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Agema Publications

A forum for the disscussion of the Play by Mail games from Agema Publications


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    Post by Stuart Bailey Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:24 pm

    Basileus wrote:To be fair to the Macedonian pike they performed an amazing tactical feat at Magnesia. After the Seleucid cataphract right charged off with Antiochus their cavalry on the left beat the Romans and were only driven off by the Pergamum cavalry. So Greeks beating Greeks. This left the phalanx in the centre with the elephants. The phalanx formed up around the elephants and marched off the battlefield and the Romans couldn't break the formation. An amazing feat for the time. So the Romans attacked the elephants in the centre of the phalanx with missiles who panicked and attacked and burst out of the Seleucid phalanx protecting them. Once the formation was broken the Romans slaughtered them.
    I think the defeat at Magnesia is down to Antiochus being a prat. How can you forgive the man who had fought at Thermopylae the year before and allowed his elite forces to be slaughtered by allowing the Romans to use the very same path the Persians did against Leonidas without guarding it, and then running away to save his own skin! Just stupid.

    Fair point about Claudius' elephants at Colchester. Do you have a reference for Parthians using elephants? I wonder if the far east of the Parthian Empire might not have been Zoroastrian.

    Tregaron in Wales, close to where I live, had a circus elephant die there in 1848 and buried, but they have lost the location now. So little hope on finding Claudius' elephants. Supposedly the poor beast was thirsty so the locals led it to a water supply which they didn't know had lead poisoning which finished the creature off.

    If you have ever tried to re-fight or design a historic re-fight of Magnesia this is one really tough battle to get close to the historic result.  Using DBM rules as a basis tried making all the Legions superior - due to high percentage of veterans of Scipio's campaigns in Spain and Africa, downgrading the Asgyraspids to ordinary and the Phalanx to inferior and giving the Seleucids a inert C in C and the Romans a couple of brilliant generals and I still think that unless I give the Seleucids different set of dice with fewer pips the Romans are up against it.

    It hard enough to get players to trample their own centre with their own Elephants, hit their left flank cavalry with their own chariots and then get caught static by a smaller force.  Even more of a bugger to get them to ignore the open flank of the legions in favour of trying to storm a fortified camp and that is before you get those sods who decide they want to give Hannibal an army command rather than a naval command.

    Tend to view Antiochus as ancient version of Marshal Nay.

    Ref Parthian Elephants the only mention of Vologeses and elephants is in Cassius Dio, Historia Romanathe and the peace terms agreed when he forced the Army of L Caesennius Pautus to surrender in Armenia - which included the Romans having to build a bridge so  Vologeses could cross a river in triumph mounted on an Elephant.

    Not sure why Vologeses and elephant wanted to cross a river or what was up with his own Greek building contractors that he needed to use Italian ones.

    The other evidence of Elephants outside of India proper and in lands linked to the Parthians such as Medels and Coins showing rulers mounted on Elephants,  silver Elephant models etc tend to be from Bactria and other eastern parts rather than anywhere close to the Roman frontier and could just as easily be be Bractrian Greek, Kushan or one of the other Yueh-Chih clans (who look very Parthian on their wall paintings) art work .  

    Of course when Vologeses himself had a Greek mother and Parthian Kings put Hellanistic sybols on their coins to humour the Greek Urban areas, but at the same time claimed decent from central asian kings on his fathers side and showed favour to Iranian fire temples and  to a revival of Iranian religion and culture the best you can say it that this is a rather mixed period in cultural and religious terms.  While in eastern Iranian regions like Bactria and Gandhara the influence of Buddhism and other Indian & central asian religious influence was strong.

    Like the later Sassinids who brought in Zoroastrianism as a state religion and their major trade partners the Kushans I do not doubt that the Parthian Kings could have obtained Elephants and crews who were not offended by "unclean animals". They could also have used a lot more infantry if they so wanted which would have had advanatages in sieges.  But would have gone against the fast moving all cavalry doctrine used by the nomad origin Parthian's against both Phalanx and Legions (unless they were in mountains and hills or defending cities).



    Last edited by Stuart Bailey on Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Basileus Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:20 pm

    I have to agree, the battle of Magnesia, but most Antiochus Iii battles in the west are a total tactical disaster. Strategically his decisions were terrible as well. The man who threw away and destroyed an empire.
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    Post by Jason2 Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:24 pm

    Basileus wrote:Tregaron in Wales, close to where I live, had a circus elephant die there in 1848 and buried, but they have lost the location now. So little hope on finding Claudius' elephants. Supposedly the poor beast was thirsty so the locals led it to a water supply which they didn't know had lead poisoning which finished the creature off.

    You'd be surprised how often archaeologists end up as part of the pre-excavation work, find they might be excavating a circus burial site, the example I gave earlier was one such. Mind you, long ago in my brief career as a field archaeologist, we were working on a site in advance of it being built on for new houses and we couldn't initially understand why we found so many bones of medium sized mammals...until we did extra archival research and found references to a Victorian private pets graveyard on the site
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:53 pm

    Jason2 wrote:
    Basileus wrote:Tregaron in Wales, close to where I live, had a circus elephant die there in 1848 and buried, but they have lost the location now. So little hope on finding Claudius' elephants. Supposedly the poor beast was thirsty so the locals led it to a water supply which they didn't know had lead poisoning which finished the creature off.

    You'd be surprised how often archaeologists end up as part of the pre-excavation work, find they might be excavating a circus burial site, the example I gave earlier was one such.  Mind you, long ago in my brief career as a field archaeologist, we were working on a site in advance of it being built on for new houses and we couldn't initially understand why we found so many bones of medium sized mammals...until we did extra archival research and found references to a Victorian private pets graveyard on the site

    Did see a theory in a newspaper that some of the very early sightings of the Loch Ness Monster were actually due to Victorian circus elephants being allowed a wash/swim in the Loch.
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    Post by Jason2 Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:05 pm

    Stuart Bailey wrote:
    Jason2 wrote:
    Basileus wrote:Tregaron in Wales, close to where I live, had a circus elephant die there in 1848 and buried, but they have lost the location now. So little hope on finding Claudius' elephants. Supposedly the poor beast was thirsty so the locals led it to a water supply which they didn't know had lead poisoning which finished the creature off.

    You'd be surprised how often archaeologists end up as part of the pre-excavation work, find they might be excavating a circus burial site, the example I gave earlier was one such.  Mind you, long ago in my brief career as a field archaeologist, we were working on a site in advance of it being built on for new houses and we couldn't initially understand why we found so many bones of medium sized mammals...until we did extra archival research and found references to a Victorian private pets graveyard on the site

    Did see a theory in a newspaper that some of the very early sightings of the Loch Ness Monster were actually due to Victorian circus elephants being allowed a wash/swim in the Loch.

    I saw that too Smile and to be honest, it does seem one of the more sensible explanations Very Happy If you've ever been to the loch, you'll know it is a weird place and no matter how science-focused you are, when there it is easy to slip into the legends of the place...a bit like Glastonbury or Avebury...

    ...and from a "Rome Burns" point of view...well, there were some legends that the first church on Glastonbury Tor was built by Jesus...
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    Post by Basileus Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:11 pm

    My problem with Antiochus III is that he decided to call himself the Great in his own lifetime. That was after his campaign in the east for a number of years bringing satrapies back in line - Parthia, Bactria etc.

    But to call yourself the Great in your own lifetime you should be pretty good, and Antiochus never got close.
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:39 am

    Basileus wrote:My problem with Antiochus III is that he decided to call himself the Great in his own lifetime. That was after his campaign in the east for a number of years bringing satrapies back in line - Parthia, Bactria etc.

    But to call yourself the Great in your own lifetime you should be pretty good, and Antiochus never got close.

    Agree being called "The Great" in your lifetime is probably asking for trouble, Pompey had the same problem.

    Think Antiochus III like the first Seleucus I suffer from most of our information coming from hostile & western Roman, Rhodian and Ptolemaic sources. Which leaves us with hardly any information concerning Antiochus great victory at Panion which finally ended the wars between the Ptolemaic's and Seleucids for Coile-Syria, his recovery of Asia Minor or this great campaigns in the east.

    Its a bit like our only records for Napoleon and the French Army 1792-1815 being 90% based only on the war in Spain and Waterloo with a few mentions of victories in Germany, Italy & Austria.

    From the accounts we do have of the storming of the Porphyrion Pass and the Crossing of the Elburz range Antiochus III seems to have been a commander of some imagination and talent. But in big set battles he seems like many Hellanistic commanders to have been blinded by the legand of Alexander in personally leading the right flank cavalry to victory and sod the rest.

    At Raphia, Panion and Magnesia the Seleucid right did a very good impression of Alexanders Companions and totally routed its opponents.
    At Raphia a badly outnumbered Antiochus even copied Alaxander in seeking to personally kill the enemy King or at least seperate him from his Army leading to its collapse as their King vanished.

    Unfortunately for Antiochus III he seems to have lacked the fabled luck of Alexander such as when Ptolemy escaped the rout of his Guards, Elephants and right at Raphia to join his infantry and perhaps more importantly lacked a sub general fit to polish Parmenions boots.
    In fact in battle Antiochus seems to have suffered from having his left hammered by very able sub generals on the other side.

    At Raphia Echekrates ignored the rout of the Ptolemaic left and the possible death of his employer to turn the tide of the battle, at Thermmopylai it was Cato, even at Panion Scopas is only stopped by a wall of Seleucid Elephants and gets 10,000 troops away in good order across the mountains to Sidon while the rest of the Army is being trampled into the dust.

    Finally at Magnesia the preformance of Eumenes of Pergamene in defeating the later Seleukos IV and Antipater commanding the Seleucid right must make him the spiritual heir of Parmenion as a commander of a defensive flank and one of the best Cavalry Generals Rome every had. Still think if the Seleucid Generals on his flank has not messed around with Chariots and had just turned it into a huge Cavalry battle Eumenes with 2200 Roman Horse and 800 Pergamene Horse defending an open flank would just have been hanging on for grim death against 3000 Cataphracts & 4000 other Cavalry in the hope that the Legions could defeat the Phalanx in the centre. And if Eumenes had been pushed back the Legions could well have faced a double envelopement when Antiochus broke the Roman left.

    Basically as a cheering thought for Eastern Roman Commanders in Rome is Burning - Nothing is going to be as potentially horrible as Magnesia - and Rome won that battle!Very Happy

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    Post by Guest Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:42 pm

    Looks like we have several ancient history buffs in play, which will be good for atmosphere.

    I’m in. With the Legionaries. My heart has always been in the East...
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:56 pm

    Kerensky wrote:Looks like we have several ancient history buffs in play, which will be good for atmosphere.

    I’m in. With the Legionaries. My heart has always been in the East...

    If we have ancient history buffs in play in 70 AD does this mean the Emperor now has to worry about Republicans? Suspect

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    Post by Guest Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:14 am

    Interesting thought Stuart.

    I expect all loyal Roman’s to proclaim their loyalty to the Emperor & SPQR, SPQR being the Republican element of their (our?) constitution. But the Senatus PopulusQue Romanus is but a shadow of itself, as the Senate has already formed into a fairly subservient & self seeking body of individuals scrabbling for Imperial preferment. The Populus is now effectively the Imperial Equestrian class, which is (again) subsumed into the hunt for Imperial preferment, while the Plebs are the Roman mob (Plebs outside Rome do not count politically, other than as Legion fodder). The mob is a useful tool, for any aspiring Emperor, but far from the political force of the Mid-Republican voting classes.
    It would make a great rallying line for any aspiring Imperial aspirant, to restore Rome to its ancient values, restore the Republic, free rice pudding for all etc. It will be a solid political approach.

    But the cold hard reality is that after fighting to claim the crown, it would take an individual unknown to Roman history to successfully pass the crown back to a gang of sycophantic senators & the Roman mob. Anyone who did would likely be rapidly executed when claimant no2 arrived in the capitol, with his army (& likely the Republican’s army, when they realised the Republican had given the winning ticket back ‘to the people’).

    I would love to see someone try though, as I am a fan of the Mid-Republic. It has been arguably dead for c.180 years though, as it did not end with Caesar, but more realistically Marius (or Sulla).
    If someone could reincarnate the spirit of Tiberius or Gaius Grachhus though... Populares vs. the Optimates, round 2? It could add real flavour to the game, if we end up with a Republican faction(s) (& ultimately,
    If they win, who is going to be in a position to point out that a Republican Dictatorship is not that different from an Imperial Crown)?
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:14 pm

    Not sure about having more nasty trouble makers like Tiberius and Gaius Grachhus in Rome since we already have enough of them in Judea, North Britannia and Germany.

    Do you think the voters may be up for a return to the traditional Roman values of Cato? And a Sulla style restoration of the Senate?

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    Post by Guest Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:35 am

    A return to stoicism and austerity, ala Cato, could indeed be a pitch...
    You are spot on, Sulla did restore the Senate, or at least his version.

    As to the voters choice? Rome is now operating like a typical democracy. They will follow the bread (money) & the circuses (power) and go where it directs them.

    Always loved the line from Gladiator ‘Thank You for the crowds of loyal citizens, I hope they did not cost you too much.’
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:26 am

    Kerensky wrote:A return to stoicism and austerity, ala Cato, could indeed be a pitch...
    You are spot on, Sulla did restore the Senate, or at least his version.

    As to the voters choice? Rome is now operating like a typical democracy. They will follow the bread (money) & the circuses (power) and go where it directs them.

    Always loved the line from Gladiator ‘Thank You for the crowds of loyal citizens, I hope they did not cost you too much.’


    You Sir......are a cynic who as clearly spent too long the the East mixing with Greeks & Syrians!

    Think one way of looking at the events of AD 70 is that it was a power struggle between Generals backed by their own Armies as per the some of the Civil Wars of the later Republic.

    An alternative view is that the Generals of AD 70 were not the massive characters and lacked the huge reserves of cash, support & patronage of a Pompey, Sulla or a Julius Ceasar in the later Republic so what mattered was their "program" and their ability to win support.
    And that unlike the the events after the death of Alexander the frontier Legions were not purely the mercenary forces who followed the "cash" but viewed themselves as Roman Citizens who had just as much right to have a say in how the Roman State was run as a bunch of ex slaves and other imperial free-men in Rome.

    Think what AD 70 does show is that you could consider yourself Roman without being born in Rome and that an Emperor could be made outside of Rome if that was the will of wider body politic of the Empire. The question is will the body politic of the Empire in the game respond only to the lowest appeal of bread and circusess?

    Or after hundreds of years of Latin Education will the heirs of Scipio's Legions in Spain, Germanius Legions in Germany, Ceasers X Legion in Gaul etc prove that they at worthy of their great and honourable fore fathers and to be called Citizens of Rome? Rise from their knees and restore justice, morality and respect for the gods?

    Could the game split between the Bread and Circuis Cynics & Stoic's who want dust off the Lex Oppia and put additional import duties on Elephants & silk PJ's and charge VAT on flashy Chariots?




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    Post by Guest Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:01 am

    I would go for hardened realist. Although, I have grown cyclical with age & my time in the East.
    I agree with your central tenet that any attempt to claim the throne would require a program that will rejuvenate the ‘idea that is Rome’. Any self-respecting faction will need to lard itself with a plan for Rome & it’s Renaissance, under their wise & beneficent leadership.
    The biggest question we will face though, is what is Rome (& it’s body politic)? Personal view is it is no longer the city, but not quite the Empire. What do I mean by that? Imperial Equestrian Class & the Senate are the key, to money & influence. Plebs are the mob (which you must also control), in the City of Rome itself. Finally, the arbiter if Imperial Power, the army. Citizens (outside Rome) without money & the slaves are just spectators.
    You mention the key word, patronage, the anchor of Roman civilisation, since the early Republic. It will be critical, both with PC’s & NPC’s. Nobody will get the throne by playing Napoleon Solo.
    So, I foresee several factions, all with a program (Catonian, Gracchan, etc.), all handing out bread & holding circuses (or their versions of it).
    & of course, defending the Empire at the same time (lose you own provinces, and your credibility is done).
    It is going to be a lot of fun!
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:26 pm

    Kerensky wrote:

    I’m in. With the Legionaries. My heart has always been in the East...


    Does this mean that rather than dash back to Rome (Agh Rome....please feel free to add Lee Mack quotes from horrible histories). Kerensky is going to leave his heart in the east with the IX Legion.....impaled on a Pathian, Hun, Sarmation or Alani war lance?

    I dont know if many people have noticed that in Rome in Burning position list when it says Carpathians or North of the Carpathians it is not talking about the mountains we know as the Carpathians but about the border between the East and some of the most scary wargame armies of them all.

    Wonder if Kerenshy will end up having to ally with the men in silk PJ's to defend the Caspian gates and civilization against Horse Nomad types?

    Or if someone comes up with the Attila program a few years early........."Ok its agreed, we all ride south rape, loot, plunder and if Cestius Gallus Kerensky gets in the way we impale his heart on a lance."
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    Post by Guest Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:54 am

    Could I indeed be playing Cestus ‘don’t worry, putting this Judea revolt down will be a walk in the park’ Gallus?
    Known to history as the man not known to history, as his predictions on the Judean revolt were slightly off kilter?
    We shall see.
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    Post by J Flower Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:18 pm

    Need to look up my notes on goat breeding, sure the Romans must have had sacrificial goats,

    Maybe breed inflammable Goats, save on gathering firewood.....

    I think I really am on to something here.

    Just need to sort out a name for a Roman scientist "Arte et Marte" could be a good start.
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    Post by Jason2 Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:02 am

    I have vague memories from archaeology lectures of a failed Roman assault into Arabia in about 30 BC? It might even have got as far as modern day Yemen? Assuming I'm not imaging it, perhaps Kerensky can go off and seek revenge for whatever defeats the Romans suffered?

    And while Mr Flower is working on inflammable goats, I'll be developing whisky...
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    Post by Stuart Bailey Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:45 am

    Well outside Roman period the new game will be set in. But since I am now working from home and unable to go out much - I did take opportunity to re-vamped a plan for a re-fight of Heraclea using DBA rules with a few twists - and now Post it so anyone who is interested in the early Roman Republic or just likes war games which are not simple line up and charge can have a look and try it out if they want.

    Like DBA because Roman Blades do not get auto kills on Pikes and are forced to try and work round their flanks while Knight Generals have to follow up and this can get them in trouble.

    Briefings can be used for any rule system but I like a fairly simple rule set for complex battles. Would also add that to finish in a afternoon its probably best to use half the number of elements and use x2 Roman Generals and x3 Greek with the fort guard and the Roman Camp guard as command's without a general.

    For terrain you need a river with areas of woods on both banks with a gap in trees for a ford and a road (say 7 element wide). Battle starts with Romans crossing ford to engage Guards while Roman Cavalry start to ride out of woods on both flanks after swimming river under cover of trees.

    Historically, ford Guards did a runner but were saved from total butchery by arrival of Greek Cavalry who then got stuck in fight with Roman Horse and started to run into real problems as Roman foot started to join in. Greek C in C gets horse killed and is almost killed himself.

    Phalanx arrive to save Greek Cavalry and battle turns into slug-fest as Greeks try to push Romans back into river and Romans fight for space to get all their men into action. Stand in for Pyrrhus gets killed and almost causes a panic

    Finally elephants show up and Roman Cavalry bolt in terror throwing Roman ranks into disorder. Roman Army routs but does rally at its camp on other side of river with Greeks too exhusted to stage much of a pursuit. They also suffer lose on a Elephant to a Roman who attacks it with a sword! Clearly a worthy ancestor of my PC in Roman Game.

    Think this is a really interesting battle for Greek Commander - staying alive is important. If you can delay Romans and get your troops imto correct place to outflank the heads of their columns you probably win. But if they get to spread out and use use their numbers it could get nasty.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Roman Briefing

    – You are Publius Valerius Laevinus and are under orders to take revenge for a dire insult to Rome and enforce the authority of the Senate & People of Roman over Southern Italy (plus win Glory for yourself and your family name).

    Unfortunately Greek Merchant types see the growth of Rome as a threat to their trade and to the outrage of the Senate they have insulted a Roman Envoy and attacked a Roman Fleet! Latest reports indicate that they have followed up their insults by spending a lot of gold to bring in mercenary forces from Greece and try and convince the Lucanians, Samnites and other foes of Rome in the south to join the Etruscan foe in the north.

    Your fellow Consul is currently in the North fighting the Etruscan’s & the Senate considers it vital that Rome is seen as “Strong” in the South which means these Greek Merchant types need to be punished ASAP. Partly this is the standard Roman reply to insults but your fellow senators are also concerned to stop the Samnites and others thinking its safe to join the Etruscan’s or any Greek War Lord who takes up the cash currently on offer.

    Your Army (AKA as your Voters) has invaded Lucania gathering a reasonable amount of plunder & is currently marching along the Road to prosperous Greek trading colonies on the coast and is looking forward to wine, women, loot, plunder & VICTORY!

    You are getting close to were the road crosses the river Siris at a wide ford (the ford counts as bad going with a defensible river bank apart from were the road crosses the ford…..which is just bad going). The river and its fords are almost certainly guarded but if you can cross it and get to the Coast you will have cut the territory of your southern foes and potential foes in half.

    SPECIAL RULES (ASSAULTS ON FORDS) …...Any unit and column behind it which wins at the ford must make an an immediate follow up move to get out of the water. Troops which normally follow up do not have to follow into the water but may if they so wish.

    Your Army: (Scale of 600 men per foot element, 300 per Cavalry = 38,400 foot & 4800 Horse)

    x2 Generals (Consul Laevinus & Pro-Consul who may join any Cav, Blade or Spear unit)…….each commanding x2 Legions and equal number of allied foot.

    x1 General (Master of Horse…….commanding all Cavalry apart from General Elements or Senior Centurion Commanding Camp who is attached to a Spear Unit)

    x4 Roman Legions

    Each X1 Cav , 1 Spear, x5 Blade, x2 Ps (Total x4 Cav, x4 Spear, x20 Blade, x8 Ps)

    Italian Allies

    X12 Cav, X, 24 Aux (may be solid, fast or a mix), 8Ps

    Army Organization : A & B two commands each with two legions and equal number of allies. Cavalry may form own command C under the Master of Horse or remain as part of Legion Command D) Camp Guard – Must be formed of number of Triarii (Spear) elements and at least equal number of allied foot elements. Will only move out of camp if at least six elements & general.
    Note you have plunder to guard and are not in friendly territory. Also forces of Coastal Greek City States are believed to be seeking to link up with tribal allies. The Greeks are probably to your front but bad past experience of Samnites and others mean wise Roman Generals watch their flanks and rear at all times.

    Scouting Report : Your Master of Horse reports that the ford is defended by a Screen of Light troops. But by great good fortune the Cavalry was able to take advantage of cover provided by wooded area’s along the river banks and swim across the river both upstream and downstream of the Ford Guards without being spotted. Cavalry is now hidden in woods and is waiting to attack the flanks of the ford guards as soon as you cross the ford and engage them from the front. Further Greek forces seem to be camped some distance down road but Scouts believe Ford Guard can be crushed & Roman forces pushed across river before these join in the battle if you move quickly.

    Spy Report : A Roman Spy reports that the Greeks have imported something called “Indian War Elephants”, these are reported as a great terror weapon especially against Cavalry. Sounds like Gallic War Chariots to you, no doubt effective against raw troops and cowardly Greek troops but your Cavalry are Roman Nobles scared of nothing…….so nothing to worry about.

    Set up

    Greek Ford Guard deployed.

    Turn 1 – Roman’s move first, Infantry March from their table edge (three base width from river) towards Ford.

    When Roman Infantry Engaged Roman Cavalry can be deployed out of woods (1 BW move out of woods…...can only move in column)

    Victory Conditions

    1 VP for each intact Roman Command across river at end of battle.

    1 VP intact Roman Camp

    1 VP for each Greek Command routed

    3 VP for killing Greek C I C















    Greek Briefing

    You are Pyrrhos King of Epeiros, relative of Alexander the Great and claimant to the Throne of Macedonia. Currently you are trying to save the Greeks in Southern Italy from a Barbarian Confederation known as the Latin League (who’s leading Tribe is known as Romans) in the same way as your great relative liberated the Ionian Greeks in the East.

    Thanks to generous donations of money and troops from Greek City States in Italy and from fellow Greek Monarch’s (many of whom want you out of Greece as much as they want to save the Italian Greeks) you have arrived in Italy with an Army very like the one Alexander lead east plus a herd of War Elephants.

    A reputation as a Hero who saved Greek Italy from the Barbarians plus the money and more importantly access to the Military Man-power of Italy will almost certainly put you on the Throne of Macedonia and put you into the first division of great powers.

    While confident that nothing can stand up to your highly trained professionals they are not easy to replace and the dis-united tribes of Italy have a reputation as tough fighters more like Thracians than the decadent Persians. Which means that it is important to gather allies before taking on the full strength of the Latin League.

    Rather stupidly the Barbarians have split their forces in two and half have gone North to fight the Etruscans while the other half have invaded Lucania in an effort to deter prospective southern allies from joining you.

    Currently you are camped behind the River Siris which allows you to cover allied Greek coastal settlements from attack, cover several important roads and river crossing points and await various large allied forces which have promised to join you against the hated Latin’s. Naturally an early victory will do a lot to get allies to rally to your cause while a defeat, even a small one will have the opposite effect on tribes who may hate them but have a very high opinion of the military ability of these Roman Barbarians (fools!).

    You have just been informed that your Guards on the main ford over the River Siris are about to come under heavy attack and the Barbarians seem to be trying to force a crossing by marching right down the main road and across the main ford. If you move quickly enough you should be able save your Light Troops and smash the Barbarian’s vanguard back into the river.

    Greek Army (Elephant Elements made up of 5 Elephants plus guard of 50 men per animal. Usual scale of 600 men to Infantry and 300 per Cavalry element results would result in 24,600 foot and 4800 Cavalry plus the 20 Elephants and 1000 guards. In actual fact many Greek elements below this numeric strength ie the 4 Ps (Archers) and 1 Ps (Sling) were actually 2000 Archers and 500 Slingers. Cavalry elements were also smaller than 300 mounts and riders – take view that superior mounts and training for full time professionals makes up for missing numbers)

    x4 Generals – Commanding a) Ford Guard……..Command must be made up of Skirmish troops b) Cavalry...commander is Commander in Chief (but has swapped armour with Pike Commander...see special rules) c) Phalanx plus some support troops d) Elephants plus Psoli.

    - 4 Knights (one of whom is C I C element)
    - 4 Cav
    - 4 Light Horse
    - 16 Pike
    - 8 Aux (Solid or Fast) or Spear or Ps (Javalin)
    - 4 Ps (Archers from Crete)
    - 1 Ps (Specialist Slingers)
    - 4 Elephants

    Italian-Greek troops
    - 2 HC
    - 2 LC (Tarantines)
    - 12 Spear or Aux (solid) or Ps

    Deployment:

    1) Deploy Ford Guards

    2) On sighting of Romans move Cavalry Command onto Table

    3) Turn after all Cavalry Command moved onto table move Infantry Command onto table

    4) Turn after all the Phalanx move onto table move elephants onto table with any Lt Infantry Escorts.

    - Note Road movement

    Special rules

    - Troops fighting to cross ford will always follow up along with any troops in column behind them. Troops defending ford even those who normally follow up may hold their position but have option of following up.

    – Cavalry flee from Elephants if defeated and all troops suffer minus 1 if defeated by Elephants.

    - To avoid favourite tactic of Glory hunting barbarian Roman nobles is to target the enemy Commander in Chief, one of whom killed his horse in this battle. Pyrrhos exchanged armour with Megakles (commander of Phalanx) who was killed while wearing the Kings Armour leading to major morale problems in Greek Army until rallied by Pyrrhos. To represent the influence of Pyrrhos at any point in the battle Pyrrhos can take command of Phalanx as well as the Cavalry. If Pyrrhos takes command of both Phalanx and Cavalry the united command will only get one dice and demoralization/rout will be based on combined strength. Any troops already demoralized or routing will rally at end of turn Pyrrhos takes command and morale will then be based on combined unit strength.

    Deployment:

    1) Deploy Ford Guards and mark entry points for other commands

    2) On sighting of Romans dice to move Cavalry Command onto Table (show up on a 5 or 6 plus 1 for C & C plus 1 for each turn diced for)

    3) Turn after Cavalry all arrive dice to move Infantry onto table (arrive on 5 or 6 plus 1 for each prior dice roll)

    4) Turn after Infantry all move onto table dice to move elephants onto table with any Lt Infantry Escorts (arrive on 5 or 6 plus 1 for each prior dice roll)

    VP

    - 1 VP for each Roman Command routed

    - 2 VP if no Roman Commands on Greek side of river

    - 2 VP if Roman Camp captured/destroyed

    - 1 VP if element including Pyrrhos destroys two for more hostile elements (not Ps or disheartened)

    Note if Greeks win but advantage is 2 VP or below its a Pyrrhic Victory

    Design notes

    - Army size, we know that the Roman Army at this battle contained four legions plus allies. The size of the Legions plus the numbers of allies being equal numbers of foot and x3 Cavalry are based on Polybios account of the Roman Army which is fifty years after this battle. But as the Roman’s were generally conservative and worked on if it not broken do not fix it principal. It does not seem unreasonable to use Polybios as basis for a four legion army.

    - Using Polybios gives Romans 4800 Horse while we know Pyrrhos only had 3000 from Epirus and Nicholas Sckunda believes no Tarentine allied Cavalry fought in this battle due to lack of Training. Since the Cavalry battle was famously even I have allowed Tarentine Cavalry and allowed both sides same number of elements. Tarentines were famous for their light cavalry, fought in later battles and are known to have fielded up to 3000 Horse at other times so I do not think Sckunda view that they were not ready for this battle but were ready for Asculum a year later. However, a good case can be made to cut down the cavalry numbers I have allowed. Even in Polybios day not all Roman armies had 3 allies to each Roman Horse and it could be 1 to 2 or even 1 to 1. And 50 years before many of the peoples who provided the most horse like the Bruttians were sitting this one out

    - The Roman Camp was captured the day after the battle after the Romans rallied and withdrew in reasonable order. The size of the Camp Guard and its roll in getting the routed Roman Army to rally is not known but it would be a common role for the Triarii to act as camp guards and as a final reserve for the rest of the Army to rally on.

    - Pyrrhus sailed for Italy with 3,000 horse, 20,000 foot, 2,000 archers and 500 slingers having sent 3000 troops the year before. What we do not know is number in guarding camp, still guarding Tarentum or lost in storm which scattered his fleet, or how many allies he had with him at Heraclea. Since all 20 Elephants made it I have assumed that storm losses were not bad but since Pyrrhus a highly aggressive commander was seeking to delay battle and wait for allies he was outnumbered by a fair amount.

    – While records are not clear I have assumed that the Greek allied troops in this battle are Coastal Greek-City state troops rather Italian Tribal types and so are either old style Hoplites, Thureophoroi Light Troops or Cavalry. With Italian-Greek Allies troops not using Pikes at this early stage in the war.

    - Sckunda thinks the Tarentines both mercenaries and the Citizen levy used the large Thureos shield and fought in a more loose order like Roman’s and other Italians. My feeling is that Tarentine employed mercenaries probably did fight like this (Aux) in DBA but the Citizen levy who wanted to be remain “Greek” still deployed as all style close order Hoplites (Spears in DBA) and it was these troops later Pyrrhus later re-equiped with Pikes.

    - This is the first time Italian Troops have fought War Elephants. All Troops and especially horses seem to do badly against hostile Elephants on first meeting. The Greek Elephants are only 20 Strong (ie normally 1 element) but inspired terror across the battlefield with large numbers of Roman Cavalry Horses on both flanks seeming to have bolted in terror. Having each Elephant element represent 5 elephants plus a standard Guard of 50 light Infantry per Elephant per element plus inc one of who may be classed as a General allows the elephants to split up and inspire the correct amount of fear and panic across the whole battlefield.

    - In accounts of later battles it is clear that the Elephants fought in very close co-operation with some very deadly light Infantry who destroyed the Roman Anti Elephant wagons at Asculum and then badly damaged elements of two Roman Legions which broke the Greek Line but then found themselves pinned down on a hill by the threat of an elephant charge.

    - It should be noted that the Latin and Roman Cavalry in this period were savage hand to hand fighters (many even seem to have dismounted in combat) but used spears and swords rather than missiles and were a lot less mobile than the Greek Cavalry Squadrons which made it a lot less effective than many other Cavalry types against Elephants. Did wonder if they should be considered as Knights but they did not sweep their foes by the fury of their charge. Good steady Cavalry hackers with a weakness against Elephants due to never having seen the nasty, smelly things seems a fair reflection. The fact that the Greeks have four dice to the Romans three plus light cavalry while some Roman Cavalry may be out of command should give the Greek Horse a mobility advantage. While Roman Cavalry will have small advantage over Greeks in head on combat due to number of Greek elements being lights with a lower combat factor compared to Roman & Italian Nobles.

    - It is not clear why the Elephants were the last Greek force to arrive. Need to fit Towers may have delayed them or they may just have been the reserve. No mention is made of Light Infantry being with them at this battle but it was fairly standard Hellenistic practice and they were generally deployed with them them by Pyrrhos in his other battles so I have assumed the same for this one. The shooting of hundreds of skilled archers and slingers which the Roman horse could not get at due to the Elephants would also contribute towards the rapid historic exit of Roman Horse from the Elephants.

    - Allowing the Greeks four generals to the Romans three is partly based on the Greek deployment. It also represent the fact that most of the Greek Army are Professionals lead by a Great General. To even things up the Romans have an advantage in numbers & the death of Pyrrhos will be a disaster for the Greek’s. A dead Publius Valerius Laevinus just means a problem on the day and the need to have a new election.

    - Have rated Roman Troops as Blades and all of their allies as Auxilla. While some allies do seem to have fought in looser order and been more lightly equiped than Roman Troops this is not true for all of them. However repeatedly campaigns in Italy showed that Roman Troop were savage close quarter fighters and had an advantage over all of their Italian rivals/allies unless they were lured into rough terrain. Classification of troops aims to is too give Roman foot an advantage over similar Italian foot both friend and foe.

    - Pyrrhos started the battle in very fancy armour which made him easy to spot. Unfortunately, this made him such a target for glory hunting Roman Nobles that his ability to command was impacted. In order to avoid this problem he swapped armour mid way through the battle with his close friend Megakles. Megakles death while directing troops in Pyrrhos Armour seems to have dishearted the Phalanx and disaster was only avoided when Pyrrhos removed Megakles helmet and rode up and down to show himself to the Phalanx. In order to bring out the vital importance of Pyrrhos it is possible for him to command two commands as one and perhaps “save” the Greek Phalanx in so doing. But if Pyrrhos is killed the Romans win the war even if they do not win total victory in this battle. (3VP to Romans).

    - Following the example of Alexander his successor generals generally lead from the front and numerous successor battles were decided by the death of a general. Historically Pyrrhos had a reputation as a savage hand to hand fighter and was wounded several times including by a Roman Javelin before his eventual death in battle. If he leads from the front and lives up to his heroic reputation this will greatly help the morale of his own men and inspire the hill tribes of Italy to join him against hated Romans.



    Optional Rules

    - Pyrrhos waiting for allies when the Romans attacked. In the historic battle these allies played no part and only joined him after the battle. It is probable that at least some of these allies were waiting for the outcome of the battle before risking the anger of Rome. The next major battle of war on Latin territory was influenced by allies showing up when around 3000 Roman Allies showed up late and just as Pyrrhos was winning a crushing Victory and attacked his camp which along with a Javelin in the arm totally distracted his pursuit.

    - To bring in possible threat of Pyrrhos allies making it to battle role a D20 every turn. On roll of 20 role a D8 on a 1-4 Eight Elements of Samites (Fast Aux) show up on Roman Side of River. On a 5-8 its 8 Elements of Hoplites on Greek Side of River.
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    Post by J Flower Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:40 am

    Notice that the Roman character I have been given to play has shown up on my active positions list on my Game Ten Invoice, Launch was planned for May so only a couple of weeks to go.
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    Post by Marshal Bombast Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:12 am

    J Flower wrote:Notice that the Roman character I have been given to play has shown up on my active positions list on my Game Ten Invoice, Launch was planned for May so only a couple of weeks to go.

    Same here, I usually skip the top bit to see how much I've spent recently...
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    Post by Jason2 Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:21 pm

    It's on my invoice sheet too. Also, looking at the main Agema website is saying starts in May.

    Had a look at the positions still available and compared it to those in the original list Richard sent out. It lists five Roman positions still available (the original list had 25) and 21 non-Roman (original list 72). Assuming that means all have been taken (and not dropped by Richard for some reason), would suggest a very large player base
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    Post by J Flower Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:11 pm

    Hopefully we get the rule book before the first turn
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    Post by Jason2 Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:54 pm

    J Flower wrote:Hopefully  we get the rule book before the first turn

    Surely for positions we're playing, the rule book is "Kill the men in bedsheets" Wink
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    Post by Deacon Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:10 am

    Well, some have slightly different rules, "Capture the barbarians, haul them back to Rome and host a murder party* while feeling smugly superior."




    *Civilized people, of course, call this a triumph with all the wonderful civilized games that involve barbarians getting killed in splendid and bloody ways.

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