The Age of Enlightenment. Game 9.

My usual round up will follow.
August 1705 Madrid.
The French Ambassador states that under semi Salic law, Dauphin Louis of France is the true heir of Carlos II and the entire Spanish Empire. Infanta Christina is to be placed aside and the Cortez is encouraged to support the French. Why King Louis XIV has suddenly decided to press this claim might have something to do with the terms of his newly signed peace with England. We await European reaction with baited breath.

Interesting play, but Queen Isabella would beg to differ on that.

A risky strategy, based on my G10 experience. French player went for broke, which had short term gains followed with a total collapse in honour score (volcano eruption implies 1 or 0). Major overreach seems to play against the big player positions (I’m guessing RW would not want a single player knocking out several players from a game, as bad commercially).

Kerensky wrote:A risky strategy, based on my G10 experience. French player went for broke,  which had short term gains followed with a total collapse in honour score (volcano eruption implies 1 or 0). Major overreach seems to play against the big player positions (I’m guessing RW would not want a single player knocking out several players from a game, as bad commercially).

I thought that a low honour score was normally indicated by revolts, riots in the Streets, Parliaments always voting against your proposals, ships sailing off to turn pirate and the Janissary Corp turning its cooking pots up side down! Mind you I have had upside down cooking pots when my honour was close to twenty. While volcano's and other natural disasters indicate problems with economic health?

This would certainly seem to be the case in G10 were in the last couple of turns we have had a Vulcano on "Spanish" territory and thousands of Spanish have left for Portugal to get away from dire economic conditions at home. Guess having famines and a government which does nothing about famines, English attacks on Gib and can not even pick a legitimate Catholic heir and crown him tends to dent economic confidence!

Commercial problem for one RW with G10 is that normally Spain is a bit of a money spinner for the GM (He has certainly taken lots of mine in G7) but in G10 its in such a mess......general view is that both its Economic Health and its Honour is rock bottom plus its got the odd small diplomatic problem to sort out....... that no one wants to go near the position.

Mind you I still think if someone was brave enough to pick up Spain in G10 most other players would be fairly kind and Spain can recover.

Ref Spain in G8 - If its been accepted for a number of years that the "miracle baby" is the legitimate daughter of Carlos II the French claim would seem to be rubbish....Anyone recall Queen Isabella of Castille? Except in Flanders were a case can be made that a limited form of Salic Law applies.

Actually was not the point of the Spanish Govt at the time committing high treason and trying to exchange the real baby for a boy to stop Philip of Anjou inheriting Flanders while his young female relation got the rest (Bit like Queen Victoria getting the British Empire but not the Hanover in 1830 due to the law of Hanover being anti female.......mind wonders about German Unification if Victoria had inherited).

I hear you Stuart, not my typical expectation, more a deduction on my part. Sicily has been on my sheet for around 9 months, and is included in my EH & Honour, which are both not in the danger zone. I deduced the flag raising in Palermo was the external factor that triggered the eruption. Never really seen true random, always seems to be a driver. Could be wrong, but the best I can see in the tea leaves!
& on G9, with you & Deacon. Isabella, the Queen of Castile that completed the Reconquista & commenced the discovery & colonisation of Spanish America. A fairly decent example of a Spanish Queen.

I thought you could have made a case at the time that the baby wasn't real and protest her, claiming carlos was incapable of fathering a child. But I think enough time has passed that this is hard argument to make now.

August 1705

1. England and France have agreed peace terms and the Anglo-French war is over. No great battles occurred, some skirmishing in the colonies and heavy losses to the English Merchant Marine, a white peace seems to have been the result. Somewhat confusingly Scotland is still at war with France and England is still at war with Spain and Bavaria.
2. The Spanish diplomatic corps continues to be active in the states of the Reich, but the Archbishop of Cologne demands an apology for past wrongs.
3. The Reicharmee reform committee agrees to put the Emperors proposals before the Imperial Diet. The Emperor wants the army doubled to 80,000 men and 40 ship Reichsnavee formed, Leopold has selflessly agreed to fund this purely defensive forced.
4. Prince Eugene army has arrived at Ulm and a force of Brunswickers in Austrian pay has joined the Reicharmee detachment in Munster after becoming lost.
5. The King of Sweden remains in Rostock, which appears to becoming a home from home for the Swedes. King Charles XII implies that Tsar Peter Talks the Talk, but has falled to Walk the Walk.
6. The Cossack rebels or true Russian patriots revolt has spread to Kharkov.
7. The young Infanta and her Cardinal-General have arrive in Seville, it appears every church in Spain has been renovated by the most Pious Government. The old rogue Cardinal Portocarrero has been pardoned and encouraged to return to Spain. Hopefully the Infanta’s government will not regret inviting the arch-plotter back home, especially after the French Ambassadors statement.
8. Spain apparently holds a large number of Venetian bounds and they want their dividends paid promptly.
9. A Spanish mission arrives in China seeking an audience with Mighty Lord Fong, only to find he is indisposed in Peking with his Liege Lord the Manchu Emperor.
10. King Louis XIV lauds his loyal ally Bavaria or alternatively butters up his German puppet Elector. Always nice to have an Elector in your pocket in case thing go pair shaped with the Reich.

"purely defensive" 😂😂🤣

September 1705

1. In a most passionate speech to the heads of the Spanish Government, the Cardinal-General appears to be calling for a new crusade by Christian Europe against the Turk. The Cardinal-General envisions a joint Crusade with the Emperor to liberate Constantinople and Jerusalem itself.
2. The English and French are now at peace, the Scots are less pleased with being left high and dry, and now wish to withdraw their declaration of war against France. The declaration by the English government that it considers Scotland part of it territory is unlikely to improve relations.
3. King Charles of Sweden declares that Russian ships are band from the Baltic Sea, close to 70,000 Swedish troops are massed on the Livonia’s border.
4. The Tsars troubles continue, a rebel Cossack horde has burned the shipyard in Voronezh, the Tsar’s personal yacht only narrowly escaped destruction. Old believers are also trying to cause trouble in Pskov.
5. The Spanish Government rejects the French claim to the throne, the Infanta is the true heir to the Spanish inheritance. Totally unconnected the Spanish have suddenly become very friendly towards the infanta’s Kindly uncle Leopold. Declaring a policy of alliance with the HRE and asking Archduke Karl to visit his young cousin.
6. The Emperor remains silent on the Spanish issue, but launches yet another unity and recruiting drive amongst the states of the Reich.

Love the account of G9 with Cuddly Uncle Leo and the brave and heroic trying Cardinal-General trying to save the inheritence of the little Infanta from dastardly French Lawyers claiming Salic Law in Flanders and the like.

Also like the fact that the Swedes and Cossacks are acting tough, mean and not rolling over to have their tummy tickled by the Czar.

But what I want to know if were at the Ottomans?

It is giving me a great outlet for my religious oratory. It feels more appropriate, as a Cardinal, to let fly with biblical quotations. & to defend a five year old girl, what greater cause...
We need an Ottoman ruler for G9 Stuart, can I tempt you in to battle the Cardinal & the Emperor? It would liven it up tremendously!

OCT 1705 Kultur und kampf.

1.  The Anglo-Spanish conflict continues with a Naval engagement outside Cadiz. The larger English Fleet had the better of it against light Spain forces, but there appears to be as serious problem with the English Navy's cannon.

2.  Clearly trying to straggle the Russian threat at birth, 57 Swedish Line ships have appeared before Copenhagen. The Swedish Admiral has demanded that the Russian Red Fleet in the port scuttle or prepare to be destroyed.  The Russian Admiral has refused and has asked the Danes for protection.

3.  Cardinal Portocarrero is leaving his English exile to return to Spain.  After being granted a pardon by the current Spanish Government he is returning to Madrid to resume his position as Primate of Spain.

4.  The Dutch government has opened a new Art Gallery to display the most important works of the Dutch Master, only to find that King William, the Stadtholder has already taken one of the greatest works to London.

5.  The Emperor's attempt to squeeze more troops out of the states of the Reich has meet with mixed result, the Ruler of Baden-Durlach is especially bitter about the Emperor's past interventions.

6.  The French ambassador to the Reich Diet, has stated that he supports the proposed increases to the Riecharmee, but if any Reich troops enter Flanders, it will be seen as an act of war?

7.  The Duke of Wurtemburg is less than pleased by Prince Eugene visiting his capital at the head of a large Army.  Prince Eugene presents the Duke with a set of Siverware and entertains the local nobility.

8.  The Emperor once more re-enforces Vienna's position as the Kultural capital of the Reich and perhaps western Europe.  New works have been sponsored for the Imperial Orchestra and Vivaldi.  The Maestro George Handel has arrived in Vienna to perform with the Imperial Orchestra and a new Opera has been commissioned from the Scatlitti's.  A new Theatre is also being opened.

9.  The Cardinal-General has undertaken to provide the young Infanta with a wide education to prepare her to lead the Spanish Empire to glory.


10.  Due to the high costs of the new crusade, the Spanish Treasury has announced new tax rises for the nobility, the Portuguese government accuses Spanish shipping of falsely flying under their colours.


11.  The Tsar wishes to meet with Orthodox Priest leading the Old Believer sect, only to find he has left Pskov.  The Tsar has noticeably started to grow a beard, has he renounced the western heresy and is now returning to the true traditions of Holy Muscovy.

12.  The Serf revolt spreads north of Moscow and Voronezh is now under the control of the Don Cossack rebels.  Are these local revolts or have they been instigated by the increasingly aggressive Lion of the North.


13.  Ever the friend of the poor the Moghul state has cut the tax on the common people.

The engagement at Cadiz reminded me of Beatty’s comments @ the Battle of Jutland.
After the suspected destruction, by magazine the explosion, of a third British Battlecruiser,
‘There is something wrong with our bloody ships today!’

Sent from Topic'it App

Kerensky wrote:The engagement at Cadiz reminded me of Beatty’s comments @ the Battle of Jutland.
After the suspected destruction, by magazine the explosion, of a third  British Battlecruiser,
‘There is something wrong with our bloody ships today!’

Sent from Topic'it App

Apparently Spanish recovery & morale following this engagement was also greatly helped by their new mobile hospital unit.....see picture above of Spanish Surgeon-General Kerensky and Officers.

HaHa! Sadly over a decade ago. Certainly improved Surgeon-General Kerensky’s morale no end.
Nurse on the left is now my wife & Nurse on the right is my oldest friend in Singapore, and Godmother of my first Son. It was her bar, The Hideout on Circular Road, if memory serves correct.

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I sometimes think I try to play too nice in the LGDR world, but with the next turn coming up and previous messages in this flow could I aim this at Deacon and Kerensky.....


having finally had a chance to do some minimal research do you refer to Queen Isabella I of Castille (who ascended the throne in 1474) ?

As far as I can see, she was the daughter of John II of Castile, and ascended the throne because her step brother Henry IV had died (in 1474) and her brother Alfonso had already died in 1468. So there was no male heir from John II's line.

France isn't disputing that a female can ascend the throne, but only in the absence of a male heir - under Spanish Law....which there is !


Finally, the political unification of Spain appears to have happened under Isabellas grandson, so she did not ascend the SPANISH throne as such.


My limited research could be missing a lot of other detail!


Reasons for France accepting the infanta since 1701 can not be discussed on the messageboard and were subject to private correspondence and agreements between Madrid and Versailles

Surgeon-General Kerensky wishes Count de Monet a Happy Thursday.

If you will forgive me, reading the tenor of your communique, I will save my research responses for in-game counter moves.

I am now off for cupcakes with the Infanta!

not planning on using any of the info in my last message to reinforce the Bourbon claim - I don't think Isabella has been raised in-game ? I just wanted to understand if my game position had missed anything historically that put the claim of the Infanta legally ahead of the Bourbon male heir. Previous posts on Isabella suggested there was a historical precedent of a female heir over-riding a male heir.

Surgeon-General Kerensky has been advised by Nursey not to help someone try to purloin the Infanta's throne.


And as life has taught me, Nursey is often right...

November 1705.

1.  The Spanish Navy in Cadiz had a cunning plan to take advantage of the English Fleets Gunnery problem, unfortunately the English sail away before the trap can be enacted.  A small number of English Frigates are destroyed, the cause of much rejoicing in Cadiz.  A new English Fleet appears at the end of the month, have the Spanish Navy assaulted their gaoler.
2.  The Scottish government seeks peace with the French after strongly rejecting King William suggestion that England absorbs Scotland.  The people feel betrayed by London.
3.  King Charles XII leaves Rostock for an unknown destination, meanwhile his ambassador seeks an audience with King Louis XIV.  Russian Cossacks arrest a wandering Swedish sketch artist in Russia.
4.  Louis of the House of Wittelsbach, brother of the Elector of Bavaria is enthroned as the new Elector-Archbishop of Liege-Cologne.  The new Elector-Archbishop pledges his loyalty to the Emperor and the Reich, whilst thanking his noble brother.  Clearly this Prince of the Church believes in covering all the bases.  Alms are given to the poor and new reforms promised.
5.  King Joseph Hapsburg calls on the Elector of Brandenburg, King in Prussia and requests a private meeting.  Beware a Hapsburg bearing gifts.

6.  The Danish Admiralty quotes scripture in its reply to the Swedish Admiral's ultimatum to the Russia Fleet, basically we will defend our guests.  The Swedes reply that they will hold their hand, but will sink the Russian fleet if it enters the Baltic Sea, which apparently belongs to Sweden.  The Emperor stands by his Danish ally with a large sums of money to prepare their forces.
7.  Austrian Armies march westward from Bavaria and Stuttgart. Saxon troops have apparently joined the Reicharmee, the Emperor granting an audience to the young Saxon General Maurice de Saxe.  The Emperor is disturbed by the Price of Palz lack of commitment to the security of the Reich.
8.  John Churchill, Chancellor and War Minster of England has journeyed to Vienna to see George Frendric Handel.  Clearly the war with Spain and worsening diplomatic situation is of secondary importance to the English government.
9.  Unsurprisingly the Elector of Bavaria has declared his support for the French claim to the Spanish throne, implying that Infanta Christiana is not the natural child of Carlos II.  This somewhat contradicts the French view that the Dauphin is the true heir irrespective of Christiania's legitimacy.
10.  The delegates of Liege-Cologne and Spain in the Reich Diet strongly object to the French threat to declare war on any nation moving troops into Flanders.  They argue that Flanders is a part of the Holy Roman Empire and the Emperor may act as he see necessary to defend the states of the Reich.  The Spanish delegate declares that the Infanta's government does not consider itself bound by any promises made to France by the late Jose Rosales and that Flanders in an eternal part of Spain and the Holy Roman Empire.  Popular opinion in Bavaria and Liege-Cologne is that a Tripium be enacted and the Reicharmee be raised to 120,000 men in accordance with the constitution of 1681.
11.  The English appear to have rebuffed the Spanish peace offer, the Spanish accuse them of being in league with the Muslim Moroccan Corsairs.  The Cardinal-General defends his decision to raise taxes to pay for the war and coming crusade, he also admits that junior naval officers may have mistakenly sailed under the Portuguese flag without the authority of the government.  The Infanta is having a party, all members of the diplomatic corps are invited and encourage to bring gifts.
12.  The Tsar is actively seeking to reverse the reforms to the Orthodox Church instigated in 1666, much to the confusion of senior churchmen.   Clearly seeing the Serf revolt as a matter for the Police rather than the Army a force of Watchmen sets out to intercept the rebel serfs, with mixed results.  A force of Tsarist Cossack finds the gates of Voronezh closed to them.  The ever loyal Hetman Mazeppa is at their head.  The Tsar refuses to recognise the Swedish ban on Russia ships entering the Baltic and threatens war if Denmark is attacked.
13.  A major slave revolt has broken out in Cartagena, meanwhile Spanish conquistadors land in Singapore, saying they come in peace.

Sorry, not really following this thread as much, since I'm not playing in game 9.

In regard to Philip's claim to the throne of spain, I would point at : [url=Wikipedia on Philip V of Spain]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_V_of_Spain[/url]

His claim on the throne is pretty distant and tenuous. There is no direct line between Philip and the throne of Spain. In the absence of anything better, he had a claim. In the face of a real daughter, not so much.

That, at least, is my reading. I am hardly a scholar of Salic law, so take my opinions for what you paid for them!

Deacon wrote:
Sorry, not really following this thread as much, since I'm not playing in game 9.

In regard to Philip's claim to the throne of spain, I would point at : [url=Wikipedia on Philip V of Spain]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_V_of_Spain[/url]

His claim on the throne is pretty distant and tenuous. There is no direct line between Philip and the throne of Spain. In the absence of anything better, he had a claim. In the face of a real daughter, not so much.

That, at least, is my reading. I am hardly a scholar of Salic law, so take my opinions for what you paid for them!

Since Philip of Anjou and everyone else claim to the throne of Spain was via Female relations no one is claiming strict Salic Law applies in Spain prior to its introduction by Philip himself.

Think the problem is with other parts of Carlos II inheritence esp Flanders were a stronger case can be made for saying that Salic Law does apply and a female can not inherit.

Thought this was the reason why the Spanish Govt swapped the "Miracle Baby" for a Boy.

Still baffled that with two adult male hairs to pick from so many Spanish Governments have to go in for "miracle" babies and dodgy documents. In G2 the great fear was not that the French had too much influence over Spain but that Philip of Anjou had too much influence in France, while in G7 its probably much the samefeeling in the Empire.

From p10 of the Glory and Argument Agema Supplement to the Game

The Spanish Succession according to prevailing Spanish Law. Since the personal union of the Crown of Castille and the Crown of Aragon the heir to the throne of Spain is the person closest to the King according to male-preference cognatic primogeniture. Given the death of Prince Joseph of Bavaria in 1699, the next in line given this rule would be Louis of France, the heir of Louis XIV of France in 1700! This is because while under this system women can inherit the throne, they can only do so if there are no living male heirs (Historical note – the system of precedence in Spain changed after Philip de Bourbon became king a few years later to be as in France, that is under Salic Law which excludes females entirely!).

I think that that (an Agema rule supplement) makes it clear that Spanish Law says, even with a daughter, if there is a male line to the Spanish throne it takes precedence. It even names the Grand Dauphin !

Jan 1706.

1.  The ever loyal and true Hetman Mazeppa dies of his wounds after leading Tsarist Cossacks against a superior force of rebels before the town of Voronezh,  A Tsarist victory is claimed but Voronezh remains in rebel hands.  The Russian Army of Kiev has placed the rebel city of Poltava under blockade and the Tsar has journeyed to Moscow to reassure the nobility that better time are coming.  Meanwhile a rebel priest demands that the Tsar returns to the old ways.  Is Russia entering a new time of troubles.

2.  Totally unconnected with the unrest the King of Sweden is encamped in Livonia with his army, demanding the Russians withdraw their threats or face war.

3.  Depending on your politics either King James the II and VIII or the deposed despot James Stuart has passed away in Versailles.  The French government has offered grants of grain and money to promote population growth at home and in Canada, more importantly this years wine has been declared a late vintage.
4. The Emperor has sent deputations to various Imperial Cities to meet with the city councils, meanwhile the Bishop of Munster and the Archbishop-Elector of Liege-Cologne have offered support for the Reicharmee.  

5.  The Emperor is once more beating the drum of Reich unity, a Reich postal Service, Bank and customs union are to be proposed to the Imperial diet as well as a Rhine- Danube barge canal.  In a selfless act Austria will pay for all these projects, do you want to owe the Emperor money or have your mail carried by Austrian Hussars?  Not content with importing coffee from Abyssinia, the Emperor has requested recruiting rights, will we see Askaris on the Rhine?

6.  The slow train wreck that is the Spanish Succession appears to be splitting Catholic Europe asunder.  The Pope has declared that as the Queen-Dowager has not reported to the Holy Inquisition in Rome he cannot confirm Infanta's Christiana legitimacy.  In response the Spanish Government and Church has denounced the French accusations, claiming that France and King Louis XIV are in the grip of the Jansenist Heresy.  The Cardinal-General was less than diplomatic about King Louis XIV age and mental state.

7.  The issue has split the house of Wittelsbach with the Elector of Bavaria backing France, whilst his brother the Archbishop of Liege-Cologne is backing Spain.  Some have not forgotten France's rampages into the Reich in the last few decades.   The Emperor has thus far maintained a diplomatic silence on the matter.

8.  Almost forgotten the Anglo-Spanish war continues with English troops occupying Cartagena and sinking blockships in front of Cadiz harbour.

9.  The Emperor queries the status of the amusing Manchu Official Lord Fong unfortunately the Jesuits are unaware of his status,

Nice report from Goldstar but their seems to have been a worrying lack of cultural Enlightenment going on this month.......are standards in G9 starting to slip?

Hope the Emperor can get back to this Opera House but when the Czar could not be bothered to make time for his baber it was probably a sign that standards are starting to wane.

From a outside prospective it is hard to work out if this is the GNW and the WSS six years late or the war of the Quadruple Alliance early.

But what it does seem to show is that any Spanish Government who arranges miracle babies and dodgy inheritence treaties rather than picking either the Bourbon or the Hapsburg heir leaves a hostage to future fortune.

In the absence of DNA testing seems a lot could now depend on if the Dowager Queen of Spain (And the Sister in Law of the Emperor) is willing to lie to Pope about who the father of her baby is?

Odd how he never asked before? Have the French finally dug up the dirt on the Holy Father? Will the name of this thread need to be amended to : The Age of Scandal. Game 9