Game 10

I do think it's a bit off the main track of Glory, but it would be fascinating to play either a Chinese or Japanese position that embraced western technology and engaged, rather than being insular.

As far as I know this is the only instance of an Imperial Chinese trip to Africa - China then becoming isolationist, or the like, after the 7th Voyage returned home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He



In regard the various ways of playing Rozwi, this is how I'm going to play it.

Rozwi's characters are all going to be Black, Bantu-speaking, Tribal indigents of Africa. We are only concerned with our small corner of the World (more on this in the upcoming turn, in reply to Portugal's governor asking questions in the newspaper). If other players come to us and play nice, then we will welcome them and be good hosts in return. We don't do naval stuff, we will contract others to carry our goods or import for us. Other players need to remember that I am strongly roleplaying Rozwi, so we don't speak any European/Middle Eastern/Indian/Asian languages - you either need to learn to speak Bantu or assist us in learning your language (though we now know Portuguese to a good level, and have access to southern African non-Bantu languages). Rozwi is only at a basic industrial and cultural level, do not expect any similarities to European countries that are being played in the game. We live in mud/grass huts. We don't wear much in the way of clothing. Food is basic and there is little variation. Life is hard and only as enjoyable as what you can make yourself. We don't have much in the way of ability to learn 'modern' 1700s ideas and technological methods - so there's probably not much use in offering to teach us how to make something if we didn't know how to make the most basic example already (or, it'll probably take many, many years to teach us something that is completely new to us and takes some time to understand that it isn't actually Magic).
The below image is near-enough what you should expect when coming to Rozwi: "Miniature recreation of a Zulu village in Shakaland, Kwa-Zulu Natal, South Africa"



My Rozwi is strongly influenced by E.A. Ritter's 'Shaka Zulu' [book] and the televised 1986 mini-series 'Shaka Zulu' - both are now easily available to lend/purchase, the TV show is quite a good watch in my opinion.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shaka-Zulu-E-Ritter/dp/014004826X

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shaka-Zulu-DVD-Edward-Fox/dp/B000260OT4/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2ZPHD88RAFV7VDZBFTF6

Hope this helps players and forum members

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:As far as I know this is the only instance of an Imperial Chinese trip to Africa - China then becoming isolationist, or the like, after the 7th Voyage returned home.

If castration was part of the deal, no doubt china became "isolationist", especially for the lack of volunteers i suppose...

Yes, castration would definitely have an effect on the seamen (groan. bad pun on semen, I know)

Amused me that Wikipedia lists that admiral chap's occupation as Eunuch. I bet you don't see that one listed at the Job Centre anymore!

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:

Yes, castration would definitely have an effect on the seamen (groan. bad pun on semen, I know)

Amused me that Wikipedia lists that admiral chap's occupation as Eunuch. I bet you don't see that one listed at the Job Centre anymore!

Are you suggesting it would be an element to pop up in a resume?

Chap in the photo would not be popular with Shaka Zulu.......he is wearing shoes! That type of behaviour could get you impaled in Shaka Zulu's day.

The Court Eunuch's remained an important part of the Imperial Govt right up to almost the end of the Empire and I was wondering if Lord Fong belongs to the Eurnach faction or their rivals in the Military and the Scholar-Mandarin Class?

Ref the big Chinese Voyages one theory is that these lavishly funded trips were viewed by their Scholar/Mandarin Rivals as a jolly for the Court Eurnach's and a way for the Eurnach's to help themselves to chunks of the treasury. Since Lord Fong seems to want to restart these jolly boat trips for Eurnach's is he one of them??????? Could explain a lot:suspect:

These days people seem to view the ending of the Great Voyages and the divertion of funding away from the Ming Navy and onto the move of the Ming Dynasty back to the North of China with the building of the Great Wall of China as a bad error and a missed opportunity. But to be fair...... Europe & the Middle East in C15 was not exactly unknown to China following the Mongol Empire or a huge untaped market crying out for new trade routes with China. And when the Mongols have just cut your Army to bits and captured the Emperor as they did in 1449 you can sort of understand why rivals of proto Lord Fong going : "How much ????!!!! to visit a place half of which pays tribute to the Golden Horde. Fong has been hitting the opium again"

I can only speak for G9...but there at least I can assure you Lord Fong is FULLY intact! Though he is also keen to recreate Zheng He's voyages, not only the historical ones but also the "he went EVERYWHERE" ones. Just wait to I unleash my secret weapons...the navies of Europe should just surrender now...

If I recall aright, Zheng He was an eunuch long before he was an admiral...

I don't have a high enough honour score to ask my chaps to fight bare-footed. I had my ambassador-at-large wearing woven grass sandals when he first visited the Portuguese governor, but I'm not certain what footwear - if any - was the norm for the area at our time.

Thankfully Rozwi didn't practice the various forms of genital mutilation that can and does happen to men and women. Just looked up female genital mutilation and wikipedia is showing Tanzania as the closest to Rozwi's lands, so it looks like the old Nguni love-play can still be adopted for my roleplaying should I choose.

So, if Lord Fong isn't singing in the highest of tones, is he a lotus-feet fancier instead?

Back in my "Assyria's End" days my Shaknu had his favourite slave castrated. Quite the gift to give a loved one...

[starts a new topic ... 'Taking Period Roleplay Too Far!']

Well, in Russia we do experience some events of male genital mutilation. First and only known cause is coniugal infidelty.

Unfortunately, Eunuch admirals are as crappy as not eunuch ones!

A quick google seems to confirm that by game period, Eunuchs were mostly the functionaries of the Forbidden City. They wouldn't be governors.

Deacon wrote:
A quick google seems to confirm that by game period, Eunuchs were mostly the functionaries of the Forbidden City. They wouldn't be governors.

A quick google would also seem to suggest the Carlos II of Spain could not have Children, bastards can not be made King of Spain, and Spain and Portugal did not have any secret succession treaties but in game they keep showing up!

So I dont see any reason why Lord Fong could not be a ex Imperial Eunuch demoted and "exiled" to the sticks. If he is a bit lacking is the area of most importance to a Eunuch this would make a even better story (for Ming Propaganda).......since some of the Imperial Ladies were reputed to have favourite Eunuchs some of whom may have been a bit lacking in basic Eunuchness.

Oddly Chinese Eunuchs could some in different types from "fully Shaved" with everything removed to just having a "part Shave" to remove the balls. It was also important to keep all your bits pickled so you could be buried whole ready for the after life.

I look forward to the theft of Lord Fong's pickle jar and the shock and horror when said jar is found to be empty

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Back in my "Assyria's End" days my Shaknu had his favourite slave castrated. Quite the gift to give a loved one...

[starts a new topic ... 'Taking Period Roleplay Too Far!']

On subject of taking the period roleplay too far..........since Augustus the Strong Elector of Saxony & King of Poland still holds record for most Children amongst Christain Monarchs I had him have a "bedwarmer" every night as he moved around the Commonwealth.

If the young lady "kindled" (on average every other month) made her an "agent" and head of a trade investment in area Augustus had visited and dished out appointments to her male relatives using his Royal Powers of Patronage.

Not sure Richard was that in favour of my role play as Augustus the Strong or considered it a dodgy long term plan to take over the Polish Church and build a majority in the diet, as Augustus honour score seemed to yo-yo to a marked degree.

In G10 hope to get greater reward for building a Croc Pool in ditch ready to throw in African Chiefs who fail to listen to the fair and reasonable approaches of French Diplomacy. Actually, if certain Spanish NPC Mayor's and Town Council's do not start to see the sweet reason of proposals if may not be African Chiefs going for the first paddle

Generally speaking however over the top role playing in Agema games is dominated by Scabble.......Along with Vampire nuns, mad med in their flying machines, Triads, Tuggee & Germanic Politicians with Tuba's we have seen the some Characters develop "cricket phobia"! A totally rational fear of being in any territory with cricket pitches.

Not that I am trying to worry any of you...but in some of his nastier versions (in G2 for example) Lord Fong believed all barbarians were guilty and could never be proved innocent...and got his kicks out of arranging for barbarian merchants in Canton to have their bits cut off for crimes like not admitting how wonderful Lord Fong was...

I think its time to bring back those time honoured principles...

>>A quick google would also seem to suggest the Carlos II of Spain could not have Children, bastards can not be made King of Spain, and Spain and Portugal did not have any secret succession treaties but in game they keep showing up!<<

Jesting aside, history stops at January 1700 in the game. If it happens after that, history is no longer a safe bet. Your knowledge of real world history doesn't mean that's what's happening in game isn't the real deal in game.

So the questionable birth kid in G10 might be Carlos' real kid. I think we all doubt it, but it could be so. Secret treaties discovered later could have been written. Players are free to assert what they like and take the consequences for what they say.

But I'd point out at least in Lord Fong's case, all players get to decide their starting setup. So you can call him a Eunuch, but you don't get to decide he is one :-).

(A rather horrifying fact about that 'pickle jar' was that at least in the later periods, the eunuchs of the forbidden city were required to wear them around their necks at all times....)

Deacon wrote:
I do think it's a bit off the main track of Glory, but it would be fascinating to play either a Chinese or Japanese position that embraced western technology and engaged, rather than being insular.

I have always taken a selective approach to barbarian technology, obtaining those that China might find useful. I tend to find these are primarily modern flintlocks and artillery-most of the rest of the time there isn't that much difference in Chinese and barbarian technology. In G2 I did obtain western shipbuilding technology but in that game China couldn't build anything larger than corvettes. In later games where I can build larger junks that hasn't felt necessary (though Chinese positions can't build normal SoLs; they can build all types of frigates, a "war junk" of 1000 crew and 40 guns and after research a "large war junk" of 1500 crew and 60 guns). I often feel (firearms aside) in the game Chinese technology isn't so much behind the barbarians as much as 'different'.

Chinese insularism can be a bit hard to overcome in game. A lot of it is enforced by the "Emperor" so it would be difficult/impossible for a governor to suddenly open up his province to foreigners (though Korea, I think has more freedom and might manage it). At the start it is also a form of protection though, helps give you time to build up your province (being so undeveloped in many ways). It's also a bit hard not to be insular as often the nearest other active position is India or if Spain or Portugal are being active colonially.

But I'd always anyone to try a Chinese position, a challenge but fun

Deacon wrote:>>A quick google would also seem to suggest the Carlos II of Spain could not have Children, bastards can not be made King of Spain, and Spain and Portugal did not have any secret succession treaties but in game they keep showing up!<<

Jesting aside, history stops at January 1700 in the game. If it happens after that, history is no longer a safe bet. Your knowledge of real world history doesn't mean that's what's happening in game isn't the real deal in game.

So the questionable birth kid in G10 might be Carlos' real kid. I think we all doubt it, but it could be so. Secret treaties discovered later could have been written. Players are free to assert what they like and take the consequences for what they say.

But I'd point out at least in Lord Fong's case, all players get to decide their starting setup. So you can call him a Eunuch, but you don't get to decide he is one :-).

(A rather horrifying fact about that 'pickle jar' was that at least in the later periods, the eunuchs of the forbidden city were required to wear them around their necks at all times....)

Deacon, I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one, we are playing an historically based game, but at the same time our player actions mean that the thread of history is torn loose at the 1700 year point. So we can attempt to play in an atmosphere of the historical period, & sit back & watch the game evolve.

Many players have there "views" on the Spanish question, most finding it an unhistorical solution to an historical problem.
Now it appears the problem has landed in the lap of Agema through the actions or inactions of the Pope in Rome(may his house never burn) a decision will be reached in the not too distant future. Will it be an historical or an unhistorical outcome.......

Lord Fong could always put his advisor's through the cough test, to see if he has a Eunuch on hand or not. If you've had an army medical you'll understand what I mean.

I would like to stress that Lord Fong, in G9 at least, is not a eunuch...however when his vast army sacks Vienna as punishment for the Duke of Austria's disrespect then certain prisoners might end up being so...

Do you need to have a good medical service level to allow this kind of treatment to be performed on your prisoners, or is it more of the rusty knife kind of medicine?

I think a lot would depend upon whether you wanted them to survive or not....

But I'd suggest that Lord Fong set the army marching now, because with infantry speeds, it should only take them a decade or two to cross Asia.

Apparently the Chinese had specialists in the matter...with a high survival rate...

Don't worry, the Imperial Navy is quite fast now, esp with its paddlewheel ships...no need to march all the way....

I wonder if the speed of the Navy has anything to do with the threat of said specialists getting a free hand if the crews are not up to speed.

How dare you! The crews are simply motivated by the their love for the Holder of the Mandate of Heaven and, of course, his most loyal servant, the Great Lord Fong!

if only the navies of lesser barbarian nations were so dedicated

Jason wrote:How dare you!  The crews are simply motivated by the their love for the Holder of the Mandate of Heaven and, of course, his most loyal servant, the Great Lord Fong!

if only the navies of lesser barbarian nations were so dedicated

I would have you know that the French Corsair Fleet in G10 motivated by their love for wine, baccy & birds is very dedicated!!....... to their own profit and pleasure:drunken:

Some need to meet the Chinese of Scramble to see what unruly disorganization coupled with "educated" bloviation looks like.

Seem to be running slower again. Turn was due May 18th and I haven't seen it yet.