G7 - France vs. England

good grief someone still voting negative to my last message. Unbelievable
nowt as strange as folk

The Real Louis of France wrote:

Deacon - generous to a fault!

I don't think many players would welcome me as the Pope. Imagine the newspapers filled with theological debates, the excommunication of Leopold if he didn't stop attacking France, within no time I would have rebuilt many of the glories of Rome and have made an asset list of at least 10 pages! I could have some fun with the uniforms of the Papal Guard though

Half the game always hates the pope anyway. And think what you could do redecorating the Vatican? And papal bulls about what colours may be worn in war! Think of the power to dictate fashion! The possibilities are endless! Cardinals in red is so last century, pink is the new red!

Deacon wrote:Half the game always hates the pope anyway.

Regrettably true.

Deacon wrote:And think what you could do redecorating the Vatican?

Another very fine point, though I'd have to do something about the plumbing first.

Deacon wrote:And papal bulls about what colours may be worn in war! Think of the power to dictate fashion! The possibilities are endless! Cardinals in red is so last century, pink is the new red!

It does have possibilities. I don't think I could contradict the excellent fashions of France, though. Are secular fashions really any more than vanity, unworthy for the Supreme Pontiff? Ecclesiastical fashions are another matter. We'll bring back the biretta with compulsory pom-pom yet. As for pink, you brought back memories of the wonderful Hepburn/Astaire musical Funny Face and its song "think pink!"

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2omqb_think-pink-funny-face-1956_music

Enjoy!

Stand by for LGDR The Musical where TRKL valiantly aided by King James and the spirit of his martyred father free the world from infestations of ferrets and associated madmen

Jason wrote:Note to self

In future, don't take over a position in a Glory game where the previous player is in the audience...

I am starting to regret joining G7, France is a bloody hard enough nation to play, esp when you try and take over a nation in a mess of a war, without being heckled by the previous player.

Jason,

I actually think its very interesting that you have inherited a position with problems very like those faced by real life French Ministers:

1) Playing China and most other positions you normally get to pick/make your own foes in game. But playing 1700's France the Nine Years War has just ended, you have your pet Jacobites ready to cause problems with the English, and you have had 50 plus years of French Aggression against nearly everyone. Even worse its been 50 years of successful French Aggression which has left Flanders, the Empire, Spain etc sulking over their lost Land, Genoa sulking over its burnt capital, Even Siam and various Indian Tribes have it in for you.

RKL will argue long and hard about how Louis XIV policy in the later part of the C17 was defensive but even he would admitt you have a PR problem and that players entered the game with deep seated convictions that their Characters should be anti French and no more land is going to be given up to the French (RKL claims that a lot of this is actually down to an anti French bias in English source material).

Probably only the Ottomans & Sweden enter the game with so many people with potential inherited grudges.

2) Normally, as the game goes on players forget about their positions starting dislikes or you get players who dont give a damn about past history. This has not happened in G7 for two reasons:

a) The original French player captured the "style" of Louis XIV leaturing, legalistic diplomacy to perfection with the same effect on the English & the Germans. Brilliant role playing .......may be not such good "game" play.

b) The Habsburg family has remained united and anti French from day one..........normally by now in other games Spain would have drifted off to annex Portugal and fall out with England in the process. Or Austria would have turned East or attempted to annex Venice or Bavaria. Instead we have a Emperor who thinks of himself as head of the House of Habsburg & Emperor before he is "Austria" and Spain trying really hard to be Charles the Good to anyone who is not a Pirate, Indian Cattle Thief or French. This has not left that many gaps for French Diplomacy and basically to come out as pro French G7 tends to come over as anti Hapsburg.

RKL in attempting to move the diplomatic log jam has attempted to use a mixture of the valvet glove (compromise over Spain) and the Iron fist (Invasion of England) but in all honesty 1700 -1706 has merely marked a continuation of what went on before.

You now seem to be in the odd position of First Rate Material Position but with major diplomatic problems.......what to do????

And of course you stand in the shadow of glory...............1) Fight & suffer a defeat and "it would never have happened if his dad was still in charge 2) Make peace on less than victorious terms and "Boys a whimp.........his Dad would never have accepted."

Basically unless your new Character turns out to be the G7 answer to Alexander the Great or a Diplomatic Giant he is stuffed.

stuart

Having had the pleasure & honour of playing in Games where Jason has played. I know that diplomacy is a strong point of his.

It may take a while Jason but eventually the position will begin to take on the shape & form that you and your style bring to the Game.

You have taken over the most important central position in the Game, The dominant country in world politics. There is bound to be a transition period between players. That is what is now occuring.

Don't Panic, Everything is going to be alright......well maybe, one day, possiably , hopefully, if your lucky that is.

Hang on somebody disagreed with you being OUT of the game!!!! get the men with the white coats and long straps. The person is obviously Insane....and what is wrong with ferrets I know a lovely one called James.Oops that might be taken out of context...go seahawks

Oooops even worse its ducks in Oregano.

Civilization is one of my all time favorite games. I still play versions of it. So guilty as charged. I do like just building my position.

I think games like this support a lot of different styles of play, and that they'd be a lot less rich if they were only played in one way.

In one game I play a ruler that was incompetent, indecisive, alcoholic etc.
He just wanted to have fun in the harem and matters of state was BORING.
I have not played this character this way, it would have been realistic but rather boring and I would be wide open to attack.

I don't have enough history with Glory to say whether game 7 is really all that different, or just at the stage of the game where much of the activity happens. IE, it is young enough that most of the players are still around, and yet old enough that the game has developed with some conflict. I imagine in 5 years there will be fewer players in game 7, and it will be a less interesting game. My guess is that all games follow this path. Lots of players when they start, lots of interest, and then as conflicts occur and resolve players drop out.

I joined Game 3 in anticipation of Game 8 opening to get my feet wet and it is certainly a less dynamic game than the later games. By 1738, most of the positions are not in play, and the few powers of the world are set in their ways. It is a good environment to get your feet wet, but hardly as dynamic as a game with more players.

Game 8 is yet too young for much to have developed, and an isolationist France that doesn't apparently answer anyone's correspondence makes for a strange game. We'll see if by the time it reaches 1706 if it gets more interesting.

No, I wouldn't blame France for Game 8's status. It certainly is odd, but that's about it.

We've had a few rumbles in the holy roman empire, but nothing approaching war.

The Wako pirates just appeared, but the Chinese were well prepared and sent them running almost immediately.

It is only december 1701 though, so plenty of time to catch up to the craziness of game 7.

I just thought I ought to post something to give you some idea of the character I m playing in G8. none of this effects the game really, I just thought it might be interesting to talk about the individual.

Richard has assigned me the character "Louis de France", the Dauphin. Now, I am not very good on French kings and nobility so had to do some research. Historically he died in 1711, so before his father and never King. The Wiki article on him is interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis,_Grand_Dauphin
as he clearly was not like his father. He seems to be have liberal, generous, willing to compromise and even argue against arrangements that might benefit him though not benefit France or the wider international community.
There seems to have been a feeling that he was not the brightest button in the box though looking at some of his actions, I wonder if he was more lazy intellectually.

He seems to be in awe of his father but it also seems that his opinions did not carry much weight with his father, quite the opposite. He was popular with the people of France. He doesn't seem to have much of a political role, despite being Dauphin, so it is difficult to see how such a character would have reacted to a reallife situation like we have in G7. He does seem to have had a reasonable military career but the thing I found interesting about this part of his life is his visit to soldiers in the inundated trenches under heavy fire to observe the progress of the siege. Clearly a brave man and also perhaps one who did care for those beneath him? That is conjecture of course but he does seem to generous to the people.

So we have a generous, brave man, liked by the people, perhaps not held in the highest regard by his father, who may be willing to look at different paths and be willing to give up personal gain for 'the greater good'. However best not to approach him if you were a wolf!

Thanks, glad you agree with my brief summary Info on him is limited but he does seem to have known his limitations as well.

You're right, he could behave differently as he wasn't king and that does give me a bit more flexibility than you did in playing an in role King Louis.

I think you are right upon Anjou, I suspect being King of Spain didn't help. Unless he was a manic-depressive? Just thinking quickly and off the top of my head, Stephen Fry is a manic-depressive, he does have that pleasant and intelligent side but is countered by the deep depressions and I guess what you might describe as sulks. Though I am always a bit loath to psychoanalyise historical characters...in case someone does it to me

Ref the ongoing debate about members of the Bourbon Family other the Louis XIV can I make the following points:

1) It was the intervention of the Grand Dauphin which stopped France making peace in 1710........basically he pointed out to the French Royal Council that he would be King of France one day (tempting Fate!?) and remember who wanted to "betray" his Son the Duc of Anjou AKA Philip V of Spain of his throne.

Clearly by 1710 the Grand Dauphin commanded a lot of influence since both his father and French Ministers believed he would be King of France sooner rather than later.

2) Anjou seems to have a higher reputation in Spain that France and it seems very clear that he was a manic depressive. Along with Music, Travel and his two outstanding Queens (both Italian) Warfare seems to have helped Philip avoid periods of depression.

It should be noted that while the sensitive, intellectual Bourgoyne dithered and by his failure to co-operate with Vendome (A bit of a Thug and not a great General but a hard fighter........a sort of early Marshal Nay) resulted in French disaster in Flanders. Anjou got on well with both Berwick and Vendome and seems like Vendome to have been another in the get in their faces and fight school.

He suffered a few heavy defeats but at Villaviciosa for instance Philip leading the Franco-Spanish right was the first to attack in the early Afternoon and was still attacking at nightfall.

It should perhaps be noted that French Regiments tactical doctrine in this period was based on attacking and use of cold steel/shock and when forced onto the Defensive and into prolonged fire-fights with Anglo-Dutch-Austrian troops in Flanders and Italy they suffered badly. At Villaviciosa and Almansa French troops and Spanish & Irish troops fighting in the same style were able to attack and won.

Ok so the Allied commanders in Spain were not in the same league as Churchill & Eugene but Anjou would only fight what was in front of him.

3) After the WSS it should be noted that Anjou as King of Spain had terrible relations with the Regent of France - The Duc of Orleans (Louis XIV nephew) and his ambitions in Italy and ambition to become King of France even lead to War and a French Invasion to try and make Philip see sence from a French viewpoint.

Philip abdications of the throne of Spain can be seen either as a sign of his illness or a manover to free him to take the throne of France.

When talking about the mental state of some of the rulers of the Age, It is worth bearing in mind that many were the offspring of marriage alliances from a narrow group of ruling elite, some of the parents having little love for each other. It was unusual for Great qualities to be inherited . The were more influenced by the upbringing they received. A prince was right from the start treated as a special individual.They were put into positions of Authority, it was expected that they had a certain amount of political & military talent.

In public it was never put to the question if he deserved to rule, it was traditional that he rule. As Gods selected. Great things were not expected of them since power & splendor were given to them automatically.

Most rulers simply wanted a continuation of the status quo. To do otherwise would simply upset there priveledged position.

Guys, you really put me to shame: Worrying about my own mental health I wondered about being part of a comment on a game about history where after page 53(!!!) we discuss the mental state of Kings and Emperors whose Lives and demands i cannot begin to understand.

(if the cap fits and all)

It is a tribute to your scholarship and ability to explain the arcane that keeps poor fools like me entertained and willing to admit my errr stupidity.

To you all - Thank you but I think you're mad!