G7....War declared

Ref Papa Clement comments on latest paper from G7 can I just comment:

1) According to the Czar's clarification that ships which are just captured as prizes do not count - the actual winner of this months "Our Ships Sank trophy" was Spain. Though I would like to say the French have turned to Necromancy again in use of a commander was killed in action in Dublin harbour while fighting for the Jacobites.......surely this is cheating? Also as the Czar has confirmed winning this trophy with a score of less than 10 Lineships or 50 smaller ships does not really count either.

Do wonder if the ship not sinking but its crew dieing of yellow fever, scurvey or getting eat after fleet stuck in ice is more in the spirit of the Czar original award and should count say half?

2) After French attack on Genoa which got them to the frontier with Milan and worried that the French might not stop. The Spanish government paid the Duke of Savoy lots of money to hire troops which could get too Milan a lot quicker than Austrian or Spanish reinforcements. However, the Duke also did not want to weaken his own Army too much in the long run so Madrid also had to send him a couple of full strength Spanish regiments to join the Savoyard service - rather better trained and equiped than the troops sent to Milan I would add.

So basically the Duke of Savoy diplomatic deals with Hapsburgs has got him lots of cash, his merchants trade access to the Spanish Empire and Austria on very good terms and most of the carrying trade for the Duchy of Milan. Plus most importantly his heir is now engaged to the heiress of Austria who lets face it has to be the plum marriage prize in the whole of G7 perhaps on a par with the Hopsdar of Moldavia marrying his daughter to the heir of the Czar. And check out the Hopsdar position on the honour table. If Savoy is "occupied" by Spanish troops than the same thing can be said about France and all of those Swiss Guards.

Would also add since when has anyone paid any attention to the stated reasons for French aggression !? Which have in past included Dredgers, forged documents written in Lemon juice and a overwelming need to hunt down possible smuggling by the HWIC when they are happy to ignore Persian attacks on own fleet and have not shown even a slight interest in finding a missing French treasurer blamed for £50m plus going missing as well.

No....Savoy is being attacked for two reasons i) France wants to link up its conquest of Genoa with France and ii) It wants to cut the Spanish road to Flanders, Austria and the Rhineland. Did wonder if it was an attempt to distract the Emperor from events in Poland but that would be too political and not really military enough for the Junta of Generals running France.

3) In 1700 Roger Martel and the HWIC were loyal tax paying subjects of his majesty King William and Edward Teach was an infamous pirate. So why were English colonial governors hireing a pirate to attack a fellow countryman? Probably should be noted that the only people who were busy hireing Pirates like Rene Tourin etc to attack English and HWIC/HEIC shipping and manufacture a crisis were the Jacobites? If the Governor of Jamacia was a secret Jacobite in 1700 this would explain a lot about the English military disaster on this Island. Still think Dumbarton was a bigger disaster for the Royal Navy as ships and crews lost were the best units of the home fleet. Ships sent to the West Indies were mostly old and slow heavy frigates who's inability to defeat larger, faster and better armed French Line ships and either stop the French landing or break out was a major reason for the disaster. That and the fact that its Governor had done nothing to improve the garrison or its defences........for a decade this had been seen as due to the Governor being an idiot, but was it actually treason?

4) Ref events in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Do not see how this can be described as Catholic Poland against a Lutheran Alliance. The Commonwealth is home to Catholics, Protestants of various types, Orthodox, Jews, Muslims and Unitarians (follow Orthodox rites but accept authority of Church) and its King and Constitution are sworn to uphold religious toleration. While what Papa has called a Lutheran Alliance is in military, political and religious terms dominated by Orthodox Russia. Sweden might be Lutheran but a lot of Prussians including 200,000 French exile settlers are Calvinists.

5) Think the problem for the Commonwealth started when they got rid of Augustus the Strong Elector of Saxony as King on very questionable legal grounds and replaced him with a local Great Lord of Poland who is such a non entity that no one can remember his name and also committs the cardinal crime in Eastern European diplomacy of throwing the Czars letters on the fire without an answer. Still say he is too lazy to actively follow Louis XIV and be horrible to non Catholics. (In Game terms player took over Great Lord position and decided he should be King not some Saxon Elector - but then realized that the Commonwealth is a nightmare position rather than the G1 super power and dropped shortly after with Czars letters left gathering dust for next player - which never happened).

- With Czar blowing smoke out of his ears about people who do not answer his letters this made it easy for the King in Prussia to tack his claim to West Prussia onto the coat tails of the Czar. They then invited the King of Sweden because he does answer Russian letters and its really not polite to have a war in the Baltic/East Europe and not invite the King of Sweden.

6) Interestingly, both the King of Sweden and the Elector of Brandenburg are major princes of the Holy Roman Empire and the Emperor needs their support or at least friendly neatrality if he is to keep the French out of the Empire. First fear was that if War started in Poland it would drag in Saxony and start a war between members of the Holy Roman Empire.

Then the Emperor became aware to his great surprise (I had forgot as well) that his Elector of Saxony had been probably illegally deposed as King of Poland but somehow his father had ignored this event (probably had a sick goat to attend too). This was good in that Princes of the HRE who he needed could have an adventure and expand their lands without starting a war in the HRE which it was his duty to stop.

Only problem was that if Prussia took West Prussia would it then look to expand further like into Saxony for instance? A restored Elector to the Throne of Poland.......probably not restored as Grand Duke of Lithuania would protect Saxony from further Prussian expansion in the HRE and act as a nice buffer between Austria and all of those nasty Cossacks, Tarters, Orthodox bishops etc, etc on the blood lands while dragging Poland itself further West into the civilized orbit of the HRE. Bit like the Kingdom of Bohemia or Prussia itself.

Sadly when the possibility of a legal restoration of Augustus was raised it turned out that Augustus has abandoned being a Catholic and gone back to being a Lutherian which did not make him a very suitable King of Poland in the eyes of the Polish Catholic Church or the Pope......Damn !!

7) Interestingly the Pope then said the Elector of Bavaria would make a suitable King rather than saying the current King of Poland has the full backing of the Church. This would seem to imply that the Church in Poland and the Pope think the removal of Augustus which the Polish diet can do on certain set grounds - was as dodgy as hell. Or they think the current King is a total non entity unable to stand up to irrate Czars and rabid Swedes and Cossacks and the Commonwealth badly needs a new King who is able to pick up either a sword or a pen.

- If any player fancies asking Agema for the position of Elector of Bavaria/King of Poland the good news is that you are married to the Queen of Spain sister (who came with a very big dowry) before that you were married too the sister of both the Emperor and the King of Spain (another large Dowry) but she passed away in child birth. Plus your brother is Bishop-Prince and Elector of Liege-Cologne and King James considers you to be a friend.
You are one of the most important secular Catholic rulers in HRE and clearly favoured by the Pope.

- The bad news is that Bavaria is pretty much in the front line of French aggression against the HRE its Savoy, Baden and then you! As for Poland.......best of luck!!

How the Emperor deals with the crisis in Poland when his best plans are crashing and burning due to idiot Electors abandoning the true faith and the French are about to invade the Empire would seem to be "interesting times". Think the whole of G7 is looking at Vienna and wondering how are you going to deal with this? Story of playing Austria really......getting pulled in various different ways at same time. Its tough being HRE

9) Spain and no one with any sence in 1716 including the Pope!! Still believes in the strange C13 doctrine of Papal lawyers that the Pope is superior to a King and can depose him. A doctrine well and truely smashed by the henchmen of the King of France and the odd Spanish Army sacking Rome. All the Pope and the Spain really said was that if the Polish Diet were to ever decide it needs a new King than the Elector of Bavaria is a jolly fine chap and his wife would make a great Queen of Poland.

As the Electoress of Bavaria is his sister in law the King of Spain was hardly going to say anything different! Could lead to sulks and hurt silences at dinner.

10) Doubt if the Swedes are going to lay formal siege to Mittau since they only brought field guns and no siege guns. Suspect like at Riga in the great Northern War when they just went over the defences and a 30+ Battalion strong Russian Garrison without breaking stride they will just storm the place.
Just hope they do not hurt the Duchess or her son or does the Elector of Brandenberg no longer care about his sister and nephew? Danzig however will probably need a formal siege and a naval blockade too capture.

- Question here is how much will the maritime powers of France, England, UDP and Spain moan about the disturbance of trade? France and Spain probably not at all as they seem set on all out war over Savoy.

12) According to King James in G7 the French Army is the largest and the best in the game. Guess we are about to find out if this is true.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Ref Papa Clement comments on latest paper from G7 can I just comment:

1) According to the Czar's clarification that ships which are just captured as prizes do not count - the actual winner of this months "Our Ships Sank trophy" was Spain.  Though I would like to say the French have turned to Necromancy again in use of a commander was killed in action in Dublin harbour while fighting for the Jacobites.......surely this is cheating?  Also as the Czar has confirmed winning this trophy with a score of less than 10 Lineships or 50 smaller ships does not really count either.

Do wonder if the ship not sinking but its crew dieing of yellow fever, scurvey or getting eat after fleet stuck in ice is more in the spirit of the Czar original award and should count say half?

The newspaper describes ships as lost or missing rather than 'sunk', so until this changes it would be inconsistent to try to separate the causes.  After all I would not wish to be accused of denying the monthly trophy to those who have lost the most ships.  I do know that the newspaper does not always report all losses, but this is probably the first time Spain has sought to disqualify French losses and claim the prize herself!

I assumed the French commander was Rene son of Rene, but who knows?

If we could find a way to include those ships lost to disease and they were consistently reported in the newspaper then I agree that would be within the spirit of the Czar's original idea.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
2) After French attack on Genoa which got them to the frontier with Milan and worried that the French might not stop.  The Spanish government paid the Duke of Savoy lots of money to hire troops which could get too Milan a lot quicker than Austrian or Spanish reinforcements.  However, the Duke also did not want to weaken his own Army too much in the long run so Madrid also had to send him a couple of full strength Spanish regiments to join the Savoyard service - rather better trained and equipped than the troops sent to Milan I would add.

So basically the Duke of Savoy diplomatic deals with Hapsburgs has got him lots of cash, his merchants trade access to the Spanish Empire and Austria on very good terms and most of the carrying trade for the Duchy of Milan.  Plus most importantly his heir is now engaged to the heiress of Austria who lets face it has to be the plum marriage prize in the whole of G7 perhaps on a par with the Hopsdar of Moldavia marrying his daughter to the heir of the Czar.  And check out the Hopsdar position on the honour table.  If Savoy is "occupied" by Spanish troops than the same thing can be said about France and all of those Swiss Guards.

Would also add since when has anyone paid any attention to the stated reasons for French aggression !?  Which have in past included Dredgers, forged documents written in Lemon juice and a overwhelming need to hunt down possible smuggling by the HWIC when they are happy to ignore Persian attacks on own fleet and have not shown even a slight interest in finding a missing French treasurer blamed for £50m plus going missing as well.

No....Savoy is being attacked for two reasons i) France wants to link up its conquest of Genoa with France and ii) It wants to cut the Spanish road to Flanders, Austria and the Rhineland.  Did wonder if it was an attempt to distract the Emperor from events in Poland but that would be too political and not really military enough for the Junta of Generals running France.

Savoy must be a more important piece on the board than I had realised.  It will be interesting how this plays out next turn.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
3) In 1700 Roger Martel and the HWIC were loyal tax paying subjects of his majesty King William and Edward Teach was an infamous pirate.  So why were English colonial governors hireing a pirate to attack a fellow countryman?  Probably should be noted that the only people who were busy hireing Pirates like Rene Tourin etc to attack English and HWIC/HEIC shipping and manufacture a crisis were the Jacobites?  If the Governor of Jamacia was a secret Jacobite in 1700 this would explain a lot about the English military disaster on this Island.  Still think Dumbarton was a bigger disaster for the Royal Navy as ships and crews lost were the best units of the home fleet.  Ships sent to the West Indies were mostly old and slow heavy frigates who's inability to defeat larger, faster and better armed French Line ships and either stop the French landing or break out was a major reason for the disaster.  That and the fact that its Governor had done nothing to improve the garrison or its defences........for a decade this had been seen as due to the Governor being an idiot, but was it actually treason?

Martel found it impossible to be loyal to anyone, even Spain.  From what I recall, in 1700 he failed to establish a working relationship with the player for England, and by 1701 was leaning towards France and Spain, positioning HWIC as a conduit to get around French Navigation Acts.  In 1702 he was infiltrating America and French colonies (which had temporarily separated by then), and by 1703 France was at war with England which he tried to exploit by playing both sides off against each other.  In 1703 when Jamaica fell to France the governor was already senile since he couldn't recall what he had agreed to who and ended up ordering the English fleets to surrender because they were trapped inside Kingston harbour.  It was after he failed to get Jamaica for himself that he turned on France and his sank his teeth deeply into Spain.

The ships England lost in 1703 were not old and slow HFrg, but ordinary SoL and a few cruisers.  So it was not a case of them being outgunned since the French fleet was inferior - they were ordered to surrender by the governor who may (or may not) have been bribed simultaneously by HWIC and/or various other factions which were in their early stages at the time.  Was this treason, quite possibly, and the governor remained on Jamaica for the next couple of years until he died.  The Jacobites (as an independent player position) did not exist until after the presumed death of King James 2nd (late 1701), then they were under French control (French fleet 'The Dunkirkers', which was a few corvettes flying the Jacobite flag under the command of Rene, and which caused Spain much irritation because by then Dunkirk had been exchanged with Flanders for another town along the border).  Nobody really knows what happened in the first year of the game, but whoever raided Havana could not have been paid by the Jacobites since they (as a faction) did not exist.  There are newspaper reports that England lost merchant shipping and the only known active pirate factions at the time were Blackbeard and HWIC.  At the start of the game players could only position forces in a limited number of locations and there was no 'unlimited orders' option so even the largest of states had only 3 military change orders.  Consequently it would have taken a long time to adequately garrison colonies which clearly gave the advantage to pirates that they don't have in later games.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
4) Ref events in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  Do not see how this can be described as Catholic Poland against a Lutheran Alliance.  The Commonwealth is home to Catholics, Protestants of various types, Orthodox, Jews, Muslims and Unitarians (follow Orthodox rites but accept authority of Church) and its King and Constitution are sworn to uphold religious toleration.  While what Papa has called a Lutheran Alliance is in military, political and religious terms dominated by Orthodox Russia.  Sweden might be Lutheran but a lot of Prussians including 200,000 French exile settlers are Calvinists.

5) Think the problem for the Commonwealth started when they got rid of Augustus the Strong Elector of Saxony as King on very questionable legal grounds and replaced him with a local Great Lord of Poland who is such a non entity that no one can remember his name and also commits the cardinal crime in Eastern European diplomacy of throwing the Czars letters on the fire without an answer.  Still say he is too lazy to actively follow Louis XIV and be horrible to non Catholics. (In Game terms player took over Great Lord position and decided he should be King not some Saxon Elector - but then realized that the Commonwealth is a nightmare position rather than the G1 super power and dropped shortly after with Czars letters left gathering dust for next player - which never happened).

- With Czar blowing smoke out of his ears about people who do not answer his letters this made it easy for the King in Prussia to tack his claim to West Prussia onto the coat tails of the Czar.  They then invited the King of Sweden because he does answer Russian letters and its really not polite to have a war in the Baltic/East Europe and not invite the King of Sweden.

6) Interestingly, both the King of Sweden and the Elector of Brandenburg are major princes of the Holy Roman Empire and the Emperor needs their support or at least friendly neutrality if he is to keep the French out of the Empire.  First fear was that if War started in Poland it would drag in Saxony and start a war between members of the Holy Roman Empire.

Then the Emperor became aware to his great surprise (I had forgot as well) that his Elector of Saxony had been probably illegally deposed as King of Poland but somehow his father had ignored this event (probably had a sick goat to attend too).  This was good in that Princes of the HRE who he needed could have an adventure and expand their lands without starting a war in the HRE which it was his duty to stop.

Only problem was that if Prussia took West Prussia would it then look to expand further like into Saxony for instance?  A restored Elector to the Throne of Poland.......probably not restored as Grand Duke of Lithuania would protect Saxony from further Prussian expansion in the HRE and act as a nice buffer between Austria and all of those nasty Cossacks, Tarters, Orthodox bishops etc, etc on the blood lands while dragging Poland itself further West into the civilized orbit of the HRE.  Bit like the Kingdom of Bohemia or Prussia itself.

Sadly when the possibility of a legal restoration of Augustus was raised it turned out that Augustus has abandoned being a Catholic and gone back to being a Lutherian which did not make him a very suitable King of Poland in the eyes of the Polish Catholic Church or the Pope......Damn !!

7) Interestingly the Pope then said the Elector of Bavaria would make a suitable King rather than saying the current King of Poland has the full backing of the Church.  This would seem to imply that the Church in Poland and the Pope think the removal of Augustus which the Polish diet can do on certain set grounds - was as dodgy as hell.  Or they think the current King is a total non entity unable to stand up to irrate Czars and rabid Swedes and Cossacks and the Commonwealth badly needs a new King who is able to pick up either a sword or a pen.

- If any player fancies asking Agema for the position of Elector of Bavaria/King of Poland the good news is that you are married to the Queen of Spain sister (who came with a very big dowry) before that you were married too the sister of both the Emperor and the King of Spain (another large Dowry) but she passed away in child birth.  Plus your brother is Bishop-Prince and Elector of Liege-Cologne and King James considers you to be a friend.
You are one of the most important secular Catholic rulers in HRE and clearly favoured by the Pope.

- The bad news is that Bavaria is pretty much in the front line of French aggression against the HRE its Savoy, Baden and then you!  As for Poland.......best of luck!!

I describe it as the Lutheran Alliance because in terms of number of countries, Prussia and Sweden are Lutheran.  In the absence of any in game correspondence I am in ignorance of Austria's reasons for attacking Poland if they are not simply to support Prussia.  Thus politically there is some justification for lumping the 3 of them together.  Russia seems to be attacking Ukraine for reasons the Tsar has explained (including religion), and this stage of it appears to be separately justified from the others.  Of course how many Kalmar troops are Russian is unknown, but geographically the Prussian/Kalmar territorial objectives do seem to be closer than Russia's objectives in Ukraine.  Sweden has not stated she is attacking in support of Russia and it would be rather strange if she was protecting Orthodox against Poland, not fellow Lutherans.  But no doubt these issues will be clarified over the next few turns.

Stuart's explanation of confusion over who is currently King of Poland and how this situation arose may be correct, I don't know.  But it is laughable to suggest that Austria is attacking Poland to gain better diplomatic relations with the powerful electors he needs to be friendly so they can help keep the French out of the Empire - France is to the west of Austria whereas Poland is to the North East.  Perhaps Emperor Joseph has lost his sense of direction after chasing a sick goat round in circles?

Stuart Bailey wrote:
8 ) How the Emperor deals with the crisis in Poland when his best plans are crashing and burning due to idiot Electors abandoning the true faith and the French are about to invade the Empire would seem to be "interesting times".  Think the whole of G7 is looking at Vienna and wondering how are you going to deal with this?  Story of playing Austria really......getting pulled in various different ways at same time.  Its tough being HRE.

At least this is something we can agree on - it is so tough for Austria that he should resign as emperor.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
9) Spain and no one with any sense in 1716 including the Pope still believes in the strange C13 doctrine of Papal lawyers that the Pope is superior to a King and can depose him.  A doctrine well and truely smashed by the henchmen of the King of France and the odd Spanish Army sacking Rome.  All the Pope and the Spain really said was that if the Polish Diet were to ever decide it needs a new King than the Elector of Bavaria is a jolly fine chap and his wife would make a great Queen of Poland.

As the Electoress of Bavaria is his sister in law the King of Spain was hardly going to say anything different!  Could lead to sulks and hurt silences at dinner.

No church document has ever been overturned by force of arms.  Unam Sanctam was never repealed by any subsequent Pope.

The precise quotation from this month's newspaper is "we are happy to endorse Prince Maximillian Emmanuel and Maria Valdez, Electress of Bavaria, Comtessa di Salerno, who is His Most Catholic Majesty’s sister-in-law, as the future king and queen of Poland.”   No qualification making this conditional on the Polish Diet was referred to.  In June's newspaper all the Pope said was that he could not endorse Frederick Augustus and suggested Prince Max as a candidate.  In May, "Emperor Joseph then asked who would make an appropriate replacement for the current king of Poland?  'I currently favour Augustus Elector of Saxony. Will Your Holiness support my favourite if the current Polish king is deposed?'”  So there was no talk of a fresh election and the approval of Polish nobles, merely of the removal of the current King.  Emperor Joseph asked the Pope to approve of the removal of the current Polish king, and his power to do that comes from Unam Sanctam.  There is no point in Austria asking the Pope to approve of something which would otherwise be illegal unless the Pope (rather than Austria) had the power to make it legal.  Austria does not have the power to call an election in Poland, neither does the Pope.  So any discussion of who can succeed as King is academic unless it is first accepted that the Pope has the power under Unam Sanctam to remove secular Catholic rulers.  As I pointed out earlier, even under Unam Sanctam there has to be specific grounds for the Pope to exercise that power otherwise you have serious difficulties for all Catholic rulers.  So far King Stanislaus has done nothing to justify that removal in the eyes of the Catholic church, whereas Emperor Joseph has.  That is the dilemma.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
10) Doubt if the Swedes are going to lay formal siege to Mittau since they only brought field guns and no siege guns.  Suspect like at Riga in the great Northern War when they just went over the defences and a 30+ Battalion strong Russian Garrison without breaking stride they will just storm the place.
Just hope they do not hurt the Duchess or her son or does the Elector of Brandenberg no longer care about his sister and nephew?   Danzig however will probably need a formal siege and a naval blockade too capture.

- Question here is how much will the maritime powers of France, England, UDP and Spain moan about the disturbance of trade?  France and Spain probably not at all as they seem set on all out war over Savoy.

12) According to King James in G7 the French Army is the largest and the best in the game.  Guess we are about to find out if this is true.

Siege artillery is not always necessary - it depends whether Mittau has old walls or modern fortifications.  It is a reasonable assumption that Kalmar forces have artillery upgraded by Russia and Russian artillery is good.  Either way, it is a rather large force to send if King Charles isn't going to do something with it.

According to the newspaper, the top traders in the Baltic region are:
1. RUSSIA
2. SPAIN
3. FRANCE
4. SWEDEN
5. ENGLAND
6. PRUSSIA-BRANDENBURG
7. UNITED PROVINCES
8. COURLAND
9. POLAND
10. HON. WEST INDIA COMPANY

I don't know why Courland is listed separately, and we can't tell from this how much is trade with Poland rather than Russia/Sweden.  I suspect the vast majority of trade from the top 4 is with Russia/Sweden.  England has trading interests with Russia, Prussia and Poland, and to a lesser extent with Sweden, so as a proportion of Baltic trade, English trade is likely to be hit hardest and since English merchants have already complained about this, I suspect you will be hearing more than enough from disgruntled English merchants.

Congratulations to both Stuart and Papa. Fantastic long detailed write ups of events in g7.

jamesbond007 wrote:Congratulations to both Stuart and Papa. Fantastic long detailed write ups of events in g7.

For political players think what is making G7 interesting at the moment is the exploration of the partition of Poland.  Not sure if a game of Glori has ever gone into this part of history before and its about 70/80 years early for the historic events.  But case can be made for saying it was sort off on the Czar to do list for most of the C18.  And he is just doing things in a slightly different order ie Poland before putting his bath towel and summer dacha down on the Black Sea.

Think many players and even the GM are somewhat scrabbling round in the dark over the partition of Poland and how their characters and various NPC's will react.  From a personal point of view not at all sure about a Orthodox Russian Army getting ready to besiege the mostly Orthodox Army of Lithuania in a city (Minsk) with a Orthodox Archbishop in order to "protect" the Orthodox.........who from?  What is wrong with take 7 or 8 - Trying to enforce the claims of Ivan the Terrible and about every other Czar to being the CZAR OF ALL THE RUSS (including the white Russ in Minsk).  While its not clear who the King of Sweden is trying to protect Protestant Courland and its none existing Orthodox population from.

From a style point of view much prefer - King of Prussia tries to enforce his claim to West Prussia take 3.  Think this is a lot more honest and realistic even though having played Poland and tried to get the good burghers of Danzig to pay some tax (any tax!) I very much doubt the Electors claim that his rule will result in lower taxes for all of those oppressed German Protestant, Jewish and Scots tax payers in Danzig.    

For players with a Naval interests G7 is seeing various conflicting theories about light units and quality v numbers being put into practice which is interesting.  Max numbers of small cutters and the like to do max damage to trade would seem to have some evidence to support it as a valid theory but such ultra light units have also suffered greatly.  What looks interesting is Persian theory of having lots of cutters etc but used with and protected by Escort Frigate mother ships.  In many ways such conflict is a lot more interesting than long lines of line ships just knocking the hell out of each other and only really suffering a major disaster when a badly defended port in which fleet was repairing gets stormed by land forces.

On land nothing much of interest happening but some players have expressed interest in and got their popcorn ready for France v the Hapsburgs or at least the Spanish Army if the Emperor too busy with Poland.  Unlike many Glori conflicts no side would seem to have a major advantage in numbers or quality as both sides seem to be in very good condition having had a lot of time and money spent on them in the 16 game years of G7.  

The French do have advantage of interior lines and can in theory mass superior forces on one or several fronts but trying to get balance right and also dislodge Hapsburg defenders from behind their screens of light infantry and fortresses is going to take skill as well as blunt force.  Plus one small mistake and they are going to find the products of the Imperial Spanish riding schools all over them like a rash.  Russian and English reporters are believed to be already in France, Spain, Italy, Flanders and Germany their note books and perhaps even oils and canvas at the ready.

August 1716's newspaper has arrived and for the benefit of non players, here is a short summary:


1. There have been no reported Russian shipping losses, although 2 English, 18 Spanish and 38 French merchant ships are missing, which means this month's winner of the Tsar's Our Ships Sank trophy is ... France.   3 French sloops were also captured in one of several engagements between Spanish and French ships in various seas around the world.


2. The Duke of Savoy has requested that Spain declares war on France in satisfaction of clause 4 of the Treaty of Turin 1715.  Given the number of ship engagements between France and Spain, it could be considered that a state of war already exists.  Representatives of the Spanish interest in the Imperial Diet did not need to wait for any encouragement to table motions to muster the Reichsarmee and to ban French trade, although thanks to the intervention of the Archchancellor, any votes will be delayed until November, possibly in the hope that by then Savoy will have been occupied by France and it saves anyone the bother of fighting.  Austria's contribution to the debate was to unveil a statue of the Graf von Sinzendorf in Vienna with the rather curious plaque 'In commemoration of a remarkable politician and diplomat'.  Regular readers will recall that the Graf led a life of remarkable obscurity until he was blown up in Rome - indeed it is possible that nobody could recall any of his major achievements other than his enormous appetite for eating cake - that greed leading to his death.  To put up a statue to gluttony could be symbolic of Austria's attempt to annex parts of Poland, so perhaps that was the intention?

In Madrid various Spanish characters (including the rather ludicrously titled Acting Deputy Doge of Genoa - how is it possible to be an Acting Deputy to a leader of a country that no longer exists?) have rallied behind King Charles under the banner of St.James and the sword of El Cid.  I would really like to be kind to Spain over this, since I am sympathetic with the plight of Savoy, but the assertion: "Just because a Prince of the Holy Roman Empire arranges a good marriage for his eldest son with the daughter of the current Emperor, King Charles' niece, this is not grounds for the French to declare war on the Duke of Savoy!" cannot go unchallenged.  A good marriage?  Let us get the history right on this one - the Emperor (who thinks so little of Savoy that he has not said one word in her defence) struggled to get a bridegroom for his Hapsburg daughter (currently aged 32 with deformed Hapsburg chin); of the 2 gentlemen who were compelled for political reasons to put themselves forward, poor Prince Victor was only deemed superior if he submitted to training in an Austrian military academy and followed by another 6 months being moulded by Austrian tutors (who will no doubt educate him with maps that do not show Savoy as an independent principality so that it will not take long for him to forget that Savoy even exists).  The only interest the Emperor has in Prince Victor is that he hopes to annex Savoy himself through this sham marriage.  That Prince Victor appears to have agreed to this farce under pressure (Savoy being under military occupation by Spain), probably confirms that he is a halfwit and thus by such low standards the Hapsburgs demand it may appear to them that he has made a good marriage.  The rest of the world may think otherwise.

While politicians argue, France has wasted no time invading Savoy, taking Aosta without resistance, and Nice after a long march.  The Austrian response?  To ask to hire 4 ladle dredges for the Danube-Rhine Project!


3. Meanwhile in Poland things have not quite gone to plan for the Grand Alliance.  An English fleet of 60 liners arrived in Danzig conveying Chevalier Andrew Michael Ramsey, a rather dashing Scottish gentleman who has a scholarly interest in the Teutonic Order.  He was warmly received by the Castellan of Danzig, Valentin von Winter.  The more astute readers of this write-up may consider that 60 liners (or since 1 game liner = 10 real world liners, 600 ships) is rather a lot to deliver a single passenger to the edge of a warzone.  They may even think that the liners were carrying a substantial cargo, but naturally it would not be within the spirit of the forum for me to disclose what has not been published in the newspaper.

Prussia's Konigsberg Army of 6F, 17H and 5FA has finally made it to Warsaw.

At Minsk, Russia's 1st Cavalry army of 96 squadrons of Cossacks attempted to blockade Minsk, but was driven off by a Lithuanian force of 44F, 6 Lancer squadrons and 18 light cavalry squadrons.  The Lithuanian commander has taken offence to the suggestion that there has been persecution of Orthodox Christians in Lithuania.  The same sentiment was seen in Lviv where Hetman Mazeppa not only threw Russian gold away, but began raiding Prussian, Austrian, Danish, Swedish and Russian caravans, thus proving that if the Russians wanted some dead Orthodox then they would oblige.

In Mittau the Kalmar Union forces have been told by their commanding general that it is going to be very tough to take the town despite extra artillery being unloaded in Riga.  As I mentioned in last month's write-up, the geography makes this a really difficult siege; add in the weather and an assault will be very costly and likely fail.  Perhaps acknowledging this, King Charles of the Kalmar Union has proposed terms, although he also cited the 'religious persecution' claims which are unlikely to gain him much credibility.  I am sure that the Duke of Courland is relieved that King Charles does not wish to damage the property he hopes to annex, but the terms are almost laughable in their impudence.  The 11th Russian Army of the Volga (of unknown size) advanced on the Courland town of Polotsk only to find the gates slammed in their face by the defenders.

Austria has fared little better in the south of Poland, taking undefended Krakov and promising "no more harm will befall them other than what is necessary" - the Poles will no doubt retort that Austria has no business to be in Polish territory and the best way to avoid harm is for them to go back to Austria.  The gates of Tarnov were shut to prevent Austrian dragoons from taking that town as well.  Clearly whether there has been a formal declaration of war or not, Austria has de facto invaded Poland.

With a general absence of diplomatic justification from most of the Grand Alliance, it has been left to the Tsar to attempt to make the case for war (or as he puts it 'reasons for honourable nations to abandon Poland').  It ends by quoting the Polish saying: "Hunt Russians as a duty and Prussians as a sport!"  This is the most well argued line in the whole statement.  It would seem from the initial responses from Lithuania and Poland that by basing the invasion on the assertion of the persecution of the Orthodox religious minority, the Grand Alliance is simply insulting the Polish nobility and putting them in an impossible position.  If they accept the charge then they are behaving dishonourably; so they must refute it and band together to repel an unwanted invasion of their lands.  The invasion so far looks to have united the Poles against their common enemy.


4. Away from the chaos and fighting, the Grand Pensionary of Zeeland has lost rather a lot of money playing cards with Quinten van Dort, and has demanded the opportunity to lose even more next month.  I don't know who van Dort is, but he is likely to attract the attentions of Jacobite Naval Intelligence.  He may be an exceptionally fine card player who could be recruited, or a cheat in which case he should return his ill-gotten gains before someone steals them from him.


5. King James has visited Powis Castle at the invitation of the Lord Privy Seal and was gratified to learn that the castle remains in the hands of the House of Herbert, the Duke being one of those loyal Catholic Jacobites who followed his father into exile and stood by him despite the personal sacrifices he suffered.  Meanwhile in England, an attempt to encourage nobles to offer prizes for their tenants to use new agricultural methods to boost harvests has been welcomed in theory, but not in practice.


6. Demonstrating outstanding judgement, the King of Portugal has fallen for the Countess of Teviot and has fixed the date to marry her.  Well what Countess would not wish to marry one of the most capable monarchs of the age?  This would seem to confirm that the bogus charges Austria brought against her were without foundation, just as England has always claimed.  Clearly the King of Portugal is a man of great wisdom, who has wasted no time in publicly reminding King James that he expects a big dowry on behalf of the House of Douglas.  As Spain has repeatedly pointed out, getting money out of King James is a very tough task, and will prove almost impossible without answering game letters, but thankfully there are a few months to settle the detail.


7. Just in case anyone is thinking of invading the Kalmar Union there is a new map of the north of Norway, Sweden and Finland.


So although France has not had the best of months at sea, she is certainly off to a good start in her invasion of Savoy.  The same cannot be said of the Grand Alliance trying to break up Poland.  Perhaps we will see an outbreak of common sense next month, but somehow I doubt it.

In view of the slanders against Hapsburg marriage policy can I just point out:-

I) The 32 year old sister of Josef and Charles von Hapsburg in G7 married the Elector of Bavaria and sadly passed away in child birth. The sister was the Electors second or perhaps third wife and he is now re-married to the sister of the Queen of Spain. It seems that the Elector likes to collect Dowries and if anyone joining G7 likes a keen social-political life on advantage of this position is the Electors huge number of kids from various marriages who he can try to arrange suitable matches for.

- Pity Bavaria is also the bit of the Empire which in way of any direct attack by French towards Vienna. Though currently they seem to by aiming more at the Southern route via Northern Italy.

II) The Crown Prince of Savoy is actually engaged to the eldest daughter of the Emperor Josef who is a teenager and the heiress to Austria (Josef only having girls). As such the couple and their children (The House of Hapsburg-Savoy) will eventually inherit both Austria and Savoy.

- While it is up to the Imperial Electors the Husband of the Archdushess of Austria, Queen of Hungary, Bohemia and Croatia etc who is the neice of the King of Spain probably stands a very good chance of being elected Holy Roman Emperor as well (a female can not hold the Imperial title so situation would be same as when the Empress Maria Therisa husband Charles of Lorraine was elected Emperor).

III) The Doge of Genoa is held captive by the French and the City of Genoa is under French military occupation but the Republic still exists !! With its government lead by an acting Doge untill the real Doge is set free and the Fleet of Genoa in exile while Sardinia is de juria still part of the Republic of St George leased to Spain untill Louis XIV sets free both Genoa and its Doge.

III) In attacking Savoy France has from a Spanish point of view attacked a) The husband to be of the King of Spain niece b) A fellow Prince of the Holy Roman Empire and c) A country with which Spain has a binding mutual defence treaty with. This war is not going to end untill every Frenchman is out of Savoy & Genoa even if in the meanwhile the French over-run the whole of Savoy, Milan, Genoa, Venice and end up on the southern borders of Austria !!

- If other Princes of the Empire or even the Emperor are cowed by the military might and aggression of Louis XIV (French player is one of the most military minded and best commanders in the whole of Agema let alone G7) and decide to take a different path I do not blame them. But Spain has had enough of French lies and bullying and is now fighting for its word of honour. Which in my opinion is a lot clearer position that that of the French reason for invasion and for the events in Poland.

- Ref the Spanish troops in Savoy - after the invasion of Genoa. Spain was concerned to reinforce its forces in the Duchy of Milan as in yesterday so it borrowed troops from the Duke of Savoy in return for sending the Duke a lot money and some Spanish troops to make up reduction in Army of Savoy.
Spanish regiments in Savoy are part of the Savoyard service likewise Savoyard Troops in Milan etc are in Spanish service. This is perfectly normal and honourable for the C18.

IV) Kind of oddly from viewpoint of Madrid the French have finally made their move against the Empire and close ally of the House of Hapsburg. Trying to break what they probably view as the encirclement of France, cut the "Spanish Road" and open up a southern front against Austria which avoids the defiles of the Black forest and the killing zones of Northern Spain and Flanders. Starting a major war between two of the largest and most developed military forces in Glori..............only for what seems like the whole of G7 to basically go "Not another Bourbon v Hapsburg clash......boring" and take over most of the paper with events in the Polish-Lithunian Commonwealth.

- This diversion of G7 focus from Western Europe to the large soggy bit between Berlin, Vienna and Moscow is probably down to the charm and diplomacy of the Czar even though the Russians now seem to be going on about events 200 years ago in the time of troubles and are now not sure if the Orthodox were being bullied by the Orthodox Polish Cossacks or not.

- Seems to me that Polish Cossacks are now plundering Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant traders without fear or favour so guess Poles sort of picking on fellow Orthodox believers. But probably not before the Russians invaded.

- Thank good the x3 Daughters and x1 Son of Charles von Hapsburg are not older as "Advisors" actually proposed a whole long list of Poles as suitable matches !!

V) Other reason people may have decided on option for dashing cavalry fights and raids in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth rather than the slog of Franco-Spanish sieges is that they just do not seem equiped for it. Show up outside a modern French fortress with Field Artillery only and the only damage to the defenders is likely to be caused by laughing too much and swallowing their pipe.

- Do people have something against Siege Guns? Engineers? My beloved 16" Mortars?

- Probably not suitable for defending Polish forces and sending grain to Poland is a bit likes coals to Newcastle. So my guess about what was on the 60 English transports which sailed into Danzig would be cash, artillery esp fortress guns and gunpowder, tobacco & spirits to help keep up morale and a bunch of crazed Scots visiting the in-laws in Danzig. But what baffles me is why not escort? Could be total bluff or English showing total distain for the Royal Prussian yacht Squadron and the Russian Navy.

Note if Russian Navy was surposed to be mounting a blockade of Polish-Lithuanian ports they seem lost again with reported sightings in Africa. Either lost or oh boy are they keeping out of the way and avoiding danger of getting iced into port.

Stuart Bailey wrote:In view of the slanders against Hapsburg marriage policy can I just point out:-

I) The 32 year old sister of Josef and Charles von Hapsburg in G7 married the Elector of Bavaria and sadly passed away in child birth.  The sister was the Electors second or perhaps third wife and he is now re-married to the sister of the Queen of Spain.  It seems that the Elector likes to collect Dowries and if anyone joining G7 likes a keen social-political life on advantage of this position is the Electors huge number of kids from various marriages who he can try to arrange suitable matches for.

- Pity Bavaria is also the bit of the Empire which in way of any direct attack by French towards Vienna.  Though currently they seem to by aiming more at the Southern route via Northern Italy.

II) The Crown Prince of Savoy is actually engaged to the eldest daughter of the Emperor Josef who is a teenager and the heiress to Austria (Josef only having girls).  As such the couple and their children (The House of Hapsburg-Savoy) will eventually inherit both Austria and Savoy.

- While it is up to the Imperial Electors the Husband of the Archduchess of Austria, Queen of Hungary, Bohemia and Croatia etc who is the niece of the King of Spain probably stands a very good chance of being elected Holy Roman Emperor as well (a female can not hold the Imperial title so situation would be same as when the Empress Maria Therisa husband Charles of Lorraine was elected Emperor).  

My apologies for not being up to date with non-historic game events in relation to the Hapsburgs.  They do seem to breed like rats and are almost as hard to eradicate.

However, I stand by the fact that the position of Holy Roman Emperor does not automatically pass to the next Hapsburg as though it was a Hapsburg hereditary monarchy - it is not.  There are plenty of other possible candidates (including the Prince of Bavaria) who would make a much better Emperor than Emperor Josef or any children who may result from Maria Josepha's marriage to Prince Victor of Savoy.  If Savoy is annexed by France then I suspect Austria's plans to inherit Savoy will come to nothing unless Stuart is still asserting (as he is in the case of Genoa) that a country which no longer exists as an independent entity can be kept alive by a defeated claimant to its crown (see below)?

Stuart Bailey wrote:
III) The Doge of Genoa is held captive by the French and the City of Genoa is under French military occupation but the Republic still exists !!  With its government lead by an acting Doge until the real Doge is set free and the Fleet of Genoa in exile while Sardinia is de juria still part of the Republic of St George leased to Spain until Louis XIV sets free both Genoa and its Doge.

From my reading of previous newspapers, the Doge of Genoa agreed that following the scandal of stolen French money being laundered through Genoa, the Republic would lose its independence and become part of France.  Now it may be that as an individual, the Doge was allowed to keep his elected title for the rest of his life, or that (it being an elected title) it automatically lapsed with the abolition of the institutions of the Republic (which is more likely).  I do not know what the position of Sardinia is, although it should be pointed out that Sardinia frequently rebelled against Genoese rule throughout the 1700s.  Was Sardinia leased to Spain after the French invasion or before?  If after then it is of doubtful legality and amounts to Spain placing Sardinia under her protection.  A great idea for Spain, I'm sure, but as long as France is in possession of Genoa, it would appear that those territories controlled by Genoa have simply been divided between France and Spain.  Just because Spain doesn't like what has happened (and is keeping the Genoese flag alive by sponsoring what is now a pirate fleet), doesn't mean that Spain is somehow keeping Genoa (the country) alive by setting up an 'acting deputy Doge'.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
III) In attacking Savoy France has from a Spanish point of view attacked
a) The husband to be of the King of Spain niece
b) A fellow Prince of the Holy Roman Empire and
c) A country with which Spain has a binding mutual defence treaty with.  
This war is not going to end until every Frenchman is out of Savoy & Genoa even if in the meanwhile the French over-run the whole of Savoy, Milan, Genoa, Venice and end up on the southern borders of Austria !!

That is of course entirely up to Spain, but it does beg the obvious question: why did Spain not declare war against France in defence of Genoa?  The answer should be obvious: because Spain was quite happy to grab Sardinia for herself.  There should be no objective difference between France declaring war on Genoa and France declaring war on Savoy in terms of Spain's response.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
- If other Princes of the Empire or even the Emperor are cowed by the military might and aggression of Louis XIV (French player is one of the most military minded and best commanders in the whole of Agema let alone G7) and decide to take a different path I do not blame them.  But Spain has had enough of French lies and bullying and is now fighting for its word of honour.  Which in my opinion is a lot clearer position that that of the French reason for invasion and for the events in Poland.  

- Ref the Spanish troops in Savoy - after the invasion of Genoa.  Spain was concerned to reinforce its forces in the Duchy of Milan as in yesterday so it borrowed troops from the Duke of Savoy in return for sending the Duke a lot money and some Spanish troops to make up reduction in Army of Savoy.
Spanish regiments in Savoy are part of the Savoyard service likewise Savoyard Troops in Milan etc are in Spanish service.  This is perfectly normal and honourable for the C18.

But terribly convenient ... for Spain.  I am not saying that I have any inside knowledge of how France views Spain's meddling in Savoy - I don't.  But if you hire troops from Savoy and replace those troops with your own, then you have both removed Savoy's ability to defend her own towns with her own troops, and are likely to have an outsized influence over Savoy's political choices.  If not then why do it?  Thus as an impartial outside observer I can rightly conclude that Spain's actions to some extent would be seen as provocation by France.  It changes Savoy from being a neutral buffer state between Spanish Milan and France, to being a state under Spanish military occupation, effectively shifting the border from Milan to France.  Add in the marriage to Hapsburg Austria and it is unrealistic to argue that Savoy has become anything other than a Hapsburg satellite containing an unknown number of Spanish troops on the French border ready to move into France whenever they were needed.

Stuart may be incredibly naive not to have seen this, but to the rest of the world it was fairly obvious what was going on.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
IV) Kind of oddly from viewpoint of Madrid the French have finally made their move against the Empire and close ally of the House of Hapsburg.  Trying to break what they probably view as the encirclement of France, cut the "Spanish Road" and open up a southern front against Austria which avoids the defiles of the Black forest and the killing zones of Northern Spain and Flanders.  Starting a major war between two of the largest and most developed military forces in Glori..............only for what seems like the whole of G7 to basically go "Not another Bourbon v Hapsburg clash......boring" and take over most of the paper with events in the Polish-Lithunian Commonwealth.

- This diversion of G7 focus from Western Europe to the large soggy bit between Berlin, Vienna and Moscow is probably down to the charm and diplomacy of the Czar even though the Russians now seem to be going on about events 200 years ago in the time of troubles and are now not sure if the Orthodox were being bullied by the Orthodox Polish Cossacks or not.  

- Seems to me that Polish Cossacks are now plundering Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant traders without fear or favour so guess Poles sort of picking on fellow Orthodox believers.  But probably not before the Russians invaded.

- Thank good the x3 Daughters and x1 Son of Charles von Hapsburg are not older as "Advisors" actually proposed a whole long list of Poles as suitable matches !!

V) Other reason people may have decided on option for dashing cavalry fights and raids in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth rather than the slog of Franco-Spanish sieges is that they just do not seem equipped for it.  Show up outside a modern French fortress with Field Artillery only and the only damage to the defenders is likely to be caused by laughing too much and swallowing their pipe.

- Do people have something against Siege Guns? Engineers? My beloved 16" Mortars?

- Probably not suitable for defending Polish forces and sending grain to Poland is a bit likes coals to Newcastle.  So my guess about what was on the 60 English transports which sailed into Danzig would be cash, artillery esp fortress guns and gunpowder, tobacco & spirits to help keep up morale and a bunch of crazed Scots visiting the in-laws in Danzig.  But what baffles me is why not escort?  Could be total bluff or English showing total disdain for the Royal Prussian yacht Squadron and the Russian Navy.

Note if Russian Navy was supposed to be mounting a blockade of Polish-Lithuanian ports they seem lost again with reported sightings in Africa.  Either lost or oh boy are they keeping out of the way and avoiding danger of getting iced into port.

With these comments about the situation in Poland I am generally in agreement, although of course will not be drawn on the purpose of the English transports in Danzig.  For once it is nice for England to be spectator and watch the chaos unfolding.

Can I just say:-

I) The three children of the Emperor Leopold and Josef's two daughters were historic 1700 starting position characters. Charles von Hapsburg gained a wife and four children in game in an effort to solve future Spanish succession problems (son on 4th attempt). But its hardly "Breeding like rats" for the period. Plenty of people of all levels of society in this period had ten or more and four or less would probably be considered a small family.

- Not sure how much truth their is in the story but Augustus the Strong Elector of Saxony and King of Poland is claimed to have over 300 children (most not legitimate).

- The fact that the Hapsburg's now have to find x6 suitable marriages in game for Children who are now getting to a suitable age is enough to be getting on and the major concern of Hapsburg policy along with holding the line against the Frogs.... in line with the classic "Let others make War, you fortunate Austria marry." And we were pretty happy with the first one, and really upset about the French spoiling effort since who the hell will want to marry the other five if they get attacked by the bloody French !!

- Ok they could marry a Spanish or Austrian of Noble and Catholic blood, but that is not really playing the game as understood by Vienna and Madrid.

II) Yes its true that the Electors of the Holy Roman Empire do not have to Elect a Hapsburg and in other games of Glori we have had the King of Prussia and the Elector of Pfalz elected Emperor. However, the man with the votes and backing of the Royal House of Austria is probably favourite to win. In last election after the Emperor Leopold passed away he was the only one standing, probably because trying to stop the French cutting bits off the Empire is not a job everyone fancies.

III) Saying a legitimate claim to a throne, title etc ends on defeat and exile seems a funny view for a Jacobite to hold?

IV) Spain would probably have declared war against France over Genoa if not for the fact that it had signed a non aggression treaty with France. That treaty has now expired and apart from the family and Holy Roman Empire links with Savoy. Spain also has a mutual defence treaty with Savoy.

- The fact that Spain signed this treaty which gives the Duke of Savoy £1m a year and £3m in war-time plus a lot of other benefits in the expectation that it was basically buying the support of the Army of Savoy to defend a French attack on Milan and things worked out differently is not really material to the fact that Spain now fights or is viewed as a cowardly oath breaker (bang goes foreign and marriage policy).

V) Has to be said that the campaigns of the French Military against Genoa and now Savoy make a lot of sence on a military map and shifts the battle away from the prepared ground of Hapsburg defences. But I think most reasonable people would agree that burning down famous Catholic Churches and artworks in Genoa while killing thousands then attacking an Italian Ducal Family with various links to France (Its provided more than one Queen of France in the past) and even the House of Stuart just because the current Duke wants to wed his son to the greatest heiress in Europe totally gives up the moral high ground and is going to go down like a ton of bricks in the Germans and Italian territories who may be next.

The Princes of the Holy Roman Empire not directly attacked probably will not fight the feared French indeed many of the most active ones seem to have found something else to do in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth but the double headed Eagle battle Flag of the House of Hapsburg is now flying high and the recruiting stations of the German and Italian tercio's are beating the drum.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Can I just say:-

I) The three children of the Emperor Leopold and Josef's two daughters were historic 1700 starting position characters.  Charles von Hapsburg gained a wife and four children in game in an effort to solve future Spanish succession problems (son on 4th attempt).  But its hardly "Breeding like rats" for the period.  Plenty of people of all levels of society in this period had ten or more and four or less would probably be considered a small family.

- Not sure how much truth their is in the story but Augustus the Strong Elector of Saxony and King of Poland is claimed to have over 300 children (most not legitimate).

- The fact that the Hapsburg's now have to find x6 suitable marriages in game for Children who are now getting to a suitable age is enough to be getting on and the major concern of Hapsburg policy along with holding the line against the Frogs.... in line with the classic "Let others make War, you fortunate Austria marry."  And we were pretty happy with the first one, and really upset about the French spoiling effort since who the hell will want to marry the other five if they get attacked by the bloody French !!

- Ok they could marry a Spanish or Austrian of Noble and Catholic blood, but that is not really playing the game as understood by Vienna and Madrid.

Given the Hapsburgs claimed to be related to nearly every major and minor royal house in Europe there is no wonder they struggle to find marriage partners of equivalent rank.  The Hapsburg marriage policy led to insanity and deformity so perhaps there is something for marrying an eligible Catholic noble from outside the usual pool instead of continually seeking to use marriage simply to further political ends?

Stuart Bailey wrote:
II) Yes its true that the Electors of the Holy Roman Empire do not have to Elect a Hapsburg and in other games of Glori we have had the King of Prussia and the Elector of Pfalz elected Emperor.  However, the man with the votes and backing of the Royal House of Austria is probably favourite to win.  In last election after the Emperor Leopold passed away he was the only one standing, probably because trying to stop the French cutting bits off the Empire is not a job everyone fancies.

Or because he knew he could rely on Spain to do his fighting for him?  This is not a criticism, merely an observation - in G7 Emperor Leopold was once top of the honour table after launching into an ill-planned war against France which Spain won for him, he then tried to repeat the exercise with even stronger allies but failed, trashing the reputation of the Austrian Hapsburgs by a series of catastrophic defeats that destroyed his forces.  Understandably he quit and along came Emperor Joseph who it was hoped would be an improvement, focusing on developing the Austrian economy and staying out of wars.  Unfortunately his goat fixation and attempt to give Spain diplomatic support in exchange for the many millions of pounds Spain gave him to rebuild his army, schools, infrastructure etc, led him towards an increasingly hostile anti-English and anti-French stance.  And now he has invaded Poland at the head of a coalition of more capable players who should really know better.  France could hardly have been given a better opportunity to start another war.  If any Austrians escape Poland then they are likely to be cut down by French cavalry thus another generation of Austrians (and possibly many Germans in the Reichsarmee) will be wiped out and what is left of the Holy Roman Empire be asked to elect a new Emperor.  Will the Electors go begging to Spain for a few million to bribe them to vote for a Hapsburg?  Will they just shrug their shoulders and ask 3rd time lucky?  Or will one of them decide that enough is enough and have the courage to stand on a non-Hapsburg ticket?

Stuart Bailey wrote:
III) Saying a legitimate claim to a throne, title etc ends on defeat and exile seems a funny view for a Jacobite to hold?

That is not what I wrote at all!

Genoa does not exist as an independent country because its last ruler consented to that country becoming part of France.  Should France wish to make Genoa independent again then he may decide to set up a new head of government with the title of Doge, but that is France's choice.

The same would apply if France decided to elect a peasant to be ruler of Catalonia and then fund what he calls a 'rebel' army to free Catalonia from Spanish rule.  It would not make that ruler the king of Catalonia because Catalonia is not an independent country any more, it is part of Spain.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
IV) Spain would probably have declared war against France over Genoa if not for the fact that it had signed a non aggression treaty with France.  That treaty has now expired and apart from the family and Holy Roman Empire links with Savoy.  Spain also has a mutual defence treaty with Savoy.

- The fact that Spain signed this treaty which gives the Duke of Savoy £1m a year and £3m in war-time plus a lot of other benefits in the expectation that it was basically buying the support of the Army of Savoy to defend a French attack on Milan and things worked out differently is not really material to the fact that Spain now fights or is viewed as a cowardly oath breaker (bang goes foreign and marriage policy).

If memory serves Spain issued various threats against France, demanding she withdrew from Genoa.  Are we now to believe that this was all a bluff because Spain would not wish to break a non-aggression treaty?  Presumably the non-aggression treaty did not include occupying Sardinia and taking control of former Genoese ships, setting up and sponsoring a Spanish-controlled character as 'acting doge' to a country that no longer exists in preparation to fight a proxy war against France through this new faction?  That may be the Spanish definition of non-aggression, but it isn't necessarily one that most players would accept.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
V) Has to be said that the campaigns of the French Military against Genoa and now Savoy make a lot of sense on a military map and shifts the battle away from the prepared ground of Hapsburg defences.  But I think most reasonable people would agree that burning down famous Catholic Churches and artworks in Genoa while killing thousands then attacking an Italian Ducal Family with various links to France (Its provided more than one Queen of France in the past) and even the House of Stuart just because the current Duke wants to wed his son to the greatest heiress in Europe totally gives up the moral high ground and is going to go down like a ton of bricks in the Germans and Italian territories who may be next.

The Princes of the Holy Roman Empire not directly attacked probably will not fight the feared French indeed many of the most active ones seem to have found something else to do in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth but the double headed Eagle battle Flag of the House of Hapsburg is now flying high and the recruiting stations of the German and Italian tercio's are beating the drum.

I suppose we will see as the game progresses whether this is a similar bluff or Spain will fight France to the last German, if indeed there are any left that Austria hasn't enlisted to fight Poland with?

Ref what Papa Clement wrote above

I) Think most Royal and Noble Houses in Europe were related to each other in some way and often a bit inbreed. Louis XIV for instance had a Hapsburg mother and a Hapsburg wife while his nephew married one of his daughters.

II) After problems like Carlos II the Hapsburgs moved away from marrying other Hapsburgs and started to marry noble Germans and Italians. Such as Charles of Lorraine who became Emperor mostly due to the support of his wife. Marrying the in game heiress of Austria to the Crown Prince of Savoy is outside the usual pool and ticked lots of other boxes as well including honouring the family of Prince Eugine of Savoy. It was actually nearly the perfect match for all sides...........THEN THE BLOODY FRENCH INVADED.

III) The Emperor Josef is still young and we all hope he reigns for many, many more years. But if the Electors do not fancy the husband of the Queen of Bohemia by any chance and/or the Empire is in crisis. Their is of course another Prince of the Holy Roman Empire, well respected, Catholic etc, etc who would no doubt make a first rate Emperor............namely the younger brother of the Emperor, brother in law of the Elector of Bavaria and all round spifffing chap........CHARLES VON HAPSBURG .

IV) France which seems to have taken a vow of in game silence to improve military security seems to be saying that the Republic of Saint George and the Duchy of Savoy have been captured or are shortly to be captured and form part of France like the various other Hapsburg and Imperial lands Louis XIV has taken over in his long reign. Spain and Savoy plus others like the Emperor do not agree and are willing to fight French land grabs.

They may win they may not, but at least its a nice clean war fought over nice clear issues over which both sides sort of agree. And it is 100% not a proxy war, basically for the first time in G7 Hapsburg Spain is fighting its own war without one hand tided behind its back by the Papacy for a cause it believes in. No one doubts the strength of the French or the miltary ability of its high command. But I like to think that the G7 Hapsburg forces (based on the Army of Prince Eugine but with additional light Infantry) will prove to be a worthy foe for the dastardly frogs.

V) Germans, Bohemians, Hungarians, Italians, Swiss, Spanish, Rumelians, Moldavians, Wallons, Irish even now peace has been made English and Scots the Hapsburg service is a equal opportunity employer which offers good terms and conditions inc a really nice coat and generous signing on fee plus large farm's in the America's for retired veterans and true Hero's may even get onto the Queen and Infanta of Spain dance card. Surely no Gentleman of valour and breeding can stand aside and not answer the call to fight the frog's for the right, truth, honour, justice and Pasta how mama used to make it (other food stuffs are on offer).

Not sure if any For God, King and Country players in G7 but this does seems to be perfect opportunity to win honour, glory, loot and probably lose a limb.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Ref what Papa Clement wrote above

I) Think most Royal and Noble Houses in Europe were related to each other in some way and often a bit inbreed.  Louis XIV for instance had a Hapsburg mother and a Hapsburg wife while his nephew married one of his daughters.

II) After problems like Carlos II the Hapsburgs moved away from marrying other Hapsburgs and started to marry noble Germans and Italians.  Such as Charles of Lorraine who became Emperor mostly due to the support of his wife.  Marrying the in game heiress of Austria to the Crown Prince of Savoy is outside the usual pool and ticked lots of other boxes as well including honouring the family of Prince Eugine of Savoy.  It was actually nearly the perfect match for all sides...........THEN THE BLOODY FRENCH INVADED.

III) The Emperor Josef is still young and we all hope he reigns for many, many more years.  But if the Electors do not fancy the husband of the Queen of Bohemia by any chance and/or the Empire is in crisis.  Their is of course another Prince of the Holy Roman Empire, well respected, Catholic etc, etc who would no doubt make a first rate Emperor............namely the younger brother of the Emperor, brother in law of the Elector of Bavaria and all round spifffing chap........CHARLES VON HAPSBURG .  

Prince Eugene was from a different branch of the House of Savoy (Savoy-Carignano) and you have to go back a few generations to find a common ancestor with the current Duke of Savoy.

At least we can agree that Charles von Hapsburg (the King of Spain) would make a much better Emperor than any other Hapsburg candidate.  Perhaps that is now the plan - a Spanish takeover of the Holy Roman Empire?  It would have the advantage of simplifying and unifying Hapsburg holdings, although it would be a bit of a nightmare to administer.  Note: this is not an endorsement of any Spanish takeover, just a recognition that despite our in-game differences (in many games), Stuart has always played the game, and played it with a certain level of historical realism, answering game letters and promoting the interests of his family.  In those respects if some other players followed his example, the game would be much more enjoyable for everyone.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
IV) France which seems to have taken a vow of in game silence to improve military security seems to be saying that the Republic of Saint George and the Duchy of Savoy have been captured or are shortly to be captured and form part of France like the various other Hapsburg and Imperial lands Louis XIV has taken over in his long reign.  Spain and Savoy plus others like the Emperor do not agree and are willing to fight French land grabs.

They may win they may not, but at least its a nice clean war fought over nice clear issues over which both sides sort of agree.  And it is 100% not a proxy war, basically for the first time in G7 Hapsburg Spain is fighting its own war without one hand tided behind its back by the Papacy for a cause it believes in.  No one doubts the strength of the French or the military ability of its high command.  But I like to think that the G7 Hapsburg forces  (based on the Army of Prince Eugine but with additional light Infantry) will prove to be a worthy foe for the dastardly frogs.

V)  Germans, Bohemians, Hungarians, Italians, Swiss, Spanish, Rumelians, Moldavians, Walloons, Irish even now peace has been made English and Scots the Hapsburg service is a equal opportunity employer which offers good terms and conditions inc a really nice coat and generous signing on fee plus large farm's in the America's for retired veterans and true Hero's may even get onto the Queen and Infanta of Spain dance card.  Surely no Gentleman of valour and breeding can stand aside and not answer the call to fight the frog's for the right, truth, honour, justice and Pasta how mama used to make it (other food stuffs are on offer).  

Not sure if any For God, King and Country players in G7 but this does seems to be perfect opportunity to win honour, glory, loot and probably lose a limb.

Sounds like this conflict could be very interesting for all players, a rare opportunity to see how various research advances and gameplay styles fare in a late-period LGDR.  Both sides have significant (financial, military and manpower) resources, well developed technologies and have been preparing for this for many years; they both know how to fight and seem willing to do so.  It will be an education to see whether the flexibility of Spanish forces can triumph over the more standardised French forces.  I suspect different terrains will reveal that each side has its strengths, so the fighting could be more inconsistent than either side expect.  Will we see some rapid advances or each front get stuck against lines of fortresses?  At the moment it is too close to call.

Papa Clement wrote:
Sounds like this conflict could be very interesting for all players, a rare opportunity to see how various research advances and gameplay styles fare in a late-period LGDR.  Both sides have significant (financial, military and manpower) resources, well developed technologies and have been preparing for this for many years; they both know how to fight and seem willing to do so.  It will be an education to see whether the flexibility of Spanish forces can triumph over the more standardised French forces.  I suspect different terrains will reveal that each side has its strengths, so the fighting could be more inconsistent than either side expect.  Will we see some rapid advances or each front get stuck against lines of fortresses?  At the moment it is too close to call.

Think it will be interesting to watch a Louis XIV Western style war (with added Naval and Colonial elements) run alongside the Eastern style wars in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

In fighting the Hapsburgs, Savoy and the Persians at the same time the French like the forces of the Commonwealth would seem to be outnumbered and fighting a multi-front war but by using their interior lines of communication and the scattered nature of their foes can mass superior forces to their foes on the front they wish to attack. Something the French have now done on the Italian front.

Assume that by attacking Savoy which is markedly weaker than Spain, Austria and Persia first the French High Command figure they can win a quick victory on this front. Attack into Italy also drives wedge between two branches of Hapsburgs and avoids problems with other front's ie:-

Persia - Its miles away and a logistic and communication nightmare.

Spain - After 16 years of rule by Charles von Hapsburg invaders of Spain are likely to find a Spanish Light Infantry man behind every rock and top notch fortresses to soak up the first attack and inflict sickness levels. Followed by a bloodbath - past experience has shown that the French do not really like massed Cavalry scraps and flashing rapiers if fine Toledo steel.

Flanders - Bit like rather lesser Spain but with added problem that attacking into Flanders spooks the Dutch and attacking Flanders fortresses generally means flooded trenches, wet feet and high sickness levels.

Rhineland - Since Frenche Comete was recently French and the Emperor is distracted by events in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. This was my top tip with Italy second for a French attack. Also expected the French to ignore Savoy and go directly for Milan from Genoa. Can only assume that French feel they can make progress in Savoy in what is left of campaign season. While a siege of Milan would never be completed before Winter.

Naval/Colonial - Lots of opportunity but French High Command just do not seem impressed with the idea of sailing for six months to then climb 11,000 feet into the Andes or march through a bog. If they wanted to do that type of thing they would probably have pushed the Persian War harder.

In tactical terms Engineering and Artillery seem much the same, French have slight advantage Infantry but their foes have better light forces both Lt Cavalry and Light Infantry. French and allied Cavalry roughly equal but used in different ways.

Very interesting comments from everyone.

I find that I am playing two games at the moment. The first as Austria who is not bound by any treaty to come to the defence of Savoy, or Genoa, Milan or Venice for that matter, yet as Joseph is bound by family ties and honour to help his brother yet is tweaking Louis' mustache the right plan?

The second game is as a character, an elected Emperor, who's uneviable task is to shape policy of the Holy Roman Empire, a disparate group of Dukedoms, some with NPC's others with players, some Catholic, others Protestant, some anti French/English, others supporters. It is easier to herd cats than reach agreement with everyone.

Yet it is clear the French have prodded the otherwise peaceful HRE so the Emperor will do the rounds of speaking tours and after dinner speeches. It is a pity, in game, there has not been condemnation about French action from other HRE players, so we shall soon see whether the HRE is all Jaw Jaw or War War.

Vauban wrote:Very interesting comments from everyone.

I find that I am playing two games at the moment. The first as Austria who is not bound by any treaty to come to the defence of Savoy, or Genoa, Milan or Venice for that matter, yet as Joseph is bound by family ties and honour to help his brother yet is tweaking Louis' mustache the right plan?

The second game is as a character, an elected Emperor, who's uneviable task is to shape policy of the Holy Roman Empire, a disparate group of Dukedoms, some with NPC's others with players, some Catholic, others Protestant, some anti French/English, others supporters. It is easier to herd cats than reach agreement with everyone.

Yet it is clear the French have prodded the otherwise peaceful HRE so the Emperor will do the rounds of speaking tours and after dinner speeches. It is a pity, in game, there has not been condemnation about French action from other HRE players, so we shall soon see whether the HRE is all Jaw Jaw or War War.

As they say "life is tough at the top of the greasy pole of the HRE"......understand that the experience of Jason and various others playing the Holy Roman Emperor is :-

1) Holding the title is great for your Honour Score but:

2) You end up in position of having a one way mutual defence treaty with every Elector, Duchy, Free City etc etc in the Holy Roman Empire and if you try and ignore this duty your honour score drops like a stone.  With honour loss also seeming to work in reverse so if its a strong Elector or Prince who picked a fight the loss could be very minor but ignore some Free City you struggle to find on the map and its horrible.

3) Your vassels are generally happy to allow you to upgrade Imperial highways, canals, even build magazines for the Reicharmee etc provided none of this ruins the view or cuts through one of their deer parks........random Agema dice to see if anyone objects?  Which will then cost you honour points.
Oh and of course you are going to be paying the full price if not more.

Do not believe even in your wildest dreams that the Princes, Electors and free cities are going to pay taxes or contribute to the Empire.  With possible exception of some odd player characters who in G7 are mostly represented by the Emperors younger brother and other odd relations its a 100% SET IN STONE RULE AGEMA NPC's PAY NOTHING

4) Once you have passed vote in Reich Stag which condemns the aggression even placed the Imperial Ban on internal aggressors then raised the Imperial Battle standard and had some heroic words and speeches printed in the press some Emperors fondly believe that the Imperial Princes and their
armies will flock to the Imperial Standard...............SOME EMPERORS ARE IDIOTS.  Some Popes suffer from the same sort of delusion.

With possible exception of player characters AGEMA NPC DO NOT VOLUNTEER and are not inspired by duty or speeches.  Speaking tours and after dinner speeches against the foe may help your honour score if conducted alongside action but the the only way the Princes are going to provide troops will be via one to one agreements and AFTER THEY ARE PAID.

Also no not expect good ones the Reicharmee was famous for being made up of sub standard units and raw recruits.  Most Imperial Commanders tended to view them as a pioneer corp, good for digging but not much else.

5) On the subject of Imperial Commanders think its going to be interesting to hear how the Imperial Reich Marshal (Elector of Brandenburg, King in Prussia) proposes to do his job and hit back at French Aggression against our beloved Holy Roman Empire.  Is the Prussian Royal Yacht Squadron about to sail again?

Having a seperate Player Character Imperial Reich Marshal does not so much split the blame around as cause the mud to stick to more players if things go wrong.  But if by some miracle they go right then yes the credit does get split up.

6) As for relatives due to Agema odd way of doing honour.  I suspect abandoning loyal younger brother and various female relations like the Countess Mary of Ghent in Flanders and the Dowager Queen of Spain (your characters Aunt) in Naples to French pillage and aggression will hardly register with Agema.  But abandoning a future brother in law and son in law from Savoy would hurt a lot.

Look on the bright side there are worse positions in Agema games than being Holy Roman Emperor...........Gov of Judea in RIB for one, perhaps CEO of the HEIC in Scrabble (last one assassinated, one before lost his leg), after that I am sort of struggling.

.

It is good to get a different perspective on Austria from Vauban.

I am slightly biased against Austria in G7 for reasons which should be obvious from previous posts, but tend to agree with both Vauban and Stuart that on paper (and in theory) Austria has many advantages and it takes a great deal of bad play to make a mess of being Holy Roman Emperor.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
As they say "life is tough at the top of the greasy pole of the HRE"......understand that the experience of Jason and various others playing the Holy Roman Emperor is :-

1) Holding the title is great for your Honour Score but:

2) You end up in position of having a one way mutual defence treaty with every Elector, Duchy, Free City etc etc in the Holy Roman Empire and if you try and ignore this duty your honour score drops like a stone.  With honour loss also seeming to work in reverse so if its a strong Elector or Prince who picked a fight the loss could be very minor but ignore some Free City you struggle to find on the map and its horrible.

3) Your vassals are generally happy to allow you to upgrade Imperial highways, canals, even build magazines for the Reicharmee etc provided none of this ruins the view or cuts through one of their deer parks........random Agema dice to see if anyone objects?  Which will then cost you honour points.  Oh and of course you are going to be paying the full price if not more.

Do not believe even in your wildest dreams that the Princes, Electors and free cities are going to pay taxes or contribute to the Empire.  With possible exception of some odd player characters who in G7 are mostly represented by the Emperors younger brother and other odd relations its a 100% SET IN STONE RULE AGEMA NPC's PAY NOTHING

4) Once you have passed vote in Reich Stag which condemns the aggression even placed the Imperial Ban on internal aggressors then raised the Imperial Battle standard and had some heroic words and speeches printed in the press some Emperors fondly believe that the Imperial Princes and their armies will flock to the Imperial Standard...............SOME EMPERORS ARE IDIOTS.  Some Popes suffer from the same sort of delusion.

With possible exception of player characters AGEMA NPC DO NOT VOLUNTEER and are not inspired by duty or speeches.  Speaking tours and after dinner speeches against the foe may help your honour score if conducted alongside action but the the only way the Princes are going to provide troops will be via one to one agreements and AFTER THEY ARE PAID.

Also no not expect good ones the Reicharmee was famous for being made up of sub standard units and raw recruits.  Most Imperial Commanders tended to view them as a pioneer corp, good for digging but not much else.

I think this is somewhat unfair to Austria.   I view it slightly differently:

1. Being Emperor places you above any other King in social rank, so it is not just good for your honour score, but should guarantee your word carries additional weight with inactive rulers.  Thus, and looking beyond the honour score, it should make diplomacy very easy.  I'm amazed how many players of Austria fail to appreciate this.  You have a ready-made series of alliances and sit at the top of them, so all you have to do is ask lesser rulers if you can help them, then help them.  

2. You have high numbers of recruits, a potentially strong economy, and a large standing army in 1700.  You also have a Hapsburg on the throne of Spain (in 1700), a relative who rules most of Italy, so ready-made trading opportunities.  Once you've signed a mutual defensive treaty with Spain (which should be worth 5-10 more honour points to both parties), who is likely to attack you?  Literally within the first few turns of a new game you're sorted.  No need to find prospective allies and convince them to sign a treaty with you, it is handed to you on a plate.  A combined Spain and Austria is virtually unbeatable in the early stages of the game.  What other nation has that advantage?  Certainly not France, nor England, nor Russia.

3. Your remaining enemies are Ottomans (disorganised in 1700, lacking technology to challenge you), possibly Russia (but again, in 1700 Russia is far from the powerhouse it tends to become under capable players a few years into the game).  England is not a natural enemy of Austria in 1700, it actually takes a lot of work from Austria to upset England.  As for France, he may start with large armies, but Austria itself is protected by other HRE states, and the immediate challenge for France is always Spain, not Austria.

4. Other HRE states may behave as Stuart describes - they expect you to indulge them, take the initiative in economic development, support them, and in return you get very little if anything if you ask for it, but so what?  Most Agema NPCs are the same.  And all those mutual defensive treaties have their advantage - if anyone tries to attack them, you have the chance to use your military power to intervene and ultimately to impose a settlement, while all the time seeing your honour go up.  The problem comes when you have active HRE members who want to annex their neighbours and then the Emperor has to choose.  But that is partly why a player would choose to play Austria.  Ultimately if any player for Austria doesn't want to be the Emperor then he can always resign and let someone else be elected Emperor who does want the power and to get involved in diplomacy.  It is probably why JFlower made a good Emperor - he does make an effort with diplomacy, not always successfully, but that's how it goes.

The main weaknesses of Austria (as I see it), are:

1. Lack of colonies - if you want to grow trade then the easy choices are within the HRE, Spain or neighbouring states like Poland.

2. Lack of a serious navy - with poor ports and no colonies, it is arguable whether Austria needs a navy at all.  That would put players like me off from even trying to play Austria, but it could also be an advantage in that research can be concentrated on the military and you have no problem with pirates!

3. Frustration getting the HRE to act as you might like.  That said, much of that frustration is caused by players:
     a) seeking to run the HRE as a single nation instead of respecting the Treaty of Westphalia
     b) not putting the time in to improve diplomatic relations with inactive states
     c) failing to recognise that most HRE states are really small positions.  A few thousand recruits to Austria is nothing, but to smaller states it can be an entire year's worth.
     d) trying to form the Reichsarmee or pass motions in the Diet that centralise without having done the necessary preparation (a), (b), (c) first.

4. Being expected to get dragged into conflict.  This might be a bit controversial, but the position has such a head start over nearly every other nation that any player has to accept the responsibilities that come with it.  There is nothing worse than an Emperor who won't defend the HRE when it is attacked, or who because he doesn't want to fight, allows himself to be bought off and sign a treaty with a 3rd party to the disadvantage of the Empire.  It only has to happen once and instead of the inactive HRE states being positively predisposed to support the Emperor, they will take even more convincing to engage with him, and so the frustration (point 3) is likely to build.  There may be very good reasons why an Emperor does not want to fight a war which he is bounced into (usually lacking preparation or facing an overly powerful enemy, or lacking financial resources to fund a war, etc).  But it is to deal with these events that he has the large army he starts with, and the diplomatic advantages to bring in his allies.

Overall, for the right type of player who appreciates what he is getting into, Austria is one of the easiest nations in the game to play and play well.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
5) On the subject of Imperial Commanders think its going to be interesting to hear how the Imperial Reich Marshal (Elector of Brandenburg, King in Prussia) proposes to do his job and hit back at French Aggression against our beloved Holy Roman Empire.  Is the Prussian Royal Yacht Squadron about to sail again?

Having a separate Player Character Imperial Reich Marshal does not so much split the blame around as cause the mud to stick to more players if things go wrong.  But if by some miracle they go right then yes the credit does get split up.

6) As for relatives due to Agema odd way of doing honour, I suspect abandoning loyal younger brother and various female relations like the Countess Mary of Ghent in Flanders and the Dowager Queen of Spain (your characters Aunt) in Naples to French pillage and aggression will hardly register with Agema.  But abandoning a future brother in law and son in law from Savoy would hurt a lot.

I must have missed Prussia being appointed Imperial ReichsMarshall - didn't it used to be Bavaria in G7?  If it is Prussia, then does this mean that the army that has appeared outside Warsaw is Prussian or Imperial?  Must be very difficult for Prussia to be at war with Poland as Prussia, but not as the ReichsMarshall when Austria (as Emperor) is also at war with Poland but presumably using Austrian (rather than Imperial) troops?

Austria in G7 also has the advantage that Stuart has been in the game since 1700 and has deliberately developed Flanders and the Prince Bishoprics to give Spain a strong voice in the Empire.  This should help get measures through the Diet and allows Spain to lead diplomatically when Austria fails to.  Could lead to allegations that the real Emperor in G7 is Spain not Austria, but most players in games would rather have Stuart on their side rather than be opposed to him.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
Look on the bright side there are worse positions in Agema games than being Holy Roman Emperor...........Gov of Judea in RIB for one, perhaps CEO of the HEIC in Scrabble (last one assassinated, one before lost his leg), after that I am sort of struggling.

My (perhaps controversial choices) of the worst positions in Agema games have to include:

- Roger Martel (HWIC) in G7, the man hunted by more nations than Blackbeard, running out of places to hide.
- Some of the smaller Ottoman States (usually have far more troops than they can pay for, undeveloped economies, and the threat that they may get an active Emperor above them who declares war in the expectation you will support them, and if you don't, can chop your character's head off).  The best route through may be to become strong enough to be made Emperor yourself, but then you have rebellious provinces to deal with.  Not my kind of position (partly because of the religious side), but even if you get to be Ottoman Emperor it would be a decade long struggle to unify the vassals and really exploit their combined strength.  I can't remember this ever having been done in game for that reason.
- China (various provinces) - such a huge land area, strange technologies (half of which have probably been forgotten despite the fact that China once led the world in technology), an Emperor who can set you up without you realising it and undermine what you want to achieve.  It is possible to play China well, but it takes a lot of time and a special kind of player; even then it is rather isolated from European events so unless there are multiple Chinese positions active at the same time you are almost playing a game on your own.
- Poland (as discussed in previous posts - getting the Polish parliament to agree on anything is probably worse than trying to get motions through the Imperial Diet - at least the Diet has clear procedures and institutions in the rules whereas Poland is much more opaque (as is China and Ottomans).
- Spain (if taken on in 1700) - you really have to have a clear plan of what you are going to do and take some tough early decisions.  The difficulty is that you know Richard will kill off your character, but you don't know when; and you also know that every other player knows he will kill off your character, but they don't know when.  This can make it hard to find allies unless they want an early war for their own reasons.  You have about a third of the world's land area to protect, but have no chance of even putting in place token garrisons in time; a weakened economy, which constrains how you can spend because you know a war is likely to be started in the first few years of the game that you are not ready for.
- Pirate positions - fine for a few turns to grab a few prizes and cause chaos, but longer term pirate positions are really hard.  You need a base to repair ships, rarely have access to improved technologies that nations have, struggle to find legitimate outlets for captured cargos/ships to sell at decent prices so you are always short of money, you don't have an income from taxes/trade like other players nor the prospect of developing one; same applies to recruits - you literally have to steal them off other players or press captured crews; if you are successful then you become hunted, and worst of all unless you are a thoroughly rotten character in real life it is quite hard to consciously do nasty things turn after turn, breaking your word to everyone you deal with, etc, which you have to do in order to keep your honour score up.

Other nations tend to have a much easier time either in 1700 or can be made much more interesting within a few years if a player makes sensible decisions; they are also easier to turnaround if the starting player messed them up.  England can concentrate on her navy/colonies, France on her army, Russia on freeing the serfs and then exploiting her huge resources, etc, etc.

Quick clarification, the Emperor did not appoint a Prussian Reichsmarshal but he did retire the previous Bavarian one. Appointing them is in the gift of the Emperor.

Papa Clement wrote:

"most players in games would rather have Stuart on their side rather than be opposed to him."

Could someone please pass on above to the ***** who has just assassinated my character in Scabble for Empire !! Ok I have still got 11 left but getting knifed in the back while watching the cricket is hardly cricket. Also French in G7 seem to have failed to get the memo.

Ref Papa Clement other points I would say of the more substantial national positions (so leave out Pirates, Trade Companies, Rebels) the hardest and most super annoying position to play from 1700 is that of "King of Poland".

Austria if you do not mind the lack of a Blue water Navy (it does have a river Navy) and Colonies, something some players consider this an advantage. Is actually a nice compact position with interesting diplomatic and military involvement in lots of different areas. Ok its got internal problems with Hungarian Nobles/rebels but hay everyone in 1700 starts with problems and Austria's are not the worst by some way.

However, I think Papa Clement rather views the position through rose tinted specs......it is not actually that easy to play. My view of Austria is that its a balancing act:-

a) You have to get heavily involved with other players and make allies since on its own in terms of man power and financial resources Austria is the weakest of the Great Powers (Ok apart from Sweden but Sweden is a sort of puffed up Middle Weight with a Army on Steroids). And if its isolated it will get eat alive by the French, Ottomans if they ever stop feuding amongst themselves, and even in some Games the Spanish or the Prussians or Bavarians with a lot of allied back up.

b) But if the Emperor over promises allies inc the ones in his Imperial Oath to protect the rest of the HRE. He runs the risk of having a lot more things to do than he has resources for.

Guess the ultimate nightmare for Austria would be a Bourbon Spain fighting the English, Bourbon France with its southern France secured by family alliance with Spain, Various Princes of the HRE trying to take over other parts of the HRE and making alliances outside of the Empire. While various Ottoman War Lords conspire with anti-Hapsburg Protestant rebels to "Free" Hungary. Which sounds very like G2 to me.

Stuart Bailey wrote:I think Papa Clement rather views the position through rose tinted specs......it is not actually that easy to play.  My view of Austria is that its a balancing act:-

a) You have to get heavily involved with other players and make allies since on its own in terms of man power and financial resources Austria is the weakest of the Great Powers (Ok apart from Sweden but Sweden is a sort of puffed up Middle Weight with a Army on Steroids).  And if its isolated it will get eat alive by the French, Ottomans if they ever stop feuding amongst themselves, and even in some Games the Spanish or the Prussians or Bavarians with a lot of allied back up.

b) But if the Emperor over promises allies inc the ones in his Imperial Oath to protect the rest of the HRE.  He runs the risk of having a lot more things to do than he has resources for.

Guess the ultimate nightmare for Austria would be a Bourbon Spain fighting the English,  Bourbon France with its southern France secured by family alliance with Spain, Various Princes of the HRE trying to take over other parts of the HRE and making alliances outside of the Empire.  While various Ottoman War Lords conspire with anti-Hapsburg Protestant rebels to "Free" Hungary.  Which sounds very like G2 to me.  

I think you slightly missed the point Stuart.  Austria's main advantage is that strategically it doesn't really control any area that is super valuable to anyone else, so should have fewer natural enemies.  What use would part of Hungary be to France or England?  The same applies to nearly all other Austrian possessions.  Whereas colonial powers like England, France, Spain, Portugal, UDP, are much more likely to become embroiled in a colonial war or conflict with natives.

G2 may be the exception (before my time or not a game I played in), but it is rare for there to be active Ottoman players who have the strength or will to challenge Austria.  An Emperor must have done a really bad job with his diplomacy not to notice an anti-Hapsburg Protestant league (Prussia, etc) allying with the Ottomans to attack Austria.

Papa Clement wrote:

G2 may be the exception (before my time or not a game I played in), but it is rare for there to be active Ottoman players who have the strength or will to challenge Austria.  An Emperor must have done a really bad job with his diplomacy not to notice an anti-Hapsburg Protestant league (Prussia, etc) allying with the Ottomans to attack Austria.

Ottoman positions very popular in G1 and G2 do seem to have become less popular in later games. Bit like the formerly popular position of King of Poland. Before my time but I think in G1 players started off with x2 positions and often had a Western colonial one was matched with something landlocked in Germany or exotic.

Not sure why this is but Agema may have weakened the Ottoman and Polish positions and game has become a lot less pure military so Austrian players now spend more time worrying about the Spanish Succession and duties of being Emperor and less time campaigning to their East. In G2 the Spanish Succession ended rather quickly when King Carlos II passed away and the Spanish player then proceeded to crown himself King Philip of Spain before invading Portugal the following turn. Before spending a happy decade getting married to a Jacobite and beating the hell out of Portugal, England and France at various times with hardly a work said to Austria unless it was to moan about the loss of his Arm storming Lisbon.

Meanwhile Austria fought at least three wars with the Ottomans:-

1) Before my time in G2 but Sultan gets to gates of Vienna before being thrown back by Christain alliance called the Warsaw Pact and being betrayed by the Hospadar of Moldavia who takes Wallachia and parts of Rumelia and crowns himself King of Rumania. Not sure how much diplomatic or military credit is due to Emperor but general feeling when I joined game was that super aggressive Sultan was mostly stopped by reaction lead by the King of Poland and Doge of Venice (another target of Sultan).

2) A new Emperor seems to think its time for 7 years war early and attacks Prussia for no reason in particular and storms Berlin. This was a diplomatic disaster of the first order as Prussia had mutual defence pacts with Sweden, Russia and Poland. The very powers who had saved Vienna from the Turks and thrown them back too Belgrade a few years before. They are not very happy about being stabbed in the back like this.

As well as being diplomatically inept the Emperor also gets confused over maps and orders his troops to Garrison Sarajevo which causes a poor, underpaid, overworked Ottoman Civil Servant (me) to suffer the loss of his very small garrison. Killing 1400 Rumelian troops "by accident" an error almost equal too invasion of Prussia without checking Prussian alliances first.

3) Following war number two the Protestant Hungarian Rebels get their own player run Kingdom and everyone happy until another ruler of Austria (no longer Emperor as Imperial title dropped in a fit of Temper when Princes refused to obey orders) invades Hungary without checking who Hungary was allied too.

Guess you could say Austria made a rather poor job of its diplomacy in G2 when on two occassions it has other ok Protestant powers - pleading with the nice kind loveable Ottomans to save them.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Ottoman positions very popular in G1 and G2 do seem to have become less popular in later games.  Bit like the formerly popular position of King of Poland.  Before my time but I think in G1 players started off with x2 positions and often had a Western colonial one was matched with something landlocked in Germany or exotic.

Not sure why this is but Agema may have weakened the Ottoman and Polish positions and game has become a lot less pure military so Austrian players now spend more time worrying about the Spanish Succession and duties of being Emperor and less time campaigning to their East.  In G2 the Spanish Succession ended rather quickly when King Carlos II passed away and the Spanish player then proceeded to crown himself King Philip of Spain before invading Portugal the following turn.  Before spending a happy decade getting married to a Jacobite and beating the hell out of Portugal, England and France at various times with hardly a word said to Austria unless it was to moan about the loss of his Arm storming Lisbon.

Perhaps it is a combination of factors.  G1/G2 were much faster (2 week turnarounds) so players could try crazy things and know they had their next batch of income/recruits if things went wrong.  Lack of time to think about game turns also favoured tactics over strategy.  Once the game slowed down and became more complicated players had time to make more considered decisions, research their countries and perhaps this contributed to some countries becoming less popular to play.  It is relatively easy to decide on how to play England, France, Russia, etc, but unless you already know something about the history and characters in other countries, it may be more of a challenge.  

There are advantages to picking up unpopular positions in mid-late period games (lots of cash and recruits, and possibly a clearer idea of how existing players are allied); as well as the obvious disadvantages (lack of research improvements, grain reserves, infrastructure improvements, etc), but both Poland the Ottomans are quite sizeable positions with substantial natural resources (Poland has a population of 6M, Ottoman Anatolia of 8M which should provide 20-30,000 recruits annually); I would expect Poland to have an annual surplus of around £2M, so anyone joining after 5 game years would start with £10M in the bank and 100,000 recruits, which sounds like a great opportunity to me.  I'm not sure whether all of the population is available as recruits to Ottoman positions, and the cash is likely to be less, but the recruits should compensate and it would appear to offer ready-made opportunities for a team position which seems to be a modern preference.

From your previous descriptions of the difficulties playing Poland, I can see how that could put some players off, but for the right player who can unlock the key, Poland has a lot of advantages.

As for the Ottomans, it wouldn't be a position for me (I would find the religious side difficult to play with conviction), but for those who appreciate either the culture or wish to be a bit different, I would imagine it is a country a player could have a lot of fun with.

Stuart Bailey wrote:
Meanwhile Austria fought at least three wars with the Ottomans:-

1) Before my time in G2 but Sultan gets to gates of Vienna before being thrown back by Christian alliance called the Warsaw Pact and being betrayed by the Hospadar of Moldavia who takes Wallachia and parts of Rumelia and crowns himself King of Rumania.  Not sure how much diplomatic or military credit is due to Emperor but general feeling when I joined game was that super aggressive Sultan was mostly stopped by reaction lead by the King of Poland and Doge of Venice (another target of Sultan).

2) A new Emperor seems to think its time for 7 years war early and attacks Prussia for no reason in particular and storms Berlin.  This was a diplomatic disaster of the first order as Prussia had mutual defence pacts with Sweden, Russia and Poland, the very powers who had saved Vienna from the Turks and thrown them back to Belgrade a few years before.  They are not very happy about being stabbed in the back like this.

As well as being diplomatically inept the Emperor also gets confused over maps and orders his troops to Garrison Sarajevo which causes a poor, underpaid, overworked Ottoman Civil Servant (me) to suffer the loss of his very small garrison.  Killing 1400 Rumelian troops "by accident" an error almost equal to invasion of Prussia without checking Prussian alliances first.

3) Following war number two the Protestant Hungarian Rebels get their own player run Kingdom and everyone happy until another ruler of Austria (no longer Emperor as Imperial title dropped in a fit of Temper when Princes refused to obey orders) invades Hungary without checking who Hungary was allied too.

Guess you could say Austria made a rather poor job of its diplomacy in G2 when on two occasions it has other ok Protestant powers - pleading with the nice kind loveable Ottomans to save them.  

Sounds like a series of blunders.  Although I like the idea of an Emperor dropping his title just because Princes refused to obey his orders - since the Hapsburgs have almost enough votes in the Diet to have an outright majority, to manage to upset every other prince (including all the inactive ones) must have taken some doing.  Seems to be a pattern of declaring war on nations who would normally be considered friendly towards Austria, but who had by then decided to join alliances on the opposite side.   I guess he just really didn't get the game, despite hanging around long enough to start 2 wars.

The newspaper for September 1716 has arrived and for the benefit of non-players, here is a brief summary of events from the viewpoint of England:

1. As is traditional in G7 writeups, there have been no reported Russian merchant shipping losses this month.  There have been 27 French lost in the North Sea, 5 in the Mediterranean, 11 in the West Indies, 5 in the South Atlantic, 8 in the Mozambique Channel, 1 in the South China Sea making a total of 57 French ships lost.  Rather oddly 5 Kwantung vessels are also missing.  There have also been a number of other types of ships lost for various reasons, but the winner of the Tsar’s Our Ships Sank trophy is France.

2. The French navy may have disappeared this month, but their armies have made rapid progress in Savoy, gaining control of Nice, Alessandria and Aosta.  Outside Turin, the forces under the command of the Duke of Savoy (a mixture of Germans, Swiss and Spanish with the odd Italian who hadn’t been loaned to Spain) numbered 16F, 27H and some Spanish Miquelets.  The rather overconfident French general d’Alegre fielded 40F, 86H, 40FA and some French light infantry.  Smoke filled the battlefield obscuring much of the action which may have helped the morale of the Duke’s forces, but when it cleared they realised their attack had achieved little and retreated back to the city.  This may appear to have been a pointless attack, but the Duke not only ran down French powder supplies, he also delayed any siege of Turin until the end of the campaigning season.  The advantage still lies with France, but it will not be easy for France to finish Savoy off.

Meanwhile there have been various diplomatic attempts to unravel what is going on with the Duke, the Duchess and Prince Victor.  Prince Victor has returned from Vienna having concluded he will never get to marry Maria Josepha.  The Duke is determined he will.  The Duchess, who is described in the newspaper as “amiable and virtuous”, has a splendid picture of herself on the inside pages.  In a rather rambling discussion of her pedigree in Regensburg it was pointed out that the Duchess is a member of the House of Stuart, although what was not revealed was that her marriage to the Duke (in real history) was rather strained, and it is therefore possible that although the Duke was in favour of the Hapsburg marriage, the Duchess was not.  This may go some way to explaining some of the reasons for what is happening in Savoy, but France has so far remained silent, as has Austria.  In Rome the English ambassador clearly raised some concerns about the validity of any marriage given the political and military links between the Hapsburgs and Savoy.  So there would appear to be more to this than a purely military aspect.  Perhaps more will be revealed next month?

3. In Southern France, Spanish forces have crossed over the border in force and have placed Perpignan under blockade.  In a rather sneaky move, they have taken possession of a very large coaching inn called Fort James, “owned by a Msr.Gabriel Thomas, this is technically a fortification but has operated as a business for many years instead, it is thought since the last war over Roussilon was fought.”  The sudden appearance of this ‘business’ conveniently situated to act as a supply base and place of retreat for Spanish forces, has HWIC’s fingerprints all over it.  Nice to know Spain has received something back for all the support she gave Martel, although if French intelligence was operating effectively they would surely have spotted this and shut it down years ago.  If memory serves, in the previous war this area fell very quickly to Spanish forces, so it will be interesting to see if it is any different this time.

4. There have been several developments on the Polish front.  A Polish force of 15F, 40H convinced Prussia’s Konigsberg Army to retreat, although after they had returned to Warsaw, a second Prussian army, of 29F, 22H and 6FA with 3 light infantry companies appeared.  King Frederick of Prussia has helpfully announced that he is Reichsmarshal and has strongly condemned what he considers to be an Anglo-French attempt to crush the Holy Roman Empire and issued a rallying cry for more troops.  In one of the more bizarre rants, he claimed “The fact that Poland has allowed the warmongering religious fanatics of England to land in Danzig further demonstrates how unstable the Commonwealth is, and that it is a clear danger to the Holy Roman Empire, to Prussia, Russia and all its neighbours!”  Jacobite Naval Intelligence is of the opinion that the Polish Commonwealth is proving remarkably robust given it is being invaded by Prussia, Austria, the Kalmar Union and Russia simultaneously, and that if Prussia is really worried about its stability then she should start by withdrawing her troops.

5. In Danzig (now under blockade by the Russian Baltic Fleet) the Chevalier Ramsey made a few observations on the Duchy of Courland before continuing with his research which revealed a few surprises.  Prussia had already helpfully volunteered the information that the Teutonic Order is now based in Bad Mergentheim, Württemberg, but it was revealed that the present Head of the Order is Grandmaster Franz Ludwig von Palatinate-Neuburg.  In December 1704, he made a rare public utterance confirming that the Teutonic Order still exists.  There does however, seem to be some dispute with Prussia, the Order having title to Marienburg which is currently under Prussian rule.  Where this leaves the Order and its Grand Master is unclear, but it would appear to support the Chevalier’s belief that by pressing these attacks, the Lutheran Alliance is inevitably splitting parts of the HRE along religious grounds and placing some rulers in a compromising position.  If the Emperor (Austria) was not involved in the fighting then it would be his responsibility to step in to defend the Treaty of Westphalia and stop this happening, but it is Chevalier Ramsey’s view that he is incapable of doing so.  Where this leaves the institutions of the HRE is anyone’s guess, but whatever is decided in the November voting may well be open to future legal challenge and many states will be very uncomfortable with being placed in this situation.

6. In Krakow, representatives of Emperor Joseph attempted to get him awarded the title of Grand Duke of Krakow only to be informed one of his predecessors had sold it for 1,200,000 silver coin at the Congress of Visegrad which saw a coalition of Hungary, Bohemia and Poland form to oppose the House of Hapsburg.  Happy days, but will history repeat itself?  The Austrian Reising Brigade of Dragoons which had seized Tarnow last month by surprise, found the people of the town were pleased to see them leave and slammed the gates in their face to stop them returning.  They had to scale the walls to retake the town.  Doesn’t really fit with Austria’s claim to be there to ‘protect’ Poland, does it?

7. At Mittau the Kalmar Union artillery came under fire from the gallant Polish commander of the town.  A siege was the only remaining option which progressed well for the Kalmar forces until they came to the main curtain wall.  With temperatures falling it will be interesting to see how much progress they can make before the weather breaks them.

8. Polock has surrendered to Russian forces.  Meanwhile at Minsk Russian forces have contented themselves with ransacking Polish and Lithuanian trade caravans, ignoring their orders not to do so.  How to make friends, Russian style?

9. In Lisbon King John of Portugal has been congratulated in his choice of bride by the Earl of Tyrone and the Spanish ambassador, the Marques d’Avaray.  Portugal’s Foreign Minister has understandably asked for clarification of what French war aims are.  I hope he gets an answer now King Louis has finished celebrating his birthday.

10. Spain has absorbed the Portobello Company within another of her operations, the Asiento Corporation, paying nominal compensation to shareholders.  This welcome move provides more evidence that Spain is complying with the Treaty of Rome and is committed to maintaining the peace with England.  The Spanish navy also had some success against French galleys off Gibraltar.

11. In colonial news, the installation of water cisterns has helped solve the water shortage on the island of St.Croix.  However, ex-slaves building the town of Fort Ross on St.Vincent are objecting that their pay is inadequate.  A Russian fleet has arrived in New Tver where a Spanish trade mission has been opened.  Governor Gannibal is keen to improve fortifications, but rightly wonders if the ground is solid enough to support them.

12. Following the capture of 2 English EiM by the Persian 4th Fleet, Commander Khan apologised and set them free.  Unfortunately for him, the standing orders of the local Royal Naval forces swung into action and he found his fleet of 90 cruisers, 4 auxiliaries and 3 French prizes facing a bit of a dilemma.  Normally a fleet of that size would simply divide and run, but Commodore Greene had planned for this possibility and was determined to find out what was happening.  Rather than attempt to parley with the English, the Persians sought to use their advantage in speed to sail up the Red Sea, hoping that the Royal Navy would lose interest.  That was a rather bad judgement since it made them look guilty.  The English pursued them until they ran out of sea room, and then they engaged.  Commander Khan’s leg was shot off, but still his captains failed to use any common sense and strike their colours until they had lost a few more ships.  They are being taken to Socotra where they will face an Admiralty Court next month.  Commodore Greene’s tactics were spot on, but will the Admiralty Court consider he acted correctly?

13. In Manila, Spain has attempted to offer Letters of Marque to Russia Department East and other Far Eastern rulers.  This ran into some difficulties because it is not clear whether there has been a formal declaration of war between France and Spain or Spain and France.  Should Russia Department East accept, it will be a significant departure from the neutrality she has claimed throughout the previous few years.  It also may not inflict much damage to France since according to the Trade Report, France occupies position 9 on the Far East Trade list.  Compare this to African Trade where France is 4th or Maritime Trade where France is 1st, it would appear that the Far East is not a major market for French traders anyway.

14. With most of Europe determined on war, King James made it back from Wales in time to compete in the annual Princess Louisa Tennis Championship.  Unfortunately the journey was somewhat uncomfortable and contributed to the Royal Team being ranked 19th out of 25, a slightly worse performance than last year.  However, young Prince Henry seems keen to have a go, banging his racket on the floor.  Next month should see the annual Royal Cricket Match which will be against Essex, the winning county team.  This is likely to be the highlight of the next newspaper and far more important than all the warmongering.

Overall this month France made solid progress in Savoy, but Spain has broken through in the South of France.  Poland remains a mess, but the Lutheran Alliance seems determined to push ahead irrespective of the cost.  Time will tell whether they are going to suffer the same fate as Quinten van Dort who raised the stakes in his game against Caspar van Clitters in The Hague and lost far more than he won last month.

Couple of points ref Papa Clement generally full and accurate account of G7:-

1) Do not agree with Papa Clements award of the we sink ships award to the French. As well as the ships mentioned in the above post the French also lost another seven galleys captured by the Spanish for a total of 64 ships lost.

But the Persian 4th fleet lost 3 ships sunk (assume they were all Escort frigates) and another 94 captured (assume 7 remaining Escort Frigates, 22 Frigates, 38 Corvettes, 20 cutters, four auxiliaries and three French prizes). Though some might say that the three French prizes should not count for the Persian Score.

However even with 3 sunk and 91 captured this months prize is a clear victory for the Shah both in terms of number of ships lost and the for hard core purists who think only ships which actually "sink" should count.

If one is really picky one could say that the French lost another five sunk by the Spanish to block the Royal Canal to beat the Shahs three sunk. But in my opinion barges do not count as ships.

The five sunk barges is hardly a scratch to French trade and Industry but the fact that the Spanish also smashed locks and have blockaded the Straits of Gibraltar to the French (allowing everyone else through) may put some pressure on French merchants to get them to lobby King Louis to leave Savoy and Genoa. Not that King Louis ever seems to pay much attention to French interest groups or anyone else really.

2) Major point which seems to be missing from point 5 of Papa Clements account is that as well as the Russian Naval blockade of Danzig this key Baltic trade port is also under a land blockade with the Prussians diverting merchant convoys to Prussia.

It is currently unclear if the large English trade convoy which sailed into Danzig prior to the blockade is now trapped in the blockaded port or had already sailed. It is also unclear if English, French, Spanish, Dutch etc merchants are happy to be diverted and forced to pay Prussian tolls as well as Polish ones.

3) In one mighty bound the King in Prussia over took the Spanish Treasury Minister and became the 2nd most honourable man in G7. Apart from the diversion of tolls to the Prussian Treasury the Prussian Junkers seem to be overjoyed that Prussia is now acting like a 1st rate Power and playing a leading part in both the affairs of the Polish Commonwealth and standing up in the Reichstag to take the lead in attacking the the French invasion of the Holy Roman Empire and demanding action.

If the King in Prussia/Elector of Brandenburg now actually stands head and shoulders above his fellow Electors is a moot point (Fake it to you make it?) but clearly someone is playing a blinder and using the twin advantages of being a long way from King Louis and being a drinking buddy of the Czar for all that its worth.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Couple of points ref Papa Clement generally full and accurate account of G7:-

1) Do not agree with Papa Clements award of the we sink ships award to the French.  As well as the ships mentioned in the above post the French also lost another seven galleys captured by the Spanish for a total of 64 ships lost.

But the Persian 4th fleet lost 3 ships sunk (assume they were all Escort frigates) and another 94 captured (assume 7 remaining Escort Frigates, 22 Frigates, 38 Corvettes, 20 cutters, four auxiliaries and three French prizes).  Though some might say that the three French prizes should not count for the Persian Score.  

However even with 3 sunk and 91 captured this months prize is a clear victory for the Shah both in terms of number of ships lost and the for hard core purists who think only ships which actually "sink" should count.

If one is really picky one could say that the French lost another five sunk by the Spanish to block the Royal Canal to beat the Shahs three sunk.  But in my opinion barges do not count as ships.

The five sunk barges is hardly a scratch to French trade and Industry but the fact that the Spanish also smashed locks and have blockaded the Straits of Gibraltar to the French (allowing everyone else through) may put some pressure on French merchants to get them to lobby King Louis to leave Savoy and Genoa.  Not that King Louis ever seems to pay much attention to French interest groups or anyone else really.  

Thank you Stuart.

It is really up to the Tsar whether we should just count merchant ships (L, EiM, etc) in the totals rather than cruisers or other armed ships.  Not all losses are reported in the newspaper - England lost 1L in the West Indies this month but it is not clear who took it.  So numbers are only provisional.

The Persian 4th Fleet is excluded because its status has yet to be determined - that will happen next month at the Admiralty Court.  It would be wrong on principle to pre-judge the trial or condemn the ships as being lost until the precise details are established. For now they are just brought in for questioning.

Stuart Bailey wrote:2) Major point which seems to be missing from point 5 of Papa Clements account is that as well as the Russian Naval blockade of Danzig this key Baltic trade port is also under a land blockade with the Prussians diverting merchant convoys to Prussia.

It is currently unclear if the large English trade convoy which sailed into Danzig prior to the blockade is now trapped in the blockaded port or had already sailed.  It is also unclear if English, French, Spanish, Dutch etc merchants are happy to be diverted and forced to pay Prussian tolls as well as Polish ones.

3) In one mighty bound the King in Prussia over took the Spanish Treasury Minister and became the 2nd most honourable man in G7.  Apart from the diversion of tolls to the Prussian Treasury the Prussian Junkers seem to be overjoyed that Prussia is now acting like a 1st rate Power and playing a leading part in both the affairs of the Polish Commonwealth and standing up in the Reichstag to take the lead in attacking the the French invasion of the Holy Roman Empire and demanding action.

If the King in Prussia/Elector of Brandenburg now actually stands head and shoulders above his fellow Electors is a moot point (Fake it to you make it?) but clearly someone is playing a blinder and using the twin advantages of being a long way from King Louis and being a drinking buddy of the Czar for all that its worth.

It is difficult for me to comment on the situation around Prussia, being involved as I am.  It is not clear, for example, whether the Russian ships which sailed from Prussia are still under Russian control or are controlled by Prussia.  Similarly it is not clear whether the Teutonic Order is under the control of Prussia - quite possibly not (despite what King Frederick wrote) if the Teutonic town of Marienburg was not ceded to the Teutonic Order.  Since the GrandMaster is Pfalz, does this mean that Pfalz is compromised and that we actually have a civil war within the HRE, aggravated by Prussia's expansionist plans?  It is nice to see changes on the honour table and Prussia has played well so far, but it is easy to talk big when you have a few hundred thousand Russians behind you and you are picking on an inactive Poland.  I do get the feeling that Poland has not even started fighting seriously yet, and things could change very rapidly in favour of Poland in the coming months.

Within 2 months France has overrun most of Savoy leaving only Turin and a small army loyal to the Duke.  It may be hard for France to take Turin, who knows?  But if only a fraction of those forces are diverted towards Prussia, the boasts may prove rather hollow and Prussia crumble very quickly.  As I have observed many times before, it is easy to start a war - much harder to stop one.

Papa Clement wrote:
13. In Manila, Spain has attempted to offer Letters of Marque to Russia Department East and other Far Eastern rulers.  This ran into some difficulties because it is not clear whether there has been a formal declaration of war between France and Spain or Spain and France.  Should Russia Department East accept, it will be a significant departure from the neutrality she has claimed throughout the previous few years.  It also may not inflict much damage to France since according to the Trade Report, France occupies position 9 on the Far East Trade list.  Compare this to African Trade where France is 4th or Maritime Trade where France is 1st, it would appear that the Far East is not a major market for French traders anyway.

Just in case anyone is interested, Dept East is currently going "why?" on this whole Letters of marque fun and games.

We'll go to war and rip the hearts out of Russia's enemies when the Czar gives the order, but until then we really don't give a flying monkeys about the petty disputes of others

Love and kisses

Dept East

Jason2 wrote:

Papa Clement wrote:
13. In Manila, Spain has attempted to offer Letters of Marque to Russia Department East and other Far Eastern rulers.  This ran into some difficulties because it is not clear whether there has been a formal declaration of war between France and Spain or Spain and France.  Should Russia Department East accept, it will be a significant departure from the neutrality she has claimed throughout the previous few years.  It also may not inflict much damage to France since according to the Trade Report, France occupies position 9 on the Far East Trade list.  Compare this to African Trade where France is 4th or Maritime Trade where France is 1st, it would appear that the Far East is not a major market for French traders anyway.

Just in case anyone is interested, Dept East is currently going "why?" on this whole Letters of marque fun and games.

We'll go to war and rip the hearts out of Russia's enemies when the Czar gives the order, but until then we really don't give a flying monkeys about the petty disputes of others

Love and kisses

Dept East

France attacked the Duke of Savoy a fellow member of the Holy Roman Empire and a ruler who Spain (outside the Empire) also has a mutual defence pact with.  Savoy called upon Spain and the Holy Roman Empire to honour its word of honour and declare war on the French aggressors.

Thought it was pretty clear declaration of war when King Charles stood under the banner of Saint James before the whole Cortez and lifted the sword of the Cid against the Frogs.  Short of beheading a few thousands French peasants and fireing their heads into a fortress or nailing a French envoy to the gates of Varsailles.  Something I am not really allowed to do in G7 (Pity......I miss the old days in G2) not sure how it could have been made much clearer.

But sadly some members of the Spanish civil service seem to be missing a triple stamped and signed order ref the declaration of war so delayed the issue of Spanish letters of Marque against the French

Oh well when trying to wage a holy war for right, truth, justice and superior tobacco products and calling on all men of true honour and valor to join in,
then being stabbed in the back is about average. Doubt if the Spanish civil service can teach the Janissary Corp and the Grand Mufti anything.

Hopefully by mext month everyone will have seen the signed and really nicely stamped declaration of war, interested parties will have got their letters of marque and Agema NPC will have spotted the fact that the Spanish civil and diplomatic service includes a Embassy in the high mountains of Asia and Fishery protection of Cape Horn which needs volunteers.