G7 - The War of the English Succession & the breaking of the Pirate Brotherhood

Historically speaking, it is surprising that the Habsburg Empire (as distinct from the HRE) existed for so long.

Beset by Enemies in all directions, faced with numerous wars and invasions invariably bankrupting the Empire many times and it faced internal divisions with a diverse makeup of religions and peoples, not to mention the many German kingdoms and Princely States all vying for attention.

It was blessed (or cursed) with a fairly average military, average economy and its leaders had fairly average abilities (with one or two exceptions), and it was out-populated by the French behemoth yet it managed to pull off military victories when it mattered, used its internal Alpine / Carpathian redoubt as a fortress and used a combination of marriage, alliances and buffer States to forge its diplomatic policy.

The previous Austria player was obviously having fun invading England and France but historically Austria sought to preserve its army knowing it couldn't outbuild or out finance its opponents. The fact that in G7 Spain has remained Habsburg (and was actually the senior branch) has made this game an interesting divergence from history.

For Austria's part it is going to be trial and error with the economy but I hope there will be less reliance on Spain in the future and I am sure Spain hopes so too....

Vauban wrote:Historically speaking, it is surprising that the Habsburg Empire (as distinct from the HRE) existed for so long.

Beset by Enemies in all directions, faced with numerous wars and invasions invariably bankrupting the Empire many times and it faced internal divisions with a diverse makeup of religions and peoples, not to mention the many German kingdoms and Princely States all vying for attention.

It was blessed (or cursed) with a fairly average military, average economy and its leaders had fairly average abilities (with one or two exceptions), and it was out-populated by the French behemoth yet it managed to pull off military victories when it mattered, used its internal Alpine / Carpathian redoubt as a fortress and used a combination of marriage, alliances and buffer States to forge its diplomatic policy.

Perhaps.  I'm not quite so pessimistic about Austria, seeing more of the positives.  The Hapsburg marriage policies inevitably led to certain lands being inherited so in the absence of external factors the Hapsburg Empire was always going to grow.  What they seemed to lack was any idea what to do with it when it grew.  As the Ottoman vassals collapsed, Austria moved into the vacuum and the same factors were multiplied.  I agree that it was more a failure of leadership than opportunity - and over a long period.  Centralised or decentralised administration shouldn't have made much difference since either could work, but Austria almost treated its new territories as semi-independent colonies.  Much of the British Empire grew by accident, but individuals usually appeared to do something with it, and the government woke up to its potential, increased investment in both the economy, culture and religion.  This never really happened with Austrian territories, but there is no reason why it couldn't.  In 1700 Austria did have non-Catholic minorities, but send in a few missionaries and many of the ex-Ottoman lands could have been recovered for the Church.  The rationale of building (human/cultural) defences against a renewed Ottoman expansion is powerful and I'm fairly sure historically it would have worked well ... invest in a region and treat it as important, then it becomes so and loyalty to Austria will increase.  But if you just treat it as a resource base, plunder its manpower, tax its people and give nothing back there is no wonder it doesn't feel positively towards Austria.  So I see Austria as being full of potential.

Vauban wrote:The previous Austria player was obviously having fun invading England and France but historically Austria sought to preserve its army knowing it couldn't outbuild or out finance its opponents. The fact that in G7 Spain has remained Habsburg (and was actually the senior branch) has made this game an interesting divergence from history.

For Austria's part it is going to be trial and error with the economy but I hope there will be less reliance on Spain in the future and I am sure Spain hopes so too....

Perhaps in G7 you do have a unique opportunity.  Historically Spain was bankrupt long before 1700 - a sprawling colonial empire, incapable of being governed efficiently, run by lazy and corrupt nobles who squandered the advantages they had.  In G7 you have the opposite: Spain is the strongest nation in the world, under capable leadership, so is in the position to support Austria.  That does make a Hapsburg alliance incredibly powerful so Austria can achieve far more than she did historically.  It is (for Austria) a very positive divergence from history.  The challenge, as you have pointed out, is to find your own voice.  If the previous Austrian player had a plan for what he wanted Austria to become, he only ever considered war to be the means to achieve those objectives.  It wasn't (indeed, war rarely is), and in doing so he set Austria back considerably.  What is curious is that Spain did what Austria should have done - concentrated on the economy and diplomacy, only using war to support those aims. Spain would have succeeded (in G7) without fighting any wars, but increased her lead hugely because her rivals spent long periods at war.  But despite this Spain has not overcome her strategic weaknesses, only bought time and stockpiled resources to allow her to respond.  Nothing is guaranteed in any game, but perhaps the question is not so much whether Austria can survive without close links to Spain, but whether Spain can survive without close links to Austria?

Some powers like Russia, France, Moghul India, Nippon, Persia perhaps even England are fine being played in isolation.

Having played Spain for a fair while I agree with Papa Clement that due to its strategic position Spain is not one of these powers.

In total the Spanish Empire is very strong but de-facto it is a medium sized European state onto which has been tacked x3 small European States and a colonial Empire, great for trade but a sod to plan the defence off! Basically Spain needs allies or it is going to find itself outnumbered everywhere apart from Iberia.

The best ally for Spain is France since this helps at sea and takes all that pressure off the northern frontier. This has certainly been the position adopted by some very good Spanish players in other games who have also taken the opportunity to off load Flanders. Now do not get we wrong in G7 I am very fond of Flanders and will fight to the end to protect it but at the end of the day its a strategic liability which in the last war alone cost Spain £16m in subsidies 50/50 to the UDP and Austria to help defend and quite frankly I do not think I got much protection for the cash.

However, since you play the hand you are given and in G7 I had the Hapsburg Spanish not the Bourbon Spanish alliance with France was not really on and I have stuck by the original allies and even gained a few new ones. Pity the French and the Jacobites pinched by English ally and then my Scots ally, but in all honesty I would probably have tried to split the Anglo-Dutch from their alliance with the Emperor as well in their shoes.

The problem with allies from the Spanish viewpoint is that Spain wants peace to develop its trade and industry and in G7 find some marriage alliances at some stage. It may sometimes look at the lands Louis XIV has pinched over the last 50/60 years and say it wants them back but if the option is half of North America or being up to your ***** in a siege trench in Artois all I can say is the Cailfornia here we come. But having allies does tend to drag you into their rows and cost.

The Emperors (or Daddy as he is known in Madrid) first war against Saxony/Prussia was over before it cost Spain anything, his 2nd to save England from the French cost Spain £5m in subsidies to Austria, the 2nd to save Scotland from the ghastly Francophile Jacobites cost £8m to Austria, £8m to UDP and around £4M to Scots plus various other amounts and a very large number of Spanish Merchant ships and 50m tons of grain burnt by the French in Mexico city. Then I had to help the Emperor rebuild Austrian economy and Army before the bloody Turks and their 5th column backers pinched Hungary.

I like to think Carlos III of Spain is a good and generous ally who does his bit for Holy Mother Church and is kind to small children and animals. But surely this whole thing about paying the Germans to hold the French at bay is Englands job not mine?! Clearly something has gone badly wrong in G7..........oh I remember a couple of English players decided to find out how things would play out if they had a Jacobite restoration.

Spain badly hopes that Josef von Hapsburg interests include the Hungarian livestock Industry, Mining and the Industrial development of Silesia and Austrian Economic policy will stop looking like a version of the Pickwick papers. Personally, I think Austria has got some very interesting trade and industrial options but as Papa Clementi pointed historically and often in game Austria often had A class needs with B class resources.

The kid brother and lack of the C18 alliance and subsidies from England is an interesting deviation from History for Austria in G7. A real do you want the good news or the bad news set up for the new Austrian Govt.

I also suspect that Vienna may become the centre of G7 diplomacy - probably on the basis of:

"Inform your **** brother who we are not speaking too that..........."

&

"Inform the owner of the over fed goat who Spain is not speaking too that........"

Frenchhuge numi was wass ,tons