Dropping Games

Sorry folks...hit a bit of a major financial problem due to reduced hours at work (and  cut in hourly rate on top of that so on  a third of previous income) so dropping most games I'm in.  Will stay in G6 and Scramble (as low cost positions, think will be able to afford that) and will stay on the list for G10 as hopefully by time it starts will have found extra work...but alas Prince George will no longer provide entertainment in G2...

I am on the verge of doing exactly the same, but walking away completely. I have tried to keep feelings to myself, but in the Game 10 thread I have expressed some of my concerns about the way the game is going. My post said its up to me to walk away if I dont like it.

The game 8 return has just increased my sense of frustration and I think enough is enough. I will look to confirm my status over the xmas break

Hate to see you step out because I think things were about to just get interesting. Hope things improve at work.

Sorry to hear your frustration.

The only thing I can say about game 8 is that having a really high EH has a pretty amazing impact upon your income!

Deacon wrote:
Sorry to hear your frustration.

The only thing I can say about game 8 is that having a really high EH has a pretty amazing impact upon your income!

Economic Health of 10, new investment of £2.2m (made in January).....trade position compared to last year ?.....MINUS £900k Sometimes things happen in the game world that I simply do not understand.

Sorry to hear of your (quite understandable) loss of heart all round, all going the same way as Game 6. But not much point in parting with money, time and mental investment if all you get back is bizarre frustrations... So far (touch wood) my own bizarrenesses are fairly minor key. You make a very thoughtful ally and other players will feel the loss as I did, I am sure. Go well in everything.

Jim

count-de-monet wrote:

Deacon wrote:
Sorry to hear your frustration.

The only thing I can say about game 8 is that having a really high EH has a pretty amazing impact upon our income!

Economic Health of 10, new investment of £2.2m (made in January).....trade position compared to last year ?.....MINUS £900k  Sometimes things happen in the game world that I simply do not understand.

Is the dissapointing trade figure a simple case of spy action.?

If it is a case of spy activity, then it goes back to my opinion on the way some players prefer to play the game. My position is not at war with any other nation.....so if it is spy activity, its another player playing destructively for what ? I guess for their enjoyment in the game, just not the way I want to play.

It is possible that the trade loss is a result of a spy action, but my first thought would be some sort of trade war by another position. Somebody subsidizing his own trade heavily to break his opponents or possibly you specifically.

You could always ask the traders/advisors. What is the problem? Have buyers stopped buying, is someone else selling cheaper, perhaps below cost? Is any other nations losing money or is it only you and who is pulling the strings.

As for the alliances spanning games my position is that I will happily ally with someone I have been communicationg with in another game. The reason is that I know an trust this person and would be confident of sharing confidential information I am less inclined to reveal to someone I do not know.

The type of relationship I do not like would be "pre-made" alliances with instant communication that are agreed upon before the game even start and closely coordinate their actions. Basically one big position. I know Richard is trying to stop this but it must be difficult.

My reasons for dropping the game would be more because the high number of mistakes in my turn reports lately. I have to go through my turn, particulary the treasury sheet very closely to find the problems. Very annoying, because the result will be standing if I do not spot it immediately. And there is always the chance that is some kind od spy action behind the issue. So far mostly "incompetent" officials.

If it is spy activity. Then it goes back to my point earlier this month. Spy activity is having far too much success.

I do agree with you. That secret spy activity detracts from the fun of the game.

Trade do not appear to be much affected by economic health anyway, my position have been around 3-4 the entire year but I got a very, very nice boost to my trade income. Tripled it just about.

count-de-monet wrote:

Deacon wrote:
Sorry to hear your frustration.

The only thing I can say about game 8 is that having a really high EH has a pretty amazing impact upon your income!

Economic Health of 10, new investment of £2.2m (made in January).....trade position compared to last year ?.....MINUS £900k  Sometimes things happen in the game world that I simply do not understand.

That is really weird.

I would make sure it isn't an error from Richard. My EH 10 got me A LOT.

Only possibility I can see is that the market dropped out for that good? I try to diversify my investments because the return on an investment as I understand it depends in part on how much competition for that good there is.

If everybody invests in slaves, they aren't a good investment.

In Trade once I had it going I would invest heavily in an area, as Russia usually 1 million plus, I usually got about 250.000 to 500,000 back each year . eventually I became the biggest trader in that area. Without knowing who else is investing in that area it is possible that some one may be investing more than you. If you do not invest every year then you risk a chance of your trade in that area stagnating (I do not mean recruits, I mean money). Think of it as trying to sell the same old tat every year to a bored public. New money means more fairs, more products traded and a higher profile of your goods in that area. I would also look historically at what was selling and being bought in that area and use that or invest in that with recruits as well as money.

Ardagor wrote:Trade do not appear to be much affected by economic health anyway, my position have been around 3-4 the entire year but I got a very, very nice boost to my trade income. Tripled it just about.

I think that there are two kinds of trade, international/regional trade, and domestic trade.

You can invest in say, Africa Trade, and your returns will depend a lot on more global factors. Who else is trading in Africa? what is the EH of african realms? etc.

If you invest in manufacturing at home, it will be driven more by your own EH.

I could be wrong, but that's what I believe. As a consequence, if you invested in a lot of international trade, it may be that your EH isn't factoring into your income results as much as you might think it would.

I make sure I diversify my investments so that a fall off in one market doesn't impact me as much.

When I ran the papal states in game three, I misunderstood levant, and closed some missions for a month, I reopened them all the following month and more besides and my income for the year still took a huge hit. Maybe don't have enough trade missions?

Deacon wrote:

Ardagor wrote:Trade do not appear to be much affected by economic health anyway, my position have been around 3-4 the entire year but I got a very, very nice boost to my trade income. Tripled it just about.

When I ran the papal states in game three, I misunderstood levant, and closed some missions for a month, I reopened them all the following month and more besides and my income for the year still took a huge hit.  Maybe don't have enough trade missions?

Yea seen that happen before

jamesbond007 wrote:If it is spy activity. Then it goes back to my point earlier this month. Spy activity is having far too much success.

I do agree with you. That secret spy activity detracts from the fun of the game.

Everybody likes different parts of the game.  Spy actions are as legitimate a game action as armies, investment and every other game action. It isn't fun to get stuck by a spy action, but it isn't fun to lose a war either.

From my experience they are not nearly as easy as some people think they are.

The two things I know from personal experience is bad for trade is removing liners supporting trade and having a deficit in the treasury above the allowed maximum.

Deacon wrote:

jamesbond007 wrote:If it is spy activity. Then it goes back to my point earlier this month. Spy activity is having far too much success.

I do agree with you. That secret spy activity detracts from the fun of the game.

Everybody likes different parts of the game.  Spy actions are as legitimate a game action as armies, investment and every other game action.  It isn't fun to get stuck by a spy action, but it isn't fun to lose a war either.

From my experience they are not nearly as easy as some people think they are.

From my experience. When a spy from Portugal turns, the head of the army from Spain and that leads to King Pedro of Portugal becoming crowned king of Spain that is unrealistic. Especially when it takes only 8 turns for it to happen.

Admittedly I played Spain poorly, but I didn't expect that to happen in under two game years. Especially when it takes a year to raise spies in the first place.

If spies are overthrowing Rulers and ruining trade results so easily, I think Richard gives them too much success. Just my personal opinion.

As I have often said spies are usually over looked in favor of big armies. But if used right can create mayhem. Although I have never heard of this example before. Turning an army commander , yes or a minister.

The morale is make sure you have yours at home watching. I regularly had a couple watching all my ministers and 1 watching the administration personnel. he soon spotted some spending more money than they earned and I discovered they were taking bribes for intel. So I used them to feed false stuff back that or execution!

Richard needs to remember that these army commanders and ministers being turned by spies have famillies in their native country. Yet they often openly revolt. I think Richard gives spies far more success in game than they enjoy in real life.

Isnt spy activity war by another name? I think Glory of Kings started off initially as a war game with a huge amount of historical depth which made players realise that generally war is not an effective way to move forward. A bit like real life.
I believe that one of the prominent theories in politics and economics at the start of the 18th century was Mercantalism at this time which really was an "economic begger thy neighbour" economic policy. If players are using spies to achieve this then they are only playing historically.
I regret any player who drops out, and I am playing in game 8 but I actually dont know what this issue is about. As the Tatars I have been running with an economic health of 4 year on year with hardly no money, but hey.

The issue , which Count De Monet bought up is unrealistic results from spying harming enjoyment. I was making the point that I agree with him.

I understand spying activity during war. What I don't get (perhaps my age) is using spies destructively during peace. I'm not at war but will still undermine someone else. Players can play that way, the rules allow, Richard lows it. I tend to be a more supportive ruler. Posts show that some players think using spies in such a destructive way IS fair game. I don't want to play in that game anymore. My suspicion is it will lead to games collapsing or high turnover of players

When in real life has spies directly and so obviously been responsible for the taking over of nations. Like tiny Portugal did to Spain. When in real life has direct spy work been so successful in hurting a major nations trade revenues.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and in mine spy work in game gets too unrealistic at times. Better and easier to employ a hundred spies than thousands of troops. By the look at things. That for me detracts from the enjoyment and realism.

I agree with Count De Monet players will see the above is the way to go and will implement it on large scales.Too much good, hard work constantly being undone by a few turns of good spy work and it will detract from the games and will cause high numbers of players to drop. Hope that doesn't happen as it will hurt an excellent game.

Richard will make too many spies laughably hard to enforce.

However I have found that ppl who use spies have no real idea and tend to use them to do things that in the 21st century are acceptable are not in the 17th. Therefore they fail most of the time.

Using spies is like a brain surgeon they need a certain skill, not brute force. Most players will do the route as follows:

create spy in country X
spy to to steal army lists
spy gets caught

repeat.....