Back Seat Chariot Drivers

With Nero setting himself up as a far greater land reformer than Gaius Flaminius (killed in battle by Gauls he upset with his land reform), The two Gracchus brothers (both murdered by Senators upset about their land reform) and Julius Caesar (also murdered by upset Senators).

When not trying to work out who is going to win in Otha Iberian games next year. The famous Philosophers, back seat Chariot drivers and bookies of Corduba, Emerita Augusta and other civilized spots are asking themselves: If our great Emperor Nero falls victim to annoyed Southern Italian owners of the huge slave run estates he will need to break up into plots for the 347,000 Roman settlers who of the brave and heroic Roman Generals is in poll position to take over as Commander in chief?

In event of a new Commander in Chief the next questions are:

a) Will he continue with the Emperor Nero bold and very, very brave land reform program to restore the land of Italy to the landless poor of Rome? And as a side effect restore the recruit base for the Legions?

b) Will he also give Latin rights to Iberia? Actually Nero has already upset so many Southern Italian Senators he might as well go the whole hog and upset them even more by giving Latin rights to Iberia and Southern Gaul.

In answer to my own post one - the back seat Chariot drivers current scores on the doors:

a) British legions have built some really nice roads and bath houses - but for how much longer can they keep pretending that their British hunting dog eat the orders from Rome to send the head of a certain North British King to Rome? Problem is the campaign season in Caladonia is basically last two weeks in July to first week in September and the Midges are deadly. Some people also think the British Legions have got a bit too fond of their British wives, British hunting dogs and British hunting partners and may even be going Native. More interested in High Kingship than the purple?

b) The Rhine Legions have done well to cross the Rhine and establish bridgehead on east bank of the Rhine. Problem is the Germans seem to have done the same on the west bank. Likely result both Legions and Warbands spend enjoyable summer raiding and taking slaves - everyone a winner apart from a few villages and new slaves. But no doubt the Rhine Commanders will be able to dazzle everyone with their Engineering skills and military ability.

c) The Danube Legions seem to have done lots interesting stuff with bringing civilization to the Balkans with roads, wine presses and gold mines but less well with ending Dacian slave raids south of Danube. They also seem to owe Nero 5,980,000 denarii from the Macadonian Gold Mines. This would seem to indicate a urgent need to invade Dacia and find Nero his money from sale of Slaves and proceeds of Dacian Gold and Silver mines. Problem is what is the King of Dacia currently spending all that gold and silver on? Has he convinced captive Romans to show him such benefits of civilization as fortifications and artillery? Or used it to hire lots of hairy horsemen and Bastarae with big axe type things?

d) The current front runner has got to be the Gov of Syria who has gone great in the east using a mix of threats and diplomatic charm to turn buffer states into loyal clients (loyal clients of who exactly?) willing to provide the archers and cavalry his army might otherwise be short off.

Latest recruits is the King of Osroene in Edessa "convinced" to offer his son and 400 cavalry for the Syria strike down the Tigris to Ctesiphon. Only problem is said son and cavalry are in Singara and in the middle of 14,800 Parthian Horse archers, 9200 Heavy Cavalry and 1000 Camel Lancers.
Which means either he "revolts" and turns Parthian. Which risks being made a orphan and new King of Orsoene rather early or he risks never living to before King unless the Romans save him from the Parthians who thought they were saving him from the Romans! Its not easy being a Eastern Roman client King!

- Current betting on race to the Purple goes Syria, Rhine, Danube, Britain but its a tough race to call and hints are being dropped about possible dopping and other dirty deeds.

Darn, I think my Computer is broken, I can't scroll on the "Poll Listings" at the start of this thread.

Seems that at least one is missing maybe more, but I can't seem to scroll down the listings.

f)? The Iberian faction l who have pushed through the legislation to help rebuild Rome in a safe manner.
Are Requesting/ Demanding Latin Rights for Iberia which if granted will make them Hero's in the peninsular .As a small
side effect also giving them a slightly enlarged recruit pool to raise a Legion or two maybe 3 at the outside 4 at a push, 5
if they really push the boat out.....
Not to forget they have more Silver & Gold mines than the rest of the Empire put together to pay for those new shiny
Legions or to pay the Danube & Rhine Legions a bit of back pay & danger money?




So if anyone knows how to repair the scroll function on the poll list please let be know.

Now you are talking wild outsiders like f) Senate restores Republic g) The North Africans who control most of the grain supply h) The Gauls who include the other Consul aside from Nero and may have hiden the man claiming to be Nero half brother i) The Iberians - only one legion in Iberia. Its a tough posting soaking up the rays and sampling the local wines and olive oil with rope dancers from Gades but someone has to do it! But the sons of the sons of Scipio Legions already provide the man power (and the wages) for 4 of the best Legions and the best Cavalry Auxiliary Cavalry in the Army.

Think f to i are less "contenders" and more questions the big 4 need to answer and parties they need to get on side. In particular both the Iberians and the Gauls are still loyal to the Emperor/Empress and their commanders. But like everyone they have their hopes and dreams which are currently "blocked" by a totally unreasonable faction in the Senate and the cost.

Question for possible contender's for the big job (not that its vacant yet) is do you want to upset a faction in the Senate (who may control the Guard?) or dash the hopes and dreams of southern Gaul and Iberia?

Think the only way anyone outside the big 4 could be a considered for the post of C & C would be if all the top Army command's were too busy with other matters like a) Stuck in siege of Ctesiphon b) Stuck in siege of Sarmizegestusa c) Lost in German forest and trying to find way home. Could this be while the British Command is staying firmly in their bath house with their orders from Rome eat by the dog? Just would not look right going to your coronation covered in midge bites.

I think there is an Iberian chap who would do a good job. And if commanders were thinking of err, a transfer of power, wouldn't it be useful if players communicated so that some sensible arrangement could be constructed.
It may not last BUT with an emperor who saw the value of Rome and the strengthening of the empire and wasn't just p*ssing on the chips we could do some civilising.

I expect that if commanders are engaged in war-fighting their opportunities might be restricted?

Regor wrote:I think there is an Iberian chap who would do a good job. And if commanders were thinking of err, a transfer of power, wouldn't it be useful if players communicated so that some sensible arrangement could be constructed.
It may not last BUT with an emperor who saw the value of Rome and the strengthening of the empire and wasn't just p*ssing on the chips we could do some civilising.

I expect that if commanders are engaged in war-fighting their opportunities might be restricted?

Glad someone has noticed that while the Druids plot and insult Rome in the north, the East is a mess of Jewish rebels, Parthian agents dodgy religious cults, and the Germans and Dacians have crossed the Rhine and Danube.

Iberia under noble and civilized magistrates like Servius Sulpicius Galba, Marcus Salvius Otho and Marcus Ulpus Trajan is a oasis of order, calm and civilized Roman values. Even if Marcus Salvius Otho has rather shaken things up a bit by the issue of a challenge/proposal to have a all Iberian games every four years.

This general game drift has resulted in one Roman faction which loves Iberia but is having a truely dire and horrible time back in Rome splitting its orders under headings:

"Orders for Iberia (Where Nero’s administration is having a great time with Games, Spanish Dancing Girls and Political campaigning and where happy Natives tend their Olives and dream of glory at the games)"

&

"Orders for Italy & elsewhere (Where Nero’s administration has been thrown into Panic by its genius but possible flawed head suddenly dropping a great idea for land reform on them with no notice & in the middle of winter and with possible plague and famine thrown in!)"

PS The Iberian administrations find lots to talk about : Lack of Latin rights, Olives, Games, Lack of Latin rights, Chariots, Horses, Lack of Latin rights, Dancing girls, Gladiator's, Poetry and authors. Plus how terrible it is elsewhere and will it hurt our Olive Oil exports and are our family, friends and kinsmen doing their bit for Rome in the Legions safe, warm and getting enough Olives in their diet?

Ah, Otho - now there's a man we can all get behind. But remember that you may want to consider chatting through your plans with other folk who wish to expand the empire and carve out a name for themselves that the 600 senators will one day say, "I knew him when he was only a boy!"

Regor wrote:I think there is an Iberian chap who would do a good job. And if commanders were thinking of err, a transfer of power, wouldn't it be useful if players communicated so that some sensible arrangement could be constructed.
It may not last BUT with an emperor who saw the value of Rome and the strengthening of the empire and wasn't just p*ssing on the chips we could do some civilising.

I expect that if commanders are engaged in war-fighting their opportunities might be restricted?

Can only agree with this, Especially the communications bit The scroll writing to fellow players is an important part of the whole.

Maybe it is because we have read the History books & know Nero is on borrowed time. (A bit like the Spanish Succession kicks off most LGDR games after a short settling in period) Seems the Roman Faction(s) are just marking time. The Barbarians on the other hand don't give monkeys & just want get some Roman Heads on sticks for the kids!

In theory what Roman players should have in common is that they are all senior Senators of Rome and should have an interest in the rebuilding of the city (including funding off). Plus as members of the Senate they should be interested in what advise the Senate gives to the Emperor ref the direction of Roman policy.

Some Romans have tried to get involved and have generally had a pretty hard time of it. But I do wonder if many others see the rebuilding of Rome (and the funding off) as nothing to do with them and a problem for others? While also trying to keep their heads down in Rome and avoid any Imperial attention and involvment in what they view as their patch.

Does this "local" viewpoint mean that players do not talk at all? only talk to neigbours and people who may have a influence on "their province"? And does this mean that some players actually talk more to "Barbarians" just across what they view as their frontier than they talk to fellow Romans?

My character has no Barbarians to talk too but I admitt that a bit of a "Iberian" focus has developed with the three Iberian players viewing Iberia as a Island of calm and civilization in a sea of anarchy. If it continues at this rate we are likely to build a Navy and fortified lines across the passes from Gaul to keep out the Druids and the little Blue Men! Also no Jews, Christians or other Parthian agents!! So I wonder if some Roman players on a Barbarian frontier (or Island) are starting to feel they have more in common with their Barbarian neigbours than they do with a Government in Rome which is hard, unfeeling and does not understand them or their problems?

Seems to me that the players who hold the main Miltary Provinces do need to talk to each other a bit more and perhaps even try and co-ordinate Campaigns a bit. Also Roman Commanders have under their Command Legions who draw their manpower, pay and supplies from home area's deep in the Empire. They could always try sending the odd scroll back home to depots, relations and civil administration in these Legions home area's?

What is interesting if you look at the records of many of the top Roman commanders (untill a long time after our period) was that very few seem to have viewed themselves as military men alone or the soldiers as soldiers in isolation. Rather they commanded as Roman Magistrates and commanders like Ceasar, Sulla, Pompey, even Augustus kept a very close eye on how their campaigns looked and were represented back home. While Legion rank and file viewed themselves as citizen soldiers and were hyper protective of this status.

Thus if troops feel their commander supports their ambitions and has the support of the home front - in "theory" the citizen soldiers of Rome should be able to beat up a few Barbarians with ease. Ok its just a theory but anyone got a better one?

AD Infinitum for Nov 818 has shown up and I never thought I would say it but this scandal rag is starting to make publications like the Britannic Times and Glori du Roi look like bastions of honest reporting and high moral standards.

First it reports "There is no plague or famine in southern Italy" then the next month is blandly reports that "we do not have to spend any money on the Imperial order to save on Rome re-building costs as the 347,000 people of Rome sent to southern Italy will re-settle vacant landholdings".  So if no plague or famine last year where did the vacant land come from?

Thinking that settlers will need seed grain, tools and their corn dole to get them too the next harvest the city treasury asked about extra costs of transport and the like and caused a shortly to be denied report that Rome itself does not have enough grain to get through to the next harvest and faces famine.  Assume that supplies of grain from Egypt are just delayed by lack of wind and calm in the Med.  But its a bit worrying that the Egyptain Grain Moguls have seen fit to distract the Emperor with a Egyptian slave girl rather than just sending confirmation that the grain is sat in Alexandrian Silo's awaiting delivery?  Really hope that its all down to lack of wind and not too many Egyptian farmers being converted into gold miners and the like.

AD Infinitum also printed slander about the Danube Legions planning revolt which not doubt comes direct from Druid Propaganda.  While printing nothing at all about the 24,000 missing Romans on way to new homes in Northern Europe.

I just hope for the sake of the Iberian games that its sports reporters offer a better service to readers than the hacks covering the Senate, Italy and events in the East as readers in Corduba are currently totally baffled about what is going on in the vast majority of the Rome Empire. Oddly however its reports on the King of the Huns wedding, Calidonian political positions and the Parthian King of Kings going on his hols seem a lot clearer.

Well it’s taken some digesting! Nero has set the cat amongst the pigeons to be sure! Yes, there must be regicide planning going on in Southern Italy where catastrophe lurks. But the problem is huge: the Emperor has caused an imminent disaster that will affect taxes, commerce and recruitment to the legions for years to come. There is no viable plan (so the Senate debates) to address the rebuilding of Rome.

So now if the Barbarians strike with any power there will be no support available for the affected provinces.

And I fear for those along the Rhine.

What to do? Withdraw from Britannia?

Cannot the successful Iberians give his nibs a few pointers?

Storm clouds gather!

Ref the Emperor plan for land reform and settlement of homeless Romans in the South of Italy - since they are mostly from settler families (rather native after 250 years) their friends and allies. The Iberian faction in the senate believes the Emperor plan is a work of genius which if Roman Officials put into practice with DRIVE, DETERMINATION & ENERGY (so not live the stuck in a Bath House conquest of Britannia !!) will allow the spacious, cheaper and fire safe rebuilding of Rome plus more importantly return the Roman people to their small farm roots and restore the recruit basis of the Legions (younger sons of farmers).

In order to make the plan work and not turn into a repeat of the "Conquest" of Britannia which seems to have bogged down or the small "Settlement of Belgicia" which may have turned into a disaster somewhere near the upper waters of the Rhine. The Iberian view is that:

I) Settlers and indeed people who have not moved from Rome or the south will need to be provided with their corn dole and seed corn. This will need the Governors in Egypt and North Africa to send grain supplies not only to Rome but too the settlers in the south as well. This should be possible as the south has many fine ports and is closer too Carthage and Alexandria than the port of Rome, but if they do nothing many, many of their fellow citizens will die and the Emperor's plan and all hope of social/land reform to restore the moral fibre of the Roman people will die with them.

Basic question is will Vespasian and the Gov of Egypt support the Emperor and the poor Roman plebs? Or will they back the narrow sectional interests of their class and Southern Italian Landowners and destroy the re-settlement of the south by inaction?

II) Based on 347,000 people in average family groups of six with one male citizen head and a average "Colonna" having 5,000 citizen settlers this means 12 new colonna. Needing 24m denneri for tools etc, etc or 12m if slaves and equipment "borrowed" from Eatates in the south. This raises two questions a) What status are these Roman citizens and their new "colonna" going to have? And if they get full Roman Citizenship why not the older Roman colonna in Iberia? & b) Who is going to fund the new settlers? The Emperor? The Treasury? wealthy Romans helping the poor? or mix?

Iberia calls upon the leaders in North Africa and others to not only send grain but dig deep in their pockets to help the poor settlers. Also for the settlers to retain their full voting and legal rights as Roman citizens (which also need to be extended to Iberia).

III) Resettlement of 57,833 family groups of six people will need 57,833 hides of land to support them (a hide being between 80 & 120 acres depending on fertility). In south Italy the only way this amount of land can be provided is if large slave run estates are split up into smaller family plots for settlers. Something which is going to really, really annoy a lot of rich and influential landowners so the Emperor really needs to beef up his security and make sure that members of guard do not have close family and other links with landowners or he could easily be killed in the same way as many prior Roman land reformers.

IV) Land for Roman Colonna in Italy was normally provided by way of a peace treaty with Samnities, Sabines and other Italian peoples giving up up too a third of their land to gain peace with Rome. So unless the Emperor is taking the land - sort of delayed punishment of the Luccians, Sicilians etc backing Hannibal against Rome in second Punic War he should consider paying "compensation" to the landowners who will otherwise lose out. And reduce his chance of getting murdered by annoyed Senators and Landowners from Southern Italy.

Anyone know what 57,833 Hides of Italian Agricultural land is worth?

If any players own land in southern Italy question is do you try and defend you family estate? Or give up some of it to help your poor fellow citizens in their hour of need? Do you value the Gold or Glory/Reputation with your fellow citizens?

________Basically it is all really not a all clear but the sacred chickens think possible options for Roman faction in RIB include a) They all work with each other to make the settlement of the south as success or b) They do nothing or very little and it all turns into a bit of a disaster with a chance of the Emperor being murdered by annoyed landowners or massive riots in Rome with Plebs annoyed that thousands of them starved to death due to failure of north african grain supply.

As a Roman I agree. Firstly the Legion’s commanders must talk to one another (regularly) though to be fair letters are often delayed or lost in the post. Next temped as I am to do nothing the damage to our economy/reputation and the romanisation of barbarians will be huge.
But
Without some agreement amongst the “players”* I’ll take a back seat.

Let’s get a grip!! How about a triumvirate or whatever a five way split of power is

* see what I did there.

Regor wrote:As a Roman I agree. Firstly the Legion’s commanders must talk to one another (regularly) though to be fair letters are often delayed or lost in the post. Next temped as I am to do nothing the damage to our economy/reputation and the romanisation of barbarians will be huge.
But
Without some agreement amongst the “players”* I’ll take a back seat.

Let’s get a grip!! How about a triumvirate or whatever a five way split of power is

* see what I did there.

Assume a five way power split would be the four main Armies - Britannia, Rhine, Danube and Syria plus the North Africans who have a fair number of troops plus control of the grain trade and the Emperor's mistress.

Poor Iberia and Gaul left out in the cold again still loyal to the true Roman Empress rather than than some want to be Cleopatra Nile side floozy.

Will we ever get our Latin Rights???

Oh, I think Iberia and Gaul could easily be accommodated under the right Emperor. Especially if He <hint, hint> stepped up before the south of Italy goes to pieces!

Could well be that the problem for the Roman side is that they have read the History books & know what "Should" happen rather than what "Could" Happen. So in theory there is or should be a team Rome but the managers job is looking a bit dodgy, individual players but no team tactics. Add in that the way Nero is being portrayed by the Gods on Mount Agema & I doubt very much if anyone really wants to ask to many questions for fear of getting the answer.

May well explain why the Commanders at the front are having more communication with the Barbarian team than there own side

Time to untie the Sacred Goats of war maybe!

J Flower wrote:Could well be that the problem for the Roman side is that they have read the History books & know what "Should" happen rather than what "Could" Happen. So in theory there is or should be a team Rome but the managers job is looking a bit dodgy, individual players but no team tactics. Add in that the way Nero is being portrayed by the Gods on Mount Agema & I doubt very much if anyone really wants to ask to many questions for fear  of getting the answer.

May well explain why the Commanders at the front are having more communication with the Barbarian team than there own side

Time to untie the Sacred Goats of war maybe!

Not sure if "Cry havoic and let loose the goats of war" has quite the right ring to it.

But I agree that team Rome badly needs some victories and a War Hero or two to stand forth, provide inspiration for the Senate and People of Rome and scare the **** out of the Barbarians.

Not saying the brave and heroic commanders of the Legions have lost their edge but I) The Druids are mocking us from the highlands and still have our Eagle II) The Parthians are putting up rude art work on our borders & III) Germans and Dacians are launching slave raids on our provinces with seeming impunity.

Not sure if the leaders of the Roman Military are scared of putting their head's up in case the Gods of Mount Agema cut it off or if they are scared that a defeat will ruin their reputation and political ambitions. But I say "Stand tall, stand proud and poke the Barbarians in the eye......just like your mama told you when you were about knee high."

Gents I may have a view on the Goats of War. And in my role I have been keen not to go mad (geddit?) before I had the mechanics of the GoA’s Legionary control in hand. Also a little training and intelligence gathering was required. I think next year will see some action if only to keep one commander away from Rome.

But I take the point about Nero’s moodiness. Yet as his Glory appears to be fading….wont he have problems like other ‘players’ in getting things done??

Lastly I’d rather be facing the barbarians than sorting out the mess in Southern Italy.

Ref the "mess in southern Italy" as members of the Senate and leaders of the Roman people I think:

1) 347,000 people divided into average family groups of 1 male citizen and 5 dependants like wives, children, slaves, aged mothers etc = Around 12 average Colonna of 5,000 Citizens each.  So to do our duty by our fellow citizens we need to influence treasury to cough up or dig deep into own pockets to provide min of 12m Dinnari to provide settlers with tools, food to get them to next harvest etc, etc

Actually call that another 10m as my faction has already been helping out.  Basically if it all goes to hell in a hand chart and the mob starts to riot and lynch senators and torch our Roman Villa's I like to think the gods on Mount Agema may let off the people who stood up and tried to help.  But rather suspect if team Rome does not solve problem and it really festers we all get faction members lynched alongside the Emperor.  And some Army commander is going to have to march from the Danube/Rhine to restore law and order a street at a time.  

Hope the training included Urban?

2) Rome does not have enough grain to get too next harvest.  This is perfectly normal and reason why so much grain is imported from North Africa every year.  Only this year with so many citizens out of the city, Team Rome leaders in North Africa need to make sure corn dole (and seed grain?) gets to them as well as port of Rome or citizens will starve and we will get the blame.

3) With historic Roman settlement just under 60,000 family groups need a hide of agricultural land (80 to 120 acres) each.  Traditional way to supply this land was defeated peoples gave up up too a third of their land for Roman settlement (helped if a lot of them killed in war prior to settlement so Gauls, Samnites etc did not need as much land) but currently only way that amount of land is going to be found for settlers is if huge run estates in south split up.

Which raises couple of a question for team Rome: a) How much is this land worth?  And do we pay compensation too the owners?  b) My gut feeling is that Nero government can not pay this amount unless one of its heroic generals takes and sales a few hundred thousand slaves or loots say the Temple of Jews God or one of the great cities of Parthia and gives profits to the Treasury to compensate southern Italian landowners.

If very wealthy and powerfull South Italian landowners with loads of family, clients, friends in Senate and Guard etc are not paid for land used by the Emperor to re-settle his poor people.  Rather than getting murdered in a Plebian riot is possible that "team Rome" (lets face it all our characters are basically chariot racing or drinking cronies of Nero) lose their beloved leader and many of their Roman senators in a Patrician coup against Nero and his cronies ie us!

- By gut feeling is "Team Rome" needs to keep the Plebs on side ie try and avoid mass famine etc and if we can not fund compensation prepare rapid exit when Mount Agema blows up, burries Nero and we all end up on a proscribed list as his old cronies and office holders.  Question then is does team Rome split at that point on do the Army chiefs stay loyal to the Julio-Claudian family, the Imperial Land Reform program and fight the traitors who murdered our beloved Emperor?  And can we find a "Hero" to replace Nero?

Ideal solution would be a military hero like Julius Ceasar, Sulla etc ......only problem is they seem to be currently in short supply!: but I am sure Regor etc has plans to fix this small problem and save the day:D  Only thing is can you please hurry up as some of us are starting to smell the Suplhur from Mount Agema!!!!!!

DONT PANIC, DONT PANIC, DONT PANIC

Stuart Bailey wrote:Ref the "mess in southern Italy" as members of the Senate and leaders of the Roman people I think:

1) 347,000 people divided into average family groups of 1 male citizen and 5 dependants like wives, children, slaves, aged mothers etc = Around 12 average Colonna of 5,000 Citizens each.  So to do our duty by our fellow citizens we need to influence treasury to cough up or dig deep into own pockets to provide min of 12m Dinnari to provide settlers with tools, food to get them to next harvest etc, etc

Actually call that another 10m as my faction has already been helping out.  Basically if it all goes to hell in a hand chart and the mob starts to riot and lynch senators and torch our Roman Villa's I like to think the gods on Mount Agema may let off the people who stood up and tried to help.  But rather suspect if team Rome does not solve problem and it really festers we all get faction members lynched alongside the Emperor.  And some Army commander is going to have to march from the Danube/Rhine to restore law and order a street at a time.  

Hope the training included Urban?

2) Rome does not have enough grain to get too next harvest.  This is perfectly normal and reason why so much grain is imported from North Africa every year.  Only this year with so many citizens out of the city, Team Rome leaders in North Africa need to make sure corn dole (and seed grain?) gets to them as well as port of Rome or citizens will starve and we will get the blame.

3) With historic Roman settlement just under 60,000 family groups need a hide of agricultural land (80 to 120 acres) each.  Traditional way to supply this land was defeated peoples gave up up too a third of their land for Roman settlement (helped if a lot of them killed in war prior to settlement so Gauls, Samnites etc did not need as much land) but currently only way that amount of land is going to be found for settlers is if huge run estates in south split up.

Which raises couple of a question for team Rome: a) How much is this land worth?  And do we pay compensation too the owners?  b) My gut feeling is that Nero government can not pay this amount unless one of its heroic generals takes and sales a few hundred thousand slaves or loots say the Temple of Jews God or one of the great cities of Parthia and gives profits to the Treasury to compensate southern Italian landowners.

If very wealthy and powerfull South Italian landowners with loads of family, clients, friends in Senate and Guard etc are not paid for land used by the Emperor to re-settle his poor people.  Rather than getting murdered in a Plebian riot is possible that "team Rome" (lets face it all our characters are basically chariot racing or drinking cronies of Nero) lose their beloved leader and many of their Roman senators in a Patrician coup against Nero and his cronies ie us!

- By gut feeling is "Team Rome" needs to keep the Plebs on side ie try and avoid mass famine etc and if we can not fund compensation prepare rapid exit when Mount Agema blows up, burries Nero and we all end up on a proscribed list as his old cronies and office holders.  Question then is does team Rome split at that point on do the Army chiefs stay loyal to the Julio-Claudian family, the Imperial Land Reform program and fight the traitors who murdered our beloved Emperor?  And can we find a "Hero" to replace Nero?

Ideal solution would be a military hero like Julius Ceasar, Sulla etc ......only problem is they seem to be currently in short supply!: but I am sure Regor etc has plans to fix this small problem and save the day:D  Only thing is can you please hurry up as some of us are starting to smell the Suplhur from Mount Agema!!!!!!

DONT PANIC, DONT PANIC, DONT PANIC

As for hurrying up the rules of logistics are against us. It’s taken a year to get slightly trained legions and will take another 4 months unit units are “appropriately” armed.

However I agree with the above and about “team Rome”. If we DONT work together the Empire will be over-run. And I think I know enough about you guys to be certain you want to improve on antiquity!

Regor wrote:

As for hurrying up the rules of logistics are against us. It’s taken a year to get slightly trained legions and will take another 4 months unit units are “appropriately” armed.

However I agree with the above and about “team Rome”. If we DONT work together the Empire will  be over-run. And I think I know enough about you guys to be certain you want to improve on antiquity!

Think one possible problem with spending masses of time polishing the Legions drill is what are the Parthians, Dacians, the boys in blue and other hairy types using the time for? Probably exactly the same so the military balance ref drill remains.

Since historically Nero tops himself and after a small amount of unpleasantness Rome enters the golden age of the Prax Roma under a line of perfectly decent Emperors one of whom is my characters son (who makes my character a god!) and two others were related by marriage. My character is perfectly happy for the game to follow broadly the same lines as antiquity.

One major problem as I see it is that in antiquity and with the major exception of Germany the "Barbarians" played very little part in the events of 69AD. Most were too scared to get involved with the Legions while the Parthians did nothing to help the Jewish revolt and indeed were so keen to see Roman power and stability restored in the east that they offered the Roman Commander in the East 40,000 horse archers. An offer he turned down.

Since the game does not major on damage to Pathian economic health caused by distruption of the silk trade or on the political development in central asian steppe which was normally the number one concern of the Parthian Kings rather than Rome I will take a wild guess and say that the King of Parthia is up too his eye balls in meddling and plots and every month which goes past see's another Parthian agent planted and probably not on the steppe!

Also as another wild guess I do not think various Barbarian Kings and Queens are as scared as they should be and may be more inclined to "meddle" across the frontier. Which raises an interesting problem for frontier generals of:

a) Do they try and cover their back with cross frontier alliances

or

b) Try and cover their back and build up reputation in the old Roman style by kicking the ***** out of the hairy types.

As a total back seat chariot driver I have the edible doormice on a slow cook and look forward to reading about what happens next. Think on basis of like father like son think my character will have to cheer for any general who goes for option B and then puts on some good games.

Since in antiquity in 107AD after the Dacian wars Trajan junior put on 123 days of games with thousands of animals and 5,000 pairs of dladiators fought. Looking forward to the first player to improve on that! He has got my vote in the Senate.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Regor wrote:

As for hurrying up the rules of logistics are against us. It’s taken a year to get slightly trained legions and will take another 4 months unit units are “appropriately” armed.

However I agree with the above and about “team Rome”. If we DONT work together the Empire will  be over-run. And I think I know enough about you guys to be certain you want to improve on antiquity!

Think one possible problem with spending masses of time polishing the Legions drill is what are the Parthians, Dacians, the boys in blue and other hairy types using the time for?  Probably exactly the same so the military balance ref drill remains.

Since historically Nero tops himself and after a small amount of unpleasantness Rome enters the golden age of the Prax Roma under a line of perfectly decent Emperors one of whom is my characters son (who makes my character a god!) and two others were related by marriage.  My character is perfectly happy for the game to follow broadly the same lines as antiquity.

One major problem as I see it is that in antiquity and with the major exception of Germany the "Barbarians" played very little part in the events of 69AD.  Most were too scared to get involved with the Legions while the Parthians did nothing to help the Jewish revolt and indeed were so keen to see Roman power and stability restored in the east that they offered the Roman Commander in the East 40,000 horse archers.  An offer he turned down.

Since the game does not major on damage to Pathian economic health caused by distruption of the silk trade or on the political development in central asian steppe which was normally the number one concern of the Parthian Kings rather than Rome I will take a wild guess and say that the King of Parthia is up too his eye balls in meddling and plots and every month which goes past see's another Parthian agent planted and probably not on the steppe!

Also as another wild guess I do not think various Barbarian Kings and Queens are as scared as they should be and may be more inclined to "meddle" across the frontier.  Which raises an interesting problem for frontier generals of:

a) Do they try and cover their back with cross frontier alliances

or

b) Try and cover their back and build up reputation in the old Roman style by kicking the ***** out of the hairy types.

As a total back seat chariot driver I have the edible doormice on a slow cook and look forward to reading about what happens next.  Think on basis of like father like son think my character will have to cheer for any general who goes for option B and then puts on some good games.

Since in antiquity in 107AD after the Dacian wars Trajan junior put on 123 days of games with thousands of animals and 5,000 pairs of dladiators fought.  Looking forward to the first player to improve on that! He has got my vote in the Senate.

I’m voting for your lad, Oh God-Like one… I for one will enjoying watching the Generals trying to achieve an appearance of being busy and avoiding the limer-light whilst being considered a safe pair of hands on the borders!

I’ll get the boys to round up some exotic animals too!

Have just decided that if we can get Nero to Iberia for the Sept 819 Iberian Games we stand a good chance of getting him to give Latin Rights to the Iberian provinces......probably as he celebrates his victory in the 12 Horse Chariot race at Emerita Augusta with a team of Gabes Rope Dancers giving him a rub down. Basically its a fool proof plan - what could possibly go wrong ??????

So far have come up with the following possible small problems:

- It all goes belly up in the East and the Emperor has to dash off to save his beloved Hellanistic Culture from revolting Jews and PJ wearing horsemen instead of visiting Iberia.

- The Emperor does not live to to Sept 819 due to southern land owners upset about his land reform or revolting stone throwing plebs having food riots. Waiting for reports on size of compensation claims for the land the Emperor has just taken over for the Roman poor and on how much grain team Rome is now short in Italy. Also bothered by the Emperor taking up with some Alexandrian floosy.......this type of thing is hardly ever good for health of Rome Leaders. Indeed having a lover from the east is a bit like putting on a red top in Star Trek it never goes well.

- I know its Otha home course and he with the Emperor and the third boy racer in Germania should know what they are doing and it may just be the angle of the view but I swear that the bends at Emerita Augusta look really tight compared to Rome.....could some top class toadying by the Iberian faction end in a Chariot crash?

So much as we would love some exotic animals for the games from Regor and anyone else who wants to donate (working with children and animals is that not tempting the Gods of mount Agema?) think Team Rome really needs to concentrate more on:

a) Keeping the Emperor alive to at least November 819 so he can complete the land reform and reward all those poor, hard working and loyal Iberians

b) Keeping 347,000 settlers and the Population of Rome from starvation - wonder if we can eat some of the exotic animals?

c) Avoiding it really going to ***** in Britannia, on the Rhine & Danube frontiers and in the East.

Basically my characters future divinity would seem to depend on their being an Empire for junior to become Emperor off in 40 years time and quite frankly I am starting to have the odd doubt.

Stuart Bailey wrote: Seems to me that the players who hold the main Miltary Provinces do need to talk to each other a bit more and perhaps even try and co-ordinate Campaigns a bit.

It is my understanding that Germania Minor, Dalmatia and Moesia are exchanging ideas on strengthening the river barriers, whilst preparing for future action. As evidenced by the German and Moesian forts and outposts on t'other side. Preparations for an invasion, territorial grab or even a reprisal raid take time.

If Trajan   wants to prove himself more than a backseat driver and critic, perhaps he should lobby Nero for permission to go get the Eagle back from the Caledoni? I can assure you of my support.

This is a great game. I smile at the Spanish encouragement to act and the reasons why it should occur but as Mount Agema simmers there are other factors:
Comms are getting a bit better but nowhere near as good as in other games (LGDR) and all my troops are short of training, information and appropriate weaponry. (I thank the Moesian folk for sorting out kit to face the Dacii before we are in battle).
And its taking a while to understand the checks and balances of action or inaction.
I think I need to remember to take baby steps towards goals and keep checking the rules and history to ensure i act Roman-like.

Looking forward to the next reply!