France V The Hapsburgs (G7)

Oh...don't worry Stuart...we in Moldavia don't fear the expanding power of all our neighbours

The July 1707 edition of the Gloire du Roi has shown up and for non players or people thinking about taking a position here are the highlights:

1) The major event is the Great Northern War between Russia & Sweden for control of the Baltic but as that has its own thread I will not comment here apart from to say the game does seem to be developing a fault line between Pro Russian and Pro Swedish powers.

2) Major Russian cheer leader is Prince Frederick Wilhelm of Brandenburg, Duke of Prussia etc who many people expected to invade the Baltic States to help his Russian Ally. To the surprise of many the Prussian Military have actually marched the other way and invaded Munster taking Minden in a bloodless coup.

3) And what are the Catholic Leaders of the HRE doing while the Prussian Jackboot is stuck into a popular Catholic Bishop who has never hurt anyone and is a loyal subject of the Holy Roman Empire? Well the Austrians seem to be in the Pub smoking, drinking and eyeing up the bar maid's, In Munich Elector Maximillian Emmanual Reichmarshal of the HRE is either enjoying his Water Gardens or at the Opera while Flanders seems to have spent the month talking trade and getting the Schelde cleared with the Dutch & the Rhineland powers.

Basically at long last Leopold's Empire was at Peace and its leaders were doing a bit of R & R when the Prussians struck and ruined their summer holidays.

The general view of Prussian policy is that the want to make up for not showing up for the last War by being really, really early for the next.

4) Spain helped by the Jusuits & the HWIC seems to be on a mission to build a Catholic Utopia in the New World free from Heretics, Jews and Islam of the Old World. According to the Archbishop of Mexico "If Pirates, Indian Raiders and the French dont like this - tough for we are on a mission from God"

Quite how some of the HWIC directors fit into this Catholic Utopia remains to be seen:scratch: . God loves the repentant sinner?

Or they all marry what they think are sweet, virginal, convent school girls and settle down only to find their 19 year bride is half Sicilian, half Apache and educated by Jesuits............."Daddy, Daddy can you show me how to use a throwing knife".........."I'm busy....ask your mother."

5) Japan seems to be having problems with female lead bandits

6) The English American Colonies seem to be trying to build a Protestant Utopia. Their numbers and Protestant faith reinforced by English & French Protestants fleeing Royal Catholic Governments in London & Paris.

7) Moldavia still seems to be mourning its dec'd Prince but they are talking about colonies as well.......wonder if this means a Orthodox Utopia?

9) The Jesuit Order seems to be having a bit of a battle with the Portugese Military with the Government of King Pedro in the middle. The Colonial Military in particular seem to rather like their corrupt lifestyles and do not wish to be reformed or turned into the agents of the counter reformation/Catholic Utopia viewing it all as a Spanish Plot.

10) Finally the Dutch seem to be keeping well away from religion in their trade policy but the Dutch Military have sent General Nicolaas van Egmont to join the Stadtholder William AKA William King of Scots and the true King of England to all true Protestant's.

- Without his French Military Back-up how secure is King James on the Throne of England    
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Keeping away from Utopia and keeping its eye on profit Rili

Stuart Bailey wrote:
7) Moldavia still seems to be mourning its dec'd Prince but they are talking about colonies as well.......wonder if this means a Orthodox Utopia?

 

"STILL SEEMS"????? We have lost the Father of the nation! Ashes and sack cloths are the fashion of the season here, until the end of the year, employment of a clown is illegal until the period of mourning is over and mimes are being thrown into scorpion pits....ok the last had nothing to do with his death, it's just an excellent policy  

Stuarts comment about the French not being able to intervene in England is possibly the most telling outcome in the long run from the last war. I am not really closely following the politics in England, but a number of external Protestant powers can now intervene in England without a corresponding French intervention. (It is difficult to follow all the factions and who they really are - is there an active English government at the moment, I'm not really certain.)
The Swedish/Russian war is certainly very interesting and as Stuart says seems to be establishing the new faultline in international politics. The first victory to Sweden seems to be very "historical" - imposing a peace and having sufficient depth in recruits and money is always going to be the Swedish challange even if they can win decisive battles. However, if they can be augmented by foreign support this should enable them to go further in the war. An end to the war in western Europe means money and men can now flow east - but is this the reason why the Prussians are starting to tear up in Germany so resources are diverted from going to Sweden? Is Prussia planning on being of nuisance value in central Europe or do they think they can just get away with it on the grounds that the Treaty of Westphalia gives them independence of action?

Pity finances forced me to drop the game. I had a number of ideas as james on how to consolidate power, but as an NPC it isn't going to happen, I think.

Jason, if you were running a democracy you would get my vote - bloody hate mimes. 

As to the colonisation attempts well this is all very well until the Indian and Chinese get involved or even the red indians.... but i love the idea of utopias and of course the resumption of any sort of government in England and France.

Otherwise well, the world is mad, mad, MAD, I say....

BTW Thank you Stuart for your synopsis - I don't bother with the newspaper these days  

Anyone who has Magnus Maximus, commander of the Felix Legions, as their avatar is going to "bloody hate mimes". Thats a rep from me for the comment. If Deacon had stayed with the Stuarts in England I am sure they would end up with a secure position and entrenched their dynasty. But with the crown not being played I think there must be all to play for in England. So there are lots of things for the future in game 7. English civil war, Great Northern war, war in the Empire, not to mention pirates and the colonies.

Interesting to note the difference in reactions to the Prussian Invasion of Baden in G2 and the Prussian Invasion of Munster in G7.

In G2 The Prussians have established the view that Mat the Mad of Baden is a nasty French 5th column standing in the way of progress and the Prussian Emperor has wide spread backing from Russia, England, the Ottomans, Hungary etc. Some of these are just hard core Frog Haters but most are long term allies who view the Emperor as a force for stability in central Europe.

In G7 its the Prussians who are viewed as a nasty French 5th column in the HRE and a lackey of the Czar who goes around stabbing fellow members of the HRE in the back and beating up elderly catholic bishops.

Clearly G7 Prussia needs to take a course in spin doctorship from G2 Prussia:D 

But it is probably fair to say the Prussian Unification of Germany in G2 has also had its problems in Munster & the West.

Added to which in G7 Prussia has added problems:

1) Unlike G2 Austria still hold's the Imperial title and has not yet been torn to bits by a savage Rumelian Leyerbey. With a active Austrian Hapsburg Prussia is unlikely to win the Imperial title and a different view of the "Empire" remains active.

2) More Catholic's to object about Prussians beating up Catholic Bishops inc inside the Empire the Elector of Bavaria who's brother the Bishop-Prince of LC is both a Catholic Bishop and in the invaded Circle. Also in the invaded Rhinish circle is the Viceroy of Flanders

Ok a couple of Bishop's and a lady of mature years may seem an easier target than the Swedes to the mighty Prussian Army, but what happened to the last Prussian invaders of Munster?????

i have a question if france was to transfer its england holiding to a third party would that be breach of treaty as the english are not on the treaty and its not supporting the jacobites interested third party

Hmm, I think the French have withdrawn all their troops from England and having taken Jamaica by force of arms are unlikely to hand it on to AN Other. But it could happen.

It would be amusing if two damaged NPC's went at it again! Mind you the Dutch are a bit feisty at present......

yes depends on the treaty how detailed it is regards to land and control or if france is fully at war with england not just its political make up not much info interested third party  

Marble - I really think the war between France and everyone is over now. The next big thing (after the Russo-Swedish war and possibly a Spanish/Prussian scrap) will be posturing for control of England. Not England v France.

But just guessing. 

hi all thanks for the comments i agree you cant beat a good prussian to stirrrrrr things up  im a big fan of france and england very good history

In view of the last few comments, is it time to change the name of this G7 thread again???

Probably, we have a thread on the Sweden v Russia war in the game, I am not certain how things are going to work out elsewhere; certainly Hapsburgs v France is no longer relevant. From my perspective it would be "why do the Prussians always have to be so difficult" as a thread title, but I might be being biased  

France V The Hapsburgs is still an OK title for a G7 thread since while we may taking a bit of a breather on direct action we all know its only a three year truce and not a real peace and both sides are already trying to gain an advantage before round 2:

The war by proxy for control of the British Thrones and the English Fleet continues. Ok it can be viewed as Protestant V Catholic. Or as its viewed in Madrid - "Noble & Heroic Ally & Fighter against the Bourbons V French Poodle who snubbed the Queen of Spain's sister and shot up our Ports."

Other conflicts and positions also seem to be influenced by the old "Who's side was he on in the War with the French"

A good example of this is the how the struggle for the Baltic between Sweden and Russia & Prussia is seen. Oddly for a Historic Ally of France and foe of the House of Austria current Swedish Diplomacy seems to aim at painting Pussia & Russia as pro French and foes of the Emperor.

The Prussians seem to be doing everything they can to prove Swedish Diplomacy correct.

Sept 1707 Gloire du Roi has shown up and for non players of G7 here are the highlights.......from the viewpoint of this topic:

1) From the number of new Ambassadors being sent out it seems we have a new French Government. Rather pointedly the new French Envoys have all been sent to powers which are, may be, or can influenced into being anti Hapsburg......plus an Envoy was sent to the Pope
but probably not with orders to co-operate with any Spanish or Austrian factions.

One suspects that Austria, Spain, Flanders, Bavaria and the UDP will note that while French Envoys have been sent to the Ottomans, Prussia and Portugal non were sent to them by the new French Govt and will draw their own conclusions about a French War of Revenge being on the cards.

Peace of Yorktown? I think the word should be Yorktown Truce.

2) The only State in the HRE which was honoured by a new French Envoy - Prussia - Remains deeply unpopular with the rest of the Empire over Minden but at least no one is being shot (yet) and amongst the storm of propaganda the Bishop of Munster has offered the Prussians a compromise solution.

Own feeling is that best Prussian option hire a really good lawyer and go to the Reichskammergericht or the Aulic Council and win their case by legal means since the objections so far seems to not be over the Prussian claim itself but how it was pursued and the disturbance of the Imperial Peace.

Lets face it the Emperor is getting on a bit and needs his afternoon nap untroubled by the sound of Prussian jackboots!

3) Last French troops have now left Enland........quite why they are on ships bound for Yorktown is unclear?......interestingly the French did not bother sending an envoy to James Stuart. Probably figure that by the time the "truce" ends William of Orange will have been restored to the English throne and England will be hostile again. Or at least wanting its lost colonies back.

4) French also did not bother sending an envoy to their old Swedish allies but did send one to the Czar. The may be right since at long last the Russians have finally held off a Swedish attack............Ok it took the help of Walls, Fortress Cannon and probably a few sickness levels but the Swedish assault on Riga has been held.

At long last the Russians seem to be getting the hang of this defensive lark..........we will however put a veil over their attempt at attacking at Pskovvluok

Yes, I noticed the French ambassadorial missions, all to potentially anti Hapsburg players. It is also fairly early into a new player position to have already pre determined foreign policy, hmmm.
Prussia actually seemed to have played a clever hand in having a justifiable position in regard to Minden. But after seven years of bad behaviour, marching armies up to borders and back again, frequent attempts at land grabs, Prussia has probably run out of credibility of being a good neighbour.
The Great Northern War articles are ones I read with much interest.
Thanks for the interpretation Stuart.

Guys, it is very interesting that the French have sent out new diplomats. Do you think that the English and the French are working together now that war is errr ... on hold?

Also what will the Spanish do to the Prussians - have the Prussians gone too far?

Regor wrote:Guys, it is very interesting that the French have sent out new diplomats. Do you think that the English and the French are working together now that war is errr ... on hold?

Also what will the Spanish do to the Prussians - have the Prussians gone too far?

The war may be on hold but I suspect that was only because both the French & Austrians needed a breather and because the Emperor did not fancy fighting Richard.

In G7 The emphasis may at times been on the British Isles but what I think has given G7 shape and a degree of "bite" is the long running rivalry between the Hapsburgs & the Bourbons.

Thus it will be good for the game if a new French player takes up the Lilly Banners and aims to put the jumped up Alpine Goat Farmers in their place and re-establish proper respect and fear of the Sun King.

Fairly sure the Jacobite Govt in London (installed by the French Army but now abandoned as part of the peace) is still NPC. But with the Dutch & HWIC doing their best to get rid of it and bring back King William from his exile in Scotland.

This raises two issues:

1) Can the French help James Stuart keep his throne without breaking the peace treaty?

2) Will a new London Govt player be 1) A Jacobite 2) A Williamite or 3) Given the option?


Anyone who wants to play England probably needs to send post card to Richard to with favoured option.

As for Prussia I think its all Spanish Propaganda..............Good Duke Charles of Flanders standing up for law & order in the HRE, poor put upon Catholic Bishops, etc, etc

The Elector can either take the all round face saving option offered by the Bishop of Munster or call Charles Hapsburgs bluff and rely on good old fashioned Prussian Steel.

So what if the last man to do this was found floating face down in Dublin Harbour:suspect: Blackbeard is still with us  

So now it seems that Fredrik was in the right all along. Makes you wonder what would happen if he decides to keep Minden. Will the Imperial army come to his defence? The law clearly states it should.

Just got my turn back and taking a quick look it seems Stuart is on the money once again.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Regor wrote:Guys, it is very interesting that the French have sent out new diplomats. Do you think that the English and the French are working together now that war is errr ... on hold?

Also what will the Spanish do to the Prussians - have the Prussians gone too far?

The war may be on hold but I suspect that was only because both the French & Austrians needed a breather and because the Emperor did not fancy fighting Richard.

In G7 The emphasis may at times been on the British Isles but what I think has given G7 shape and a degree of "bite" is the long running rivalry between the Hapsburgs & the Bourbons.  

Thus it will be good for the game if a new French player takes up the Lilly Banners and aims to put the jumped up Alpine Goat Farmers in their place and re-establish proper respect and fear of the Sun King.

Fairly sure the Jacobite Govt in London (installed by the French Army but now abandoned as part of the peace) is still NPC.  But with the Dutch & HWIC doing their best to get rid of it and bring back King William from his exile in Scotland.

This raises two issues:

1) Can the French help James Stuart keep his throne without breaking the peace treaty?

2) Will a new London Govt player be 1) A Jacobite 2) A Williamite or 3) Given the option?


Anyone who wants to play England probably needs to send post card to Richard to with favoured option.

As for Prussia I think its all Spanish Propaganda..............Good Duke Charles of Flanders standing up for law & order in the HRE, poor put upon Catholic Bishops, etc, etc

The Elector can either take the all round face saving option offered by the Bishop of Munster or call Charles Hapsburgs bluff and rely on good old fashioned Prussian Steel.

So what if the last man to do this was found floating face down in Dublin Harbour:suspect: Blackbeard is still with us  

Looks like france has a new player. Perhaps diplomatic letters will arrive next month?

England is slipping backwards still and there appears to be no Government. Well that is open to debate and a decision as to who is doing what things remain murky. Have the French moved to Yorktown or to mainland France? Who knows but it seems as if the English Colonies are becoming animated. Where is the leader of the Sons of Liberty though?

As to the Low Countries war seems a possibility and as Red says the law says....

But I draw a veil over central Europe.

Finally nice to see the Japanese are still 'at it'  

We shall see. Thanks for all the letters chaps. Replies are being considered..... 

Redtroop44 wrote:So now it seems that Fredrik was in the right all along. Makes you wonder what would happen if he decides to keep Minden. Will the Imperial army come to his defence? The law clearly states it should.

Brandenburg lost its right to govern Minden when Fredrik's mad bad and dangerous to know Dad withdrew from the Holy Roman Empire.

Since the Electorate is now back in the Empire the Elector/Duke may have a case he can take before the Emperor and his fellow Princes in the HRE.

He may even get the Emperor to write the odd letter on his behalf ........but anyone who thinks the Emperor is going to call out the Imperial Army to defend Prussia over a debatable legal point would not seem to know our beloved Emperor and his happy clan. Hapsburgs argue, they disagree but they hardly ever shot each other.

October 1707 Gloire du Roi has shown up and for non players of the clannish and bickering version of the game here are the highlights:

1) After a burst of sending envoys to every potential Hapsburg foe it could think off the new French Government does not actually seem to have used its diplomatic network to carry forward a message of liberty, fraternity and beating up goat farmers.

Versailles is probably still trying to get over how unpopular its Jacobite Lapdog is and the deep rooted Francopobia in G7. The Spanish Inquisition for instance seems to see its job as protecting the young from FRENCH INFLUENCE (oh and heresy).

2) The French Government is probably also wondering why its Army left Liverpool and sailed to Yorktown.......the locals are certainly wondering about this and are having panic attacks at the thought of being forced to attend mass and worship the Sun King.

3) Oddly the American Colonial types and their "trader" allies don't seem so worried about the Spanish to their south. Probably because the HWIC and other English Slavers think of the French as nasty rivals and the Spanish as customers........almost a mass punch with the Frog Navy in Brest while in San Juan its "Can I hold Sir's Coat"

4) In England itself the fact that the French Army has left is about the only good news..........the Country seems to be going to the dogs. The question now seems to be not if William will try to reclaim his English Throne but when?

On paper the James English Army & Navy are a match for the Dutch but how many of them want to fight old friends and allies like Dick Savage and Red John of the Battles?

5) James Stuart may have been better placed if he had not snubbed the Queen of Spain's sister. The good news from Spain is that the Comtessa di Pavia is not pinning and is now being courted by the "Victor of Dublin" The Duc de Palermo. This looks like a long term play for the Viceroy of Naples to me.

6) Another with long term plans around the court of Spain would seem to be the Prince of Portugal. Now back in Lisbon the Pro Spanish and still unwed Prince seems to have convinced the Portugese Generals to agree to the League of St George with Spain, Genoa, Venice, Malta and the Papacy.......This is not going to be popular with Louis XIV !

7) In central Europe the Germans are still bickering over Minden but at least no one has been shot yet.............but give it time!

In east Europe X2 Russian Armies and a Fleet showed up to relieve their garrison in Riga. But the Swedes had gone........they seek him here, they seek him their, were can that dam elusive Vasa be??????

Stuart, stick to irony, poetry is not your strong suit. Yes its a curious time. I hope to make sense of european politics one day.

I really don't understand how France got so "burned" in the past 2 years. Surely its time for a renaissance. Yes I understand the Spain has simply kept her powder dry and moved forward but even the most dense princeling must see a stable France as a buffer against their compatriots aggressions?

So if anyone in Versailles is listening - get a grip.  

Spain and Portugal evidence of my statement above.

Interesting Russo-Swede war stories; I'd love to see the returns of both sides for the same month - any month indeed. Please???  

What is happening in Austria and with the Ottomans?

And England - don't go there.

Africa is quiet....... too quiet.....yet America seems to be the place to visit. Funny? Its weird as India is there................

Ah well too many questions where are the answers?