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Agema Publications

A forum for the disscussion of the Play by Mail games from Agema Publications


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Stuart Bailey
Richard D. Watts
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    G7 - France vs. England

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    Post by count-de-monet Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:26 pm

    It is sad news indeed. I count myself very lucky that I was able to enjoy the French player rather than feel some of the frustrations and perhaps anger that other players were feeling.

    I saw a side to the French player that imo was a positive impact on the game. His letters were interesting and informative as well as offering some helpful insights into how to improve my own position. He doesnt need me to fight his battles on here, and I do this now only because he no longer plays but I read letters that showed a player feeling (rightly or wrongly) more isolated and "bullied" by a ganging up of other players. The ingame persona of the French player developed a more beligerent stance as a result.

    I share the French players wish that whatever course the new England player takes (and it might change again with this news!) he is given a fair chance to establish himself and play the position the way HE wishes to play it.

    I hope the real-life situation sorts itself out quickly and successfully and that perhaps he is able to return to the game sooner rather than later.
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 15 Empty Not A Time For Mourning Or Renting Of Sackcloth

    Post by The Hessian Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:46 pm

    Ok real life has unfortunately intervened and saved my blood pressure but whilst he was maddeningly longwinded in all communications and NOT always perfectly correct as he would have us all believe, I will in a small way miss his contribution to the game. Right thats that over and done with , back to the war! :
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:23 pm

    It's non stop the surprises in this game. What next?

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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:26 pm

    What would be interesting would be if Real Louis rejoins in the future as a different, large, power.
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    Post by The Hessian Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:53 pm

    Crikey France was the biggest and his chum was the second biggest namely Russia.! ottomans would mean him being nice to his provincial governors which might be a task so pass on Ottomans. After that, Ah I know put him in India or China. He could start a war there that would dwarf anything in Europe for numbers anyway and his titles are more gaudy and illustrious than mere King of France. It would also give Europe a break !
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:09 pm

    albreda wrote:What would be interesting would be if Real Louis rejoins in the future as a different, large, power.

    Don't worry - I can't see any chance of me rejoining G7 as a large power or even in a smaller capacity in that game. You'll just have to learn to get on without me.
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:18 pm

    I would always recommend a 'Far East' position Louis, if/when you return and want a different role. Unusual challenges and opportunities that if you want something completely different to a European role.
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    Post by Ardagor Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:50 am

    It is always sad when someone leaves a game, in particular a big and central power like France in the middle of a war. The newspaper have certainly been very interesting reading the last year as Louis steamrolled over England.
    I wonder how long it will be before someone decide to take on the French juggernaut? The strongest position by far in the game needing a large investment of time and money to run with a multitude of possibilities.
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    Post by revvaughan Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:49 am

    I am not in G7, but I am always sad to see a veteran player leaving the game! Hope to see you in G2 in the future!
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    Post by Basileus Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:03 pm

    It is a pity for any player to leave the game, and game 7 has been entertaining so far. In large part that has been due to Louis' style and approach of trying to impose his world view on the rest of us, which made for a playing style like a true Absolute Monarch of the eighteenth century.

    The issue of paying for turns is a problem which faces all of us. There are times when there is a necessity to reduce orders and keep them under control. In hindsight I think that Louis must have been running the Jacobeans as well as France (given the news that there is a new player of England).

    Just like in real life, if a powerful state tries to rule the world, in the end it will be defeated if it builds too many enemies up against it. Louis' fundemental problem was a failure of diplomacy, to convince others that he was right.

    And just to put things into context - eastern France is falling to Imperial Armies. tongue
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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:12 pm

    Stuart Bailey wrote:I would just like to thank the "Real Louis" for all the time and effort he has put into G7 which seems to have made it hugely enjoyable for many and a source of deep frustration for others closer to the Action

    Perhaps when real life allows he save on the Naval and Colonial problems and return to a GDR game as a Austrian?

    In order to fill a huge Louis shaped hole in G7 I suggest the two Jasons apply to Richard to split the position back into the colonial/naval ministry and the Home/Army ministry. Position can not be more than 50 pages of huge detail.

    Couple of small problems like a small war with whole Hapsburg family but nothing too major.

    Thanks for the suggestion Stuart but at this time, I'll have to say 'no', finances make it difficult to commit to a second game...

    ...if i win the lottery however... Wink
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    Post by J Flower Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:39 pm

    Stuart I've an even better idea you buy the lottery ticket(s)for Jason & Jason then we are both more than willing to play in G7. When we win the lottery Maybe with an option to join G8&9 as well.
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    Post by Deacon Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:53 pm


    Given the pace of current games, I'm guessing Richard doesn't have time to start a new game, at least until there are some more drop outs in existing games!

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    Post by J Flower Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:27 pm

    Sorry didn't want to start a stampede for places in G9, I had just heard rumours that it might be on the starting blocks.
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    Post by Basileus Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:07 pm

    woof ! Very Happy
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:24 pm

    Ok .......Its a ferret in leather gear and it barks scratch

    Ref the lottery tickets............sorry lads but I am an insurance underwriter & a student of odds, my principals refuse to let me gamble on such crap odds.

    On the basis that 5 years of the the Real Louis has made France in G7 such a large and complex post that none of the usual suspects want to pick it up (esp if from turn one they are going to get savaged by a rabid Habsburg ferret in leather which thinks its a dog) has anyone seen a game with a split France? And how did it work?

    Ottoman Empire & China always seem to be split. Have also seen Spain and England operate with differnt factions on the same Royal Council ie a Whig & a Tory leader but France always seems to operate as one huge central power. This may be the way Louis XiV wrote things up but we are talking about a council of Frenchmen and French politicans I am sure they never agreed on everything without even a little debate.
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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:54 pm

    I can't see France working as a divided position. It was tried earlier in G7, but failed for a variety of reasons including the way the French Colonies are economically tied in to France with their own strategic development plans. Diplomacy was very limited as no subsidiary player should be free to conduct his own foreign policy which could embarrass France. By the same logic, I had made it clear that I didn't want to expand the colonies until they were financially self-sufficient. This would have taken at least 3 years and a huge investment from France for the FCO to invest. Really left the player with few options to use his own ideas or play the kind of role in the game he was used to.

    If team positions are designed from the outset (as the Spanish positions are), then it is a natural part of the game. I suppose it may also work in more advanced games depending on the relative power balance, but it is always tricky to split any position into self-sufficient parts. Any player could do the exercise and try and split his own position up just to find out how hard it is! There are a lot of very practical issues to be solved including the division of income, recruits, naval and military power. The initial subsidy France had to provide to the FCO was £3-£4M/year, with duplicated costs such as treasury and government running costs adding to inefficiencies. If the FCO had a naval academy, were their developments able to be used by French ships? How were standards (a key part of French planning) maintained? If an FCO ship was attacked by a Spanish pirate then did that automatically trigger war between Spain and France? What happens if one player leaves? Are the positions put back together (at a real world cost), or is one inactive, possibly for a long period of time? There really are a lot of practical issues.

    I tried to get the colonies to the point that in peacetime they would look after themselves. In war any gain in having another player would be cancelled out by the need to divide French forces between those players and co-ordinate plans. I won't go into detail as how this was achieved, but in a way that was the easiest part. Even so, there was always the risk that if 100SoL were to attack Guadeloupe, French forces would have to come to the aid of the FCO so in practice there really are very few benefits in wartime.

    Historically Stuart is right about England and Spain being easier to split. Spanish Viceroys operated independently, and the English Parliamentary party setup always allowed for decentralised power.

    France of Louis XIV was very centralised. Interestingly, Louis XV did experiment with a more decentralised style of government, giving more powers to ministers and being far more tolerant than his grandfather. However, he failed and the experiment was abandoned after about 10 years of dysfunctional government.
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    Post by J Flower Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:35 am

    In G2 there was a split French position for a while. It was alright so long as 1 player had the king of France character & the other was Colonial minister. However when Mainland France was later run by a First Minister differences of opinion began to appear.

    It led to an civil war between the colonies & Mainland France. The whole position was reunited under the control of the Colonial Minister. It has remained this way ever since.
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    Post by count-de-monet Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:34 am

    haha Austria is revealed as a barking mad ferret Very Happy Looks to me like G7 remains in good hands even with the untimely departure of the French player.

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    Post by Guest Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:44 pm

    Couple be worse, could be a Meerkat...or is that Russia? Wink
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    Post by Guest Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:17 pm

    Stuart Bailey wrote:Ottoman Empire & China always seem to be split. Have also seen Spain and England operate with differnt factions on the same Royal Council ie a Whig & a Tory leader but France always seems to operate as one huge central power. This may be the way Louis XiV wrote things up but we are talking about a council of Frenchmen and French politicans I am sure they never agreed on everything without even a little debate.

    I think China is split partly because of its size-the total population for the 5 provinces is (I think) between 130 and 150 million and a recruit base of 160,000 a year...imagine the issues of managing that! affraid


    Last edited by Jason on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by the great unwashed Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:11 pm

    Playability and resulting real cost of expansion is one reason i have as yet never attempted to unify India as The Moghul.
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:44 pm

    the great unwashed wrote:Playability and resulting real cost of expansion is one reason i have as yet never attempted to unify India as The Moghul.

    Ohhh, but imagine a Unified India under your rule...and what it could achieve Wink
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    Post by Deacon Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:39 pm

    Jason wrote:
    the great unwashed wrote:Playability and resulting real cost of expansion is one reason i have as yet never attempted to unify India as The Moghul.

    Ohhh, but imagine a Unified India under your rule...and what it could achieve Wink

    I think at least part of what you'd achieve is turns so expensive you'd need a private endowment to play Smile
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:07 pm

    What is the set up in India generally? Is it three positions? How are they sized? Who owns what?

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