The Age of Enlightenment. Game 9.

Well Zen Gardens maybe... but am sure he'd like the horses

It's all getting very complicated.

1. Prussia retracts his slanderous statement about the Dowager-Queen of Spain, but his ally Saxony has now said much worse. Will the Spanish Army now evacuate Prussian territory?
2. Ultra Protestant England and Ultra Catholic Spain are now allied and at war with Prussia, Sweden and Saxony-Poland over the honour of the Dowager Queen. King William has just arrived from the Netherlands pledging to protect the true religion, what will he make of his ministers pro-Spanish policy?
3. The Emperor continues to enjoy some light Opera and his orchestra in Vienna, whilst the peace loving Venetians try to invade Austria on every front.

Maybe the Emperor plans to send in hordes of opera singers to sing the Venetians into surrendering?

Yes, a constant barrage of Germanic opera sung by an Elite Brunhilda troop of Imperial Divas, may cause john eyetie to turn tail. The Austrian watch and coastguard appear to be holding their own at the moment, however.

Goldstar wrote:It's all getting very complicated.

1.  Prussia retracts his slanderous statement about the Dowager-Queen of Spain, but his ally Saxony has now said much worse.  Will the Spanish Army now evacuate Prussian territory?
2.  Ultra Protestant England and Ultra Catholic Spain are now allied and at war with Prussia, Sweden and Saxony-Poland over the honour of the Dowager Queen.  King William has just arrived from the Netherlands pledging to protect the true religion, what will he make of his ministers pro-Spanish policy?
3.  The Emperor continues to enjoy some light Opera and his orchestra in Vienna, whilst the peace loving Venetians try to invade Austria on every front.

Faced with alliance of Spain, England & Venice plus with arm twisting by the Emperor over the morality of his sister in law it looks like Prussia has backed down putting the rest of the Danzig Pact and Saxony in particular into a really difficult position.

Logically Augustus the Strong and Charles Vasa will now have to follow the moral lead of their Prussian Ally and accept little Philip as the proper legitimate Hapsburg King of Spain. But with the bad & the Ugly of the Danzig Pact you never can tale........no doubt they will be feeling let down and sulking at not being able to take on the Army of Flanders and loot, plunder and burn in rich Hapsburg Dutchies.

The Holy Roman Emperor is no doubt relieved that his leading Protestant Electors will probably not be having a war with female relations but the war between the ex Catholic allies of Austria & Venice now seems to be very much on.

Claiming to be worried about the alliance between Venice & Spain the Pasha of Rumelia has asked for a non aggression pact with these two powers. Is the Pasha really worried or are the Ottomans just looking to cover their flank prior to a strike up the Danube? If the Ottomans do march how much blame will be placed on the Doge and his dodgy dealings with the Golden Horde? Can the Emperor still count on sulking Protestant Electors and the King of Poland?

On the subject of Hapsburg's who dont know who the hell the enemy is............4,500 Spanish Troops marched into Innsbruck. Are they helping their Venetian Ally (surely not against their own Royal Family!) ???????? Or are they on Holiday?

Not sure what their masters intention was (hope the Austrians fired on them perhaps?) but the troops clearly think that a Hapsburg civil war is unthinkable and they are on their holiday because they handed in their weapons to the town watch and spent month site seeing and resting in local inns etc.

Life seems a lot more complex for Hapsburgs in G9 than it does in for the happy united Francophobe Hapsburgs in G7. Personally I blame the enlightened, civilized, Wine Label loving Louis XIV in G9. Without a rabid French Warlord or a Ghazi Sultan to unite against the Hapsburg Family is falling to bits.

So Europe has fallen into its good old ways in G9...blood, warfare...so to add in rampaging Turks?

And mighty Egypt ready to expand into Africa, I will soon test out what it's like fighting against natives.

All well and done Prince of Prussia apologising but will the Spaniard, sorry poodle of Venice accept it as his boots on the ground have taken Cleve and Ravensberg beckons??? As for the Swedes/Saxons/Polish I feel from what observed of these gentlemen they will not be put off by Prussias craven action(unless its a cunning ruse to deceive Spain sorry venice before a blitzkrieg occurs??
Well worth watching

1.  Peace in our time in Northern Germany at least.  The Elector of Saxony also apologies about his slanderous comments about the Dowager Queen of Spain.  Her most Catholic Spanish Majesty accepts the various apologies and orders her army back to Flanders.  Where this leaves England and Sweden, is anyone's guess?
2.  The Dowager Queen also withdraws Spain from the Austro-Venetian war, probably not comfortable fighting her brother in law the Emperor.  
3.  Where does this leave Venice, the Spanish Queen urges them to make peace but what does the Cardinal-Minister think?
4.  The 4500 Civilian clad Spanish troops in Innsbruck have decided to enter Austrian service, what does this say about the motivation of Venice's Spanish troops?
5.  King William is making his presence felt in England, meanwhile his government in the UDP meets with the Austrian Ambassador in Private.

MarkTurner26 wrote:And mighty Egypt ready to expand into Africa, I will soon test out what it's like fighting against natives.

In G2 when the Bey of Egypt attempted to expand south he ran up against the "Lion of Judah" who came with War Elephants, War Camels, Hordes of Fanatic Spearmen and oddly a Polish Built Battlefleet.

The Bey was actually captured and held to ransom with threats that if the Ottoman's did not pay the Bey was going to be covered in honey and staked out over a killer bee colony.

Suspect the fleet of modern war ships was an oddity of G2 but Mamluke Lancers really don't like smelly Camels and try to avoid a meeting with the killer bee's and fighting in a dust storm if using muskets to keep fanatic tribal foot away as it goes " Clunk, Click.......Agggggggggh."

Goldstar wrote:1.  Peace in our time in Northern Germany at least.  The Elector of Saxony also apologies about his slanderous comments about the Dowager Queen of Spain.  Her most Catholic Spanish Majesty accepts the various apologies and orders her army back to Flanders.  Where this leaves England and Sweden, is anyone's guess?
2.  The Dowager Queen also withdraws Spain from the Austro-Venetian war, probably not comfortable fighting her brother in law the Emperor.  
3.  Where does this leave Venice, the Spanish Queen urges them to make peace but what does the Cardinal-Minister think?
4.  The 4500 Civilian clad Spanish troops in Innsbruck have decided to enter Austrian service, what does this say about the motivation of Venice's Spanish troops?
5.  King William is making his presence felt in England, meanwhile his government in the UDP meets with the Austrian Ambassador in Private.

Feeling in some quarters is that with the whole Danzig Pact on the War Path the Spanish Army of Flanders is lucky to get out Germany intact......let alone with honour and apology recieved.

The Question remains did the Elector of Brandenburg say sorry and cut the diplomatic ground out from under his allies because a) He is a jolly nice chap influenced by circa 1700 legal thories on war who was shocked to find out that his allies were set on bloodshed, fire and rapine circa 1618-1648 and as such wanted no part in burning Flanders down to the bedrock or b) He was bribed by the Emperor (what price King in Prussia?) to be nice to his sister in law/Nephew.

The Emperor is also busy keeping the Danzig Pact & the Northern Protestants on side with gifts of Grain to Saxony and appointing a Hanovarian head of the Reicharmee.

Perhaps in return of the Emperor saving the Spanish Army of Flanders and Flanders itself from being savaged by savage Swedes and drunken Saxon Cossacks.......Hapsburg Spain now seems to be trying to stay out of the Austo-Venice War.

If Spain stays out (and treaty obligations may make this hard) the Doge is left to fight the Holy Roman Emperor on his own. This would seem to suit everyone with the exception of the Doge.

The Question is how will this most cunning and slippery of diplomat's deal a situation were his Navy is of limited value and his land forces are probably outnumbered and out gunned? While he rely on cunning and military skill? Or does he deal with the Ottomans?

If you are the Ottomans is this a opportunity too good to miss ? But can you trust the slippy Doge not to sale you down the Danube ? (If I was an Ottoman in this game - I am not - I think would just turn the whole issue over to the Sultan and blame him when it goes wrong).

The Ottomans have a wealth of options, but when Poland/Sweden/Prussia were at war with Spain there were even more. All the traditional Ottoman enemies were at each others throats. Perhaps the Doge's manipulations were to support the Ottomans, just joking. But the Doge seemed quiet last month unless I missed something.
And when did the Elector of Prussia become King - I missed that one as well.

A quiet turn by recent standards.
1. King Billy sacks the crypto Jacobite Churchill as war minister.
2. The dowager Queen of Spain is triumphant after Saxony retracts it slanderous statement.
3.  The Emperor visits the local Viennese branch of Starbucks, whilst offering Venice a way out of the current conflict.
4. Austrian troops March into 2 undefended Venetian cities.

Goldstar wrote:A quiet turn by recent standards.
1. King Billy sacks the crypto Jacobite Churchill as war minister.
2. The dowager Queen of Spain is triumphant after Saxony retracts it slanderous statement.
3.  The Emperor visits the local Viennese branch of Starbucks, whilst offering Venice a way out of the current conflict.
4. Austrian troops March into 2 undefended Venetian cities.

Quiet...........I think the actual word is boring. When the hell does the shooting start?

First we had Bourbons accept the Hapsburg "miracle" baby......and the WSS is called off.

Then the Spain sends a army to hang the elector of Brandenburg from his palace gates but with England backing Spain and with both of the Electors Danzig Pact allies in the field it all ends without a shot fired and a mumbled Prussian apology which left the Saxons & Swedes with no option but to follow the Elector of Bradenburg and another perfectly good war ends without a shot fired.

Call me an old fashioned Ottoman but this is not a triumph or a proper revenge

Finally after years of simmering hostility, nasty insults inc a suggestion that the Emperor is senile, blockades of Imperial ports it all looks set for a proper war between Austria & Venice over the Duchy of Milan and without a shot fired the Austrians offer control of Milan & trade concessions to the Doge if he would be so kind as to allow Austria to use its own ports...........and a third perfectly good war probably ends without a shot fired.

G2 is also now at peace.

With the exceptions of the GNW in G7 and the North American War in G3 are people finding the new supply rules etc too difficult? Or are campaigns now viewed as a minor and not very important part of the diplomatic process? With the spending money on gun powder to be a sign of failure?

my experience of the new campaign rules are they are brutal....this could of course be my useless leadership and strategy.

Ok, so we now all wait for Stuart to go on an invasion spree across the whole of Glory...

Though in G8 there are a couple of conflicts on the go...Portugal-Spain is busy blockading the Barbary pirates and the Great Moghul is attacking the Jat

Jason wrote:Ok, so we now all wait for Stuart to go on an invasion spree across the whole of Glory...

Though in G8 there are a couple of conflicts on the go...Portugal-Spain is busy blockading the Barbary pirates and the Great Moghul is attacking the Jat

Have waged only one proper campaign under the new rules and they seemed to work Ok..........with no more than a third of my Dragoons employed as supply convoy escorts and regular rest breaks for some formations every month was able to keep Sickness Levels from 1-3 and keep momentum at a reasonable level.

Think it helped that my silo's were full and not that far from the troops and I generally fought in Ok conditions rather than Russia in the middle of Winter for example.

I actually quite like the new rules since under the old rules siege's and esp blockades seemed too easy/low cost.

The only thing I dont like is that you can live off the land in the Black Forest & Southern Italy but it seems this is not possible in Normandy, the Loire Valley & NE Spain in the Valley of the Ebro.  When my light cavalry were plundering in some area's I blamed the SL gain on too much Brandy & Truffles (well they were the hired help....probably not used to the rich food).

As well as putting emphasis on sorting out you own supply/logistics I also think the new rules means that the art of in-game generalship is now not fancy plans, drills, equipment but timing since you can have the best trained, best equiped troops troops with the most fancy uniforms in the game but if they have spent three months undertaking a siege and have SL 4/5 they are asking for trouble if a fresh relief force hits them.

Which means these fancy modern "Armies of Observation" and Colums of Reinforcement now have a role to play.  

But for buggering up you opponents sickness levels and supply lines I still feel that the old Ottoman LC order of "Scored Earth Tactics - burn, loot, plunder" has a part to play.

An interesting month.

1. The Stadtholder of the UDP, who happens to be King of England, Scotland and Ireland, demands to see the disposition of the Royal Navy.
2. Sweden accepts it is now at peace with Spain, while accepting France's right to Newfoundland.
3. Bavaria draws closer to France, but accepts the right of Imperial Diet endorsed Reicharmees to operate in its territory. Playing both end perhaps.
4. The Emperor declares the current regime in Venice.illegal, but the dodgy Doge now accepts the Emperors admittedly liberal peace terms. Will His Sacred Majesty accept or demand more due to the Venetians habit of running at the sight of his Whitecoats.

The Venetian borders seem to be collapsing. I expected more of a fight from the Venetian player, but possibly the Spanish desire for peace has changed the strategic position for Venice. A Venetian/Spanish military alliance could counter balance Austria in Italy, but I cant see Venice doing it by himself, which is I suppose why he has accepted the peace terms.

I am sad to see that "G8 the age of enlightenment" seems to be turning into G8 the game of diplomatic poker! And every time some one's bluff gets called they fold.

What has happened to the concept of fighting to keep your honour even if the odds do not look good?

And why do people declare war and offer really, really soft peace terms at the same time? The terms which Austria offered in G8 were so soft as to almost represent a Venetian Victory without a shot fired. In that Venice keeps Milan (but as the acting Viceroy for a baby Hapsburg) and limits the Austrian Navy in the Adriatic to a minor role.

My view is that all this diplomatic peace keeping is more 21 century than 18 century and to stay in period more issues need to be decided on the battle field. I am not saying people should fight to the end every time but that it would have been more in period if say Prussia & Spain had fought a battle. Then Prussia could then have said "sorry" with its honour intact from the viewpoint of the period.

Have to admitt that I have in game attempted to agree terms which will apply depending on a Win, Defeat or Draw but at least the attempt was made to keep the look of the 18 century.

Purely from the viewpoint of an outsider looking in I would like to congradulate the Jacobite and Williamite players in G7.....non of these dodgy diplomatic fudges in place of principal! That will only happen if both sides run out of cash.......very in period.

More of the same.
1.  The Emperor's terms to Venice have harden, they must accept a Austrian garrison in Milan and allow Austrian troops to transit to and from the Duchy.  He also thinks Pola and Zengg would be better under Austrian protection.
2.  Bavaria continues to cover all the bases, sending troops to the Reicharmee whilst signing an alliance with the Sun King.
3.  The Bey of Rumelia is so insulted by accusations that he is mobilising his troops, he has decided to mobilise.
4.  Despite praying for peace the Emperor is scouring the Empire and Europe for Reicharmee recruits and mercenaries.
5. The dodgy Doge has gone silent, has he retired from the fray or merely plotting his next nefarious scheme.

Jan 1702 Journal Des Scavans has shown up and its all gone very quite in G9.

But is it a return to "Enlightenment" or just the lull before the storm?

In brief:

1) William of Orange Stadtholder of the UDP who is also King of England & Ireland seems to be taking the Dutch principle of religious toleration to extremes by offering a home to both Irish Catholics bored with the Kings own Protestant Govt in Dublin and to French Anabaptists. One wonders what the good Calvinist burghers of Belfast and Amsterdam will make of "King Billy/Protestant Hero" going all soft on Papists & Anabaptists??????

2) King Louis XIV seems happy for "Anabaptist rubbish to leave France...............and dont come back!". The King's grumphy view of Anabaptist's was probably not helped by spending the month waiting in for the Elector of Bavaria who was 34 miles away waiting for the King.

On a more positive note it seems that Louis XIV has joined the Danzig Pact extending his protection to Sweden, Saxony, the Commonwealth & Prussia-Brandenburg V those nasty Spanish & English bullies who were up to recently threatening to send fleets into the Baltic/Armies into the Empire and crush the Elector of Brandenburg etc for saying what everyone else was thinking about the Queen of Spain & the "miracle baby".

In the event the Boys in the Baltic did not need the Sun King to save them from the nasty Anglo-Spanish-Venetian alliance but by that that stage talks would seem to have been almost complete. But London & Madrid no doubt note with concern the willingness of Louis XIV to wade in on other side.

3) Augustus the Strong of Saxony, King of Poland & Grand Duke of Lithuania etc celebrated the extension of the Danzig Pact by rebuilding his burnt down Agricultural Academy, going to bed with a French Actress & drinking lots of Beer.

4) Duke Victor of Savoy has provided his daughter Maria Luisa the new Duchess of Anjou with a honour guard of 4 battalions. One wonders in the lobbying of the Duke and Duchess of Anjou is having an effect on their doting Grandfather & Father? Could the Anjou claim to Milan, Flanders, Spain etc still have legs?

Probably only if you have doubts about the legitimate parentage of little Pip of Spain.

5) Lord Fong has welcomed a Moghul Envoy with a banquet.

6) The Holy Roman Emperor has been to Church and sent a new envoy to Venice.......seems that Venice & Vienna are now best of friends again..........should the Ottomans be worried?

Apart from that not a lot going on.

Feb 1702 Journal des Scavans has shown up and basically sod all seems to be happening:

1) Showing the wonders of modern French and Bavarian diplomacy and logistics the King of France and the Elector of Bavaria finally managed to both be in the same room at the same time!

2) The Duke of Anjou (2nd in line to the Throne of France & French Claimant to the Throne of Spain) has given the French Stronghold of Casale Monferrato to his father in law the Duke of Savoy.

3) An Austrian Army has marched into Milan to garrison it on behalf of little Philip Hapsburg (The "Miracle" baby and Hapsburg Claimant/King of Spain). Venetians continue to run the place for him and pocket the tax income for Philip.

4) Austrians are also planning a major expansion of Austrian/Imperial Navy in the northern Adriatic (offering to lease Venetian Ports) & the Baltic/North Sea. Lets hope no one appoints a Prussian Admiral to lead the Reichsmarine.

5) The Great Moghul has had a party in Delhi and set off some fireworks.

6) In Peking Fu Manchu was toadying to the boss.

As I said at the top sod all is happening up I live in hope that Johann Kaspar von Stadion (Austrian Envoy to Venice), King Joseph (Heir to the Throne) & Kommodor Tegetthoff will finally start a war of liberation in SE Europe and kick the Ottomans back to Asia. That always seem to liven things up.

One also wonders what will happen The Duke of Anjou and Charles Hapsburg ever finds out the truth about the "Miracle" Baby.

Another take on the the latest turn.
1.  King Billy and the Sun King appear to be ready to swap popish Irish for protestant Frogs.
2.  Turkenlouis marches a Hamburg Army into Milan, flags flying to popular acclaim of the people.  Venice now has Austrian troops on 3 sides.
3.  The Austrian yacht club has went from a coastal defence force to a Kreigmarine?
4.  Hanover considers 1 General sufficient to cover it's Reicharmee commitment rather than the 4000 men the Emperor was after.
5.  Is a Hapsburg nephew being King of Spain, without a shot being fired not a victory for the Emperor.

A few interesting occurances.

1. The French are delivering 4200 men to Dublin via Dutch Merchants.  Is that 4200 troops or 4200 Protestant French settlers to keep the Catholic Irish down?

2.  King Charles XII arrives in Rostock and announces that the Westphalian settlement is under threat from the nefarious popish Bavarians.  The Lion of the North intends to create a North German Protestant alliance, which in theory is against the spirt of the Treaty of Westphalia as well?  Given that King Charles XII is in the Danzig Pact which included the Catholic covert Augustus of Saxony Poland and His Most Catholic Majesty King Louis XIV of France his newfound Protestant zeal is somewhat surprising.
3.  Kindly old King Louis continues his transformation from reactionary terror to liberal peacenik. The King is not content with granting toleration to the Huguenots and has now freed all crown land serfs as well, where will his radical policies end?
4.  The Emperor has finally settled with Venice, Austrian troops have withdrawn from the Republic, but remain in Milan, garrisoning it in the name of his nephew King Phillip of Spain.  Despite the ending of hostilities the Emperor continues to campaign for more troops for the Reicharmee and appears to have added Polish Lancers to his forces.  What the Emperor intend to do with all these troops and his new Kreigmarine remains a mystery.