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Stuart Bailey
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Post by Stuart Bailey Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:32 am

Initial estimates to rebuild Roma stock of housing and commercial property are between 73,000,000 (rebuild in traditional slum standard with re-used material etc) to 109,500,000 Dinarri (using new bricks and with some semi decent fire regulations inc fire breaks, buckets, limit of number of stories etc). These rough estimates have yet to be confirmed by he builders guild (Agema) and do not include replacement of the Public Buildings like Temples, Nero Golden House and the Circus Maximius which the Emperor will probably want to do himself.

After first turn the list of honourable Romans who have donated funds or invested to help the rebuilding of Rome seems to look like:

5M Dinarri Senator Pomponius
3M Dinarri Cestius Gallus (legate of Syria)
1.2M Dinarri Marcus Ulpus Trajan (Proconsul of Bactica)
1.0M Dinari Titus Flavius Vespasian (Proconsul of Africa)
250,000 Dinarri Aulus Vitellius (Germania)
50,000 Dinarri Lucius Ferreolius (who he?)

So only about another 100M to go! Assume a lot of Senators may have been holding back worried that the Emperor and Senators might start to think them a flash git or stingy. Think the above would seem to indicate somewhere around the 1,000,000 Dinarri gift from Titus Vespasian is about right for a good patriotic Roman who is not trying to win any Elections.

The good news is that the above is massed on 50,000 men earning 1 Dinarri a day (average labour wage) for two years plus materials. With festivals etc make that three years so good Romans still have plenty of time find and give lots of additional funds.

This is the approach adopted my Marcus Aponius Saturninus who has promised to secure a new silver mine to help rebuild Rome (if he can only borrow ten ships to cross the Danube). The German Armies also seem to think the same as the Danube Troops and if Rome is going to be rebuilt "Donations" from foreignors will be required as is only good and traditional.

The oddity was the lack of any donations from Egypt, indeed the richest province in the whole Empire seemed more interested in getting the Emperor to pay for their new light house etc...........think they have been breathing too much incence or something by the banks of the Nile! Since no way does their light house take priority over the Circuis Maximus or the Golden House!

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Post by Guest Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:50 pm

The Rome Rebuilding Fund B0511a10

I certainly am. This game is showing real promise...
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Post by Deacon Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:33 pm

Since graft is so common in Rome, some of us might be considering how to ensure that our gifts to Rome end up rebuilding her and not lining someone's pockets while the calls for donations continue....

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Post by Stuart Bailey Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:52 pm

Deacon wrote:Since graft is so common in Rome, some of us might be considering how to ensure that our gifts to Rome end up rebuilding her and not lining someone's pockets while the calls for donations continue....


I was shocked to read that graft existed on Roman building sites even in 65 AD surely we have laws against that type of thing:shock:

Mind you I am starting to wonder if my donation is ever going to arrive since as riders dashed from Germany with cash and ships raced to Italy with following winds form the East by ship is becalmed in the Western Med.

May have to basically establish inter temple banking just to make sure a few builders get paid. Also develop marine re-insurance so that a single ship wreck does not sink the whole Gades insurance market.

Marine quote of 15% confirmed that getting on ships in a game run by Agema is down right unhealthy for your character since Richards underriting would seem to imply that one in seven voyages are going to going to go glug and that is a merchant ship not a more fragile war galley made top heavy with weapons! Oh my gods, great Neptune protect your humble servant Trajan. This is worse than the Russian Navy in Glori du Roi !

Have come up with three possibles to stop characters having their cash donations pinched by the fathers of the fathers of the Mafia:

a) Give it direct to the Emperor - but he will probably spend it all on the rebuilding of the Palantine and his (in)famous Golden House.

b) Get quote from Agema and fund whole of a specific building project like the Circuis Maximus yourself even if a chunk goes in graft it just feels part of general building costs.

c) Use influence or have an agent/freeman on the spot so while they may take a cut and a lot of the credit at least you do not spend 1M denarri on a 9 storey block of flats so badly built it falls over in first high wind.

All in all think I agree with Decaon...... rebuilding Rome is starting to look a lot more dodgy than beating up a few Barbarians! Think my character might start sending bricks rather than cash having found out his wife oned a lot of clay mines in Northern Italy. Clearly a marriage bad in Heaven a Olive/Wine grower marries heiress of an Amphora magnate.

The only thing I would say is that any character found to be pinching cash from the rebuilding of Rome fund is going to be in so much trouble he may have to go and hide out with the Huns, Picts or the weird Swedish Witches.

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Post by Regor Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:53 am

Stuart Bailey wrote:Initial estimates to rebuild Roma stock of housing and commercial property are between 73,000,000 (rebuild in traditional slum standard with re-used material etc) to 109,500,000 Dinarri (using new bricks and with some semi decent fire regulations inc fire breaks, buckets, limit of number of stories etc). These rough estimates have yet to be confirmed by he builders guild (Agema) and do not include replacement of the Public Buildings like Temples, Nero Golden House and the Circus Maximius which the Emperor will probably want to do himself.

After first turn the list of honourable Romans who have donated funds or invested to help the rebuilding of Rome seems to look like:

5M Dinarri Senator Pomponius
3M Dinarri Cestius Gallus (legate of Syria)
1.2M Dinarri Marcus Ulpus Trajan (Proconsul of Bactica)
1.0M Dinari Titus Flavius Vespasian (Proconsul of Africa)
250,000 Dinarri Aulus Vitellius (Germania)
50,000 Dinarri Lucius Ferreolius (who he?)

So only about another 100M to go! Assume a lot of Senators may have been holding back worried that the Emperor and Senators might start to think them a flash git or stingy. Think the above would seem to indicate somewhere around the 1,000,000 Dinarri gift from Titus Vespasian is about right for a good patriotic Roman who is not trying to win any Elections.

The good news is that the above is massed on 50,000 men earning 1 Dinarri a day (average labour wage) for two years plus materials. With festivals etc make that three years so good Romans still have plenty of time find and give lots of additional funds.

This is the approach adopted my Marcus Aponius Saturninus who has promised to secure a new silver mine to help rebuild Rome (if he can only borrow ten ships to cross the Danube). The German Armies also seem to think the same as the Danube Troops and if Rome is going to be rebuilt "Donations" from foreignors will be required as is only good and traditional.

The oddity was the lack of any donations from Egypt, indeed the richest province in the whole Empire seemed more interested in getting the Emperor to pay for their new light house etc...........think they have been breathing too much incence or something by the banks of the Nile! Since no way does their light house take priority over the Circuis Maximus or the Golden House!
. I think, Stuart, that some players are looking to see how the donoations came in and hoped the Emperor would forget the Praetorian call for cash. I was hoping he’d forget! 😉
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Post by Regor Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:53 am

. I think, Stuart, that some players are looking to see how the donoations came in and hoped the Emperor would forget the Praetorian call for cash. I was hoping he’d forget! 😉
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Post by Stuart Bailey Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:18 pm

Regor wrote:. I think, Stuart, that some players are looking to see how the donoations came in and hoped the Emperor would forget the Praetorian call for cash. I was hoping he’d forget! 😉

The Gods of Rome plus its Senate and People will no doubt note who have displayed proper Roman Virtue in the face of the disaster which has hit the eternal city and its people - and will bless and respect man like the Emperor Nero, Senator Pomponius, Cestius Gallus, Marcus Ulpus Trajan, Titus Flavius Vespasian and Aulus Vitellius.

As for skinflints and tightwads who would leave the people camping in the ruins and its Temples black with smoke stain's. Probably best if they do not stand in an elections or stand on any hill tops in thunder storms.

Do not know who your character is but in political terms not being seen to do his bit after the fire is basically walking round with a sign which says "kick me" on it & if he is a military commander I hope all his sacred chickens are so off their food that they starve to death!

Less so in Imperial days but under the Kings and the early Republic what mattered was a man's reputation rather than his wealth so even if your character has not got friends and clients in Alaxandria or the wealthy east being generous with a little still counts for a lot with the voters and the plebs. Who are the same people as the ones standing near your character on the battlefield with a lot of very sharp heavy javalins.

Now how much can we put you down for? And how did you you want your gift spent?

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Post by Regor Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:19 pm

Oh look at the sun dial, is that the time 😂

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Post by Stuart Bailey Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:16 pm

Regor wrote:Oh look at the sun dial, is that the time 😂

Since Regor character is in a rush to get to the forum........I will just but him down for 3m Dinarri then? 1/2 for the Imperial "restoration" of the Palantine and 1/2 for the Circus Maximus.

After such a massive and heavy hint on turn one. I do wonder if character's who just ignore it will now gain extra goes on the R.Watts wheel of Imperial disfavour - round and round she goes were she stops nobody knows.

Until finally someone cracks and either revolts or tries to put a knife into the Emperor and it all kicks off big time.

Other question is when it does kick off and characters have to make appeals to the Legions what will matter more a) A good reputation as a citizen of Rome or b) Having the extra cash stashed away?

Could we even see a split between a group who view themselves as "Loyal Roman's and Men of Honour" and those who view the giving of donations as evidence that the givers were lackeys of a disgraced and fallen Government and as such should be swept away?scratch

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Post by Regor Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:57 am

I think it goes even deeper. We are just learning about positions, glory and opportunity. In character I am writing in the hope influential people will work together to ensure Rome (is rebuilt and) civilises even more of the world. Let future generations ask, “ What did the Romans do for us?” But if we Romans ensure we are always seen as strong, fearless, cooperative and intelligent leaders we’ll have time for politics and recreation. Let’s hope the Emperor agrees?
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Post by Stuart Bailey Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:10 pm

Have been looking at Roman Wages and possible costs to rebuild Rome.

Ceasar doubled pay of his legionaries to 225 denarii a year (in theory paid in three instalments Jan - May - Sept but it could be late so we read of Titus having a pause in the Siege of Jerusalem to have a pay perade in June) and this rate remained the same to the end of the first century AD when Domitian increased it to 300 denarii by adding a 4th pay day.

Prior to Ceasar putting up the pay rate the theory was that Legionaries were just doing their civic duty and their main income was from their farms etc with payments just to cover additional costs.

Accounts which must be open to doubt when covering a huge period of time and troops of different types from many different area's indicate that under Augustus the Praetorians got double the pay of a legionary ie 450 denarii.  A Roman Cavalryman 262.5 denarii, Auxilia Cavalry same as a Ligionary and Auxilia Infantry 187.5 denarii.

As the Army was fond of pointing out their pay was not great and esp in big cities like Rome or Alexandria even unskilled labour could be paid more. With 1 denarii per day being a normal rate (though it should be noted the value of the denarii could vary).

So using 1 denarii a day for labour does not seem unreasonable when working out building costs.  The killer is material costs, how much extra did very skilled labour earn and after the great fire would building material costs go up sharply due to demand?

Some new build costs we have are not much help in working out rebuild costs after fire as they includes the land cost.  Which everyone agrees was sky high in Rome (think central London V say Scots Highlands) and reason for equally large rents in Rome.  Nero grabbing formerly private land to build his Golden House after the fire made him very unpopular not least because land in Rome was so rare and valuable.

In case anyone is thinking poor troops they have not had a pay rise for a hundred years and earn less than a unskilled builder.  It should be pointed out the due to Holy Festivals when they could not work by law, sick days and days were no one emplyed them builders and other Roman workers might not work much more than 225 days a year.  

In addition the troops paid fixed costs also not changed for over 100 years for their food, clothing etc and had many incidental benefits.  Such as being left money in the wills of Emperor's, Getting paid a bonus when a new Emperor came to the throne, Plunder, and last but not least as a de-facto Army of occupation across much of the Empire what we would view as "Graft" but seems to have been viewed as common and normal with landowners recording payments to troops/officials as a matter of course in places like Eqypt for various "services".  Though no doubt much of this went to senior ranks.

Actually the wealth of the Senators and their class does seem truely remarkable compared to the pay of the troops and lower orders.  Seems that when Augustus Empress (who rarely for a Roman Woman had fiscal independance) passed away some years after him amongst her personal benquests was 50m Denarii to the character who in game is now Gov of Hispania.  And the shock was not that anyone even had 50,000,000m Denarii but that her son and executor of her will the then Emperor Tiberious was too grasping to honour his mums will.

In game this is well into the past but not getting paid a bequest of that size has got to rankle a lot.


Last edited by Stuart Bailey on Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Post by Johntindall Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:19 pm

Very impressive analysis, Stuart. Well done and well written

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Post by Johntindall Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:07 am

Stuart - in 2014 my wife and I visited what could have been your character's wife's amphorae factory in Narbonne, perhaps? MUSEE DES POTIERS GALLO-ROMAINS AMPHORALIS
Allée des potiers, 11590 SALLELES-D'AUDE Very impressive.

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Post by Stuart Bailey Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:28 pm

Johntindall wrote:Stuart - in 2014 my wife and I visited what could have been your character's wife's amphorae factory in Narbonne, perhaps? MUSEE DES POTIERS GALLO-ROMAINS AMPHORALIS
Allée des potiers, 11590 SALLELES-D'AUDE    Very impressive.

Not sure if anyone else has been finding this problem but my characters family seem to have only used a couple of male names and a couple of female names in about 300 years which does cause the odd problem when a character has exactly the same name as his son, his father and probably his Grandfather!

However it does seem to be the case that the Trajan who became Emperor (about 40 plus years after the game) was left valuable clay fields in Northern Italy (sadly not Narbonne) by his mother who was a wealthy noblewoman from that area.

Apart from who is married nothing much else is known about Trajan mother or her clay fields. Sadly the only way a Roman Woman seems to get mentioned in accounts of the period is if she did something scandolous in which case various writters are all over her. So either Trajan mother was the perfect wife and mother or like with quite a few other noble roman ladies people were too scared to say anything about them which might imply that they were anything other than perfect wives and mothers.

Assume clay is just clay and can be used to make bricks, tiles or amphorae. So in RIB have put in the Noble Lady has 200,000 Dinerii into making bricks and tiles to help rebuild Rome. Would add that these are standard cost and anyone who says the Trajan junior mum took advantage of the Great Fire to "profiteer" is likely to be in deep trouble in in about 40 years time.

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Post by Stuart Bailey Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:12 pm

Trying to figure out which Roman Officials would be responsible for rebuilding of Rome. Not easy since the power and influence of many posts varied over time and with the holder but I am working on the following basis:

Nero - holding power as Dictator (for life rather than just period of Crisis as under Republic), Senior Consul and Pontifex Maximus can basically do anything he wants but he is a busy man in between is Lyre and Chariot practice current building efforts are currently limited to the rebuilding of the Palantine and his (in)famous Golden House taking up most of one of Rome seven hills.

In theory players with enough influence might be able to get Nero to re-build particular buildings such as my character is lobbying hard for some Imperial help to rebuild the Circus so his beloved Chariot racing can start again. Which has got to be good for the economic recovery of Rome and its morale.

Players might also point out to the Emperor that he has tens of thousands of men on the Imperial pay roll with at least some building skills in the Praetorian Guard and in the Navy who can be employed to help rebuild Rome. The problem with this is that thousands of armed men may re-call it was your character who dragged them off the beach at Naples and nice cumfortable Palace posting to work on a building site. Pay the navy enough and they may be ok about this but the famously snotty Praetorian's?

Other than Nero the other magistrates who would seem have a say are:

- The Prefect of the City of Roman who is in charge of Law and Order in the City inc building and fire regulations - currently in post is Vespasian brother Sabinus.

- The x4 Aediles, these magistrates supervise and maintain the public places of the city - Streets, baths, sewers, market places and temples. They are also in charge of the grain supply and the public games.

- x2 (of 20) Quaestors who remain in Rome attached to the state Treasury in the Temple of Sarurn.

- x2 Censors a office very important under the Republic but which declined in importance under the Empire. As well as running the censuses which judged peoples class, tax liability etc these magestrates were responsible for civic morals and the management of public finances though much of this later role had been taken over by Imperial freedmen and tax farmers.

Interestingly the stipend/budget for these posts were all laughably small, so to do the job any post holder was forced to either spend a lot of his own money, borrow from friends and ralatives or take bribes.

So basically if your faction in Rome is Burning wants to help re-build Rome but not see its money vanish into a money pit (think fathers of the fathers of the Mafia running the re-building) plus claim the Glory. My theory is one of your faction or a close ally needs to get into one of the above positions and then you can have the fun of spending your own money!

On plus side with half of Rome public places a total wreck the number of people with the money and ambition to want to be a Aedile for instance pay be rather lower than normal.

But esp for players without massive armies think these non military posts add an interesting twist to the game. Also if/when a general does go into revolt think it could bring out a interesting historic problem for any General thinking of crossing the Ribicon. Basically the troops will follow a hugely popular, sucessful and popular general like Sulla, Marius, Pompey or Julius even against the legitamate Government and Senate. But how popular, sucessful and popular is your General?

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Post by Johntindall Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:59 am

Insightful and impressive post as usual, Stuart. But how on earth did you figure out that Vespasian’s brother is the urban prefect?
That is REALLY good research and analysis.

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Post by Stuart Bailey Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:40 pm

Johntindall wrote:Insightful and impressive post as usual, Stuart. But how on earth did you figure out that Vespasian’s brother is the urban prefect?
That is REALLY good research and analysis.

It was printed in the game newspaper when the Germans sent some cash to help rebuild Rome.

The historic character was urban prefect in 69 AD when he was killed by troops loyal to Vitellius the game character who sent him the money. Aware that Sabinus held the office on various occassions prior to 69 AD but not sure which years exactly.

However, in game as its now in paper and in-game elections/re-elections are probably not going to happen unless someone uses influence to get Sabinus repaced think its fair to say that at least one fairly honest bloke is doing his best to rebuild Rome. Fact is it seems a fairly crap job being urban prefect at any time (just behind being posted to Judea or the Black Sea) but under Nero and with 65% of city a ruin it must be more horrible than normal so sane NPC's probably do not want the job.

After my character pinned his colours of the mast of the Blue's think he had better try and get a friendly senator made one of the x4 Aediles so we can get the Circuis repaired and some Games on. Then end up totally gutted when venue is almost ready and someone invades Rome with their Legions and the work goes up in Flames.

First Emperor assassinated by upset Sports fans?

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Post by Regor Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:19 pm

Its all a matter of timing. My character is up for a cooperative approach to rebuilding and expanding the empire.

There is plenty of action/diplomacy and toadying to go round!
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Post by Deacon Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:53 pm


You know how slow things move in Glory? Well, this is slower still.

Things will play out in Richard time.

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Post by Stuart Bailey Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:03 pm

Deacon wrote:
You know how slow things move in Glory? Well, this is slower still.

Things will play out in Richard time.


With Aprilis 818 issue of AD Infinitium and some better conditions (everywhere apart from Britannia) we actually seem to be have decided on a Plan(s) to rebuild Rome:

Plan A) The Emperor has declared war on the Parthians (now to be called vile Parthians in all posts).....In theory the loot of Ctesiphon and Seleucia should fund the rebuilding of Rome with some left over to build extra golden statues of Nero playing his lyre, Nero in his chariot, Nero as the avitar of Apollo etc all round the Circuis Maximus.

- The Gov of Syria who has been very vocal of the Parthian threat has been given a year and a large chunk of the Roman Army to sort out this little job.

- Taking no chances the Gov of Syria this month sacrificed no less than 100 white goats......fortunately the Omens for war with Parthia are really good.......nothing can go wrong, cake walk, should all be over by the Ides of March 819. Very Happy

Plan B) Just in case over heads in the Parthian War are higher than expected or loot is less all 600 senators to cough up between 50,000 and 100,000 Denarii towards the rebuilding. Plus as a favour to his old Tutor and his Chariot racing cronies in Iberia the Emperor has said find me 400 men "worthy of the honour" and I will make them Senators and extend Roman Citizenship to the four Iberian Provinces. A man worthy of the honour in this case meaning someone who gives 100,000 Denarii to the Rome rebuilding fund.

This plan will cut down Imperial Paper Work but is probably going to lead to pleading from other "civilized" provinces and even individuals that they should be allowed to contribute to the 400 new Senators. Something Nero is likely to look with favour on as he seems taken with the idea that "All the World is Rome and he is Rome".

It also has the added advantage of giving Senator Claudius and his small minded Italian lobby an attack of the vapours! Claudius plan to ban all "foreigners" from Rome and been torn to bits mostly by the Iberian and North African lobbies who pointed out with deadly effect that the Claudius plan to ban all foreigners would cause food riots and would also mean that Nero would have to throw out his favourite Greek actors and other artists!

However, as the Gods are clearly annoyed about something or someone and someone has to be held responsible for the Fire and the anger of the Gods. Nero has banned Persian Magi (and other Parthians) and Christians from Rome unless they are slaves or captives. With the Emperor adopting a wider view of Rome does this ban now means Christians and Magi are banned form the city of Rome or the whole Roman Empire unless they are Slaves?.......clearly one for the lawayers here. Jews in general were considered for the ban but avoided this by making donations to the re-building fund.

Plan C) Reduce the number of people in Rome and have some proper fire and building regulations. By sending out "colonists" to Syria, Dalmatia etc, etc this reduces the number of new buildings needed. Well not new buildings exactly more like the number of storey's and allow some fire breaks. In theory if Rome can send a lot of its poor plebs elsewhere this should in theory mean the capital smells a lot nicer and reduce the chance of it burning down again.

Plan D) Invade other places to obtain Slaves for sale and building workers seems to be confused, called off or on hold:

- In Britannia the legate seems to be making trade and peace agreements with King Vellocatus and King Calgacus of the
Caledoni, rather than getting our Eagle back and gathering slaves. But he is also bust adding a fourth Legion to the forces in Britannia is this to invade Hiberia perhaps?

- Rhine seems oddly quite with the Legions employed building markets for the natives and exporting cattle across the Rhine. Guess the new markets could used to buy cheap slaves to help re-build Rome?

- North Africa tribes have vanished after raids and probably do not know much about building work anyway so that one seems to be cancelled.

- Big mystery is what the hell is going on in Moesia. Where Legate Marcus Aponius Saturninus is entertaining a son of the King of Dacia and a mounted Dacian War Band while in other parts of Moesia other Dacian War Bands are ripping the province to bits and have enslaved thousands. Either someone's orders have got really jumbled up or the Dacians are trying out a form of diplomacy commonly called "Black Mail".......basically one lines of "look how nasty it can get......but for a small fee you can get on with your was against Parthia without worrying about a 2nd campaign." Might work on a Legate who wants to be marching East to Glory. But its probably not going to go down very well in Rome or with the Emperor.

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Post by jamesbond007 Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:14 pm

Deacon wrote:
You know how slow things move in Glory? Well, this is slower still.

Things will play out in Richard time.


I bought the rules and maps. Secured a position. Decided not to join the game though, because i got the feel that the game would be very slow.

To speed games up, you need to start from a more advanced starting point in my mind. I would like to see glory start with an extra 5 million pounds each and 100,000 recruits to play with on turn one. As well as the usual money and recruits. The first two or even three years of glory are wasted getting to a position you could get to on turn one. In my opinion.
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Post by Stuart Bailey Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:17 pm

jamesbond007 wrote:
Deacon wrote:
You know how slow things move in Glory? Well, this is slower still.

Things will play out in Richard time.


I bought the rules and maps. Secured a position. Decided not to join the game though, because i got the feel that the game would be very slow.

To speed games up, you need to start from a more advanced starting point in my mind. I would like to see glory start with an extra 5 million pounds each and 100,000 recruits to play with on turn one. As well as the usual money and recruits. The first two or even three  years of glory are wasted getting to a position you could get to on turn one. In my opinion.

Think just adding £5m and 100,000 recruits to existing positions would not be very historic and would not speed the game up since if every position has a huge Army and an over-flowing treasury it will take for ever to win even a small military victory.  Do not see much difference between two armies of 50,000 fighting each other compared too a battle between two armies of 150,000.  Apart from 150,00 Danes or  Scots may look a bit odd and over the top.  But perhaps some players would like option of cash/recruits instead of fixed Army/Navy combined with option to "spend" the cash/recruits on Army/Navy of own design.  Which we mean players do not spend ages  building engineer and other units they think are "missing" from their original battle line up.

What I think would actually speed things up would be:

a) If positions started with a number of already well and excellently trained units........seems a bit odd starting a game were the Flag Ship of the Royal Navy or the French Guards have to spend a year drilling to bring them up to expected level.  

b) Replace Fortress Cannon with Garrison unit - mix of gunners, engineers and infantry (normally duty done by veterans in last years of service) as per LAK that would save a lot of messing around.

c) Have a cap on number of number a position can field unless new territory gained as per Scrabble.  This would avoid the giant unhistoric armies/navies seen and once like Fred the Great are start of 7 years war with fully trained max size army players might be forced to get on with things.

I notice RIP also has a effective cap on number of troops since if you raise too many.......you start to starve too death (or in case of North Africa ......Rome starts to starve).
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Post by jamesbond007 Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:30 pm

Stuart Bailey wrote:
jamesbond007 wrote:
Deacon wrote:
You know how slow things move in Glory? Well, this is slower still.

Things will play out in Richard time.


I bought the rules and maps. Secured a position. Decided not to join the game though, because i got the feel that the game would be very slow.

To speed games up, you need to start from a more advanced starting point in my mind. I would like to see glory start with an extra 5 million pounds each and 100,000 recruits to play with on turn one. As well as the usual money and recruits. The first two or even three  years of glory are wasted getting to a position you could get to on turn one. In my opinion.

Think just adding £5m and 100,000 recruits to existing positions would not be very historic and would not speed the game up since if every position has a huge Army and an over-flowing treasury it will take for ever to win even a small military victory.  Do not see much difference between two armies of 50,000 fighting each other compared too a battle between two armies of 150,000.  Apart from 150,00 Danes or  Scots may look a bit odd and over the top.  But perhaps some players would like option of cash/recruits instead of fixed Army/Navy combined with option to "spend" the cash/recruits on Army/Navy of own design.  Which we mean players do not spend ages  building engineer and other units they think are "missing" from their original battle line up.

What I think would actually speed things up would be:

a) If positions started with a number of already well and excellently trained units........seems a bit odd starting a game were the Flag Ship of the Royal Navy or the French Guards have to spend a year drilling to bring them up to expected level.  

b) Replace Fortress Cannon with Garrison unit - mix of gunners, engineers and infantry (normally duty done by veterans in last years of service) as per LAK that would save a lot of messing around.

c) Have a cap on number of number a position can field unless new territory gained as per Scrabble.  This would avoid the giant unhistoric armies/navies seen and once like Fred the Great are start of 7 years war with fully trained max size army players might be forced to get on with things.

I notice RIP also has a effective cap on number of troops since if you raise too many.......you start to starve too death (or in case of North Africa ......Rome starts to starve).  



Most of the first two years in lgdr is spent by using recruits to build up trade and your tax collection. Raise town watch, Dragoons fc for your home towns and colonial positions if you have them. If all this was eliminated and done quickly it would save a great deal of time. Waiting for recruits and revenue to build up to achieve a basic starting position takes time. I call it the start up period. Experienced players have basic moves in which they make to scale up their revenue and recruits situation. If this was done on turn one it would kick start games and move them forward at pace in my opinion.
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Post by Stuart Bailey Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:28 pm

By the standard of recent games of Glori du Roi - Rome is burning has got off to a pretty quick start.

By turn three the Dacians have crossed the border and are looting and in Glori terms trying to increase their "recruit base"......in RIB terms Slave raiding.

Plus all hell is about to start in the East.......much, much quicker than Glori were everyone spends a year at least checking on the  health of the King of Spain.

It seems that the Gov of Syria anti Parthian propaganda has worked so well on our beloved (but perhaps a bit paranoid) Emperor that the Gov of Syria has got the massive military command and the full scale war he was trying for!  With only a slight problem in that the Emperor now expects it all to be done and dusted and the loot of Ctesiphon-Seleucia on its way to the Rome rebuilding fund by the ides of March next year.

Personally, I think this is a pre-emptive strike by a player who has read to rules concerning the slow build of of agents (one per month or wait a year with chance that it may not happen for one in an important position) and has worked out that the Parthian will probably need a couple of years to riddle the East with agents and infilrate the leadership of all the main Jewish factions.  And has gone for a pre-emptive strike before the King of Kings is ready to light the blue touch paper.

Historically, Nero was on his way to a Eastern Campaign when a revolt in Gaul called him back to Italy and this Eastern Campaign never happened.  Dacian raiding was fairly common and various campaigns were waged with no great success against them until the last of the Great Roman Soldier-Emperors smashed them flat in about 30-40 time.  But like campaigns v Parthia it always seems to have been on the Roman to do list.

The Parthians never backed the Jewish revolt and while they did offer to back Vespasian they never actually got involved in the Roman Civil War.  Probably because they had too many problems of their own both internally and with hairy horse types (mostly Alans) but the most successful later Eastern offensive (under Sassinds rather than Parthians) against the Empire prior to the rise of the Arabs benefited from the support of Jewish rebels.  While it can also be said that the Arab invasions owed part of their success due to a religious split between the Churches in Syria and Egypt and the Imperial Govt.

So followers of the sacred flame looking to light the bonfire of religious revolt in the East is not an unreasonable concern for Imperial Commanders in the East to have.

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Post by Regor Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:09 pm

Guys, this is different to LGDR and has its own pressures and problems. There is a world of difference or perhaps 6 centuries and I think Richard has got it about right. The comforting arm of Nero during the first years play has allowed players to find or rather lose and then re-find their feet. For example I spent a lot of diplomacy and orders to discover how a mine was set up. I also accidentally played as later reading suggested was in an appropriate style of my in game compatriots.
RIB has been a challenge and remains so!
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