Game 10

By the way I might like some advice here but I won't tell you everything I'm doing its good to keep some options in the sleeve hidden just in case.

Feel free to private message me if you want to ask questions. Poland and Africa aren't going to interact in game, so I can try to answer any questions you might have.

They might, I'm looking for trade partners here and there in good positions if I end up with goods to trade you might get contact along those lines but military wise I would think its very unlikely unless Poland tries to conquer the known world.

We are a friendly bunch and always happy to give advice to new players

I was rereading Deacon's recent comments and have to agree with his views on the Pope and his influence. However Stuart's comment about the Pope still being an NPC did make me stop and think. I had thought we had a new player but the reasoning on the one-page summary makes sense. Plus, when I think about it, a new player would have to be quite self-assured in themselves to make their presence known by announcing they would resolve the most pressing issue in-game.

Now excuse I'm off to establish a firelighters and firewood kindling production factory.

Unless they are an "old" player ...but new to game 10...just been bombarded with a hundred letters on their first game turn hence the all previous decisions are annulled statement . The Pope I remember already has stated the bourbons have the best case .....the plot thickens ...

Assassinate the Pope, then start the process all over again anyway he will side with any Catholics who bribe him the most first.

Don't give anyone...esp any privateers...ideas

If there is ( open to debate) a new Pope, will it have much of an impact on the game? Confess I haven't played a game with an active Pope. Will it mean if Catholics want to make Cardinals/ Bishops & co. they ahve to ask his permission first, or does the Gallican church have an opt out option on that?

Will it mean a Jacobite cause needs the Popes support to make any head way.

Or will most catholic players simply ignore anything the Pope has to say & continue on regardless & let him sit & burn in Rome?

If Agema are trying a new tact to break the impasse in Spain will an Agema made solution be any easier ot swallow than a player generated one?


Oh, the joys of being a Protestant torch bearer.

I can't help but wonder whether someone is paying for the Pope's actions as part of their (extra) orders.

J Flower wrote:If there is ( open to debate) a new Pope, will it have much of an impact on the game?  Confess I haven't played a game with an active Pope. Will it mean if Catholics want to make Cardinals/ Bishops & co.  they ahve to ask his permission first, or does the Gallican church have an opt out option on that?

Will it mean a Jacobite cause needs the Popes support to make any head way.

Or will most catholic players simply ignore anything the Pope has to say & continue on regardless & let him sit & burn in Rome?

If Agema are trying a new tact to break the impasse in Spain will an Agema made solution be any easier ot swallow than a player generated one?


Oh, the joys of being a Protestant torch bearer.

In reply to the above:

1) Yes you do need the Papal OK to become a Bishop, Cardinal or perhaps more important in the game a Bishop-Prince (Catholic Elector) of the Empire. Basically the Cathedral Chapter sends a name or a couple of names of people it considers suitable and the Pope confirms (or not). With a NPC Pope this is automatic but a PC Pope may be a bit more active

- If the Papacy is going through a corrupt (sorry I mean - needs to raise cash for a Crusade or other good cause) you may have to send a payment to get confirmed in office

- The Gallican Church can only put forward names agreed by the King, it only puts forward one name and the agreement is that the Pope automatically says yes.

Also in theory the Pope has the Power to dismiss Cardinals/Bishops for gross mis-conduct if you are an existing Bishop/Cardinal in France you can only be sacked by the Pope if the King of France agrees. If we ever get a good and holy (PC) Pope who thinks that plotting to ignore Church law on marriage and inheritence in order to committ High Treason is a disgrace to the Church and comes under the heading of gross misconduct Cardinal Portocarrero is in deep trouble!

2) The Duke of Savoy probably just passes on his Jacobite House Guests to Rome with a relief and the restoration of a Catholic Monarchy becomes a Papal Problem.

3) Naturally Catholic rulers with show huge respect for his Holiness ref Spiritual matters..........and bombard him with complaints about the evils of their rivals. And if the Doge of Genoa and his latest Mistress get too frisky with Cardles when visiting Rome his Holiness is very welcome to use the Papal Palace in Avignon.

4) I suspect that if a settlement to the inheritence of Carlos II looks fair to the legitimate heirs and comes nicely wrapped up and packaged in best quality Papal Gift Paper it will make it easier for Catholic Powers to accept.

PS Protestant Torch bearers may find a Player Character and Catholic rulers being told off about their moral failure to be funny. But will they find it so funny if said Pope is a Jacobite? Cardinal Henry Stuart for a top job in the Papacy?

Stuart Bailey wrote:
2)  The Duke of Savoy probably just passes on his Jacobite House Guests to Rome with a relief and the restoration of a Catholic Monarchy becomes a Papal Problem.

PS Protestant Torch bearers may find a Player Character and Catholic rulers being told off about their moral failure to be funny.  But will they find it so funny if said Pope is a Jacobite?  Cardinal Henry Stuart for a top job in the Papacy?    

A Jacobite-backing Pope...or even a Jacobite Pope...think of the fun I'd have with that...not just speeches, I've got whole stand-up routines ready for that one...coming to an 18th C comedy club near you, Lord Melville's One Man Show "A funny thing happened on the way to the burning of Rome".

I suspect we are in for an interesting few months, with some top draw written submissions to our man in Rome. I suspect the form and approach in submissions to Clement will be varied & creative. I think I will hold a few balls & have a few more dalliances to pass the time, until showtime in January...
James/ Genoa

I'm just looking forward to the Christmas/New Years Eve banquets in Edinburgh...after a few whiskies who knows what Lord Melville might say about this suddenly active pope...

...well I know...obviously...

I'm not certain that the Papacy held that much sway in the eighteenth century. After the Reformation its ability to claim leadership of Christendom was shattered. Kings and Emperors were unlikely to be guided by Papal demands. The French position will be to give a Gallic shrug and to continue French foreign policy (yes I know a lot of people think there isn't a French foreign policy but there really is!). France will smile kindly at the Pope and wish him well.

In my view, the pope has a lot of soft power. The pope can squander that by overplaying his hand, but if he is thoughtful, he can influence the honour of catholic nations.

The biggest honour bump I have gotten in Game 8 as the Hispanic Emperor was winning an accolade from the Pope.

Most players are used to just giving orders as rulers and seeing them obeyed. That isn't the power of the papacy on others. If you play it that way, you will just fail. But if you praise and criticize with a real basis for your statements, players who care about their honour will heed your words, or at least play the game of pretending to.

I am with Deacon on this one. The Thirty Years War, and the passions that drove it are still a real memory that moulds our time. The move towards secularism is towards the middle of the century. Papal praise will boost a Catholic ruler, while a sanction will impact his standing.

Sent from Topic'it App

I guess we will see from actions in the coming month(s) if Pope is actually active or not. A bit like Spain when some of us were convinced a new player ahd fallen into the gap, sorry I mean taken up a worth while role in the game.

Then we will maybe see how if & when an active Papal position impacts on the game.

Can full understand view of Basileus & the Gallian Church attitude to Rome,not always being on the bes tof terms, plus historically in the not too distna tpast the Bourbon dynasty was a Protestant one, only changing sides to raise the odds of getting a bottom securely planted on the throne of France. Now a Protestant France could really make for an interesting game !

Will an Agema brokered peace in Spain actually work, or if a player is active ( proposes a peace will it have any chance of success, after the valiant efforts by Deacon in his guise of deal/ peace maker, I have some serious doubts about it all.

A Jacobite Pope could certainly prove a bit of a flipping problem, ratherer than playing the fiddle as Rome burns he will probably be too busy running for the hills to find a new hole to hide in

I'd agree with Deacon, the Pope does seem to have a lot of soft power...the problem could be that we might have a pope who is trying to be hard with it.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Have to admitt after reading the one page rule and time scales I assumed that the Pope is still NPC and Richard was giving things a little prod to get things moving.

At that point certain Protestant powers in G10 (you know who you are!) start to laugh themselves sick and start offering to sale fire insurance to Roman house owners and fire starter kits to visitors.

Hey wait... I resemble that remark. Actually those evil Protestant powers might well be pouring a class of brandy and sitting back to watch the bonfires.

Jason wrote:Surely we'd have to fill it with water, so Stuart can get involved and commit some acts of piracy...sorry privateering...at the same time

Indeed the best quote of the day I have read... I nearly choked on my coffee reading this. I give Stuart credit as the resourceful fellow would likely find a way to fill it with water himself and sortie out to deal with those that were unprepared to do with his aquatic adventures.

Stuart Bailey wrote:Protestant Torch bearers may find a Player Character and Catholic rulers being told off about their moral failure to be funny.  But will they find it so funny if said Pope is a Jacobite?  Cardinal Henry Stuart for a top job in the Papacy?    

This could well be fun for me... Being a Protestant pastor (an evil Calvinist to Boot) with a certain bent for apologetics I am willing and ready to go broadside to broadside on this one.

SOLI DEO GLORIA

revvaughan wrote:

Jason wrote:Surely we'd have to fill it with water, so Stuart can get involved and commit some acts of piracy...sorry privateering...at the same time

Indeed the best quote of the day I have read...  I nearly choked on my coffee reading this.  I give Stuart credit as the resourceful fellow would likely find a way to fill it with water himself and sortie out to deal with those that were unprepared to do with his aquatic adventures.  

I would just like to point out that the French Corsair's in the West Indies had a lot of ex-soldiers in their ranks and their operations were as often on land as they were at sea. With their long range and heavy musket fire being particularly feared.

So if anyone needs a mercenary force the corsairs are happy to take on land as well as sea operations, fireworks, barbies and all good parties.

With special reduced rates for members of the Bourbon family and his Holiness.

How much would use of some units to fight slave trafficking in the Horn of Africa, mostly Ottoman shipping, in case its needed?

May help boost your honour a thome if the slavers are taking your people, or help you diplomatically with those nations who are having people forced inot slavery.

Or you could go another way & free slaves/or keep them in bondage & use them to build up your own position & Economy

On eof the joys of the game is you won't know until you try.

Both once I get a policing army force I plan to declare slavery illegal in the Empire and any slavers and their workers caught will be crucified outside the capital and well spies can work on getting payback outside the borders I have spies going in most of the major NPC positions in the Horn of Africa. Not to go after the nations by slavers who are outside the Empire's borders. So hiring ships to get them at sea is not a bad idea if things escalate. Oh and slaves who enter the Empire will be freed and can work on being subjects of the crown. Those hunting them will be treated as Slave Traffickers. But I need to be fortified and well prepared to respond to threats.

Criminals will be subject barring a capital crime, to indenturing to pay off the people they wronged with a sum of money and get one to ten years in service with some rights and a mustering out benefit an outfit of clean good clothes, a small sum of money and a papers saying they are now under good terms returned to being a subject of the realm with the forgiveness of the crime ... the first time ... after that well they are habitual criminals and well might get a longer term of servitude. It will be hoped they will work and be productive in the Empire or leave if they wish to commit a crime again. But that isn't servitude under hard bondage for life but punishment for a crime after a judgment.

The slave traffickers and their agents won't be welcome in the Empire and I hope that will spread to other nations in Africa in time.