G7 - The War of the English Succession & the breaking of the Pirate Brotherhood

Following on what was said in another thread about events likely to happen in the future. I thought I would dig out the crystal ball and see what "Mystic Stu" could come up with for G7:

1) The Czar builds summer palace over looking the Black Sea and takes up sailing. After getting the hang of putting the pointy end first and allowing a greater depth of water under the ship than the depth of its hull the Russian Navy goes on to sail round the world in record time without gaining a single sickness level and finding the North West passage in the process.

2) The Sultan finds the Grand Vizier in his harem and that the Eunch Grand Vizier is not missing all the bits he is surposed to be missing.
After the Sultans "Gardiners" bury the Grand Vizier head first in six foot of compost he goes on to appoint the Bey of Moldavia Grand Vizier and win best in class for Tulips and Roses at the Ottoman Garden Show.

3) Following marriage and becoming a father ......King James tough attitude mellows and he pardons his royal relative Roger Martel (Chairman of the HWIC company). Roger returns to London and helps set up the Bank of England, the Post Office and when he finally passes away after thirty years as a pillar of the financial establishment and during his sixth period as Lord Mayor of London his huge fortune is divided between 4 ex wives and 15 mistresses.

4) Lord Godolphin writes a "Wealth of Nations" in France were he is able to establish paper money and Paris as the centre of the world bond market. The former French Treasurer is never found but stories in the east talk of a huge pleasure palace built in Darkest Persia.

5) Or should that be darkest "Moghul-Persian Empire".........The Shah marries a Princess of the Royal Timurid House and eventually after 95 people fell from windows, drowned in the bath or walked in front of an elephant the two realms unite.

6) The Royal House of Hapsburg continues to to be dispised, mistrusted and generally mis-liked - mostly in the Hungarian Diet.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Following on what was said in another thread about events likely to happen in the future. I thought I would dig out the crystal ball and see what "Mystic Stu" could come up with for G7:

Mystic Stu's crystal ball? Would that be the one made from obsidian which so aided Spain's understanding that he managed to so badly misunderstand why the French army was crossing through Flanders and what the French envoy was saying? King James does not need such artificial aids to see into the near future, so perhaps to avoid misrepresenting possible future events for non players, the view from England will be appreciated:

Stuart Bailey wrote:
1) The Czar builds summer palace over looking the Black Sea and takes up sailing. After getting the hang of putting the pointy end first and allowing a greater depth of water under the ship than the depth of its hull the Russian Navy goes on to sail round the world in record time without gaining a single sickness level and finding the North West passage in the process.

The Russian navy is not a joke. Sure the Tsar has had bad luck when it comes to ships - one fleet being sunk in port by a huge number of Swedish vessels; another fleet being burnt to the ground during construction by unknown agents; and various losses to storms. But this does not stop Russian merchant ships carrying lots of cargo safely and without incident in nearly every trade area across the world, making Russia overall the second largest trading power next to Spain. This in itself is a major achievement for a country in the midst of building a large colonial empire. The Tsar can certainly afford to build a palace on the Black Sea, or rather be presented with one by grateful Russian merchants.

King James' prediction: these trends will continue. Russia may even overtake Spain if war between France and Spain breaks out.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
2) The Sultan finds the Grand Vizier in his harem and that the Eunch Grand Vizier is not missing all the bits he is surposed to be missing.
After the Sultans "Gardiners" bury the Grand Vizier head first in six foot of compost he goes on to appoint the Bey of Moldavia Grand Vizier and win best in class for Tulips and Roses at the Ottoman Garden Show.

The Grand Vizier is a much misunderstood chap - English diplomats have found him to be a most reasonable sort, slow to anger in the face of years of Spanish provocation. Although inflammatory statements in newspapers usually tend to provoke a response, there is no evidence that he has anything other than the full confidence of the Sultan.

King James' prediction: the GV is unlikely to lose his head, physically or metaphorically.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
3) Following marriage and becoming a father ......King James tough attitude mellows and he pardons his royal relative Roger Martel (Chairman of the HWIC company). Roger returns to London and helps set up the Bank of England, the Post Office and when he finally passes away after thirty years as a pillar of the financial establishment and during his sixth period as Lord Mayor of London his huge fortune is divided between 4 ex wives and 15 mistresses.

King James sets high standards for his ministers, weeding out imposters and other undesirables. Martel (ex-pirate 'king' and about as royal as the dung heap he sits on, failed chairman of bankrupt HWIC, failed chairman of Spanish North Africa, failed chairman of Spanish post office, etc, etc, still wanted with a price on his head in London) may well be given yet another chance by his Spanish sponsors who have more money than brains and seem to delight in letting him mess up whatever he touches. Rumours that he is actually a Jacobite agent, bent on a one man mission to destroy Spain are gaining credence in London, although Jacobite Naval Intelligence insists that he is not on the payroll. His multi-decade career of incompetence and anti-Spanish activity would count in his favour should he apply, although there is significant doubt that the English treasury could ever afford the bonus they would be obliged to pay him for each successful mission. It is likely that Martel has amassed a fortune which he could give to King James who after paying off the English national debt could remit the rest to pay off the French national debt and earn the undying gratitude of King Louis.

King James' prediction: wholly unnecessary in this case!

Stuart Bailey wrote:
4) Lord Godolphin writes a "Wealth of Nations" in France were he is able to establish paper money and Paris as the centre of the world bond market. The former French Treasurer is never found but stories in the east talk of a huge pleasure palace built in Darkest Persia.

Always difficult to predict what will happen in France. However, it should be pointed out that it is Lord Godolphin's parrot, Esmerelda, who has the keen understanding needed to write a tract on economics.

King James' prediction: France will somehow get over current financial difficulties in his own unique way.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
5) Or should that be darkest "Moghul-Persian Empire".........The Shah marries a Princess of the Royal Timurid House and eventually after 95 people fell from windows, drowned in the bath or walked in front of an elephant the two realms unite.

A united India-Persia might run into a few problems after the Mahrattans appeared as the unlikely ally of Persia in their war against the French.

King James' prediction: Persia should never be underestimated.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
6) The Royal House of Hapsburg continues to to be dispised, mistrusted and generally mis-liked - mostly in the Hungarian Diet.

The Hungarian Diet seems to have quite a positive view of the House of Hapsburg who have convinced their Spanish relations to spend millions keeping them 'loyal', giving them new muskets in exchange for old ones, and antagonising their Ottoman neighbours. King James is not following events in this area very closely, but Queen Catherine's good northern common sense informs him that it is likely that Spain's actions here have likely had precisely the opposite effect intended. If Spain had not baited the Ottomans then Hungarians would have had nothing to fear from them; arming Hungarians simply allows them to revolt from their Hapsburg overlords and declare neutrality in any war; meanwhile by spending lavishly to boost the Hungarian economy Spain is simply making them less financially dependent upon Vienna.

King James' prediction: Hungary will continue to see the House of Hapsburg for what it is.

Papa Clement wrote:

Mystic Stu's crystal ball?  Would that be the one made from obsidian which so aided Spain's understanding that he managed to so badly misunderstand why the French army was crossing through Flanders and what the French envoy was saying?  King James does not need such artificial aids to see into the near future, so perhaps to avoid misrepresenting possible future events for non players, the view from England will be appreciated:

- Would like to point out I was only joking about the mystic powers of my obsidian crystal ball! Indeed the whole post was intended to be as light hearted as possible.

However to avoid misrepresenting things for non players, one view from England would be appreciated - Basically if everything done by Spain iin G7 is either idiotic, sloppy on just out and out wrong why is Spain still intact in G7? And not looking a lot more like Spain in G10 for instance?

Light hearted or just consistent with previous misunderstandings?

I have never said that Spain is doing everything wrong - quite the opposite - but I do take issue with the narrative presented and the assumptions that Spain can do no wrong so everyone who does not agree with Spain is somehow misguided.

You and I both know that the main reasons Spain in G7 has not suffered from anything like the conflict in other games include:
1. The unique set up of the position whereby Spain was divided in 2 obliged those 2 players to either work together or obtain the backing of France.
2. The player for France was unwilling to back Bourbon Spain in a war, preferring a diplomatic solution. A disappointed Bourbon Spain then dropped, leaving France and Hapsburg Spain (now united under you) to avoid war.
3. Although this very nearly came undone thanks to a belligerent Austria and incompetent England, it was not until 1705-06 when Spain and France were at war, by which time Spain had plenty of time to prepare and had several years to develop her economy and advanced technology, giving her an almost unassailable lead over all other countries.

Had that player for France decided to back Bourbon Spain and fight in 1700-02, then the result may well have been a similar mess to G10. So whilst not wishing to cast a shadow over your achievements, you should perhaps recognise that the wisdom and generosity of the then player for France greatly helped Spain.

Of course this came at a diplomatic cost - originally France stood alone against an alliance of Spain, Austria, UDP, England. Thanks largely to the strategy followed by that original player for France, England is now allied to France, while UDP is also outside the Spanish-led alliance. The military balance of power would appear to have moved against Spain and in favour of France. Although England/France have been weakened by war the economic balance of power is in favour of Spain. So perhaps that player for France knew what he was doing after all?

The current balance could be the formula for a lasting peace, but I can see how you find it frustrating. No doubt the next few turns will see whether Spain can find someone who wants to fight so that you can put your economic advantage to the test.

The funny part is that I played the HWIC for a short while with an intent of bringing them back in alliance with King James.

But, I got such abuse before I even had a chance to offer the olive branch and disentangle the position from its former activities that I ended up just dropping the position.

The perils of playing a pirate!

At a different time it may well have been interesting to resurrect HWIC, but the cost for England was just too high. In its early days I spent a great deal of time trying to help the HWIC player to go legit, but it was clear that since its inception HWIC was never a profitable position - it was and always would be dependent upon the generosity of larger sponsors. This is why it kept changing sides. You may have genuinely wanted to abandon all your links with Spain and give up that income/recruits from Spanish North Africa, but it would have taken a long time for England to have replaced them and I would never have known whether you were truly loyal or simply exploiting both sides as previous players for HWIC did. Also you have to remember that England had no income: I had to lease America to Russia to get enough money to restore England's finances and pay upkeep - I also had other factions trying to grab colonies/countries, so your timing couldn't have been worse.

My conclusion, rightly or wrongly, was that supporting HWIC to change sides yet again would be a drain on England's scarce resources and amount to paying protection. Far cheaper to shut HWIC down and confiscate their assets - at least that way I recovered some of the money and trade they had siphoned off over the years. I've made some mistakes playing England, but had I backed HWIC then that would have been a huge one that could well have sunk my efforts to keep England afloat.

I'll never know precisely how much HWIC stole from England, but it took years to clear them out and even now there are still HWIC cells operating in some colonies. So as a game line it was certainly interesting to hunt them down.


I think HWIC's major problem from the beginning was that it was nominally an English trading company (with certain dodgy characters involved), but no English player was prepared to support them. If HWIC had been set up a bit like HEIC was historically and actually had control of England's Indian colonies to provide a legitimate income, company troops/ships and a recruit base, then it would have been naturally linked to England as part of a team. It would then not really have mattered if English players changed or were inconsistent, if England was at war or peace - HWIC would always have found something to do. I think VOIC was also active at one stage, controlling the Dutch East Indies, so that kind of setup would also have worked.

If it was set up as I have suggested then HWIC could have taken advantage of periods where England was inactive, becoming a force in Parliament and speaking for the mercantile interest, obtaining genuine subsidies which future players of England would have been obliged to live with. Eventually they could have almost been running England during periods when it was inactive.

But once there had been 2-3 players within the first 4 years of the game, and then England was trapped in a war with France, it really left HWIC without a reason for existing. France backed HWIC for a long time in this war, but when the returns were not justified (and HWIC was caught spying for the enemy), HWIC had really hung itself - it had to throw in its lot with Spain and no doubt the player enjoyed doing plenty of sneaky things for Spain.

I actually have a lot of respect for the original player of HWIC who really tried his best to keep the position alive and find alternative sponsors. Eventually he overplayed his hand and was caught out, but he had a long run.

It wasn't actually a pirate position. I've played those before.

They didn't actually have many assets in England at the point you were confiscating things. The damage to the position was minimal. It just ensured that there was no reason to ever go back.

I had joined the game initially because I thought what was happening to James was unfair, but I decided after playing for a bit... maybe not.

It wasn't just English assets that were seized, but HWIC worldwide assets, and equally importantly it restored lost trade revenues and the reputation of honest English merchants which opened up profitable markets previously closed.  I simply could not have done that if I was associated in any way with pirates.  You may not have been aware of the background of various HWIC characters and their hidden traits, but I can assure you from the interrogations that many were.

Oddly enough I didn't view what was happening to my character as unfair - I came in knowing that it was going to be almost impossible to make it work and I wasn't heavily invested in the position so I would have quit if it became clear that what I was trying to do wasn't going to work.  But once I'd overcome the initial hurdles and knew what I was facing in terms of enemies, it became "very tough" instead of "impossible", and by that stage it was more a case of figuring out how to get round whatever was thrown in the way.  Opening each turn and finding disasters that would have broken nearly anyone else became the norm, and working out how to deal with them whilst still trying to strengthen the position became the main point of playing.  I would regularly expect most of my orders to go wrong which is not something most players can cope with.

Of course we all need friends and allies in games, and I certainly couldn't have got through without help from them.  But ultimately we play for enjoyment and however nasty the opposition was, the challenges actually kept me playing.  This is something my enemies never appreciated.

It is always dangerous to assume that a player will quit when things get tough, especially when that player is me.  Unless real world reasons intervened, I've left positions in the past when:
1. I have completed game objectives.  Not every position I take on is a 10 year slog - I might have much short term objectives or things I just want to try out because I've never had the chance to do them.
2. I couldn't find a positive reason for continuing to play that particular position.  I don't play just to be a thorn in the side of others and ruin their enjoyment, so if that is what the position is reduced to by the actions of others then that is quite a powerful reason to leave.  Standing on the sidelines and writing snide comments in the newspaper every turn to sneer at others in the hope it pushes my honour to the top of the table isn't worth my time.  If I can find a positive reason then I sometimes rejoin.
3. I am being forced to play in a way that undermines the historical basis of that position.  As a player who values historical research, I do try to recreate what my character would have done in particular circumstances and how he would have approached challenges.  If Parliament required King James to become protestant to keep his crown then I couldn't have accepted that as historically there is no way King James would have renounced his faith.

At the moment none of these apply, so I guess you're stuck with me.

I rather miss the first player of the HWIC.

Unlike like Blackbeard character who was an out and out pirate (do I still sulk over Havana....yes!!!) but who used political parties and sometimes trade companies as a front the HWIC was always first and foremost a trade company which used to put real effort and detail into its trade ventures such as the Whiteby Kipper Plant, the Arms factory in Bristol etc, etc.

The Compaigne du Portobello a Spanish trade company subsidary of the HWIC, Spanish Post Office and Royal Bank of Africa were all further examples of such trade ventures with real detail put in.

Think the HWIC problems in its home territory came when its home marrket fell to bits due to French invasions, famine and not to put too fine a point on it the total mess and confusion in the main English Govt which also tended to ignore the HWIC. Indeed gave the HWIC HQ in Kingston to the French! Meanwhile the other English faction's - Blackbeard and the sons of liberty and the Jacobites were foes. With Blackbeard trying to drive the HWIC out of North America and Jacobite corsairs sailing out of French ports hit its shipping.

Result at one stage the HWIC was the only English faction talking to Spain and the Compaigne du Portobello grew into a much larger trade company than all of the rest of the HWIC combined.

Think both players who ran the HWIC did try and work with Jacobite Governments of various types (Jacobite lite x2, NPC Jacobite and James III Jacobite) but found it too much both. It was then really, really unfortunate for the HWIC that it had just taken steps to bring King William back from Scotland and restore some political stability (or High Treason if you are a Jacobite Minister of Justice) when Richard replaced NPC Jacobite Govt with full James III Jacobite Red in tooth and claw.

The HWIC who were not already in the Spanish Empire for business reasons decided to go there for health reasons and rapidly re-flagged and transferred their mobile assets to the Compaigne - but their beloved non mobile assets like the Fish smoking and gun powder mills etc were then picked off by James III with various people hacked to death by Jacobite Dragoons.

A sad end for the HWIC but on the bright side its daughter Company the Compaigne du Portobello is still well placed on the America's trade list and its Chairman is still Viceroy of Spanish Africa and has established the Spanish Foreign Legion. So things could be worse!

Papa Clement wrote:Light hearted or just consistent with previous misunderstandings?

Had that player for France decided to back Bourbon Spain and fight in 1700-02, then the result may well have been a similar mess to G10.  So whilst not wishing to cast a shadow over your achievements, you should perhaps recognise that the wisdom and generosity of the then player for France greatly helped Spain.  

Wisdom perhaps, generosity I am not so sure about. My reading of situation in 1702 was that France could have rejected the wishes of the Spanish people and attacked to put the Duc of Anjou on the throne.

Spain would have been a lot weaker in 1702 than a decade later but such a French attack on Spain would have in 1702 almost certainly would triggered a wider war with the then very anti French Anglo-Dutch and the Holy Roman Emperor as well as Spain.

No doubt Spain in G7 benefited from not being French target No1 but did the French benefit more from not getting stuck in a Spanish bog while the colonies etc were savaged by the Anglo-Dutch?

This basically is the classic problem for Franch foreign policy......does it adopt a policy of Spain first? Rhine first? Or England first?

In G7 the French signed treaties and put major priority on the Navy from day 1 - showing a policy of England First, UDP 2nd, Hapsburg's third. To be fair this has worked very well.

But I would not say its 100% proof that this is the best policy for France. Like most things in game it comes down to luck and other player actions. The success of this policy in G7 has owed a huge debt to the James III player and Russian intervention on a whim.

Quite clearly and esp after French defeat in 1706 a lot of players would have dropped James III out of a window, crowned good Queen Anne and drifted back into a anti French position. Others might have continued with James III but taken the offer of a Spanish bride and a very, very large dowry and distanced themselves from France.

As for the massive Russian intervention which saved James III and French policy it is clear that most players would not have done this since every Russian Govt since the one which signed the deal has moaned about it.

Stuart Bailey wrote:I rather miss the first player of the HWIC.

Unlike like Blackbeard character who was an out and out pirate (do I still sulk over Havana....yes!!!) but who used political parties and sometimes trade companies as a front the HWIC was always first and foremost a trade company which used to put real effort and detail into its trade ventures such as the Whiteby Kipper Plant, the Arms factory in Bristol etc, etc.

The Compaigne du Portobello a Spanish trade company subsidary of the HWIC, Spanish Post Office and Royal Bank of Africa were all further examples of such trade ventures with real detail put in.

Think the HWIC problems in its home territory came when its home marrket fell to bits due to French invasions, famine and not to put too fine a point on it the total mess and confusion in the main English Govt which also tended to ignore the HWIC. Indeed gave the HWIC HQ in Kingston to the French! Meanwhile the other English faction's - Blackbeard and the sons of liberty and the Jacobites were foes. With Blackbeard trying to drive the HWIC out of North America and Jacobite corsairs sailing out of French ports hit its shipping.

Result at one stage the HWIC was the only English faction talking to Spain and the Compaigne du Portobello grew into a much larger trade company than all of the rest of the HWIC combined.

Think both players who ran the HWIC did try and work with Jacobite Governments of various types (Jacobite lite x2, NPC Jacobite and James III Jacobite) but found it too much both. It was then really, really unfortunate for the HWIC that it had just taken steps to bring King William back from Scotland and restore some political stability (or High Treason if you are a Jacobite Minister of Justice) when Richard replaced NPC Jacobite Govt with full James III Jacobite Red in tooth and claw.

The HWIC who were not already in the Spanish Empire for business reasons decided to go there for health reasons and rapidly re-flagged and transferred their mobile assets to the Compaigne - but their beloved non mobile assets like the Fish smoking and gun powder mills etc were then picked off by James III with various people hacked to death by Jacobite Dragoons.

A sad end for the HWIC but on the bright side its daughter Company the Compaigne du Portobello is still well placed on the America's trade list and its Chairman is still Viceroy of Spanish Africa and has established the Spanish Foreign Legion. So things could be worse!

At least we agree that the original player for HWIC brought a certain colour to the game.

I think you are probably agreeing with my analysis - at startup HWIC's main investments and base were in English territory so it was dependent upon good relations with England. But why should any English player allow HWIC to duplicate activities they could do themselves, especially when HWIC was operating in a way that damaged England's trade and potentially her honour? If I was playing England at startup with an active HWIC I would have found a use for them and supported them up to a point because that is how the game was set up. But if HWIC had turned on me then I would have been obliged to deal with them. In the early years HWIC was really forced to turn to France or Spain for support given the instability of England and lack of support from those players. That worked fine so long as England and France were at peace. But once war broke out you simply cannot have a 3rd party sat in the middle playing both sides off against each other. HWIC became a liability to both England and France - taking prizes that their respective navies would otherwise have taken, smuggling between countries to break blockades, whilst also asking for subsidies and providing intelligence for both sides.

After losing most of her trade revenue in England due to the war with France, HWIC concentrated on building French trade revenue. Spain then saw a way for HWIC to be a conduit to get Spanish goods into French colonies (something encouraged by the then separate player for French colonies in his brief tenure - directly opposed to the policy of France). That was clearly unacceptable to France, so HWIC found French markets closed to her and had to abandon French revenue for Spanish. So within a few years HWIC had to rebuild more or less from scratch 3 times. Spain couldn't (or wouldn't) defend her colonies so allowed some of the less important ones to be under the control of HWIC and did try to set the position up in a way that gave it a long term future. But the price of that was HWIC becoming a subsidiary position of Spain (through the Portobello Comopany etc). Its chairman failed to defend Spanish North Africa and used the recruits he had been given (along with captured foreign merchant crews) to build cruisers and raise the "Spanish Foreign Legion" which really says it all.

By the time I joined as King James HWIC was more thoroughly embedded in the Spanish interest than it had ever been with England or France. HWIC was using its buildings and operations in England to prepare the ground for UDP's invasion and was behind the rebellions in certain towns. Meanwhile in America, as you observe, Stuart, it was busy trying to get whole colonies to defect - something which is still causing problems 8 years later.

Blackbeard may or may not have been an enemy of HWIC - as a narrative I will acknowledge it is possible and interesting. From King James' perspective a pirate is a pirate so should be eliminated. What I do find curious is that despite the historic grievance over his raid on Havana, when Blackbeard was observed overhauling English merchant ships by a large Spanish fleet, they did nothing to either stop this happening or try to capture Blackbeard and claim whatever prize the Spanish government must still have on his head. This does suggest that at some time in the recent past Spain has reached an accommodation with Blackbeard and is now working with both Blackbeard and HWIC/PortobelloCo to prey on non-Spanish merchant ships.

I'm fairly sure that if a new player decided to try HWIC again he would be given a warm welcome by Spain (he would have to be since Spain can easily afford to subsidize such a position without affecting her trade/reputation), but HWIC would still find itself in deep trouble with England (and possibly France). Whether Martel would suddenly then display outstanding competence and begin running Spanish North Africa, the Spanish Post Office, the Spanish banking system, etc, as profitable concerns remains to be seen. Of course it is always possible that Martel was behind the French financial crisis (act of revenge?) and all the stolen money will indeed turn up with him when he docks in Trinidad. Stranger things have happened in G7. But if this proves to be the case, will Spain welcome him with open arms or find that he has just become too much of a liability?

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Papa Clement wrote:Light hearted or just consistent with previous misunderstandings?

Had that player for France decided to back Bourbon Spain and fight in 1700-02, then the result may well have been a similar mess to G10.  So whilst not wishing to cast a shadow over your achievements, you should perhaps recognise that the wisdom and generosity of the then player for France greatly helped Spain.  

Wisdom perhaps, generosity I am not so sure about. My reading of situation in 1702 was that France could have rejected the wishes of the Spanish people and attacked to put the Duc of Anjou on the throne.

Spain would have been a lot weaker in 1702 than a decade later but such a French attack on Spain would have in 1702 almost certainly would triggered a wider war with the then very anti French Anglo-Dutch and the Holy Roman Emperor as well as Spain.

No doubt Spain in G7 benefited from not being French target No1 but did the French benefit more from not getting stuck in a Spanish bog while the colonies etc were savaged by the Anglo-Dutch?

This basically is the classic problem for French foreign policy......does it adopt a policy of Spain first? Rhine first? Or England first?

In G7 the French signed treaties and put major priority on the Navy from day 1 - showing a policy of England First, UDP 2nd, Hapsburg's third. To be fair this has worked very well.

But I would not say its 100% proof that this is the best policy for France. Like most things in game it comes down to luck and other player actions. The success of this policy in G7 has owed a huge debt to the James III player and Russian intervention on a whim.

Quite clearly and esp after French defeat in 1706 a lot of players would have dropped James III out of a window, crowned good Queen Anne and drifted back into a anti French position. Others might have continued with James III but taken the offer of a Spanish bride and a very, very large dowry and distanced themselves from France.

As for the massive Russian intervention which saved James III and French policy it is clear that most players would not have done this since every Russian Govt since the one which signed the deal has moaned about it.

One of the first things France did was to look at her colonial Empire and rationalise it so it was easier to defend. Then send sizeable garrisons to ensure they were not going to fall to local rebellions (something Spain, England and to an extent UDP failed to do). The wisdom of this policy was proved when Persia attacked French India, it withstood 2 sieges from vastly superior numbers.

France prioritized the navy over the army for 2 obvious reasons:
1. France already had the largest army by far so didn't need any more troops.
2. In any future war against Spain, England or UDP, France needed more ships so she could move her armies around quickly and/or come to the aid of her colonies.

I don't think there was any conscious ranking of possible enemies - quite the opposite. France had treaties with Spain and Austria; UDP was mainly interested in trade rather than fighting; and it was only when England broke her agreement with France that the war started. There were 2 aspects that were slightly misguided:
1. France's faith that those she signed treaties with would keep them. England's failure to keep treaties could be put down to the chaotic series of players, so in a sense is forgiveable. But when Austria broke her non-aggression treaty within 3 months of signing, she knew exactly what she was doing and permanently damaged her relations across Europe.
2. France's treaty with Russia. This was always of more benefit to Russia than France since when France was attacked Russian troops were simply too far away to help. In the longer term, of course, this treaty was helpful because the player for Russia was honourable and did not forget the way France had been betrayed so when it came to helping France's ally, England, Russia did step up and agree to the lease of America. The price, of course, was high and Russia has already made huge profits which she has used to develop her trade. So Spanish sour grapes over this deal has long been understood: it not only saved England, but helped Russia to become the closest trading rival to Spain. That does not mean the deal was a bad one for France, England or Russia - even though it was for Spain.

I can agree that there are always alternative ways to play France - and in each game the major players will look at the options they have and respond to the stance taken by others. But it is clear that in G7 France's strategy worked.

It was never likely to be an option for King James to abandon France after all King Louis had sacrificed - the proposed Spanish marriage (and generous cash settlement) was an opportunistic attempt by Spain to buy England as an ally and inflict a diplomatic defeat on France. It is possible that if a new player had joined at that time in total ignorance of what had happened in the game then Spain might have got away with it, but it was always a long shot and so blatantly transparent that only a fool would have fallen for it. English players before me may well have been tempted, but it is never a good idea for new players to turn on long established allies.

April 1714 Glori du Roi has shown up and for non players G7 players here are the highlights:

1) In its traditional first place…….Russian ships lost = 7

All seven ships were slavers and its possible that the ships were taken by slaves thinking it was better to die in a slave revolt than of the cold in Siberia. Other possible causes would be the more traditional storms in the Pacific, ice and sea monsters

2) Other shipping losses were 20 Persian in African waters and 9 French off the Horn of Africa and in the Indian Ocean as the Naval War between France and Persia warms up. Currently Persia is listed as being in third place for trade with Africa while France is in fourth. One suspects that the Persians are trying to drive the French out of east Africa and the Red Sea in the same way as they destroyed French trade with India. While the French Navy is trying to do the same to the Persians off the west coast.

But have they actually got ride of the French from India? Since in the so called “English” colony of Pondicherry a group statue showing civilians and soldiers of the heroic defence of Pondicherry, 1711-12, has been unveiled by General Nicholas de Fay, Marquis de Latour-Maubourg. No doubt the Persians are now wondering if Pandicherry is flying a false flag and if they have to go all the way to West Africa to wage their Jihad?

3) If the Persian Navy does go south and west one wonders if the good burghers of Cape Town will get a good view of a major Naval clash ?! Sadly the viewers will not include HWIC staff as the Cape Town authorities have closed their warehouse.

4) After a shocking decade of wars with France, Spain, Scotland & the UDP. Famines, fires, pro Jacobite revolts and anti Jacobite revolts the last foreign armies (mostly French) seem to be making their way out of England and Scotland. While England tries to settle down to a period of cricket and sheep breeding. Probably someone should inform King James that now he is head of the Church of England that it is ok to play cricket after communion on Sunday (not Mass). Meanwhile foreign mercenary forces who fought in the Dutch Service also seem to be making their way home.

5) More good news for the English Government is that the Dutch have ceded control of Chinsura to them and Curacao to the French. Not such good news for the London Government is that the Pro Persian Government in Delhi has doubled the tax rate on English trade to 20% due to English support for the French against their Muslim bothers.

6) In other colonial news the Russian’s have taken over the Prussian African colony of Gross Friederichsburg with the German troops who used to hold the place sailing for Konigsberg.
While in Mexico City the Viceroy has found some engineers to sort out the water supply and is trying to make the place look smarter than Lima with some very artistic water fountains.

7) While in Trinidad Spanish Naval officers & customs officials have been boarding and searching every merchant ship in port. They were as polite as they possibly could be. Extensive checks however failed to find large stashes of coin, or any sign or mention of a certain Msr. Nicolas
Desmarets. Who is reputed to have sailed for Trinidad with an unknown but large sum stolen from the French Treasury he used to be head off. Spanish customs think its unlikely that anyone would have told the truth about were he was going with his stolen loot…….but since he is French you never know!


Meanwhile back in France Louis XIV has given an award to a parrot! The old boy is clearly starting to lose it!! He has also demanded that Spain arrest Nicolas Desmarets, say sorry for helping Nicolas Desmarets steal the money and refund the money stolen just as soon as the French work out what has been stolen and promise never to do it again! Or Spain should get ready to be smacked hard!

9) Charles III of Spain is clearly ready to arrest Nicolas Desmarets and refund any cash stolen by the ex Treasurer of Louis XIV but really dislikes himself or his Government being charged with robbery and has sworn on the alter of Naples Cathedral and Holy relics that such charges are a lie.

- The Spanish seem to think that rather than talking to parrots the French could have talked to them about the theft and the get away ship.

10) King Charles of Sweden is on love with a Dane…...Lady Sophie Rosenkrantz.

11) Twenty Prussian staff officers held captive by the Swedes have escaped. No clue as to why these men were captives of the Swedes …….what will their Elector and the Emperor think!

12) The Czar is upset about his shipping losses last month but seems to be building more to replace them. Why? Is it a new form of population control?

This alternative view of April 1714 may disappoint some regular readers in its brevity, but there really has been little significant movement on many aspects the world was waiting for. Not that this can spoil what has been an exceptionally good turn for King James:

1. In a very mysterious happening, 7 Russian ships reported to be carrying slaves to Nevyansk have disappeared. Rumours that Nessie has struck again are dismissed by Scottish lawyers, in part because Nevyansk is on the river Neyva, in the middle of central Asia, so it is unclear whether the ships were lost in the Baltic or Black Seas. Perhaps someone is jealous of Russia’s growing colonial Empire or Desmarets has bought the help of a pirate fleet and they are now attacking Russian shipping?

2. Losses from the Franco-Persian war continue, with 20 Persian ships lost but only 9 French. Oddly the Great Moghul thinks England is at war with Persia, when this is not the case at all. There is clearly a 3rd party stirring up trouble. Meanwhile life is getting back to normal in the English colony of Pondicherry, with a statue celebrating the heroic defence of the town by the Marquis de Latour-Maubourg. Valour is not forgotten and it may prove useful to have such a fine commander should anyone try to attack English colonies again.

3. The new, honourable, enlightened and thoroughly well run government of UDP has continued the long process of complying with the terms of the recently signed Treaty of Amsterdam by transferring colonies to England and France. A warehouse discovered to be owned by HWIC has also been shut down in CapeTown – no mercy for pirates is shown by either government.

4. Russia continues to reorganise Gross Friederichsburg – a distraction from mourning last month’s shipping losses.

5. In Mexico City the Spanish Viceroy has managed to improve the water supply with style.

6. King Charles of Sweden (or is it now Emperor Charles of the Kalmar Union?) seems to be on a one-man diplomatic charm mission in Denmark. Not sure how well this will go down in Sweden, but the Lutheran church seems pleased with his new translation of the shortened (protestant) Bible.

7. King Charles of Spain has protested his innocence of involvement with the Desmarets Affair in the strongest terms and has ordered thorough searches of all ships approaching Trinidad. This is to his credit, although the slander directed against King James and King Louis has slightly undermined the Spanish defence.

8. Over in Versailles King Louis has made his views clear – he will not be conned into signing a treaty with Spain, and has demanded an apology and various other measures before there are any negotiations. In more positive news, the English ambassador, Lord Godolphin, has been created Marquis de Bretagne in recognition of his investigations – this was unexpected, but it is always nice to be appreciated. King James is believed to be more delighted by the title ‘Advocatus Sapientiae’ (Advocate of Wisdom) bestowed on Godolphin’s parrot, Esmerelda, “because this super-intelligent parrot saw through Spanish deceit when some courtiers did not.” An inspired move that proves King Louis has certainly not lost his sense of humour in these disturbing times!

9. The front page is taken up with the most important development this month: the creation of the 3-Kingdoms cricket league. Whilst the rest of the world is close to erupting in war, King James proves once again that England has other priorities.

10. Meanwhile King James has reviewed some old cases and reached an understanding with those who have previously been in trouble with the authorities. He has even managed to track down the Spanish/Flanders ambassador/spy Figuerio who has been so co-operative in detailing how Spain funded the Kentigern rebellions in Scotland. Whether Spain appreciates this is yet to be discovered, but it could be evidence of a remarkable turnaround in Anglo-Spanish relations. Indeed, King James has been described as being almost as pleased with Spain this turn as with Esmerelda’s title. Whether King Charles can figure out why is another matter. Odds are, of course that he will mess it up again next month: like Persia, Spain should never be underestimated.

So overall a good turn for England and UDP, but a somewhat mixed turn for others.

A small point of Order, with Regards the Russian shipping ( Is it s curse?) losses.

Those ships were actually carrying EX SLAVES, who were off to start new lives under the enlightened rule of Russian Department East.

The Russian Admiralty has released a statement, that Commerce Raiders, Pirates, Privateers, Sea Monsters & Co should refrain from attacking & sinking Russian shipping. The Russian Navy & Merchant marine, requires no assistance in sinking shipping, it can do a good professional job on its own. Thank you very much.


Have had a thought about the Russian Naval prowess, it has been mentioned at times on the forum that there maybe( citation needed) inbuilt factors that benefit some positions like trade advantages etc. Add in the ability to raise Elite crews by some( lucky buggers) positions indicates a naval advantage in fighting fleets. Could it be the Russian position is on the other end of the scale? Due to lack of Naval Tradition, after all Historically Peter basically build his navy from scratch. Could it be possible that this factor is then built in.

If Ex-Slaves perhaps they decided to use their new found freedom to turn ship around and follow a life style different to that of being a serf in Siberia.

I know, I know...... its terrible that some people just do not understand the huge advantages of life under the kindly Czar! And its probably really, really hard for Russians to understand but a diet of Vodka, black bread and pickled cabbage, having to listen too 5 hour Orthodox services in temputure 50 degree above in Summer & 50 below in Winter is just not for everyone!

There are even strange people (mostly English) who would sooner drink Beer & tea, eat roast beef and Yorkshire pudding then go have have a quick sing song on a Sunday before sending the afternoon playing cricket.

Ref the Russian Navy problems the original game rules used to say a certain number of units would opperate a full effect per honour point. For most positions it was 10 Army & 10 Navy. But some differed for historic reasons - so for Austria it was 13 Army Units and 3 Ships and Prussia 12 Army Units and 2 ships while for England it as 6 units or 20 ships.

This tended to result in really tough Prussian and Austrian Armies able to field effectively field the large cavalry forces needed in Eastern Europe..... but sail out of the calm waters or Adriatic or Baltic and into blue water were only proper sailors go and any Prussian or Austrian yacht squadron was probably going to have problems!

A carry over of this original rule in some form or other would explain while the English G7 player could comment about last war that while his Navy we really durable and shrugged of the effect of storms and sunk Admirals his Army units tended to melt away due to desertion etc due to the slightest thing even at home. Leaving aside the fact that its easier to desert on home territory rather than in the middle of a Ocean and historically some soldiers used to desert every autumn and sign up again in the spring to pick up recruitment bounty. The English may have same problem as Russians only other way round?

As for Russians while it said 10/10 I wonder if its a case of Czar Peter's Guards, Artillery, Regular Cavalry etc are rock solid........Russian Line Units are next next........then Cossacks & other 2nd line irregulars..........then coming up in last place is the new fangled Navy with its crews of sea sick serfs.

Too a degree other Eastern Armies seem to work in same way with a hard core which do most of the fighting and a lot of rabble basically good for digging and plundering but a liability in an actual battle?

Interestingly the Persian Fleet in G10 and Ottoman Fleets in other games seem to be part of the professional hard core and are perfectly good sailors and fighters. But I wonder if a Great Moghul decided to copy Peter the Great and basically build a modern Navy from scratch would we be talking about the curse of the Moghul Navy as another one goes down in a Typhoon (or perhaps due to Nessie taking hols in Goa).

And G7 has hit the inbox...

...and in surprise news, no Russians appear to have sunk, got lost at sea, or even been seasick this month!

The Russian Navy might start to get delusions of adequacy...

...and the Emperor is Dead, long live the Emperor(-elect)!

Jason2 wrote:And G7 has hit the inbox...

...and in surprise news, no Russians appear to have sunk, got lost at sea, or even been seasick this month!

The Russian Navy might start to get delusions of adequacy...

...and the Emperor is Dead, long live the Emperor(-elect)!

Oh my God I am an Orphan! Still at least its not G10 and the other way round.

All hail to by elder brother......Josef King of the Romans and Holy Roman Emperor to be.

All the German Kaisers were after the mid C15 "Elected" Because after that time none of them travelled to Rome to be crowned by the Pope. The title King of the Romans , was normally given to the next in line to the Imperial throne, which meant basically the next eligible. Because although technically an Election, the House of Hapsburg held the majority of the votes .

A warm welcome to the new Austrian Kaiser, enjoy the twisty sinister nature of Game Seven . If you need any help with building an Imperial Kreigsmarine don't hesitate to ask anyone else but me!

The electoral system is particularly complicated with 3 electoral colleges and various Electors both Royal, Clerical and Ley, and some electors having seats in all three colleges. To add further complexity, the more important the elector the more votes they have.

Thanks for the offer for help in the building a Kriegsmarine but I'm guessing your ships have not floated so well thus far. It is advisable to spread the canon on both sides of the ship you know.. anyhow I am sure Charles will be more than happy to lend Nuestra Señora de Gracia, the 40 gunner, to his older bruv to see off any weasally pirates in the med.

Floating problems are slowly being solved next problem is to get them to stay up right, good tip with the cannon, will pass it onto the Russian Admiralty.

Vauban wrote:The electoral system is particularly complicated with 3 electoral colleges and various Electors both Royal, Clerical and Ley, and some electors having seats in all three colleges. To add further complexity, the more important the elector the more votes they have.

Thanks for the offer for help in the building a Kriegsmarine but I'm guessing your ships have not floated so well thus far. It is advisable to spread the canon on both sides of the ship you know.. anyhow I am sure Charles will be more than happy to lend Nuestra Señora de Gracia, the 40 gunner, to his older bruv to see off any weasally pirates in the med.

Top tip to how to spot a weasally pirate in G7 then tend to be English.........and pinch your wine, kidnap your archbishops and not give them back even after the ransom was paid and plunder your tobacco stores in Havanna.

Its totally past by understanding how anyone would take up the career path.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Vauban wrote:I am sure Charles will be more than happy to lend Nuestra Señora de Gracia, the 40 gunner, to his older bruv to see off any weasally pirates in the med.

Top tip to how to spot a weasally pirate in G7 then tend to be English.........and pinch your wine, kidnap your archbishops and not give them back even after the ransom was paid and plunder your tobacco stores in Havana.

Its totally past my understanding how anyone would take up the career path.

Now then Stuart, you really can't have it both ways. You have always maintained that Blackbeard sacked Havana and kidnapped one of your archbishops, leading to Spain placing a large bounty on his head. I found it very hard to understand why in 14 years of G7, Spain has never managed to find Blackbeard until the shipping reports of March 1709 "Another English merchant ship has been lost off the south coast of Cuba. The Spanish Navy failed to stop the attack on the vessel by a pirate, but has heard that the person responsible is Blackbeard aboard his cruiser REVENGE. There are also reports of another English merchant trader being lost elsewhere in the West Indies." Why did the Spanish Navy fail to enforce a Spanish arrest warrant against Blackbeard? The only reason I can think of is that Spain was sponsoring Blackbeard as she does HWIC and various other factions. That would also explain why every time England has caught pirates, smugglers and other lawbreakers, Spain has objected and more often than not sent in lawyers to try and free them from prison. Perhaps Spain will one day change her ways and put her resources to use by capturing Desmarets, who for all we know may well have joined Blackbeard and is planning another raid on Havana? Jacobite Naval Intelligence is already investigating a few anonymous tipoffs, but it is early days - you know once English hounds get the scent of a fox they never give up.

Papa Clement wrote:

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Vauban wrote:I am sure Charles will be more than happy to lend Nuestra Señora de Gracia, the 40 gunner, to his older bruv to see off any weasally pirates in the med.

Top tip to how to spot a weasally pirate in G7 then tend to be English.........and pinch your wine, kidnap your archbishops and not give them back even after the ransom was paid and plunder your tobacco stores in Havana.

Its totally past my understanding how anyone would take up the career path.

Now then Stuart, you really can't have it both ways.  You have always maintained that Blackbeard sacked Havana and kidnapped one of your archbishops, leading to Spain placing a large bounty on his head.  I found it very hard to understand why in 14 years of G7, Spain has never managed to find Blackbeard until the shipping reports of March 1709 "Another English merchant ship has been lost off the south coast of Cuba. The Spanish Navy failed to stop the attack on the vessel by a pirate, but has heard that the person responsible is Blackbeard aboard his cruiser REVENGE. There are also reports of another English merchant trader being lost elsewhere in the West Indies."  Why did the Spanish Navy fail to enforce a Spanish arrest warrant against Blackbeard?  The only reason I can think of is that Spain was sponsoring Blackbeard as she does HWIC and various other factions.  That would also explain why every time England has caught pirates, smugglers and other lawbreakers, Spain has objected and more often than not sent in lawyers to try and free them from prison.  Perhaps Spain will one day change her ways and put her resources to use by capturing Desmarets, who for all we know may well have joined Blackbeard and is planning another raid on Havana?  Jacobite Naval Intelligence is already investigating a few anonymous tipoffs, but it is early days - you know once English hounds get the scent of a fox they never give up.

Blackbeard AKA Edward Teach of Bristol....................fairly sure the last time I looked (this morning) Bristol is in England and Pirates from Bristol are English.

Spain almost caught up with Blackbeard once on Cat Island but he got away.

Why no one has claimed the bounty and why no one has caught Blackbeard remains a mystery known only to Richard.

As for where Desmarets is surely he is a French Criminal and it is the French who should be looking for him since they at least know what he looks like and what he has stolen if anything. The only clue they passed to me was a total red herring and a waste of time.

Odd how the French seem to have better knowledge of my Treasury Reports than they do their own.

As an independent character, Blackbeard is nothing to do with England and I can assure you that the only pirates sailing from Bristol in the game were HWIC, a Spanish owned company.

In the month that Spain decorated the uniforms of Spanish officers with tartan, besmirching the honour of Clan Campbell and Clan Johnstone, you'll be trying to tell us next that the newly promoted Col.Sir James Johnstone of the 2nd Regiment of Galicia is Scottish and holding me responsible for his actions?

Top tip for how to spot a weasally pirate in G7: they tend to masquerade as whatever nationality will serve the political interests of Spain ... and spend their time attacking English ships. They rarely bother ransoming Englishmen since they know I never pay ransoms, and devote a great deal of energy and resources to hunting them down.

Top tips for how to find a weasally pirate in G7: Look for them, and keep looking for them until they are found. Extensive research by Jacobite Naval Intelligence has conclusively proved that it is very hard to find something if you are not looking for it.

Top tips for how to avoid finding weasally pirates in G7: offer a pirate amnesty and employ the pirates in Spanish trading companies. Extensive research by Jacobite Naval Intelligence has conclusively proved that every time this has been tried by Spain, absolutely no pirates whatsoever have been found.