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Agema Publications

A forum for the disscussion of the Play by Mail games from Agema Publications


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Stuart Bailey
Richard D. Watts
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    G7 - France vs. England

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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:06 pm

    Nope. The orders were not disobeyed either.

    Serioulsy, a player not correcting errors made by a none player, outside of the game, is not a signal of anything other than what it is.
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:04 pm

    Sounds like it is something else we will never agree on then Sad
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Deacon Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:57 pm


    I would imagine that Churchill's honour is such that he doesn't want any large scale conflicts because his troops aren't likely to obey him Twisted Evil
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:32 pm

    Due to real life pressures I haven't had time to read my turn fully yet but in all fairness to RJC, he is correct. His forces have not actually attacked the French army in England.

    His forces appear to be trying to encourage French garrisons to withdraw from occupied towns however if they do not then the English forces have not so far engaged in hostilities.

    Quite what is going to happen is a mystery, esp to the new French government as it tries to make sense of everything...
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:37 pm

    Stuart Bailey wrote:Seems to me that the RJC is trying to fight a civil war with the Jacobites without fighting the French.

    But some of his commanders such as Major-General Savage are struggling to work out who is a Jacobite and who is a Frog.

    Can not say I blame them when the Duke of Berwick James II son and uncle to James who would be III is "French" and De Trouin is a "Jacobite."

    I say lets stop messing about .......after say June 1706 class any Frog on English, Scots or Irish soil as a Jacobite Merc and hang the lot of them.

    What if they don't want to be hung? Wink
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Stuart Bailey Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:24 pm

    Jason wrote:
    Stuart Bailey wrote:Seems to me that the RJC is trying to fight a civil war with the Jacobites without fighting the French.

    But some of his commanders such as Major-General Savage are struggling to work out who is a Jacobite and who is a Frog.

    Can not say I blame them when the Duke of Berwick James II son and uncle to James who would be III is "French" and De Trouin is a "Jacobite."

    I say lets stop messing about .......after say June 1706 class any Frog on English, Scots or Irish soil as a Jacobite Merc and hang the lot of them.

    What if they don't want to be hung? Wink

    Answer to the above:

    If French troops in England dont wish to hang as Jacobite Hired Help...........they can leave England.

    or.......they can do the honest thing admit they are Jacobite Lackies and fight............"Simples" Very Happy
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:29 pm

    Stuart Bailey wrote:
    Jason wrote:
    Stuart Bailey wrote:Seems to me that the RJC is trying to fight a civil war with the Jacobites without fighting the French.

    But some of his commanders such as Major-General Savage are struggling to work out who is a Jacobite and who is a Frog.

    Can not say I blame them when the Duke of Berwick James II son and uncle to James who would be III is "French" and De Trouin is a "Jacobite."

    I say lets stop messing about .......after say June 1706 class any Frog on English, Scots or Irish soil as a Jacobite Merc and hang the lot of them.

    What if they don't want to be hung? Wink

    Answer to the above:

    If French troops in England dont wish to hang as Jacobite Hired Help...........they can leave England.

    or.......they can do the honest thing admit they are Jacobite Lackies and fight............"Simples" Very Happy

    I see, we now have meerkats as well as one eyed ferrets Wink just so long as no one invites that go-compare-man... Very Happy
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:48 pm

    It sounds as though France hasn't decided whether to support King James or not? Such a change in policy is not my decision to make, but after 3 years of trying to convince the Hapsburgs to back King James, it would be quite incredible if France decided not to. I think France has enough enemies without creating more of them!

    If France does decide to back KJ then it is a reasonable assumption that French troops in England are not going to leave. It is difficult to argue you are supporting an ally if your troops are handing parts of his realm to the enemy. Consequently, RJC is going to have to attack French troops to get them out of what he considers 'his' towns.

    Stuart has basically reached the same conclusion, though with more style and less logic Smile

    Under the terms of the Treaty, French troops are in England to help King James for as long as he requires them. He clearly does require them and has asked for their help, so if as Stuart suggests RJC is trying to fight a war against King James without fighting France, RJC would seem to be inhabiting a parallel universe. Being beholden in honour to King James is not the same, though, as being Jacobite mercenaries. French troops are nobody's mercenaries, but comrades in honour.

    Whilst I respect the wishes of new players to try and figure out the nuances of the situation in the game between themselves, this seems to be a very simple matter which certain players are trying to complicate in order to justify indefensible positions. If you keep returning to the root of each point, it is quite clear that RJC has chosen the path of an outlaw, murdered his king, and the Catholic world (supported by most of the non Catholic world) has turned on him in horror. Either France is part of that Catholic world or not. It really is as black and white as that, not just to the church, but to French nobles, soldiers and peasants. I know all about fighting difficult positions with my hand tied behind my back, but even I wouldn't attempt to fight blindfolded hopping on one leg when I didn't have to!
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Basileus Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:44 pm

    Old Louis, let the new French King choose his own path. Not least of which in your last act as King of France you made peace with England and declared war on Austria - surely you havent forgot that Shocked
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:47 pm

    Note to self

    In future, don't take over a position in a Glory game where the previous player is in the audience...

    I am starting to regret joining G7, France is a bloody hard enough nation to play, esp when you try and take over a nation in a mess of a war, without being heckled by the previous player.
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:49 pm

    Of all people I never thought I'd see RKL attempting to goad the new French player! Or even allowing his posts to be perceived as such.

    Really disappointed.
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:51 pm

    Jason. Welcome to my world! Lol

    Don't give up though. There's a lot of satisfaction to be had in sorting out positions like these. And it's a good chance to try new things too.

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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:58 pm

    I did joke with Richard when I took on the position that it was likely that within 6 months English and Austrian armies would meet in Paris Very Happy
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Stuart Bailey Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:11 pm

    Jason wrote:I did joke with Richard when I took on the position that it was likely that within 6 months English and Austrian armies would meet in Paris Very Happy

    In all honesty I dont think you need worry about English & Austrian forces meeting in Paris.

    What you need to worry about are the Austrians meeting with the Dutch, Bavarians or Spanish in Paris.
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:14 pm

    Stuart Bailey wrote:
    Jason wrote:I did joke with Richard when I took on the position that it was likely that within 6 months English and Austrian armies would meet in Paris Very Happy

    In all honesty I dont think you need worry about English & Austrian forces meeting in Paris.

    What you need to worry about are the Austrians meeting with the Dutch, Bavarians or Spanish in Paris.

    Sounds like I ought to go and buy a couple more phrase books then
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Deacon Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:53 am


    My expectation that everybody would end up suffering in this mess seems to be being met. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:42 am


    Basileus – I am not stopping the new player for France from choosing his own path. How could I? However, I have been asked to continue to contribute to the forum and that is what I am doing. The only way I can contribute is by pointing out what appear to be inconsistencies and comparing them to history. And yes, I fully recall the reasons why France declared war on Austria, reasons you dismissed. I am quite happy to bring these up again, but somehow I don’t think that would be to your taste.

    Jason – try joining a game of LGDR where there isn’t a previous player in the audience. I had 3 real world years of sniping and anti-French propaganda on the forum which until I joined went unchallenged. Believe me, compared to what I had to put up with, my comments are nothing. Neither am I trying to ‘get even’ by being particularly partisan in my postings. Sometimes I will praise the actions of France, sometimes criticise them; similarly I have recently praised the actions of RJC and criticised the inactions of France. This is precisely what you and others did when you were ‘observing’ the game. No one knows more than I do how difficult it is to play France and I am not intentionally causing you or any other player additional problems. No player should regret taking on a position by comments on the forum, whether by me or anyone else.

    RJC – I am not trying to ‘goad’ anyone. If my comments are taken as such then you are misinterpreting them. Under your various identities, you too have been a regular contributor to the forum, criticizing several players, their postings and their actions. You seem to have taken offence that I have praised your actions, or is it simply that I am posting at all? If so, then I’m sorry you feel like that, but I can only repeat that I have been asked to continue to support the forum and that is what I am doing. You have the right to reply, but if you chose not to use it then that is up to you. You (or rather your current character) have made a number of assertions in the game which are contradictory or simply incorrect, yet you object them being discussed or to being challenged on them by me or anyone. Being challenged is part of the game. As a non-player I am able to challenge more effectively than players which you may feel is unfair. However, before you rejoined game 7 you did consider it fair.

    What the three of you seem to be objecting to the most is that my analysis of previous events has largely been proved right. You may also fear my analysis of current events will prove more incisive than you hope. As a non-player, the ghost of The Real King Louis has no influence on how the game develops: that is down to the GM. As Deacon says …
    Deacon wrote:I guess we'll see how it plays out.

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    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:55 am

    You 'contribute' because someone asked you to?

    And if others would ask you not to?
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:38 am

    The Real John Churchill wrote:You 'contribute' because someone asked you to? And if others would ask you not to?

    The rules relating to the style and content of postings on this forum are set by the moderators. As moderator, it was Kingmaker in one of his posts earlier in this thread who asked that I continue to contribute despite having left the game. Other members also expressed a wish that I continue to play an active part on the forum.

    In recognition of new players I have significantly toned down my posts and adopted a more non-partisan approach.

    If you object to anything I have posted then you have the right of reply or can report your concerns to the moderator as I have done over certain postings in the past. However, your objection to my posting seems to be on the grounds that you disagree with me, rather than because of any posting I have made which breaks the rules of the forum. I have not personally attacked you or attempted a vitriolic campaign against you, quite the reverse! Of course if the majority of players consider that the forum is having a detrimental affect on the game then they should make the case for shutting it down completely and removing all existing posts. In my opinion that would be a shame, but it is the logical conclusion to your suggestion.

    I will not stop contributing simply because those who disagree with me request it as that would be to give in to bullying. However, if the moderator requests that I no longer post to the forum, then of course I will comply with his request.

    I think most contributors will accept that is a perfectly fair position to adopt.
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:47 am

    Why not just rejoin the game?

    Are you joining G9?
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    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:12 am

    For the same reason I left it: lack of real world resources! Until that changes I am unable to join any game, so must be content with being a spectator.
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    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:29 am

    That's a shame.

    Of the two commentators, I do prefer Stuart's write ups though.
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    Post by The Hessian Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:43 pm

    Oh dear still hearing the remnants of the ancien regime.... will it never cease. Vive le Dauphin soon to be the NEW King of France and may his government be lead with the diplomatic delicacy that the previous would not. Bavaria is quite amenable to settle gentlemanly with the Dauphin as he seems to be a complete change on the previous incumbent. Long may he reign. Very Happy
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    Post by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:45 pm

    Nice to know you still care, Hessian Very Happy
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    G7 - France vs. England - Page 31 Empty Re: G7 - France vs. England

    Post by Deacon Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:51 pm

    The Real Louis of France wrote:For the same reason I left it: lack of real world resources! Until that changes I am unable to join any game, so must be content with being a spectator.

    Pick up the papacy that's a position that you could run on 10 pounds a turn if you're careful Very Happy

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