G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:47 pm

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Post n°676

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:47 pm

They'll certainly be busy over the next few months.

It does appear though that our new French player has made his choice.

Certainly an interesting return.

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:04 pm

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Post n°677

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:04 pm

I'd say there are still plenty of options open RJC...no choices have been made...just options put on the table...

by Frank Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:37 pm

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Post n°678

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Frank Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:37 pm

I think i will make next turn an investment in Maritime rope trade. Could be profitable. bom

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:53 pm

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Post n°679

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:53 pm

Well we'll need some extra rope to hang the flags on when universal peace breaks out Very Happy

by Regor Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:58 pm

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Post n°680

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Regor Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:58 pm

Universal peace will break out when the Chinese civilise you lot!

by Regor Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:02 pm

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Post n°681

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Regor Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:02 pm

Or when the nice kindly Ottomans knock your heads together. Suspect

But Frankly with England and France and the Jacobites with new players almost at once we'll all be explaining matters for a year - I'd offer them all to read this but then I don't recognise the "truth" of the situation herein.

But it is fun. Shocked

And thats not a pop at anyone just an observer's opinion. Embarassed

(Note to self - ensure you own the worlds stock of rope, bunting and daggers) tongue

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:10 pm

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Post n°682

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:10 pm

Bah...there will be universal peace...Jacobite, Frenchie and RJC, arm in arm...as they march off to conquer the Chinese Razz

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:16 pm

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Post n°683

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:16 pm

Regor wrote:Or when the nice kindly Ottomans knock your heads together.

But Frankly with England and France and the Jacobites with new players almost at once we'll all be explaining matters for a year - I'd offer them all to read this but then I don't recognise the "truth" of the situation herein.

But it is fun.

And thats not a pop at anyone just an observer's opinion.

(Note to self - ensure you own the worlds stock of rope, bunting and daggers)

Your cunning attempts to delay us by a year to allow your vast Chinese fleet to reach Europe will not work Razz

by count-de-monet Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:51 pm

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Post n°684

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by count-de-monet Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:51 pm

due to an error on my part not all of my orders were processed this last turn. I believe letters may be arriving as a late update to some players.

If Moldovia is a forum user the pledge is simply delayed by a turn but is definitely happening !

by Stuart Bailey Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:01 pm

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Post n°685

When will the nice kindly Ottomans start knocking heads?

by Stuart Bailey Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:01 pm

Regor wrote:Or when the nice kindly Ottomans knock your heads together.

But Frankly with England and France and the Jacobites with new players almost at once we'll all be explaining matters for a year - I'd offer them all to read this but then I don't recognise the "truth" of the situation herein.

But it is fun.

And thats not a pop at anyone just an observer's opinion.

(Note to self - ensure you own the worlds stock of rope, bunting and daggers)

I think the one eyed sage of Glory du Roi may have a point about the Ottomans - In much the same way as in G8 the elephant in the room is "when is Louis XiV going to make his move" one of the big questions for G7 is "when are the Ottomans going to make a move?"

The popular move would no doubt be to re-unite all Turks and then head a huge Pan Turkish campaign to put the snotty Manchu in their place.

But no doubt joining the Swedes to keep the Baltic & the Black Sea free of Russian Vodka bottles probably has fans in the Turkish Foreign Office. While the Danube Central Europe Tour...........see the sights of Budapest, Vienna and Prague and plunder them is always popular.

My guess is that a lot will come down to does the Ottomans trust the Swedes or the French more? The Swedes have recent past form for abandoning allies while the French are just deep down dodgy in the DNA. Before you know it would could be knee deep in crasading Ferrets and not a frog in sight.

So I guess pan Turkish unity and mangle the Manchu it is Very Happy

by Ardagor Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:31 pm

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Post n°686

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Ardagor Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:31 pm

All the Ottomans agreeing to plan and everyone actually doing their very best to reach the common goal would certainly be a impressive sight, but hopefully the world will not witness such an event.

by Deacon Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:00 pm

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Post n°687

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Deacon Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:00 pm

Ardagor wrote:All the Ottomans agreeing to plan and everyone actually doing their very best to reach the common goal would certainly be a impressive sight, but hopefully the world will not witness such an event.

There couldn't be a much better time for the Ottomans to attack, but I agree, actually pulling off the coordination and chutzpah to do it is an entirely different matter.

by Stuart Bailey Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:03 pm

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Post n°688

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Stuart Bailey Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:03 pm

If I was an Ottoman (which I have been but not in G7) I am not sure if I would agree with Deacon saying there could not be a better time to attack:

1) Five of the top ten honour positions are taken by powers which are potential victims of Ottoman attacks - Russia, Persia, two Hapsburgs & the HWIC which doubles up as Hapsburg Viceroy of Africa.

2) Russia may be trouble in the north but its still a much stronger power than in 1700 and has spent last five years charming the Orthodox in the Empire.

3) Persia ditto of two but read Shia for Orthodox.

4) The West .........Ferret Fanciers by the bucket load and the League of St George

I am not saying the GV with some proper support from the rest of the Empire can not take the Drunken bum in Russia, The Heretic in Persia, The so called "Hammer of the Turks" running Venice and Farmer "get of my land" Leopold plus family...........But I have seen better times for a Ottoman attack.

by Deacon Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:58 am

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Post n°689

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Deacon Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:58 am

At this stage, I imagine most have the honour necessary to run their troops, so honour isn't that relevant. I think the on-going wars are more relevant.

And while I think it is about as good a time as they could hope for, I still don't expect it to happen.

by The Revenant Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:18 am

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Post n°690

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by The Revenant Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:18 am

count-de-monet wrote:due to an error on my part not all of my orders were processed this last turn. I believe letters may be arriving as a late update to some players.

If Moldovia is a forum user the pledge is simply delayed by a turn but is definitely happening !

Well, strangely enough... and indeed your last was sent on as a special late-extra by Agema, so no probs (to use an anachronistic vernacular).

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:38 am

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Post n°691

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:38 am

All reports from France in the press (and reports from England) point to France actively supporting James 3rd - does this mean that the New France has declared war on England even though no declaration has been made? For example, French troops declining to hand Hull over to English troops?

Interesting to have two new players fighting two old players war, skipping the chance to make a fresh start. We should see some fresh new tactics at hand too.

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:02 pm

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Post n°692

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:02 pm

Whilst I don't want to be accused of playing the game via the Forum...

...please bear in mind that the latest turn is reporting on the first turn's actions of the 'new' French government and its initial actions are based on what it found the in-game situation to be...and some realities may not yet be apparent to the new government due to (for example) its lack of a copy of the peace treaty with England...also bear in mind the English government has unilaterally moved up the timescale for the French withdrawal without giving France any notice...so its perhaps not surprising the French troops are not moving in accordance with English actions...

There is a chance for peace (new players always bring that chance)...but do the older players want peace or do they prefer to fight...answers on the back of a £100 note to... Wink

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:34 pm

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Post n°693

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:34 pm

Jason wrote:There is a chance for peace (new players always bring that chance)

I won't dispute that and without commenting on current events or prejudicing any actions of a new French player ... the treaties referred to were published on the forum, namely the Concorde of Bristol and Document of Accession.

RJC seems to be under the delusion that he can stick to the letter of the Concorde of Bristol and ignore the Document of Accession. However, the 2 treaties are clearly linked. As a purely legal debating point, both treaties referred to King James, not 'the ruler of England'. Although RJC has done his best to comply with those terms to satisfy France's war with England, clause 4 of the Concorde of Bristol named King James as being the ruler of England. After the murder of KJ, clause 4 cannot be fulfilled. Whether this amounts to a breach is up to the new player. However, a stronger case is for a breach of the Document of Accession. It is that treaty, not the Concorde of Bristol, which gives French troops the right to remain in England for as long as it takes to secure the crown for King James. By the treaty, the decision to withdraw French troops is not in the power of King Louis, it is entirely a matter for King James. This was done deliberately to ensure that the French Army could not become an occupying force beyond the control of King James of England. King James has made it very clear that he requires French help, so unless the players decide among themselves this is not necessary, French troops are obligated to stay.

No declaration of war against rebels is necessary to honour a treaty with the legitimate Stuart government of England.

by Regor Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:04 pm

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Post n°694

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Regor Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:04 pm

RKL I guess I must tell you - France has been taken over. Long live the King! But I do hope you will continue to inform us from the side-lines. Smile

by Deacon Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:11 pm

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Post n°695

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Deacon Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:11 pm

I'm surprised you didn't get a copy of the treaties with your startup. I did.

I, not surprisingly, agree with RKL. I think it's pretty untenable for England to assert they've fulfilled their treaty obligations.

by Regor Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:28 pm

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Post n°696

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Regor Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:28 pm

I'm interested in the FoW side of this game but It makes sense to have the gift of history. When I joined as Austria in a game long ago I had not the faintest idea of what had given before. This limited my play and I think my allies and enemies all got sick of me very quickly. I dropped out soon after.......... well a year after Embarassed

Err and Yes re England and the treaty. it needs to be signed sealed and delivered.

Clearly England and the Sons (who I think have done well) seem to have formed an axis with the UDP.

France needs the Jacobites but also needs peace time Austria: No grand peace plans just get them to sling their hook and mix it with the anglo-saxons.

Sweden and Russia well that should fizzle out and the Hapsburg's generally can get back to lording it over Europe.

Spain is looking very good at present sunny

by Deacon Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:39 pm

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Post n°697

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Deacon Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:39 pm

At least as quoted here, Austria isn't inclined to withdraw, and I doubt France will just accept losses, so I think that conflict will go on for a while despite previous assertions that it will soon be over.

Not to rain on my own parade, but I think the Jacobites need France far more than France needs the Jacobites. Though, of course, the long term benefits of a friendly England could shift the balance of power in Europe towards France. Leopold seems to be going for the all-or-nothing approach there.

We'll see if new players cause anybody to change course, but I'm betting not.

Why do you think Sweden and Russia should fizzle out?

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:10 pm

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Post n°698

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:10 pm

At times like these it's a good idea to sit down and have a nice cup of tea and take a look at things from outside of the position.

So, if I were not the RJC I'd be thinking;

France, England and the Jacobites need to get their heads together and sort out which way they want to go and not be influenced by the 'you should not' and 'you cannot' folk looking in from the sidelines. The beauty of the game is that 'you can' give things a go and you're never bound by real life history (unless you choose to be). And I'd it's too much then Richard gives you a nudge back into reality....game reality. Wink

We could (and many of us have) bang on about treaties old and new for ever more, but that gets nowhere very quickly. The game is such that it's down to individuals if they want to abide by pre-1700 treaties, former players treaties, or even the treaties they have made themselves. And then Richard decides what's what and how the honour score, npc's etc react. Very Happy

by Regor Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:02 pm

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Post n°699

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Regor Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:02 pm

D - I agree with you on the power play between Jacobites and France but they are natural allies. But Austria has got no real cause against France (in my mind) and the RJC has taken away his reason for war. Unless Leopold is just out to cause damage but his honour must be dribbling away whilst France's might even now be rising.

As to the RJC I agree.... for instance slavery ...completely unacceptable now but back then? Hmm

I don't hold too much with treaties unless signed in-game then you better watch out if you breach them. Otherwise they are scene setters and adjustable to some extent.

But the only thing that matters is how Agema see it........... affraid

And that to me is just a black hole! silent

And if Richard monitors this ... my name is Sutart Bailey ------ enjoy jocolor

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:06 pm

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Post n°700

Re: G7 - France vs. England

by Guest Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:06 pm

Regor wrote:And that to me is just a black hole! And if Richard monitors this ... my name is Sutart Bailey ------ enjoy

Haha.

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When will the nice kindly Ottomans start knocking heads?

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