The Age of Enlightenment. Game 9.

Mar 1705

1.  The Scottish Government informs the French Ambassador that they hope England and France make peace, but they will support England if France continue to back the Jacobite pretender.

2.  English and French Irregulars supported by native allies continue to skirmish against each other on the American frontier.

3.  King Louis XIV declares that Spain has transferred Flanders to France, but he is negotiating it's exact status with Bavaria and the Emperor.  Any Swedish attempt to enter Flanders will be seen as an act of war against France.

4.  The Emperor has declared that he will host a peace conference to be held in Vienna in May, all interested parties are invited to attend.

4.  The UDP has honoured it treaty commitments and declared war on Spain, but the Dutch government has also sent a delegations to the proposed peace conference in Vienna.

5.  King William III denounces France and Bavaria for breaking the terms of the treaty of Ryswick, by which terms they agreed not to support the Jacobite cause.  King William III also questions the Emperor neutrality and demands that any peace conference be Hosted by the Elector of Prussia.  Austria's claim to Milan is also questioned.

6.  The Emperor explains the legality of Austria's acquisition of Milan to the local nobility, much to their dismay it appears entirely legal.  A pro-Austrian Mob murder the Venetian Governor and demand direct Rule from Vienna.  Austrian Hussars arrive too late to restore order, whilst the nobility request that France intervenes.

7.  The Doge tells the Austrian Ambassador that Spain has no right to transfer Milan to Austria as it had already sold it to Venice.  The Doge appears to have forgotten the terms of the peace of Milan.

8.  The Shah of Persia holds a Banquet to celebrate the glory of his realm and its people.

9.  The plague has cleared in Delhi and the Mughal empire has reduced taxation on the nobility, a Hindu mob riot in Dacca.

10.  The Elector of Bavaria tours the Catholic rulers of the Reich.

11.  20,000 Swedish troops have been seen embarking on transport at Rotterdam, destination unknown.

Don't you just hate it when people declare war and then immediately someone start's a peace conference.

I think to keep in period and avoid charges of cowardice (which would do a lot of damage to a gentlemans reputation).....after war is declared mention of "peace talks" should only happen in winter & after at least one campaign season which includes at least one proper battle or siege.

Goldstar wrote:Mar 1705


11.  20,000 Swedish troops have been seen embarking on transport at Rotterdam, destination unknown.

i have a sucpect....

I don't think they will be giving peace a chance. The Dutch and Scots might be reluctant but King Billy and the mad Swede are belligerent as ever. The Doge seems likely to fight for Milan and the Tsar has his eye on some prime Baltic real estate with a sea view.

Picking up a point from Deacon, in the G10 discussion.... is the accepted view that pre-1700 Treaties are not legally binding ? I ask for 2 reasons 1) I have potentially made a (an honest one !) cock-up in G9 with regard to a pre-1700 treaty and 2) The Treaty of Westphalia still dominates pretty much every game in one way or another and that's pre-1700 !

cheers

count-de-monet wrote:Picking up a point from Deacon, in the G10 discussion.... is the accepted view that pre-1700 Treaties are not legally binding ?  I ask for 2 reasons 1) I have potentially made a (an honest one !) cock-up in G9 with regard to a pre-1700 treaty and 2) The Treaty of Westphalia still dominates pretty much every game in one way or another and that's pre-1700 !

cheers

My view which I think is a fairly common view is that pre-1700 treaties are not binding.....unless you want to consider yourself honour bound to uphold the treaty against the dishonourable bounder and cad who has just broken it.

Thus if you break a pre 1700 treaty Richard is not going to hammer your honour score or the honour score of players who take no action to defend a pre 1700 treaty (they may not even be aware off said treaty
let alone its full terms).

But if you do break a pre 1700 treaty esp one of the major ones it does give other powers a very valid reason to jump up and down in a rage and even declare war.

As well as the Treaty of Westphalia which gives France, Spain, Sweden, Austria and all other member states of the Holy Roman Empire a good reason to jump up and down on anyone who tries to step on the rights of the Princes in pursuit of a united Germany. I think the other treaties players should consider are:

- The very old and historic English Alliance with Portugal, the English may not have liked Catherine of Braganza very much as Queen of England but if any dastardly Spanish threaten to annex their Port supplies and dearly beloved Queen Dowager (who did introduce Tea drinking.....clearly a Saint!) they are clearly looking for trouble with any English Government with a backbone.

- The ink is hardly dry on the 1699 treaty of Karlowitz and other treaties which brought latest round of Ottoman Wars to an end, so it can be argued that it should be valid to at least 1702. This treaty ended Wars between Austria with allies from HRE, Venice, Poland & Russia V the Ottomans. Thus any attempts by Ottomans to take back territory they ceded at Karlowitz etc would give all the Christain Powers mentioned above a good and valid reason to declare war.

- The League of Augsburg, an alliance of HRE Princes, the Emperor & also other powers which aimed at stopping Louis XIV favourite hobby of helping himself to parts of the Western Germany.

- Partition Treaties between William of Orange & Louis XIV of France. It can be argued that any attempt by France to claim the whole of the Spanish inheritence for the French Duc of Anjou or to back the Jacobite claim to England is breach of promise and a reason for the English & Dutch to go to war. Likewise any attempt by the Anglo-Dutch to block a fair share of the inheritence going to le Duc is breach of promise to France.

My understanding aligns with Stuart's.

Basically the pre-1700 treaties don't bind. But other nations can use them as an excuse for war or other actions. Of course, they can use a lot of things that way. As long as you can spin a good yarn on why you're righteous and on god's side in smiting the wicked, you're on solid ground honour-wise. What your fellow players do or demand is always another matter.

turn is in town

I have had a "legal" response back with my turn. Will look to publish some of the details in the next turn but Sturat Bailey is right - and this is alluded to in the Rules (p40). Some rulers who believed they were on rock solid legal ground are now standing on quick-sand

count-de-monet wrote:I have had a "legal" response back with my turn.  Will look to publish some of the details in the next turn but Sturat Bailey is right - and this is alluded to in the Rules (p40).  Some rulers who believed they were on rock solid legal ground are now standing on quick-sand

i beg your pardon. It's unclear to me

sorry Nexus06 - I don't want to say too much on here as it should be done in game but Stuart in an earlier post said that pre-1700 treaties are not binding in game. Now I believe that position to be correct, which undermines the legality of the current Anglo-French war

count-de-monet wrote:sorry Nexus06 - I don't want to say too much on here as it should be done in game but Stuart in an earlier post said that pre-1700 treaties are not binding in game.  Now I believe that position to be correct, which undermines the legality of the current Anglo-French war

ok got it!

thanks

I'm clearly not following, because I don't think legality applies to wars at all.

A war may or may not have legitimate cassus belli, but even here I think you're permitted to point at one of the pre-game treaties as your cassus belli even if Richard won't enforce it honour-wise in game.

This so makes me wish that Richard would just post the game newsletters so we could watch the games we're not in...

It's just lucky this rum smuggler, Gobble Luregi or whatever his name is, is in G9 and not G10...or he would soon find himself in prison in Glasgow, on a diet of haggis and Buckfast

Jason wrote:It's just lucky this rum smuggler, Gobble Luregi or whatever his name is, is in G9 and not G10...or he would soon find himself in prison in Glasgow, on a diet of haggis and Buckfast

I have to say that it was fun reading, although i think I've missed some of the elements, being a foreigner...

Apols

Lurgei is a variation on Lurgy https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lurgy what's odd is it's an invented word from "The Goon Show" (one of the greatest comedy creations of all time and an inspiration for Monty Python) but since the 1970s and perhaps before, having the "lurgy" was a general way in the UK of saying you weren't feeling well, whether a cold, the flu, stomach bug.

Haggis-I am sure I won't have to explain to you this culinary delight of Scotland

Buckfast-another odd one, it's actually an alcoholic and caffeinated tonic water that is made by monks in Devon that is popular with underage teenagers in Scotland. I had it once and had the urge to rip my teeth out afterwards, why anyone would ever drink it is beyond me...I won't even force French pirates in G10 to drink it

Glasgow-it's Hell, on a bad day, when the toilets are blocked and all the traffic lights are stuck on red...and it's raining...more than usual

Apr 1705

1. Peace in our Time? Both sides in the Franco-English conflict appear to want to at least attend peace talks, but there is some confusion about the venue. The Emperor has offered to host talks in Vienna, this is acceptable to the UDP, Sweden, Spain and Bavaria, unfortunately the English doubt the Emperors neutrality and have asked Prussia to host the talks. The French have indicated they are content with the Emperor's neutrality, put will go to Prussia to placate the English. The Elector of Brandenburg, King in Prussia has made no indication that he will host any talks and the Emperor has invited him to Vienna to act as a neutral observer. It is all very confusing.
2. The Emperor presents the legal case for the transfer of the Duchy of Milan to Austria and implies that King William should keep his nose out of Milanese affairs.
3. Despite his show of bluster last month the Doge of Venice agrees to sign the peace of Milan, recognizing the Emperor as the sovereign Duke. Venice will be allowed to continue governing Milan in the Duke's name. Austrian and Milanese troops are maintaining order in Milan after last months riot.
4. King Louis XIV has asked France's finest legal minds to confirm that he is not bound by the Peace of Ryswick of 1697.
5. The Tsar celebrates Easter in Pskov with the loyal troops of his 3rd Army, the Tsar hopes to maintain good relations with France and England despite the ongoing conflict.
6. Cardinal-General Giulio Alberoni has assumed leadership of the Spanish government in the name of the Infanta Christina. The Cardinal-General has suspended all offensive military action against England and will send a representative to the peace talks in Vienna. He has sworn to protect the Infanta's inheritance, which makes the French ambassadors enquiry about ownership of Flanders somewhat indelicate.
7. Despite the peace talks, the war in North America continues, English, French troops and their native allies continue to massacre each other on the frontier.
8. An Austrian ambassador has presented himself to Abyssinian Emperor.
9. After a short interlude, Lord Fong has now turned his eye towards events in the Moghul Empire. Fong has dismissed the Hindu rioters as ignorant peasants fully deserving the wrath of the dread lord.

Jason wrote:Apols  

Lurgei is a variation on Lurgy https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lurgy  what's odd is it's an invented word from "The Goon Show" (one of the greatest comedy creations of all time and an inspiration for Monty Python) but since the 1970s and perhaps before, having the "lurgy" was a general way in the UK of saying you weren't feeling well, whether a cold, the flu, stomach bug.  

Haggis-I am sure I won't have to explain to you this culinary delight of Scotland

Buckfast-another odd one, it's actually an alcoholic and caffeinated  tonic water that is made by monks in Devon that is popular with underage teenagers in Scotland.  I had it once and had the urge to rip my teeth out afterwards, why anyone would ever drink it is beyond me...I won't even force French pirates in G10 to drink it

Glasgow-it's Hell, on a bad day, when the toilets are blocked and all the traffic lights are stuck on red...and it's raining...more than usual

I've never heard of "the goon show", but will get over this quickly

Your suppositions on Haggis are right. How could someone imagine to assemble such ingredients in this manner and then eat it is beyond my comprehension. To add Buckfast on this diet is something for real men! you northerners are true sons of Gondor!

Concerning Glasgow, as far as i know, is "the paradise of Scotland and one of the cleanest and best-built cities in Britain" (Dafoe) and "I have never seen any river before that could rival the Clyde as to natural beauty. Never has a stream seen more pleasantly towards the ocean or through a prettier region.". Of course, many pirates seek the delights of the lowlands, in risk of the gallow tho enjoy this beautiful sight

Goldstar wrote:Apr 1705

1.  Peace in our Time?  Both sides in the Franco-English conflict appear to want to at least attend peace talks, but there is some confusion about the venue.  The Emperor has offered to host talks in Vienna, this is acceptable to the UDP, Sweden, Spain and Bavaria, unfortunately the English doubt the Emperors neutrality and have asked Prussia to host the talks.  The French have indicated they are content with the Emperor's neutrality, put will go to Prussia to placate the English.  The Elector of Brandenburg, King in Prussia has made no indication that he will host any talks and the Emperor has invited him to Vienna to act as a neutral observer.  It is all very confusing.
2.  The Emperor presents the legal case for the transfer of the Duchy of Milan to Austria and implies that King William should keep his nose out of Milanese affairs.  
3.  Despite his show of bluster last month the Doge of Venice agrees to sign the peace of Milan, recognizing the Emperor as the sovereign Duke.  Venice will be allowed to continue governing Milan in the Duke's name.  Austrian and Milanese troops are maintaining order in Milan after last months riot.
4.  King Louis XIV has asked France's finest legal minds to confirm that he is not bound by the Peace of Ryswick of 1697.  
5.  The Tsar celebrates Easter in Pskov with the loyal troops of his 3rd Army, the Tsar hopes to maintain good relations with France and England despite the ongoing conflict.
6.  Cardinal-General Giulio Alberoni has assumed leadership of the Spanish government in the name of the Infanta Christina.  The Cardinal-General has suspended all offensive military action against England and will send a representative to the peace talks in Vienna.  He has sworn to protect the Infanta's inheritance, which makes the French ambassadors enquiry about ownership of Flanders somewhat indelicate.
7.  Despite the peace talks, the war in North America continues, English, French troops and their native allies continue to massacre each other on the frontier.
8.  An Austrian ambassador has presented himself to Abyssinian Emperor.
9.  After a short interlude, Lord Fong has now turned his eye towards events in the Moghul Empire.  Fong has dismissed the Hindu rioters as ignorant peasants fully deserving the wrath of the dread lord.

Seems to me that G9 is getting more populated and active now. Were Prussia and Venice active also last year?

I've just picked up Shantung Province, China (as a couple of you already know). Playing as Lord Yea

Venice and Prussia both seemed active in the first six moths of the game, Venice in particular was very active. Then both went quiet. It could be that those players were keeping their heads low. I am not convinced that Prussia is still played, the impression might be due to Russia trying to target all the potential allies around Sweden.

Basileus wrote:Venice and Prussia both seemed active in the first six moths of the game, Venice in particular was very active. Then both went quiet. It could be that those players were keeping their heads low. I am not convinced that Prussia is still played, the impression might be due to Russia trying to target all the potential allies around Sweden.

nahhh

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:I've just picked up Shantung Province, China (as a couple of you already know). Playing as Lord Yea

Lord Fong rejoices at the appointment of Lord Yea...truly the Empire is now twice blessed

May 1705

1. The English Fleet in Portsmouth has Mutinied, demanding prize money and an increased rum ration.

2. The Scots demand that the French stop supporting the Jacobite cause and recognise King William as the true King of Scotland.

3. The Elector of Bavaria inspects the Reicharmee contingent in Munster, praising their service to the Reich before departing to meet his ally King Louis XIV in France. The Bishop of Munster thinks the Elector would make a noble Prince of Flanders and hopes to see it restored to the HRE as soon as possible. Brunswicker and Hessian mercenary troops in the Emperor's employ appear to be marching west to join the Reicharmee.

4. Lawyers have advised King Louis XIV that he is not bound by any treaty prior to 1700, he is therefore not bound by the Treaty of Ryswick and he may support the Jacobites as he feels fit. King Louis XIV considers this to be true but intends to seek independent legal advice. Flanders is now a French possession and King Louis XIV has stated his intension to make Maximillian of Bavaria its Prince. If Flanders is indeed a members of the HRE surely only the Emperor can grant such a title?

5. Speaking of Emperor Leopold, he still resides in Milan, donating money to the arts, whilst building a Palace and Opera House. The Milanese nobility are less than ecstatic with their new Duke, voicing the opinion that the office became extinct under Venetian rule. The constitutional status of the new Duke and the existing administration remains confused, but the Emperor is less confused and has declared himself Duke of Milan in Law and in fact. The rumoured presence of an Austrian Army in the city and the fact that the Milanese army is paid by the Emperor may be a factor in changing the nobilities attitude.

6. The Doge declares that the tax on Austrian merchants is to be reduced to 5%, but declines to call the Senate into session as the recent treaty with Austria is unpopular with the nobility.

7. King Joseph Hapsburg, declares that the peace conference in Vienna is on hold pending news from the King in Prussia. England refused to attend the Vienna conference as King William distrusts the Emperors motives and wishes Prussia to host the conference. The King in Prussia agrees to host such a conference, but states he would quite like to annex Sweden's lands in Northern Germany. Will the Swedes now refuse to attend because they doubt Prussia's neutrality?

8. Cardinal-General Giuilio Alberoni is confirmed as the new Primer Secretario de Estado del Imperio Espanol, before the Dowager-Queen and various Grandees of the Spanish Empire. The Cardinal announces that money will be invested in restoring the glory of the Spanish church, restoring its status as the 1st child of Rome. Various other reforms will follow and the French ambassador is also reassured that the status of Spanish Flanders will be settle amicably. News of a Bank failure in Spanish Portobello has caused some alarm.

9. Despite the peace talks a bloody war of raids and reprisals continues to rage in North America.

10. The Tsar visits his vast new estate at Molgovo in the company of Helena Skowronska.

11. The Moghul government appears to have financial difficulties. The rebel city of Dacca has been warned to return to obedience or face the wraith of the Great Moghul.

12. Lord Fong has arrived in Peking to kowtow before the holder of the mandate of heaven, the Qing Emperor. Either China is infested with bandits or Lord Fong doesn't trust his fellow governor as he feels the need to travel with a 3000 strong cavalry escort.

13. In Japan the Shogun's justice is visited upon five minor dimayo who have failed to pay their debts.


4.

Typical Barbarian slander against the Great Lord Fong.

As a governor within the Eternal Empire, Lord Fong is truly a man of standing, far beyond that of the mere Duke of Austria or the King of rains-swept islands on the edge of Europe. As such he is worthy of travelling with an appropriate-sized escort. That the petty barbarian lords, with their insignificant armies, are amazed at the size of this escort shows how pitiful their forces are. To Lord Fong his escort is but a single squadron of the hosts he commands on behalf of the Emperor.