Suggestion req. Game and position to join

J Flower wrote:Malacca you can develop, just be aware you need dredgers as the access to the Sea via the river is silted up.

VOIC Is what you want it to be, Maybe give it a Monopoly on Far East Spice Trade & channel investments through it, Have in G 10 issued shares in the company to help raise money to invest in trade. You can probably view VOIC as a fancy name for trade investment, or if you wish you can create a more in depth position within a position.

Enjoy UDP, its certainly a challenge.

Will send you an order from the Bavarian Admiralty in G 8  

Nexus06 wrote:

J Flower wrote:Malacca you can develop, just be aware you need dredgers as the access to the Sea via the river is silted up.

VOIC Is what you want it to be, Maybe give it a Monopoly on Far East Spice Trade & channel investments through it, Have in G 10 issued shares in the company to help raise money to invest in trade. You can probably view VOIC as a fancy name for trade investment, or if you wish you can create a more in depth position within a position.

Enjoy UDP, its certainly a challenge.

Will send you an order from the Bavarian Admiralty in G 8  

Thanks JF

Richard kindly provided some useful info. Voc is actually a game position, so UDP could be a tag team position. Territories are property of Dutch government who can invest in structures, etc. And also VOC has the same faculty (inscludong troops etc.).

Will need to understand how to not challenge their profitability with trade investments, but I think udp historically got it’s income from Central Europe & Baltic trade mainly.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Ardagor wrote:A East India trade fleet was trying to return home with 11 million gulden worth of cargo in 1665, they sailed around England to join up with de Ruyters fleet that was on its way home after attacking English colonies in America but missed them and had to go home alone, eventually sailing into Bergen harbour as Denmark was neutral in the war. The English fleet looking for de Ruyters could not find him either, so decided to attack the trade fleet instead.

So the English asked the Danish to force the Dutch out of Bergen into the waiting English fleet and they would split the loot. The Danish slice would be half the yearly income of the Danish state so the king was very, very tempted by this. He was not prepared to enter a conflict with the Dutch however so proposed that the Danish forces would simply stand down, being "neutral" allowing the stronger English fleet to capture the Dutch fleet. A Danish messenger was sent to Bergen to inform the commander that he should not get involved in the battle and another messenger was on its way to the English informing them that they should wait with the attack until the Norwegian defenders stood down. The messenger to Bergen did not get there in time and he message to the English was intercepted by a Dutch agent.

So the English demanded the Dutch fleet, the Norwegian refused. The English attacked and a short fierce battle was fought before the English fleet was forced to retreat with heavy losses.

The Danish king was not a happy man, the English was mad at him, the Dutch was mad at him and not an ounce treasure to show for it.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Ardagor wrote:A East India trade fleet was trying to return home with 11 million gulden worth of cargo in 1665, they sailed around England to join up with de Ruyters fleet that was on its way home after attacking English colonies in America but missed them and had to go home alone, eventually sailing into Bergen harbour as Denmark was neutral in the war. The English fleet looking for de Ruyters could not find him either, so decided to attack the trade fleet instead.

So the English asked the Danish to force the Dutch out of Bergen into the waiting English fleet and they would split the loot. The Danish slice would be half the yearly income of the Danish state so the king was very, very tempted by this. He was not prepared to enter a conflict with the Dutch however so proposed that the Danish forces would simply stand down, being "neutral" allowing the stronger English fleet to capture the Dutch fleet. A Danish messenger was sent to Bergen to inform the commander that he should not get involved in the battle and another messenger was on its way to the English informing them that they should wait with the attack until the Norwegian defenders stood down. The messenger to Bergen did not get there in time and he message to the English was intercepted by a Dutch agent.

So the English demanded the Dutch fleet, the Norwegian refused. The English attacked and a short fierce battle was fought before the English fleet was forced to retreat with heavy losses.

The Danish king was not a happy man, the English was mad at him, the Dutch was mad at him and not an ounce treasure to show for it.

Bergen actually was even worse that above from a English and Danish point of view.

The Ten Dutch East Indiamen in Bergen not only carried the VOIC cargo shown on the manifest and declared to Amersterdam market marine underwriters but a unknown fortune in "private trade" which was strictly against the rules but everyone did it anyway.

Plus the Indiamen were not alone for when war broke out in 1665 as well as the VOIC convoy and de Ruyters squadron trying to get home (from North American waters were he had been sent to check if anything could be done about English conversion of New Amsterdam into New York and get in some pay back) but also fourty ships of the Smyrna Convoy (Dutch Levant Trade) and many others from the Spanish, Portuguese and Biscayan trades.

Faced with the English Channel turning into a death trap these ships tried to get home via the North Sea route only for the English Victory at Lowestoft to leave that route highly dangerous and them hunted by most of the English Navy.

Much as it would have been nice for the English to send de Ruyter to the bottom of the north sea I am fairly sure that the
No 1 target of a cash strapped English Governent and Navy was not de Ruyter but the East Indiamen, followed by the the Smyrna ships, followed by the Biscay Traders.  Basically Dutch Warship V Piles of costly spices, gleaming jewels, fine cloth, wines etc is a no contest!......the English had shattered the Dutch Fleet at Lowestoft and wanted the loot.

Probably something to do with standing orders but the Ten East Indiamen and 50-60 other Dutch Merchant ships made for Burgen were they missed de-Ruyter who arrived before them then sailed for Holland still looking for his missing Convoys.  But they were found by the English who had done a deal with King Frederik... and then it then all went wrong  

The defence mounted by Commandeur Pieter De Bitter of the VOIC of the archored merchantmen using six big East Indian men (with 50-60 guns each) to block the passage and pouring extra guns and men into the Danish Forts should be given a lot of credit but the English were united in blameing the "False Dane" or that "Blockhead" as Sandich called King of Denmarck for the repulsed attack.

The Kings man on the spot General Claus von Allefeldt proved just as slippery but after playing fast and loose with everyone did manage to keep the guns and some goods the Dutch Captains had landed as a contribution towards the 100,000 Thalers he was now claiming from the Dutch for helping to "Protect" them.  Then de Ruyter who had made it home having picked up 19 merchantmen and only six days supplies left returned with a Dutch Fleet and all Allefeldt got was a flowery letter of thanks rather than 100,000 Thalers.

The importance of the Burgen screw up is show by later events.  As de Ruyter fought storms and and the English attacks to get the merchantmen home from Bergen 13 merchantmen inc the Phoenix and the Slot Hooningen 2 of the VOIC fleet from the East were taken by the English.  Even with a lot of private plundering going on the value of the captured Cargo was estimated at £400,000.

Since for the second year of the war Parliament only voted an additional aid of £1,250,000 to the King and a lot of that was never paid due to the Plague and the Great Fire of London it can be seen just how key it would have been to Stuart Finances if the other 50-60 merchant ships including the other eight VOIC East Indiamen from the East had been taken at Bergen.

Its even possible that the record for the greatest ever amount of loot taken at sea would now be English rather than Dutch......but it was sadly lost due to the perfidious double dealing Danes:(