+14
Stuart Bailey
Richard D. Watts
Kingmaker
Basileus
Frank
The Hessian
Ardagor
Regor
Deacon
jamesbond007
baggins
Goldstar
tek_604
count-de-monet
18 posters
G7 - France vs. England
Basileus- Prince
- Number of posts : 458
Age : 63
Location : Wales/Cornwall
Reputation : 13
Registration date : 2011-07-01
- Post n°851
Re: G7 - France vs. England
History and war in this period could often be very personal. So whilst I might have fought old Louis to the death, there is no need for that with the Dauphin. I think that the war between France and Austria started not least because old Louis was so annoying. Not so with the Dauphin, he seems like a decent chap who the Austrians could sit down with and agree reasonable terms for both sides.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°852
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Basileus - the point at issue is not whether you can agree reasonable terms, but whether you'll stick to them.
You may find it annoying, but when it comes to attacking other nations and breaking your word/treaties, you have form, not just in respect of France, but others. If you have turned over a new leaf, repented of your past actions and make amends then perhaps you can be trusted again. I would be very happy if that was the case, and so (in the game) would your own nobility and the church.
This is not me having a dig at you, but what is clearly set out in the rules.
You may find it annoying, but when it comes to attacking other nations and breaking your word/treaties, you have form, not just in respect of France, but others. If you have turned over a new leaf, repented of your past actions and make amends then perhaps you can be trusted again. I would be very happy if that was the case, and so (in the game) would your own nobility and the church.
This is not me having a dig at you, but what is clearly set out in the rules.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°853
Re: G7 - France vs. England
I think what we need to do is simply see how things progress now...and hey summer is passing, autumn will soon be here, leaves will be falling and turning over as they do so
The Hessian- Lord
- Number of posts : 85
Reputation : 0
Registration date : 2010-09-28
- Post n°854
Re: G7 - France vs. England
The sooner the dauphin and emperor do sit down and succeed with peace negotiations the better it will be for us all. TRLOF may not stop but at least the dauphin will have achieved a massive diplomatic coup that eluded the previous incumbent!
Maybe life will return to normal then and we can all sit down and watch the seasons pass us by. Damn its too early to find beethoven when you need one.
Jason , I did not know of this softer side to you..interesting.
Maybe life will return to normal then and we can all sit down and watch the seasons pass us by. Damn its too early to find beethoven when you need one.
Jason , I did not know of this softer side to you..interesting.
J Flower- Emperor
- Number of posts : 1242
Age : 54
Location : Paderborn, Germany
Reputation : 17
Registration date : 2012-02-16
- Post n°855
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Please define NORMAL
Guest- Guest
- Post n°856
Re: G7 - France vs. England
The Hessian wrote:Jason , I did not know of this softer side to you..interesting.
What can I say, I'm...complicated
Regor- Duke
- Number of posts : 360
Location : Fleet
Reputation : 6
Registration date : 2010-02-15
- Post n°857
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Ah but how .....complciated Hope you've got your turn back in!
Guest- Guest
- Post n°858
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Just trying to finish it off...unfortunately the 21st C has thrown a bit of mess at me so letters will have to wait until next turn...can at least get the military orders, statements, get someone on their way to the peace talks...
Deacon- Emperor
- Number of posts : 1859
Age : 61
Location : Portland OR, USA
Reputation : 44
Registration date : 2010-04-13
- Post n°859
Re: G7 - France vs. England
I still have to work on mine, been busy as heck. Thanks for the reminder!
Basileus- Prince
- Number of posts : 458
Age : 63
Location : Wales/Cornwall
Reputation : 13
Registration date : 2011-07-01
- Post n°860
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Strangely in Scramble for Empire my prestige (prestige rather than honour) level is truly low standing at 1. Perhaps there has been a leakage of honour/prestige from game 7 to Scramble? It was a bit of a suprise when I noticed it, anyway the outcome in that game is that the government isnt working very well.
So the view that my honour is dropping is right but happens to be in another game.
So the view that my honour is dropping is right but happens to be in another game.
Regor- Duke
- Number of posts : 360
Location : Fleet
Reputation : 6
Registration date : 2010-02-15
- Post n°861
Re: G7 - France vs. England
LoL - nothing I do In Scramble has much of a positive effect - Much like LGDR - but perhaps I need to post in another bit of the forum?
But now the waiting .....
The fear,
the well, excitment
But now the waiting .....
The fear,
the well, excitment
J Flower- Emperor
- Number of posts : 1242
Age : 54
Location : Paderborn, Germany
Reputation : 17
Registration date : 2012-02-16
- Post n°862
Re: G7 - France vs. England
There always seems a lot of talk about negative Honour, at the other end are there any advantages of a high 20+ honour, or is just the feel good factor of having your name up in lights on hte rich & famous list?
Guest- Guest
- Post n°863
Re: G7 - France vs. England
J Flower wrote:There always seems a lot of talk about negative Honour, at the other end are there any advantages of a high 20+ honour, or is just the feel good factor of having your name up in lights on hte rich & famous list?
Well the extra private income from high honour comes in handy I suppose the advantage of a high honour score is that it allows you to try something out that if it dosn't work would lose you honour points more than if you have a low honour score...at last it does with me
Guest- Guest
- Post n°864
Re: G7 - France vs. England
High honour does not seem as important as it once was. It no longer affects morale on the battlefield or the number of ships/troops which can be controlled.
However, I think it does still have an effect when dealing with unfriendly NPCs. Friendly NPCs will probably go along with your suggestion anyway, but unfriendly ones are perhaps more likely to reply positively to your diplomacy if your honour is high. This would tie in with the idea that honour is a reflection of what your nobility/society think of you.
However, I think it does still have an effect when dealing with unfriendly NPCs. Friendly NPCs will probably go along with your suggestion anyway, but unfriendly ones are perhaps more likely to reply positively to your diplomacy if your honour is high. This would tie in with the idea that honour is a reflection of what your nobility/society think of you.
Regor- Duke
- Number of posts : 360
Location : Fleet
Reputation : 6
Registration date : 2010-02-15
- Post n°865
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Good point I think I agree with that!
Basileus- Prince
- Number of posts : 458
Age : 63
Location : Wales/Cornwall
Reputation : 13
Registration date : 2011-07-01
- Post n°867
Re: G7 - France vs. England
My plan to increase prestige in Scramble is to set up a band for the Eurograph (Eurovision) song contest, with tuba's and glockenspiels, dressed in lederhosen, and handle bar moustaches (slight clue as to my nation there). Some how I dont think that would help in game 7.
I am finding the best way to play the game is to think "Carry On" but I am not certain thats how the game is supposed but be played, but other players seem to be taking that approach, particular the player for France. Sorry, gone off topic.
I am finding the best way to play the game is to think "Carry On" but I am not certain thats how the game is supposed but be played, but other players seem to be taking that approach, particular the player for France. Sorry, gone off topic.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°868
Re: G7 - France vs. England
You want every other nation to declare war on you as a way to increase your prestige?????
Basileus wrote:My plan to increase prestige in Scramble is to set up a band for the Eurograph (Eurovision) song contest, with tuba's and glockenspiels, dressed in lederhosen, and handle bar moustaches (slight clue as to my nation there). Some how I dont think that would help in game 7.
I am finding the best way to play the game is to think "Carry On" but I am not certain thats how the game is supposed but be played, but other players seem to be taking that approach, particular the player for France. Sorry, gone off topic.
Stuart Bailey- Emperor of Europe
- Number of posts : 2606
Age : 61
Location : Somewhere East of Bristol & West of Bath
Reputation : 61
Registration date : 2012-01-29
- Post n°869
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Basileus wrote:Strangely in Scramble for Empire my prestige (prestige rather than honour) level is truly low standing at 1. Perhaps there has been a leakage of honour/prestige from game 7 to Scramble? It was a bit of a suprise when I noticed it, anyway the outcome in that game is that the government isnt working very well.
So the view that my honour is dropping is right but happens to be in another game.
Clearly were you went wrong in Scramble was in trying to be friendly with the French (and one ex Nun in particular).
Proof positive that in Agema run games being nice to the French gives your character a dose of the clap and drops your honour/prestige to 1.
Ok their may be a couple of other reasons for the low prestige such as being caught out robbing honest (well HEIC) merchants, murdering Russian Ministers in Vienna, and building ships which such deep draft that they cant get out of their own harbour but basically its clear things started to go wrong when you started being nice to the Frogs.
My advise is go back to French bashing !!!!!!!!!!!!! You know it makes sence.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°870
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Bah, in G6, I used to be very nice to the French and it did me no harm... and not a sign of the clap...
Stuart Bailey wrote:Clearly were you went wrong in Scramble was in trying to be friendly with the French (and one ex Nun in particular).
Proof positive that in Agema run games being nice to the French gives your character a dose of the clap and drops your honour/prestige to 1.
Ok their may be a couple of other reasons for the low prestige such as being caught out robbing honest (well HEIC) merchants, murdering Russian Ministers in Vienna, and building ships which such deep draft that they cant get out of their own harbour but basically its clear things started to go wrong when you started being nice to the Frogs.
My advise is go back to French bashing !!!!!!!!!!!!! You know it makes sence.
Stuart Bailey- Emperor of Europe
- Number of posts : 2606
Age : 61
Location : Somewhere East of Bristol & West of Bath
Reputation : 61
Registration date : 2012-01-29
- Post n°871
Re: G7 - France vs. England
The Real Louis of France wrote:High honour does not seem as important as it once was. It no longer affects morale on the battlefield or the number of ships/troops which can be controlled.
However, I think it does still have an effect when dealing with unfriendly NPCs. Friendly NPCs will probably go along with your suggestion anyway, but unfriendly ones are perhaps more likely to reply positively to your diplomacy if your honour is high. This would tie in with the idea that honour is a reflection of what your nobility/society think of you.
One of my characters once had a honour of 50 plus and it did him no good at all - Agema NPC's were still just as difficult as before and they all seem to hate my character as a matter of principal !!!!!!!
The only diplomatic success that particular character has ever had is via bribery. Have also had some success with "terror" but I have yet to have any success with kind works and reasoned debate. Has anyone had any success with logical reason and fair words or it only my characters who are hated by Richards NPCs?
Guest- Guest
- Post n°872
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Stuart Bailey wrote:The only diplomatic success that particular character has ever had is via bribery. Have also had some success with "terror" but I have yet to have any success with kind works and reasoned debate. Has anyone had any success with logical reason and fair words or it only my characters who are hated by Richards NPCs?
Perhaps once you start paying bribes, characters require ever higher bribes to secure future agreements? After all, is bribery particularly honourable? Presumably your character did not advertise the fact that he achieved his ends through this method rather than through the strength of his case? You also mention terror! Both may have their uses as short term shock tactics, but unless such devices were normal for your character, I suggest they are unrelated to your honour score. In Christian countries I would imagine it is more important to treat others as you would expect to be treated by them. How would your character have reacted if you were offered a bribe? How would your nobility have reacted if it was made public that you had accepted one? Remember society takes its lead from the king, so should such behaviour be noticed, then I would expect that before long judges would be openly accepting bribes so justice as a concept within your lands would quickly disappear.
I would be very surprised if the ruler of a state which openly encouraged/accepted bribery gained honour by such action.
I would be very surprised if the ruler of a state which openly encouraged/accepted bribery gained honour by such action.
Deacon- Emperor
- Number of posts : 1859
Age : 61
Location : Portland OR, USA
Reputation : 44
Registration date : 2010-04-13
- Post n°873
Re: G7 - France vs. England
I've had luck with persuasion, but it has been limited and frankly required some seriously fine prose on my part. Not for everyday work. I don't think honour much plays into it.
I think mostly it's Richard defaulting to "no" on all things, so it requires quite an effort to overcome NPC inertia. It doesn't matter what you ask or want, the default answer is no.
Bribery always seems the easiest way to overcome that, which while perhaps not the most honourable course, is very, very period....
Stuart Bailey- Emperor of Europe
- Number of posts : 2606
Age : 61
Location : Somewhere East of Bristol & West of Bath
Reputation : 61
Registration date : 2012-01-29
- Post n°874
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Ref the RKL question about how would my Character react to a bribe? And how would his Nobility react? I think the answer would be:
A) Thank you very much............can you make it a bit higher?
&
B) What about our share?
But while players have "free will" my own experience of Agema NPC's is that they are 1) Out to annoy me & 2) Deacon is right their default position is "No" something only influenced by brides or direct and immediate threat.
I suspect the advantage of a high honour score is not that it allows you to replace gold with sweet reason but that it makes your NPC's less prone to accept bribes and other forms of influence from outside. But at the end of the day everyone has got their price!
A) Thank you very much............can you make it a bit higher?
&
B) What about our share?
But while players have "free will" my own experience of Agema NPC's is that they are 1) Out to annoy me & 2) Deacon is right their default position is "No" something only influenced by brides or direct and immediate threat.
I suspect the advantage of a high honour score is not that it allows you to replace gold with sweet reason but that it makes your NPC's less prone to accept bribes and other forms of influence from outside. But at the end of the day everyone has got their price!
Guest- Guest
- Post n°875
Re: G7 - France vs. England
Stuart/Deacon, you both amaze me - such a cynical, brutal and hostile world you imagine the 1700s to be. Bribery may be an easy and quick way to convince a single official to withdraw his objection to your plans, but I reject the suggestion that
Where then does that leave honour? Remember there was such a thing as courtly behaviour, where gentlemen would show courtesy to each other and to the ladies of the court, where some dashing gallant would come to the aid of someone in distress, risking his life not for money, but because it was deemed to be the right thing to do. I don't think such people are confined to those who play 'Swashbuckler' characters! And what gentleman would admit his honour could be bought? In rare individual cases, of course bribery can be expected to help sway opinion, but not as a matter of general policy. In addition there was an atmosphere of morality dominated by religion, which encouraged Christian behaviour in Europe. All these factors used to be integral to the concept of honour in LGDR. If, as you both seem to suggest, such factors now mean nothing to players or the GM, then we would appear to be left not with an historical simulation, but with a nasty, shallow game world which allows players to indulge their modern morality and evil fantasies. This doesn't exactly reflect Richard's description of LGDR on the website as being a game where "You take part with other like-minded people with a love of history in a thrilling and educational game setting."
If, as you suggest, honour is so meaningless then perhaps the table (and the monthly honour score) should disappear. Much less work for the GM and it would perhaps reflect what some players seem to be demanding. Another nail in the coffin of historical reality!
Stuart Bailey wrote:everyone has got their price!
Where then does that leave honour? Remember there was such a thing as courtly behaviour, where gentlemen would show courtesy to each other and to the ladies of the court, where some dashing gallant would come to the aid of someone in distress, risking his life not for money, but because it was deemed to be the right thing to do. I don't think such people are confined to those who play 'Swashbuckler' characters! And what gentleman would admit his honour could be bought? In rare individual cases, of course bribery can be expected to help sway opinion, but not as a matter of general policy. In addition there was an atmosphere of morality dominated by religion, which encouraged Christian behaviour in Europe. All these factors used to be integral to the concept of honour in LGDR. If, as you both seem to suggest, such factors now mean nothing to players or the GM, then we would appear to be left not with an historical simulation, but with a nasty, shallow game world which allows players to indulge their modern morality and evil fantasies. This doesn't exactly reflect Richard's description of LGDR on the website as being a game where "You take part with other like-minded people with a love of history in a thrilling and educational game setting."
If, as you suggest, honour is so meaningless then perhaps the table (and the monthly honour score) should disappear. Much less work for the GM and it would perhaps reflect what some players seem to be demanding. Another nail in the coffin of historical reality!