What’s your best Roman meme?

You snuck in with that: goats!!!

And who asked for such granular data? We Should Be Told!!

I bet sheep and goats come under the same cost. I don’t know but will ask this turn.

In other news rival Legions square up. There’s an advance in the East and the nasty tribes are getting uppity as Nero’s glory plummets!

Didn't ask for any extra info, there could be a danger of a "supplement " if we are not careful & ask too many questions.

As to the goats,

Well having been part of a Rugby team that "kidnapped" the Royal Welch Fusiliers goat. Then seeing a mate of mine go on a charge in front of the Regimental Colonel, not for cruelty to animals but because the goat out ranked him( it was a Corporal!) poor bloke got charged with insubordination.

So Goats are obviously an important part of military training

What do you mean? African or European goats?

I guess it all depends on the milk yields as opposed to Meat quality & quantity.

Personally Favour the European due to it's better temperament & Bearing.

Did you notice Chickens weren't included in the Listing either! What is the world coming to

Yes but I’m still coping with the current rules and I’ve got slaves to do the shopping at the markets.

And what year did the RWF ‘lose’ their goat? #askingforafriend j.flower?

Regor wrote:Yes but I’m still coping with the current rules and I’ve got slaves to do the shopping at the markets.

And what year did the RWF ‘lose’ their goat? #askingforafriend j.flower?

Agree fully that like you I am still trying to get to grips with the rule book, finding it difficult to judge how much to invest in building projects & the like, more down to my personal lack of knowledge of the period.
Maybe just too accustomed to the "Shopping List" from LGDR, where it is all laid out in front of you.

As for the "Goatnapping!" it occurred in 1997, I think, vague memories, it was on a Rugby tour, our Regiment had a history of getting their Mascot. the fact it was behind a two metre high barbed wire topped enclosure is not a hindrance to a Drunken Rugby Team on a Mission.

It all went a bit wrong when it was reported in the papers, apparently the Goat (aka Dawie) was a part of the Royal herd , so actually belonged to the Queen!

RSM was not a happy teddy bear.

J Flower wrote:I guess it all depends on the milk yields as opposed to Meat quality & quantity.

Personally Favour the European due to it's better temperament & Bearing.

Did you notice Chickens weren't included in the Listing either! What is the world coming to  

Compared to the wages of a auxiliary infantryman @ 187.5 denarii or a Legionary/Auxiliary cavalryman  at 225 denarii.  Livestock costs seem very high and your average Legionary or Auxiliary is never going to retire to that little farm with a couple of Oxen (1600 Denarii plus 250 denarii for the plough - ouch!) to pull his plough unless his Commanders lead them on campaigns were he can pick up some loot or they get a lot of Donatives paid by Emperor's (or want to be Emperor's).

Think this is something Roman and other commanders need to keep in mind - your troops want and need loot so staying on the defensive is not good for their morale and may lead to them joining commanders who offer more in the way of loot.

For example not sure what it picked up in the way of livestock and other loot but if the Dacian raid on Roman Territory gained each raider only gained the  equal of at least one slave each that is equal to five years wages working for Rome as an Auxiliary.  The main Chief who lead the raid may be in a spot of bother but all of the War Band leaders who followed him and have got away with their loot would have picked up some serious credit for the next time a raid is proposed.

As for the Iberian take on all this a) No sodding goats - they eat olive tree's !! b) Compared to the amount of money being earned by Dacian Raiders and Builders in Rome (not sure who are the bigger Rogue's) our lads in both the Legion's and the Auxilary Units need a pay rise! c) Do you mean value of normal chickens or extra special hand reared sacred chickens? like the Cordoba Red?

Roman Legion - loss a Eagle = Disgrace

Welsh Regiment - loss a Goat = Disgrace

If you want to see how particular they are about Regimental Goat's in Wales visit Cardiff Castle were their have got all of their dec'd Regimental Goats stuffed and on display like Cats from ancient Egypt.

Clearly Goat napping is a serious offence in Wales asking for Druidic and RSM curses to fall on the head of the Goat napping fiend!

Think the return fixture against the RWF would clearly be one to be "injured" for.

Stuart "wimp on the wing - and pround of it" Bailey

Believe me you would rather be cursed by the Druidic High Priests That face Five minutes of the RSM "displeasure."

Mr Bailey;
I can only let you know that as a Member of the Front Row Union. The joys getting our Hands/Boots/ Knees/ teeth(!)Into any of the backs foolish enough to run into our open loving arms . Is the main reason we play the game.

For any one not acquainted with the joys of this sport . You must be aware that the whole point of the game is of the "Brill Cream " boys - The backs- . To avoid the hard working ball winning Forwards, Any of the Backs caught by the Forwards is fair game & will be showered with hugs & kisses. Naturally the Forwards do try to make sure the Backs they deal with are from the opposition , but cases of mistaken identity have been known to happen.

All you need is a No6: too slow to work the open side he nevertheless closely marks anyone (or just marks) anyone in his way. Occasionally carry’s a ball. Anyone’s ball

Yes; that's the No°&'s primary job, hold on to the backs till the front 5 can get their breath back from the last scrum & trundle over the Back who has been foolish enough to allow themselves to be caught in that loving embrace.

LoL you have to wonder who would have an ego large enough to play 9 or 10 and have at least 3 forwards targeting them. Speed isn’t everything. Cunning and guile are better!

Regor wrote:LoL you have to wonder who would have an ego large enough to play 9 or 10 and have at least 3 forwards targeting them. Speed isn’t everything. Cunning and guile are better!

Nothing wrong with playing 9 provided your forwards:

- Provide good clean front foot ball rather than that tapped rubbish into the mud.

- & they do not allow opposition forwards to run through the line out at the same time the ball is flapped back rather than caught. Trying to deal with such ball is bad enough but its even worse if it comes with some flank forward trying to hack it as you are trying to pick it up.

Nothing wrong with playing 10 provided:

- Your forwards provide good clean ball and keep the opposition forwards bound in, so if you see a opposition flanker doing the one little finger bind onto a maul or scum while drawing a bead on your 10 - GRAB HOLD OF HIM!

- Your 9 does not put ball behind you, miles above your head or into your ankles with a opposition open side basically attached to the ball.

Seems so simple to me that you would have thought even the front row Union would have got it.

Mind you I spent years trying to convince outside centers of the importance of keeping the line streight and drawing the tackle(s) rather than passing to the winger (normally behind, ankles or high) with half of the opposition scrabble defence attached to the ball. Not sure that concept was ever really accepted either.

Ah the joys of the game, Always feel it is a much more respectful game than many others, despite the degree of physical contact .
The way the officials are treated, listened to & respected, is something that certain others sports could definitely learn from.

Seems a little strange that the Front Row Union Players now need a special qualification to play in that position, this may have been introduced to help encourage more interaction between the Backs & the Forwards, as many of the Forwards need help with the spelling on the application forms.

Lets be honest any whipper snapper of a Number 10 who gets caught in the open by a member of the Front Row, probably shouldn't be playing there. (Either that or the Front Row Player is a mile offside )

I was always offside. Frankly too slow for a wing forward, to small for a prop. And I’m old enough to miss the “amature” game.

When the England Wales game at the Arms park had four blokes in a mini driving from London to Cardiff on Saturday morning, two Welsh, two English players. Play the game, knock each other about. Enjoy the hospitality and a lie in then drive back, all mates on Sunday.

Simpler times.

RIB has shown up an one marriage and tens of thousands of denarii later have finally fixed the original problem which my position started with.  Only while I started with one problem now fixed I have gained three new ones:

- The Commander of the Guard murdered my girl in Rome in a very public and insulting way.  If (more like when!) something happens to this ***** who is going to get the blame?  And will it be me?

- I can live with Nero sending my Agent in the Builders Guild into a war zone.........but why has a load of my money intended to help rebuild Rome gone east as well? (Shall I send a third lot?......this is getting silly).

- One major reason to help with re-building was to get on the good side of the Mob and protect my Senators.  But even with some building work and efforts with building regulations, which faction's leader gets his Rome property trashed by the mob?  And who the hell was responsible for this latest outrage?

Is it just my paranioa or are all the Roman players being given a really rough time while all the Barbarian players like the Bird Watcher in the Northern Mists, the PJ wearer of Old Ctesipon and various hairy horsemen and want to be Viking Queens are getting it really easy compared to them. And could this be why various NPC's seem less than keen of becoming part of the Empire? Join the Roman Empire - pay tax and get ulcers and grey heir by the age of 30!

On plus side at least the power base area of my the Senator who has blocked Latin Rights for by Province, tried to ban us from Italia as non Roman's and may be behind the trashed Roman Town House has now been hit by famine and plague!

PROOF IF ANY NEEDED THAT YOU INSULT THE SACRED CHICKENS OF CORDOBA AT YOUR PERIL !!!

Stuart, I feel your pain. Well I dont actually as my lot are moving at a snails pace! And I cant get anything done in Rome. Literally one step forward and two steps back.

On my reading of the chicken entrails (NO SACRED BIRDS WERE HARMED) it looks like the bigger the role you assume the more Gorgon-like problems you acquire. However if you are a barbarian its seems a  bit easier. Kick the bejesus out of some other barbarians, howl at the Romans but not too much and trust that any Roman (Player) doesn’t get enough time off from Rebuilding Rome to come after you.

I wonder how long we can go without a punitive campaign other than in the East?

If we leave it too long we may see tribal uprisings and more Nero orders.

Frankly I read the cash fiasco wondering just how bad a dice role caused its withdrawal from Ostia and how poor Piso could make any headway with the rebuilding.

And why doesn’t the post get through? It’s tough to organise stuff without post going awol in a Roman province not known for brigandage! More in-game comms please anyone else who reads this!


More annon.... gotta dash

Totally agree with diplomacy side of things being a bit thin, seems that we are playing a bit in isolation although in principle many of us belong to the Roma Faction.

Get the feeling that the game will possibly kick up a gear when a certain NPC in Rome accidently runs onto his own sword.


Senator has been killed in Rome, wonder how to get a new voice in the Senate, influence anew one? Or ask Nero to appoint a New Senator ? which would probably involve a large donation to his Golden House fund.

Across the Rhine in one piece & discovered Cider making at the same time..... is there a divine plan here?

Yes losing senators seems to be a common problem. Death, following some other senator, influenced by another person .. how can you plot nicely with such weak blighters ?

After all the trouble caused by people drinking wine (like a Barbarian) rather than watered wine (like a civilized Roman). Have serious doubts about how the Roman faction will cope with Cider drinking!?

Are we sure that this white pathfinder goat leading us to the divine cider is actually a gift from the Gods? Or is it all a dastardly Druid Plot by Merlin and his Druid mates to get the Rhine Legions totally smashed and then attack them?

If the Rhine Legions start finding a amber coloured liquid marked "Water of Life" made in Caladonia. Or a clear white liquid which smells of apples my advise "DONT DRINK IT" and under not circumstances should it be mixed into the sacred chicken feed.

Now there are rules for GREATER ENDURANCE for troops , I wonder if there is a chance of introducing GREATER DRINKING CAPACITY. Unit spends six months in a tavern of choice building up resistance to Alcohol?

If worst come to worst , I suppose they can use the Cider as a form of metal polish, hopefully it won't etch the metal too badly. Should certainly remove rust.

Across the Rhine now, so another campaign in the "East", just instead of sun, sea sand & surf, we have, Torrential Rain, Rancid
Bogs, Trees, Trees & ah let me see was that another tree over there.......

J Flower wrote:Now there are rules for GREATER ENDURANCE for troops , I wonder if there is a chance of introducing GREATER DRINKING CAPACITY. Unit spends six months in a tavern of choice building up resistance to Alcohol?

If worst come to worst , I suppose they can use the Cider as a form of metal polish, hopefully it won't etch the metal too badly. Should certainly remove rust.

Across the Rhine now, so another campaign in the "East", just instead of sun, sea sand & surf, we have, Torrential Rain, Rancid
Bogs, Trees, Trees & ah let me see was that another tree over there.......

Could be worse your Character could be in Caladonia with cold torrential rain

I careful consideration of the "Great White Goat of Germany" by the sacred chickens of Cordoba. The sacred chickens have decided its a bad news goat:

- When their territory became over-crowded Many of the ancient peoples of Italy like the Sabines, Latins, Samnites would send out warbands/settlers to look for new territory & these bands would follow a route shown to their Priests by a "pathfinder" creature like a Wolf, woodpecker, Deer etc (but no mention of pathfinder goats?) & clearly any such creature which is pure white has been sent by the Gods.

The part played by a wolf in one of the Roman foundation myth's may itself be an indication that the foundation of Rome itself involved a path-finder wolf.
So up to a point a belief that your route is being shown to you by a God sent pathfinder creature is really old fashioned & respectable religion.

Problem with the Rhine Legions newly obtained pathfinder Goat according to the sacred chickens is:

- The last Roman General to be lead by a sacred pathfinder - a White fawn sent by the Godess Diana (Goddess of the Hunt, the Moon, Virginity and childbirth) - was Sertorius. No one doubts he was a great general who was only stopped by assassination but he was a hard core Republican! Which is going to make even a tiny reminder of him really, really suspect to the powers that be in Rome. As for Lusitanian and the rest of Iberia think its still a case of "Don't mention Sertorius" since these days we are all good, law abiding want to be full citizens.

- The Goat and the Cider (apple wine) would seem indicate the God - Bacchus god of wine and sensual pleasures. Now the sacred chickens can easily believe that the famous libertine in charge of the Rhine Legions may well have a the favour of the God Bacchus but sensual pleases in the winter woods of Germany may be in short supply unless you get your kicks from icey water running down the back of your neck. What happens if the sacred pathfinder goat turns round and trots of to somewhere warm with good wine and decent brothels like say Rome?

- It should be noted that the Cult of Bacchus is currently banned in Rome. After the bacchanals of the cult started to offend Roman Morals with their uninhibited drinking, dancing and perverse sexual acts. Also it was claimed by Livy etc that the cult leaders had turned it into a crime syndicate. Can not say how many of these charges are true or included goats but no smoke without fire etc and Rome did not ban many cults in its history.

So basically the "Great White Goat of Germany" as a gift from if it is a gift from Agema (The Gods) would seem to be two edged......so about par for the course then.

Could it be the Sacred Chickens of Cordoba have their Gods wrong on this occasion ?

It would seem the fair Goddess Pomona who was a goddess of fruitful abundance in ancient Roman religion and myth, often depicted as a wood Nymph, is the one who sent the "Goat" to the Legions on the Rhine. There is a grove that is sacred to her called the Pomonal, located not far from Ostia, the ancient port of Rome. Now it seems another Grove has also been found on the banks of the Rhenus, So she is known to the good men of Rome, she is the Goddess of fruit trees, gardens, and orchards Her symbol was a goat’s horn filled with grain and flowers which are overflowing from it. Not known for her debauchery & drunken behaviour . So she is no where near as raucous as those naughty Bacchus followers, the Goats horn being her symbol of plenty, would tie in with the Sacred goat being used as a guide by her to direct her followers.

Admittedly the Goat led to an old man who was muttering & unintelligible, whether this had to do with him being an agent of the Gods or simply as side effect of the Cider is something that was not made clear in the Newspaper.

I guess many will see the Cider as both a blessing & a curse , Singing the Gods praises in the evenings & Cursing the side effects in the morning.

Will the goat become the mascot of one of the Rhine Legions? Earning them the name "Goat Worriers!", sorry I mean "Goat Warriors."

J Flower wrote:Could it be the Sacred Chickens of Cordoba have their Gods wrong on this occasion ?  

It would seem the fair Goddess Pomona who was a goddess of fruitful abundance in ancient Roman religion and myth, often depicted as a wood Nymph, is the one who sent the "Goat" to the Legions on the Rhine.  There is a grove that is sacred to her called the Pomonal, located not far from Ostia, the ancient port of Rome. Now it seems another Grove has also been found on the banks of the Rhenus, So she is known to the good men of Rome, she is the Goddess  of fruit trees, gardens, and orchards Her symbol was a goat’s horn filled with grain and flowers which are overflowing from it. Not known for her debauchery & drunken behaviour . So she is no where near as raucous as those naughty Bacchus followers, the Goats horn being her symbol of plenty, would tie in with the Sacred goat being used as a guide by her to direct her followers.  

Admittedly the Goat led to an old man who was muttering & unintelligible, whether this had to do with him being an agent of the Gods or simply as side effect of the Cider is something that was not made clear in the Newspaper.

I guess many will see the Cider as both a blessing & a curse , Singing the Gods praises in the evenings & Cursing the side effects in the morning.

Will the goat become the mascot of one of the Rhine Legions? Earning them the name "Goat Worriers!", sorry I mean "Goat Warriors."

The sacred chickens of Cordoba are never wrong only the way the Augurs read the signs may be wrong some of the time.

But ok I believe you..............the Great White Goat of the Rhine Legions is a link to the "Horn of Plenty" and not any naughty Gods with links to other parts of the goat.

Likewise Cider being mostly apples and therefore good for you is linked to fruit trees and nice civilized but minor Goddess of fruit trees. And has nothing at all to do with the major God of Drinking and Chaos who might have been expected to be quite strong in the wild woods of Germania.

Glad any minor errors and misunderstanding has been cleared up by the Augurs in Germania.

Just hope that the sacred grove of Pomona is well guarded against naughty apple scrumper's who may want to steal her apples and turn them into scumble - a terrible spirit of the God of drinking harbringer of visions esp if taken with magic mushrooms, Chaos, anarchy and the type of really bad hang over you sober up from days later! Thinking did we actually say Nero is tone deaf and proclaim XXXX Emperor?