 wrote:Ok Chaps, I need some help with the rules...

...as it seems the demented and possibly drunk ex-Emperor of Rome, aka Nero, has got so utterly confused he now sees the peace-loving, and all round cuddly and friendly, people of Caledonia...who so far in the game have not harmed a single hair on any Roman head but are also kindly looking after an Eagle the Romans carelessly lost (which feels a bit like the RN or USN losing an aircraft carrier...how?)...as a people he wants to crush...assuming a) he can work out where Caledonia is and b) work out which end of a sword to hold.

Now all the Caledonians want to do, at the end of a hard day of hillfort-building and trying to work out how to distil whisky a few hundred year early, is kick back with a few jugs of mead and heather ale...but no, seems we have to prepare for war...

...so, what are the Rome rules for forming "armies" (in the Glory sense)?  I've read and re-read the rules plus looked over the newspapers and can't quite see how I form an "army".
Is it as simple as following the "Glory" format and saying "X units at location Y to form army"?

For Rome each Legion is an full time professional Army group in its own right with its own cavalry, artillery, engineering and even medical back up.  Though for some missions a Roman commander may want extra Cavalry, extra skirmishers or a larger Army which is formed by adding extra Legions.  All paid and supplied by the Emperor loyal tax paying subjects and supplied hard working Roman Officials so the Legions have nothing to do but train, build roads or hit people who the Emperor does not like.

It is normally considered wise to keep the Legions "busy" either fighting, building or training as otherwise they tend to sit round and talk politics.

For poor unfortunates without the advantages of a professional modern army it seems to be a case of having Tribal chiefs muster a bunch of farmers into tribal war bands (page 14) in a traditional muster spot and go from his location to another and hit someone with rocks for example one lot of Germans seem to have mustered 25 Tribal Warbands under x3 chiefs and marched them too a point just a little north of the neigbours.

Advantage of this method is that you can muster a lot of men for a fight but they can not stay in the field for very long or they will run out of supplies (gain high sickness levels) and their farms will be neglected and the tribe will starve.

To avoid danger of being hit by a sudden attack and suffering heavy losses before the Tribe can muster - as happened to a certain Tribe on the Danube what you might want to do is have say no more than 10% but probably lower of your potential man power active as either:-

a) Border Scouts as seems to be the case with your Southern neighbours the Brigantines........can not think why they seem so jumpy with a Roman Invasion Army too their south and a bunch of Highland Cattle thieves and head hunters too their north.

or

b) Professional guards of the ruler and other Elite fighter types who train all the time, collect the taxes, raid probably more effectively than a bog standard war band etc, etc  

In ancient British and Celtic tribes such elite fighters were the ones riding the chariots or horses and sometimes with armour.  With later Picts its the ones manning the ships to go raiding down the coasts.  

From Roman accounts I assume that the Caledones were very like their southern neighbours and used Chariots and War bands but seemingly no slingers to defend their hill forts defended by slingers.....all honourable fighters in the Open though their war bands seem to favour throwing javalins from high ground rather than getting stuck in.  

However as its a game and your area on the map covers Pict areas as well you might want to stress ambush and hit and run tactics with emphasis on light cavalry and skirmishing archers hidden in the heather with hooded cloak pulled up for concealment.  Do not think Richard will allow heavy armoured Cavalry and horse archers no matter how close your relations with the King of Kings.  Unless say Nero sends some Iazyges or Alans to do duty in Britannia and they desert and go native?  But you can probably push for slingers.  

As for Chiefs and other hero types leaders the Atecotti were said to be especially savage and dreaded raiders and mercenaries who migrated from Hiberia to the to the Hebrides, Man and Caithness and indulged in cannibalism.  They are also said to be related to the Firbolg of Irish legend.

With Hibernia not active in a game this would seem to give you the green light to plunder both the Irish Mythros of CuChulain, Cormaac Mac Art for your Fianna or diberga.  After all what are all these bored super Hero's going to do when the great King of the North starts dishing out arm rings of pure (Parthian?) gold to any Hero willing to fight the invasion?  While if you view the Atecotti as at least the mothers of the mothers of the later Norse-Irish Lords of the Isles and Kings of Man you can add the Thorfinn Raven Feeder types as well.

Ok non of this will stand up too a full scale Roman invasion but lets face it even if he does make it how long will Nero stick out the midges and the rain?  Two months max before he gets called away?

On the units I have available to me Stuart (rather than the query on forming units into armies), don't worry I'm not going to raise eastern style heavy cavalry but I can have mounted archers...no war haggi yet though.

Skirmish units with mounted and "elite foot warriors" warbands are how I started the game and seem the way forward. Not convinced on chariots in the Highlands. I do have some but I see them more as a sort of ceremonial honour guard. Spent enough time walking across the Aberdeenshire hills as well as the Highlands proper in the last few years and among other things watching the local horses going up and down the hills and mountains (including the problems I've seen pairs of horses had in trying to pull small waggons and on occasion small horse-buggies up and down them) to think chariots would not be overly practical, especially in a time when the area was much more wooded. Yes, in the lowland areas (which are outside my position) they could be used but I'm more comfortable putting my efforts into mounted warbands instead.

Ships are a separate issue and one I haven't had a chance to get to grip with yet-you need a port for them, which means having a settlement-and both of those need a lot of money/gold to build (the Aprilis 818 newspaper mentioned "ship facilities" as an alternative to needing a port but expensive for the single ship they can support)

Jason2 wrote:On the units I have available to me Stuart (rather than the query on forming units into armies), don't worry I'm not going to raise eastern style heavy cavalry but I can have mounted archers...no war haggi yet though.

Skirmish units with mounted and "elite foot warriors" warbands are how I started the game and seem the way forward.  Not convinced on chariots in the Highlands.  I do have some but I see them more as a sort of ceremonial honour guard.  Spent enough time walking across the Aberdeenshire hills as well as the Highlands proper in the last few years and among other things watching the local horses going up and down the hills and mountains (including the problems I've seen pairs of horses had in trying to pull small waggons and on occasion small horse-buggies up and down them) to think chariots would not be overly practical, especially in a time when the area was much more wooded.  Yes, in the lowland areas (which are outside my position) they could be used but I'm more comfortable putting my efforts into mounted warbands instead.

Ships are a separate issue and one I haven't had a chance to get to grip with yet-you need a port for them, which means having a settlement-and both of those need a lot of money/gold to build (the Aprilis 818 newspaper mentioned "ship facilities" as an alternative to needing a port but  expensive for the single ship they can support)

Think the basic problem you have for the military and political organization of what is now the peoples of the modern Highlands and Islands is that all of our written information comes from second hand Roman accounts of two campaigns - Agricola's in 84 AD a couple of decades after RIB and Septimius Severus campaigns which is well over a hundred and fifty years after. Which is a bit like only accounts of the Spanish Army in the gunpowder period being British accounts of the Armada and Wellington in Spain.

From the Roman accounts it would seem that the Caledonianes used chariots and warbands equiped with over long swords swords without a point, javalins and either normal sized oval shields or a small rectangular shield (which we see again on stone carvings linked too the Picts) with no or rather no mention made of bows, slings or cavalry. While the Picts were a Island people linked with Broach building who took over from the Caledonianes in the Highlands after their tribal organization got smashed by Septimius Severus.

While I am sure their are marked differences between living on the Islands or living in the Highlands and no doubt after four years of Septimius Severus campaigns the Highlands were in a terrible mess allowing Tribal chiefs based on islands and out of the way of the invasion greater power and authority. Not 100% convinced that the Picts and the Caledonianes were markedly different to each other on their southern neighbours. So as your probably merged character with the damn good speach writer in Rome is now High King of both Picts and Caledonianes and I would take military view:

- High forts are designed to be defended by slingers with the British Tribes in hilly area's of what is now Wales and the South West noted as being very fond on the sling. Take view that the sling is a traditional weapon the world over for goat, sheep, lama etc herders who live in areas with lots of stones while the later Picts were noted for their ambushes using both bows and crossbows. Thus skirmish troops with anything they want are in - after all do you really want to go hand to hand with fully armoured Romans, Saxon Thanes or Norman Knights or shoot them in the back and run away?

- The small shield mentioned by the Romans and shown carried by later Picts seems to be linked to the use of long two handed spears. Not sure Picts and much later on the rank and file troops of the Kingdom of Scotland seem so linked to long spears. Could it be they had lots of tall trees to provide long spear shafts but lacked armour so did not want to get that close too better armoured foes? So warbands with long Spears........extra handy against heavy Cavalry and people with people with really short swords untill they get past the point.

- Chariots seem too be a status symbol for high born Celts and crews seem to have often dismounted to fight. Cassivellaunus is said to have dismissed most of his Infantry and used 4,000 Chariots as a sort of flying column against Caesar's invasion. Think these should be the Elite fighters of the Army using their chariots like modern APC for rapid entry and quick exit raids/attacks with most fighting on foot unless foe caught totally surprized and out of order. In the battles you probably do not wish to fight they are a mobile reserve and bodyguard for your character.

- Pony riding Cavalry called "contemptible little Britons" were used by both Southern Tribes and later Picts often with Chariots in support. This is clearly light skirmishing and scouting horse.

- The Picts were noted sailors and raiders by sea........guess if you live on the Oakneys or Western isles you need a boat to get around. And you grow up to be a pretty good sailor or you drown at an early age!

Basically think you can build a military which is handy at semi-guerilla campaigns but probably wants to avoid anything which looks like a proper battle esp against highly trained professional killers with lots of armour and spanish swords who grew up watching gladiator shows.

On the subject of the possible Enemies of Roman players in RIB (AKA Cuddly and friendly types according to Jason 2).

It may be possible that there is the odd and very strange player in Rome id Burning does not want to dress his character in a Toga, make speaches to the Senate about how it was all better in the old days and be feed stuffed olives and grapes while watching chariot races.

For such weirdo's Jason2 has started this thread on how you can build an Army to stand a chance against the might of Rome. Simple answer is that this is impossible - if team Rome ever stops stabbing each other back, finds a sane Emperor and is able to concentrate on you to the exclusion of everything else you are going to be smashed flat.

However with Nero and the Guard doing a very good impression of the Grand Old Duke of York, the key reserve Legions of the Empire stuck in a political jolly on a rain swept island at the edge of world and the Chaos Gods on Mount Agema running wild its a pretty fair bet that this is never going to happen in game.

Meaning that non Roman players are faced with lower level tactical problems problems such a) How do I fight walls and b) Why do I have a tactically unbalanced Army.

Simple answer to the why of most of these questions is its "because you are a bunch of barbarians" who live in huts or tents and have not yet developed marks of civilization like artillery, siege warfare and engineering.

So effectively this thread becomes about "What can I do too help overcome the disadvantage of being a non Toga wearing barbarian who was born in a tent/hill fort/hut (delete as required) and can not read Greek or Latin?"

Stuart, good appraisal however what about all those Romans the Empire has lost? Might they go feral and help the wode wearers?

Regor wrote:Stuart, good appraisal however what about all those Romans the Empire has lost? Might they go feral and help the wode wearers?

It is not exactly unknown for Romans to go feral and support a foreign power against the Roman State esp if their personal honour was offended or they were in opposition to the current government good examples being:

- Gaius Marcius Coriolanus who got in such a huff that he defected to the Volscians and lead an Army to the very gates of Rome before being talked round by his wife and mother. Though to be fair the very early period of the Roman Kingdom/Republic central Italian history/myth is pretty much all about Nobles getting into a huff about something or other - most famously about the rape of Lucretia by their last King. While the whole Claudi gens trace their decent from a Sabine noble and warband who got in a huff and defected to Rome.

- The Gabinian Legions who somewhat abandoned and forgotten about in Egypt drifted into Ptolemic service. Though they would probably argue that they had done their term or duty and just took jobs with a allied power. And at the time they fought him Julius Ceasar was a General gone rogue rather than the Roman state!

- Labienus and remnant republican forces who allied with Patharians. Also bunch of Roman POWs from Crassus defeated Army is believed to have been used on Patharian Eastern frontier only to defect to the Turks and then end up in China. Parthians do not seem to have had much luck with using captured armies as the captured Selucids also defected as well.

- The Republican general Sertorius who with a mostly Lusitanian Army held Spain against both Sulla and Pompey and co-operated with the Mithradatic fleet. Prior to his assassination he had been joined by 53 cohorts of Roman Republicans and had almost won the war in Spain. Its still not 100% sure if Sertorius should be viewed as a Republican fighting in a wider war or had actually gone native and wanted to seperate Iberia from Rome.

From the above and other examples it is quite clear than Romans could co-operate with the "Barbarians" even against fellow Romans. Though the more usual style was Roman in charge and using foreign allies/clients v Roman rivals for example Anthony making use of his Girlfriends fleet while many of Julius Ceasars most well respected troops and officers who remained loyal retainers of the Julio-Claudian Emperors for generations were Gauls who had only just abandoned the wode for Toga's, adding water too their wine and Latin names.

Not yet happened in game but 69 AD witnessed whole chunk of the Roman Army of the Rhine and the Rhine fleet defect to the Germans.

So yes one solution to being a Barbarian lacking in military skills would be too obtain them from the Roman Empire be that a few hired veterans down on their luck who understand things like drill and artillery. Or alliance with a whole Roman General and his Army who might be in a Huff with the Emperor......Romans having a long and pround tradition of getting in a huff with other Romans. Indeed I would say that the scale of huff has shown some signs of going up.


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Looking at the list of possible opponents of "Team Rome" and how they deal or do not deal with the military challenge posed by a Roman Army which is about to enter one of its golden periods (even if in Rome is Burning it does not always feel like that!).

Think one of the more interesting opponents is the Kingdom of Dacia.

In wargames terms (culture wise this has a lot of holes in it) tend to view the Dacians as a successor state to the Thracians who show up in a lot of Hellanistic Armies and as a step along the road to by beloved Bulgar Army foe of Russ and Byzantines everywhere........I mean how can you not love a Army which has striped trousers for its better dressed cavalry, is commanded by King Krum and turns its defeated foes heads into drinking cups.

The weapon used by both Dacians and their related Bastarnae allies which most disturbed the Romans was the the "falx" a murderous curved blade often on a long haft and used two handed or on a shorter haft and used one handed.  Handy for hooking over the tops of shields and taking off whole arms.  This seems like a dead ringer for the earlier Thracian rhomphaia and along with Geography would seem to indicate the growth of the Dacian Kingdom from a Thracian tribal base, with some  Danubian Celtic, Hellanistic and Nomad influence thrown into the pot.

Some Roman writers also refer to the Dacians as Thracians as well, but these writters also called anyone who lived in a tent and lived on a horse as Skythians for two thousand years no matter if they were fair haired blue eyed Alans or a bunch of Mongol types.  Not sure how much faith you can put in them when dealing with foreign types.

However if we accept the Thracian base we are talking about a people who by 69 AD has been fighting in Greek and Roman armies for at least 500 hundred years and had been in touch with Hellanistic culture for just as long.  Perhaps on the edge of things but Thacian Peltasts and Light Cavalry had marched with Alexander and all of his generals and their heirs plus Roman commanders had continued to employ them generally for the dirty work of scouting, ambush and clearing guarded passes as well as garrison duty.  For instance it has been postulated that three Thracian cohorts and three Thacian alae in the Roman Army in Syria in 88 AD were Harold of Judaea old Thracian units (hired by Harold because he really did not trust well anyone much but least of all his fellow Jews)

Thus while the Dacians/Thracian foot do make extensive use of pure skirmishing foot with bows and Javalins the majority are light medium infantry (Peltasts in Greek terms) able to both skirmish with Javalins and engage in hand to hand combat.  Probably equal to most Roman Auxiliary infantry in hand too hand but going to suffer if they go head to head with well armoured, close order Legions.

This means that both Dacians and my Bulgarians are looking for an "edge" to even things up.  An ambush, disordered street fighting or raiding a sleeping camp would be good.  But generally the edge is given by fighting in their home mountains or other rough terrain, less effective against the Legions than a Greek Pike Phalanx or Byzantine heavy cavalry but these are troops who like their home mountain's.  

Also after being exposed too those clever Greeks for hundreds of years they had a pretty clear idea of mining, fortifications, field works and artillery.  Not perhaps to the extreme standard of the Legions who were effectively a whole Army made up of combat engineers but the fortifications of the Dacian capital of Sarmizegestusa is not just any Celtic style hill fort.  This is some proper Hellanistic design fortified terraces and layered defence rather than a basic Hill fort like Maiden Castle in Dorset which may have delayed the II Legion by about a day.  

Rather later some of the worst Byzantine disasters v the Bulgars happened when they found their line of advance in valleys blocked by earthworks and palisades often reinfoced by floodwaters due to blocked streams.   While the heights were held against them by Infantry and their supply lines cut by Cavalry.  Other really major Byzantine disaster was caused by what looks a lot like a betrayal when a perfectly good general with perfectly good troops failed to support an advance and left the battle for Constantinople with about half the Army dumping the Emperor and the other half of the Army he left fighting right in it.

Now I am sure that in Rome is Burning no Roman force is going to panic and run for it and no Roman General is going to betray a fellow Roman least of all our beloved Emperor.  But I guess these Barabarian types can have their dreams......Note the fact that the King of Dacia is sitting on a gold and a silver mine will have no effect what so ever.  No member of "Team Rome" can be corrupted or bribed and the growth of the Egyptain faction in the Senate is purely down to the Oratory and widom of its leaders and nothing at all too do with them being the richest faction.

In terms of Cavalry my Bulgar Wargames army under major Steppe influence have gone full "Turkish style" or perhaps that should be "Avar style" ........Composite bows, lances, scale armour, stirrups as well as the super cool striped trousers!

Sadly for the Dacians but probably just as well for Roman Cavalry rather than being steppe style super troopers the native Dacian Cavalry seem to be very like earlier Thracian types in that its light skirmishing horse mostly with Javalins but with some mounted archery under Steppe influence.  Dacian armies may however also include allied Sarmatian Lancers.

Though carrying a weak bow the Sarmatian Tribes developed the massed charge by armoured lancers charging at speed (much more heavily armoured and less common noble Cataphracts attacked at the Trott and used weight rather than speed).  This tactic was a bit of a dead end on the Steppe and failed in the face of Hun, Turkic, etc style archery.  But it really impressed and scarred Infantry based armies less able to get out of the way of the charge.

Interestingly in RIB the Danube Commanders have just broken one of the Sarmation tribes right next door too the Dacian Kingdom and a lot of Sarmatian Lancers would now seem to be short of a tribe, short of herds and in need of a new home.  Question seems to be how many take a Roman Army signing on fee to buy back their women and cattle?  And how many seek to drown their sorrows with Dacian gold?

Or if you are King Decebalus is your gold better spent on Steppe Horse archers?  Extra Bastarnae and Carpi with big choppy things?  Skilled Greeks and others perhaps with experience in the Legions who know about artillery, fortifications and mines?  Or do you figure it worked for Harold and the King of Armenia and spend the cash on lots of nice birthday gifts for Nero (and other Romans of influence?) and order that Toga?  Though before putting in that order with your tailor might be wise to see if it works out for a certain Germanic chief?  Mind you his raid was a lot worse than the Dacian raid and current status (with Nero) of commanders of Danube Legions may make Nero more willing to believe Dacian plea's that its all their fault esp if plea is in a cultured Greek.  Than he would be willing to believe anything bad about his old chariot racing buddy on the Rhine...........well known fact throwing bridge across the Rhine was not a hostile act and preparation for invasion at all.  Roman commander just wanted to help trade and make it easy for locals to visit their old granny on other side of the Rhine  

The July 819 AUC issue of AD Infinitum has shown up and according to Team Rome and the Imperial Press office everything is going to plan and on schedule. With the beloved Emperor Nero due to celebrate a triumph in the very near future.

If you a Barbarian player in Rome is Burning (you known who you are - Jason "I support peace, love, strong drink and Druids" 2) please stop reading at this point the above is all you need to know!

If you are a non player in Rome is Burning and want to know a bit more about the progress of the Roman Master Plan:-

1) In Britannia the Legions have now completed some really straight roads from Londinium to Glevum and from Londinium to Camulodunum. The natives are so impressed with these new roads that its only a matter of time before all the inhabitants of the Islands are pleading to be allowed to pay the Imperial taxes needed to fund roads near them. If they are really lucky they may even get proper Roman sporting venues as well so they can stop watching the uncivilized practice of Druidic Human sacrifice and watch civilized gladiators with sports betting and pickled doormice at the interval.

The press office in Londinium have confirmed that the expected arrival of Tribune Cordulo & Legion XXIII to give a push to the conquest of the islands is not actually part of the plan at all and nothing to do with the fact that this Legion is actually defending Rome itself against a Army Mutiney. The plan is actually to bring the Tribes into the Roman Empire by a display of the advantages of civilization.

2) On the Rhine Aulus Vitellius Legate of Germania has conducted a brilliant second river crossing and in co-operation with our noble ally King Radbod of the Frisii driven the hostile Bruceteri tribe away from the Rhine and into the Teutoburg Wald as per plan. With King Radbod getting the old Bruceteri lands which he intends to farm with Slave labour.

Of the 24,000 Roman settlers enslaved by Tribes who the Emperor and Senate wanted recovered none have yet been recovered. So Aulus Vitellius would seem to have three options a) Follow the Bruceteri into the The Teutoburg Wald where they have already mangled some of his Cavalry b) Convince his new ally to free his Roman slaves and get some more from the Bruceteri or c) Sweep the whole issue under the carpet and hope the Emperor and Senate forget about a few plebs.......sounds like a plan to me

Esp as the shiny boys & tourests in the Praetorians Guard who from the point of view of the Rhine Legions and their commander would have been the perfect troops to storm the fastness of for the Teutoburg Wald were to unimpressed with either German rain or the prospect of actually having to justify their double pay and do some proper work that they have staged a mutiny and are now marching back too Rome. Having declared some half arsed Gaul who happens to be their commander Emperor even though he has zero authority in the eyes of the Senate, Provinces etc and the current Emperor is still alive!

If the Guard take Rome and declare Quintus Julius Cordus Emperor even such an expert fence sitter as Aulus Vitellius may find a bit of discomfort in his glutus maximius. May even force him to decide if he is more concerned about 10,000 hardened killers in full very shiny white and gold armour or the influence of Trajan Mum (wife of Titus Flavious) the party Queen of Carthage?

3) On the Danube following his great victory over the Iazyges Sarmations and establishment of a Roman bridgehead north of the Danube and on the flank of the Dacian Kingdom its basically mission achieved and slip out of armour and into a nice comfortable Toga to tidy up the paper work and a few other minor matters for Aulus Decenius Germinus the Legate of Dalmatia.

For those more worried about possible loose ends than just bathing in the reflected Glori of Aulus Decenius Germinus the minor matters are:-

a) Win one great victory and idiots start calling you "Emperor". They may well mean well and its very flattering but it also plays hell with your relationship with the Government in Rome and makes huge amounts of paperwork as you try and explain to both the Emperor and other leading members of the Senate that its nothing to do with you and you are not actually a Traitor.

b) In attempt to calm things down and in good faith friends were talking about the huge benefits to Rome and the Treasury from the sale of 90,000 captives taken by your troops. Sadly the merchants have now advised that only 30,000 of your captives are actually likely to I) Get too market and II) Find a buyer. Oh dear yet more explaining to the Emperor, Treasury and the Army that not only are you not a Traitor but you are not trying to pocket 2/3 of the profits and only hand over 1/3 or a share of a 1/3 of the expected profits.

c) The nice bridgehead north of Danube looks like a silant reaching into Barbarian lands with the very strong Dacians on one side of the silent and a very deep and fast flowing river at its base. Its fortification and population will mean yet more cost and paperwork. Remarkable how quickly a paper profit of 90,000 x 1,000 denerii = 90,000,000 denerii just seems to vanish due to merchants commissions, natural wastage and write off's due to age, ill health etc and additional costs.

d) As for the defeated Iazyges after Germinus let them have their elderly and very young back (no retail value) they would seem to be a broken tribe on the move. Now made up of grandparents looking after the very young and a lot of probably very annoyed not to mention sexually frustrated (after Germinus sold all of the attractive women) men in armour on big horses with long lanes.

It was assumed that the Iazges would be forced to join either the Roman Empire or the Dacain Kingdom but they actually seem to be on the move with other tribes allowing them free passage and help. Which could either be they feel sorry for them or do not want to end up on wrong end of a Sarmatian Kontos.

Question now for a lot of Roman Commanders is now......where will all of this Cavalry find a home? Its a long way to go but the Iazyges are close kinsmen of the Sarmatian Roxolani and Alani and King Gtalos is talking up an alliance of all the Tribes faced by the menace of the Hunnic Confederatio too the East.

Even further and more distant kin would be the Parthian tribe, they may be off the steppe and head of an Empire in Persia. But one suspects that the King of Kings would welcome Emperor his long lost kin with red salt, fire, ref carpets and even new silk PJ & slippers if they bring him 9,000 cavalry. Esp as the King of Kings is already famous for his generous nature towards Jews, Druids, various Roman Senators like Quintus Julius Cordus, even the rank and file of the Guard?

4) In the East the Jews are revolting, Client Kingdoms are getting restless and the King of Parthia seems to think he is related to Mithradites of Pontos rather than Mithradites (I to IV) of Parthia however the great legate of Syria, Cestius Gallus says its all going to plan and on schedule.

Assume this means that Asia Minor is easy enough to get into but very hard to get out off when the river crossings and passes are guarded so we grind the invaders down with skirmishing tactics in Asia Minor and when they turn back home with their loot we bring them to battle in a pass or river crossing and destroy them. Then make up for the damage done to Roman tax revenue from Asia by "contributions" from the Jewish temple as its well known to be packed full of gold.

Stuart - a serious suggestion: what if there was a proposal to make Trajan Pater head of the Praetorians?

Johntindall wrote:Stuart - a serious suggestion: what if there was a proposal to make Trajan Pater head of the Praetorians?

Are you trying to get my character killed

The Guard seems to be so riddled with faction and even Parthian agents that its a total snake pit and a poison chalace for any character or even NPC commander. Which is probably just how Richard likes it. In RIB the Guard would seem to be being played like Richards beloved Janissary Corp in Glori but with fancier armour and an even nastier attitude.

Richard would probably view anyone trying to get Trajan senior command of the the Guard in the same light as someone trying to appoint Herald of Judea as Magistrate in charge of child care or appointing my G2 Leyerbay of Rumelia to command the Janissary Corp.

So far the Praetorians have murdered one of his faction senators on the steps of the Senate, assaulted and arrested a senior magistrate of Rome who happens to be a relation by marriage and nailed up a noble female member of his gens in public. They are really not a great match up!

The Praetorians are currently loyal to their commander who they are backing for Emperor. Thus only person who can currently appoint a new Guard Commander is Cordus if he gets comfortable in purple in Rome and appoint's a new Guard Commander. Alternatively if someone has enough influence with the Guard its possible they could be "influenced" into having another mutiney and returning to loyalty to Nero or perhaps even someone other than Cordus or Nero, who could then appoint a new commander.

Possible that the Egyptain, Syrian, combned Iberian faction or even the Danube faction after its converted as lot of slaves into cash may have enough silver and influence to out bid the Parthians and "buy" another mutiny which free's up the Command of the Guard. However, in RIB command of the Guard and Governor of Judea would seem to be the posts you give too people you do not like very much.

Some reading for Trajan Jnr?

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Johntindall wrote:Stuart - a serious suggestion: what if there was a proposal to make Trajan Pater head of the Praetorians?

Are you trying to get my character killed?

Not at all - but you are obviously very well informed and might be a great asset in charge of actual legions. The Empire needs you! Get out of Spain Cicero Trajan and get some front-line action!

Johntindall wrote:

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Johntindall wrote:Stuart - a serious suggestion: what if there was a proposal to make Trajan Pater head of the Praetorians?

Are you trying to get my character killed?

Not at all - but you are obviously very well informed and might be a great asset in charge of actual legions. The Empire needs you! Get out of Spain Cicero Trajan and get some front-line action!

Trajan Pater has every faith in the commanders of the Rhine, Danube and Eastern Legions and would hate to deny your Character the Glori of crushing the revolt in Judea.

About the only Legionary Command which may or may not be free would seem to be command of the British Legions. So you would have my character drag himself away from the Iberian Games, the Olive Harvest, important fire regulations and voting rights campaigns in order to beat up a load of blue painted farmers in the rain untill they agree to accept the authority of the Emperor (What happens if they ask which one?).

Hardly seems a suitable task for an ex-consul of Rome and a bit of a dead end job which could get blur stains all over my nice new Toga.

If things remain stuck in Britannia perhaps Eagle Recovery may be suitable first task for Trajan Junior. Look good on his CV when he first tries to win election too the Senate.