Game 10

Last copy of the Mercurius politicus has shown up and I have to say:

Good grief my tidy up turn after being sacked is not even over and a very nicely dressed Rene Trouin is hardly out of the inn door and away to sea before the verbal attacks go in basically saying its all his fault that France and the Emperor are at war!! Anyone would think Rene middle name is Blackbeard or Martel. What has happened to large positions in Glori being nice to the little ones?

Hate to think what would have been said if the Corsairs had sailed under a false Dutch flag to surprise and slaughter their foes. An action used by Hapsburg commanded Italian troops when they wiped out a regiment of of resting Spanish Dragoons. Probably a fairly safe bet that King William and his ministers would go ballistic about this insult to their flag and action which could place Dutch ships at serious risk of getting blown out of the water in future if the Corsairs had done it.

Also the Corsairs have made sure not to harm neatral ships. Wonder what would have been said if they destroyed Scots trade convoys and also burnt anchored ships from Russian, L-C and Hanover in effort to block a port. Very strange that the Scots have had nothing to say about burning Scots traders will we now get a equally strange silence from the Czar about his burning ships?

Finally why when the Corsairs aim at the meeting rooms of a treacherous diet is it Barbaric but its ok to burn down private barns and businesses in France? Have the Austrians and Swedes new read the standard laws of war in Western Europe where we have rules around gathering "contributions" and Letters of Marque.

Now Corsairs have dropped may have to order the paper on its own just to find out how the speach writters of the Maritime powers cope? How will they fill the speaches of their political masters?

Aside from various boots to the rear of Corsair pants as they left the building also read with interest that Spain intends to replace Slavery in the America's with free labour and wine making. In G7 spent 5 years trying to grow vines in the Napa Valley and just about got a semi drinkable Red using grapes from Chile, the white wine has been a total failure. Now they are going make wine 11,000 feet up in the Andes and also try to get free labour to cut sugar cane and work the high mines in Spanish America. Have to pay people really well to do jobs with such a high mortality rate.

This seems to be part of a deal which along with a probably huge bribe got the Roman Pope Clement to ignore 1000 years of Church Law on the santity of marriage and the rights of legitimate heirs. Rip up his own rulings on the subject and stab his allies the Emperor and Charles King of Naples in the back when he accepted a unacknowledged illegitimate son of Carlos II as both the legitimate King of Spain and also bestow the Papal fiefs of Naples, Sicily and Sardinia on him.

In theory getting the Roman Pope to sit up, beg, do tricks and do a 180 degree turn around is a stunning success for the government in Madrid. But with the Church in France, Flanders and Savoy already thinking Pope Clement is a whore who's rulings are based on the highest bidder. How much authority has he got left now he has just proved everything Pope Leo XII has been saying about him to the Emperor, Charles von Hapsburg and most of Italy?

Could peace yet be made on basis that the Emperor gets most of what he wants ref restoration of Frenche Comte to Empire while Louis XIV gets his favoured Pope restored to the Holy See in Rome by Austrian sabres?

This type of thing would seem to be indicated by the Swedes saying they will accept a white peace with France provided the French restore Franche Comte to the Emperor. Some might say that the Protestant Swedes do not care about who is Pope and with a major Polish crisis blowing up in the Baltic, the Czar growing stronger by the day and the French Navy hunting down Sweden merchant fleet a ship at a time they just want to get their main Army out of France and go home.

But such moves would explain why anti-Pope Clements Papal Commander is now looking a very stained and worried man. After all its not every day you are top of the Bourbon hate list and betray the Hapsburgs to sign a deal with a Spanish Government infamous for only doing deals which are 80 to 20% in its favour and then turning to its lawyers to rubbish the other 20%. Wonder how many Spanish slaves will actually notice the difference?

If anyone likes a real diplomatic challenge I believe the Papal States are now going free. As added bonus along with fuming and betrayed Bourbons and Hapsburgs and rivals in the Church you have a crisis in Poland and are hosting the exiled Stuart Court. Which tends to upset Dutch, Scots and English as well. I say bring back the real Papa Clement:D

But such moves

Stuart Bailey wrote:If anyone likes a real diplomatic challenge I believe the Papal States are now going free.  As added bonus along with fuming and betrayed Bourbons and Hapsburgs and rivals in the Church you have a crisis in Poland and are hosting the exiled Stuart Court.  Which tends to upset Dutch, Scots and English as well.  I say bring back the real Papa Clement.

Always nice to be appreciated by players I respect.

I actually dropped G10 many months ago, but was asked to make it appear as though I was still playing.

It may or may not be the case that the Papal States is now inactive - I don't know.  If the report is as Stuart has written it, then it would certainly be very odd for an inactive Papacy to break Canon Law, turn on its only allies and do a deal with an excommunicated and fundamentally untrustworthy usurper who ever since he joined has done everything he can to destroy the authority of the church, even to the point of supporting an alternative 'pope' (even though there cannot in real history be such a thing).     I don't see how any deal with Pope Clement can be made under those circumstances without Spain first denouncing 'dope' Leo, breaking whatever treaty she had with France and confusing both her own subjects and turning on her ministers who were also excommunicated as a result of Spain's stupidity.  I guess it is for those whose warped imagination caused this mess to clear it up, with or without the help of their chums, especially if one of them has just happened to have taken on the Papacy.

One thing that I have learned in a few decades of playing LGDR is that inconsistency - making decisions that affect others, only to reverse those decisions shortly afterwards - inevitably leads to serious trouble, players dropping out in disgust and those who remain throwing up their hands in despair.  In G7 we had the farce of Churchill backing King James, then murdering him, abolishing taxes to try and keep himself in power, siding with France, then Spain, then trying to make peace, before dropping and being replaced by the Duke of Norfolk who restored the Stuarts again - all that happened in 6 months which left England in a state of civil war, torn by factions and bankrupt.  In my opinion none of it was necessary, nor welcomed by any player at the time, and it took me at least 5 years to sort out the mess.  I suspect, therefore, that whatever any new player has decided this turn, will be challenged by some and/or ignored by others, and another attempt to reset G10 will prove to have only limited success.

It is not my concern any more, since the game is played for the benefit of the players still in it.

Papa Clement wrote:

Stuart Bailey wrote:If anyone likes a real diplomatic challenge I believe the Papal States are now going free.  As added bonus along with fuming and betrayed Bourbons and Hapsburgs and rivals in the Church you have a crisis in Poland and are hosting the exiled Stuart Court.  Which tends to upset Dutch, Scots and English as well.  I say bring back the real Papa Clement.

Always nice to be appreciated by players I respect.

I actually dropped G10 many months ago, but was asked to make it appear as though I was still playing.

It may or may not be the case that the Papal States is now inactive - I don't know.  If the report is as Stuart has written it, then it would certainly be very odd for an inactive Papacy to break Canon Law, turn on its only allies and do a deal with an excommunicated and fundamentally untrustworthy usurper who ever since he joined has done everything he can to destroy the authority of the church, even to the point of supporting an alternative 'pope' (even though there cannot in real history be such a thing).     I don't see how any deal with Pope Clement can be made under those circumstances without Spain first denouncing 'dope' Leo, breaking whatever treaty she had with France and confusing both her own subjects and turning on her ministers who were also excommunicated as a result of Spain's stupidity.  I guess it is for those whose warped imagination caused this mess to clear it up, with or without the help of their chums, especially if one of them has just happened to have taken on the Papacy.

One thing that I have learned in a few decades of playing LGDR is that inconsistency - making decisions that affect others, only to reverse those decisions shortly afterwards - inevitably leads to serious trouble, players dropping out in disgust and those who remain throwing up their hands in despair.  In G7 we had the farce of Churchill backing King James, then murdering him, abolishing taxes to try and keep himself in power, siding with France, then Spain, then trying to make peace, before dropping and being replaced by the Duke of Norfolk who restored the Stuarts again - all that happened in 6 months which left England in a state of civil war, torn by factions and bankrupt.  In my opinion none of it was necessary, nor welcomed by any player at the time, and it took me at least 5 years to sort out the mess.  I suspect, therefore, that whatever any new player has decided this turn, will be challenged by some and/or ignored by others, and another attempt to reset G10 will prove to have only limited success.

It is not my concern any more, since the game is played for the benefit of the players still in it.

Just to correct and question this ridiculous post.

Papa claims to have respect for Stuart. Yet it was Stuart who came up with pope Leo who you are continually rude and dismissive about.

The Spanish player does not know who or if the papal position has been taken.so your rude remark about the Spanish player having his chum taking the papal position is totally false.

You dropped from g10 because you made a pigs ear of the papal position and you lost the support of most of the Catholic flock.

Of course g10 is played for the benefit of the players in it. Who do you think should benefit from the game.? Players who messed up their position and dropped.? Lol.

Enjoy the games you are in.

Roy - I happen to have respect for Stuart as a player despite currently being at war with one of his factions in G7.  I have told you often enough (so it should come as no surprise to you) that I have no such respect for you, the way you have chosen to approach the game, what you have done within it and will no doubt continue to do.

You clearly have a warped sense of my motivations and abilities; those who have known me longer and across a range of other games will make their own mind up about me, as I have done about you.  We will not agree with each other so please don't waste time trying.

Papa Clement wrote:Roy - I happen to have respect for Stuart as a player despite currently being at war with one of his factions in G7.  I have told you often enough (so it should come as no surprise to you) that I have no such respect for you, the way you have chosen to approach the game, what you have done within it and will no doubt continue to do.

You clearly have a warped sense of my motivations and abilities; those who have known me longer and across a range of other games will make their own mind up about me, as I have done about you.  We will not agree with each other so please don't waste time trying.

You are correct. We will not agree on anything. I doubt that many do agree with you. I can promise you that I won’t waste a second trying to agree with you.

Game 10 arrived at the end of the week and the following is for those who are interested.

1. The western war seems to have calmed down with Sweden accepting the French white peace, subject to independent Austrian approval and another condition. Reims was vacated before the siege started in earnest, with Imperial alliance forces moving on to Verdun.

2. Meanwhile Austrian activity has increased in the disputed Viceroyalty of Naples, including dispatching Spanish dragoons from Salerno in a sneak attack via transports using a neutral flag.

3. The Corsairs relocated their bomb ketches to fire again and actually hit something this time and caused the death of several leading member of Neapolitan society and government.

4. While a letter in the back of the paper indicates that Rodrigo has been welcomed back to the Catholic fold by Rome, The Paris based Pope Leo XII has confirmed that Rodrigo is still excommunicated.

5. The Treaty of Bristol has now been voted into the legislation of the Maritime powers with votes in Edinburgh & The Hague.

6. Austrian Hussars continued rampaging across France leading to merchant shipping being commandeered and sunk to block La Rochelle. The Tsar had noticed Stuart, and while he’s having trouble with the maths in the report, as a player I’m wondering how many ships do you need to block a port, 50-60 seems a bit excessive.

7. Regensburg heard an Imperial Diet speech outlaying the position regarding peace with France and Imperial Law, with certain issues requiring the Reichstag to vote in favour of a peace in certain conditions regarding who controls certain lands.

What I haven’t discerned is whether the end of the speech was friendly to the UDP or just a reference to Spain trying to sell these lands elsewhere. The reader can decide for themselves.

8. Following last months election of Augustus as King and Stanislaw Leszczynski’s failed veto, Leszczynski has now stated he doesn’t want to be King, but more the power behind the throne and will continue in his role as regent. It seems that Poland weren’t too keen on Russian forces being on their land either.

9. Portugal appears to have agreed a mutual defence treaty. While not confirmed in the paper last month’s paper made reference to England approaching Portugal in private, so could it be these 2 powers?

10. The Asante left England to return home, while the Denkyirahene also went home escorted by an Asanthene guard of honour to the borders.

11. Moghul India agreed to sell (England?) half of the recruits that they wanted to buy and that the loan from the Dutch had been repaid.

12. Manila saw confirmation of the Japanese civil province framework being used there.

Ahem...

10. The Asante left England to return home, while the Denkyirahene also went home escorted by an Asanthene guard of honour to the borders.

Actually, the Asante Delegation remain ensconced in their London mansion, it was just the (somewhat superfluous) mounted escort that sailed home. Just saying>

The Revenant wrote:Ahem...

10. The Asante left England to return home, while the Denkyirahene also went home escorted by an Asanthene guard of honour to the borders.

Actually, the Asante Delegation remain ensconced in their London mansion, it was just the (somewhat superfluous) mounted escort that sailed home.  Just saying>  

Sorry my bad

Marshal Bombast wrote:

The Revenant wrote:Ahem...

10. The Asante left England to return home, while the Denkyirahene also went home escorted by an Asanthene guard of honour to the borders.

Actually, the Asante Delegation remain ensconced in their London mansion, it was just the (somewhat superfluous) mounted escort that sailed home.  Just saying>  

Sorry my bad

Just didn't want to worry my hosts. Thinking I'd gone off in a huff!

The Revenant wrote:

Marshal Bombast wrote:

The Revenant wrote:Ahem...

10. The Asante left England to return home, while the Denkyirahene also went home escorted by an Asanthene guard of honour to the borders.

Actually, the Asante Delegation remain ensconced in their London mansion, it was just the (somewhat superfluous) mounted escort that sailed home.  Just saying>  

Sorry my bad

Just didn't want to worry my hosts.  Thinking I'd gone off in a huff!

I thought someone had stayed as an embassy was opened

Oi Marshall....whats happened to the updates for Yoshimune vs Misako and the ongoing Oishi storyline ? We're feeling a little left out in the home of the Rising Sun

Hi Count, the newspaper records the updates in the main articles, not in the letters pages, so we take these reports as fact, maybe with some salt given somethings we read. We didn't want Misako's master to think we were watching him the whole time as he might send Misako to kill us. Not sure how I'd explain to my wife why a beautiful killer was coming to assassinate me, hence reporting on more mundane aspects like the Manila administrative provinces.

I'll be sure to include in future updates, and if I get time to edit/add the above

Im not entirely sure why, stories developing some of the myths and legends of Japan are now appearing in the newspaper the way they are. This only started the last couple of months. They are part of orders rather than "newspaper articles".

count-de-monet wrote:Im not entirely sure why, stories developing some of the myths and legends of Japan are now appearing in the newspaper the way they are.  This only started the last couple of months.  They are part of orders rather than "newspaper articles".

Same thing happened too Rene Trouin, Sieur du Gue...............does that mean he is about to join Misako and her master in myth and legend ?????

Not sure if the legand of the "Flying Frenchman" has quite the same ring to it as the "Flying Dutchman" but sometimes Shogan's and others in Agema games need to show care with what they invent to scare the tax payers into paying up as such things can come to game life and bite you! Like the Russian Naval curse which we all know does not exist.

Fully expect every time G10 gets bit quite and the press are short of things to write about:

- More of the Shogan's men will get assassinated by either being torn to bits or having their head removed with art and style

- The Scots to be plagued with Jacobite secret societies writing dodgy verse about the drunkard in Edinburgh spending all their money to protect English and Dutch ships from the ghost ships like the "Frenchman"

- And others to be plagued by Privateers who some how never got the order from Paris that their letter of Marque was cancelled. I mean some poor French messenger has to wait around for ages waiting for the order to be given, then ride a very slow horse along roads infested with Hussars and Swedish robbers. Hire a very slow boat to sail to a coast of ill repute, avoid Lions, large snakes etc to arrive at a castle of even worse repute and then wait for ages for the "master" to return so he can inform him that his letter of Marque is cancelled!

If he is really lucky while waiting he gets to spend time with a charming you lady called Misako - well if you have to flee your home Islands from the maniac in pursuit. I think false trail to Korea and actually catch ship to Manila and vanish into the world of international trade (after all the French treasury minister and X amount of gold has never been seen again in G7). With luck Misako can charm dashing French sailors into giving her lots of free lifts and consider Jacobite contracts to bump off King William not that I would ever advise anyone to deal with Jacobites (They are all mad! Esp their Judges).

For the info of Scots fishery protection and the Shogans hit men - the "Frenchman" is an Elite escort frigate (improved naval gunsights, flintlock mechanisms, screw thread elevators, improved sail and rigging, boomkins, silken sails, stable ship design, coppered, marines and officers are all French Naval graduates) Question is are you feeling lucky punks?

count-de-monet wrote:Im not entirely sure why, stories developing some of the myths and legends of Japan are now appearing in the newspaper the way they are.  This only started the last couple of months.  They are part of orders rather than "newspaper articles".

I think for a year or so now there has been a sort of adjustment of policy on how things go in the newspaper. Anything you write-up and submit to be published goes in the second half, with all the announcements. For the "News" part of the paper Richard seems to take bits from your orders that might be of general interest, and embroider if need be. I've taken to phrasing my orders so that things I would like to see in the news are already in the words I would like to see them appear in (sorry, somewhat un-grammatical, but hopefully you can see what I mean). Things like feasts and celebrations. I also make a point of noting anything I DO NOT want to be made public as "private" or "secret". (Not that that always work either).

6. Austrian Hussars continued rampaging across France leading to merchant shipping being commandeered and sunk to block La Rochelle. The Tsar had noticed Stuart, and while he’s having trouble with the maths in the report, as a player I’m wondering how many ships do you need to block a port, 50-60 seems a bit excessive.

I agree, 6 in game merchantmen (60 units) is excessive given the size of La Rochelle harbour; Balkan types being thorough I guess!

Must say Austria is playing a strange game in 10. They attack their allies the Spaniards this turn invoking the Maritime treaty and falling foul of the Austrian-Spanish treaty and also sink Hanoverian and Russian merchantmen who are supposed to be their friends.

What will the next turn bring.?

Must say Austria is playing a strange game in 10. They attack their allies the Spaniards this turn invoking the Maritime treaty and falling foul of the Austrian-Spanish treaty and also sink Hanoverian and Russian merchantmen who are supposed to be their friends.

What will the next turn bring.?

I disagree, I don’t think it is strange for the King of Naples to be outraged by uninvited Spanish forces occupying a Neopolitan city (Salerno), that could be used as a base by France which has already attacked Naples city twice. Neopolitan forces were used to secure Salerno, not Austrian.

Even in a game it is not logical for an uninvited foreign army to be able to land in your territory and potentially be able to march to the gates of your capital city without you being able to forcefully intervene.

Spain and Austria have a non-aggression treaty but aren’t “allies” given the dispute over the hereditary Hapsburg territories such as Naples, and Spain’s treaty with France.

Recent Austrian control of Naples complicated the interpretation of a simple treaty, with updated Court of Agema rulings redefining the boundaries.

Indeed, what will the next turn bring? Clarity, would Richard allow verbatim Court rulings to be published in the newspaper by a player, or detailed in game letters?

Austria’s allies will need to the judge if the sinkings were deliberate or an unintended consequence of war far from Vienna.

Hapsburg wrote:

Must say Austria is playing a strange game in 10. They attack their allies the Spaniards this turn invoking the Maritime treaty and falling foul of the Austrian-Spanish treaty and also sink Hanoverian and Russian merchantmen who are supposed to be their friends.

What will the next turn bring.?

I disagree, I don’t think it is strange for the King of Naples to be outraged by uninvited Spanish forces occupying a Neopolitan city (Salerno), that could be used as a base by France which has already attacked Naples city twice. Neopolitan forces were used to secure Salerno, not Austrian.

Even in a game it is not logical for an uninvited foreign army to be able to land in your territory and potentially be able to march to the gates of your capital city without you being able to forcefully intervene.

Spain and Austria have a non-aggression treaty but aren’t “allies” given the dispute over the hereditary Hapsburg territories such as Naples, and Spain’s treaty with France.



Recent Austrian control of Naples complicated the interpretation of a simple treaty, with updated Court of Agema rulings redefining the boundaries.

Indeed, what will the next turn bring? Clarity, would Richard allow verbatim Court rulings to be published in the newspaper by a player, or detailed in game letters?

Austria’s allies will need to the judge if the sinkings were deliberate or an unintended consequence of war far from Vienna.

Good point. I think sometimes a court ruling has to be published. That way it shows the truth. If an action is legal or illegal. For example the Spanish army in Salerno has been ruled as legal. This means the Austrian attack is illegal and an act of war. This means Spain’s treaty with the Maritime nation has been breached by Austria. So this point need’s addressing.

Have a good week all.

Not sure if the HRE defence of: "It was not me and by Austrians, it was the King of Naples and local troops who killed all of those Spanish" will stand up in the Court of public opinion.

However, if the Spanish accept that they were attacked by Charles von Hapsburg and troops from Naples and not the Emperor and his men they would seem to have perfectly good grounds for a declaration of war against King Charles and Naples. A war the Emperor's Austrian and Hungarian troops can not join without breaking their treaty with Spain.

Have been in that position myself in other games were option is a) break treaty or b) fail to support family. Either way you seem to suffer a loss of honour!

Gut feeling is that blood is thicker than water and Austrian Court and public opinion will take a harder line on failure to support Charles von Habsburg than if the Emperor ends his rather tatty and unloved treaty with Spain esp since Spain now has a treaty with his French foe who has also attacked Naples. HOWEVER I MAY BE WRONG ABOUT THIS.

Not at all sure about statement that as Spain & Austria have a treaty in G10 that automatically makes them allies of some kind. G7 Hapsburgs have signed several treaties with Louis XIV, doubt if either side would say this makes us allies.

As for the issue of Spanish troops landing in the Kingdom of Naples without invite or saying what they were doing and then getting attacked by local forces. This would seem to be very like when a G7 French Army finished its campaign in the UDP and decided to march across Spanish Flanders without asking permission, paying tax on import of horses etc, etc.

- Spanish view was this was a total violation of Hapsbury territory, violation of Treaty of Scotland promise a couple of years before to withdraw all French troops from Hapsburg lands and either the start of a French invasion of Flanders or the French flaunting their victory over the UDP and trying to humiliate the Government of Spain! And the French forces came under heavy attack.

- French view was that their Army was on a gentile walk across the fields and on their way home when they were attacked by the dastardly Spanish !!

From the lack of movement on the honour table it would seem that the Spanish court and public opinion agreed with their government about the terrible violation of Spanish territory by the French. While the French court and public opinion agreed with Louis XIV about the total over reaction of kill crazy Spanish troops. I would expect a recent events in Naples to produce same type of non-reaction.


Probably of more interest will be the reaction of third parties and how much honour Agema will chop off if they do not react in some way:

- What will the Anglo-Dutch-Scots of William of Orange do about the total mis-use of the Dutch Flag to slaughter the troops of a power who they have signed a mutual defence pact with? Suspect that with Anglo-Dutch-Scots policy dominated by an ambition to restore peace and trade in the Maritime Region and show King William as the arbitor of Europe by getting the Emperor and the French to agree peace in the Hague the answer will be "not a lot". Probably declare a blockade of what is left of the Hapsburg fleet in Naples untill Charles von Hapsburg says he is really sorry and will not fly the Dutch flag again.

- As for what the loved up Czar will do about Russian ships being burnt by Imperial troops. Well inbetween asking what is for tea and saying how nice she looks, he may just ask his new wife to ask he father if he would mind asking the Hussars not too do it again.

Not in the least bit bitter you understand but just think of the fuss if the Corsairs had used a false Dutch flag to butcher Scots fishery protection of if they had torched Russian ship !!!!!?????? So I kind of hope the Estates General and Russian merchants kick off.

Always a knowledgeable and interesting contribution from Stuart.

Hopefully more can be revealed in the newspaper next month. Wonder if Richard would consider adding a section to the newspaper to report alleged breaches of treaty and the Court’s ruling. I am sure we would all find this published aspect of the game fascinating, unless confidentiality is preferred for treaties?

It was reported in the February 1705 edition of the newspaper that the ex-viceroy of Naples transferred control of the Viceroyalty of Naples (including Sicily) to Austria that month.

So, the obvious question, is the existing Spanish-Austrian treaty extended to cover Naples and Sicily?

Hapsburg wrote:Always a knowledgeable and interesting contribution from Stuart.

Hopefully more can be revealed in the newspaper next month. Wonder if Richard would consider adding a section to the newspaper to report alleged breaches of treaty and the Court’s ruling. I am sure we would all find this published aspect of the game fascinating, unless confidentiality is preferred for treaties?

It was reported in the February 1705 edition of the newspaper that the ex-viceroy of Naples transferred control of the Viceroyalty of Naples (including Sicily) to Austria that month.

So, the obvious question, is the existing Spanish-Austrian treaty extended to cover Naples and Sicily?

Well as we have section's on shipping losses and the weather - guess we could have a court report as well. Though I thought we were getting away from viewing "Count Agema" as an actual court in favour of being a "Court of public opinion" reflecting view of a Characters Court and Church towards a Characters actions?

Rather more obvious question would seem to be by what authority did the very ex-Bourbon Viceroy of Naples transfer the Viceroyalty of Naples to Austria? At Max it would seem to be administrative control transferred such as happens when a city governor surrenders administraive control of a city after a siege.

That or the ex-Bourbon Viceroy is now claiming to be the Papal Viceroy surrendering control of a Papal fief? Was about to say pity he is a Viceroy for an ex-Pope
but as Madrid seems to have flipped back to Pope Clement perhaps the actions of a Clementine Viceroy of Naples now had meaning in Madrid? Unless the Spanish Council gets so upset about Pope Clement and his Viceroy pocketing all their bribes (sorry donations to Holy Mother Church) and still giving Naples to someone else that they flip back to Pope Leo XII.

Thought that extensive legal probes by both sides had proved that the Austo-Spanish treaty covered the Kingdom of Spain and the colonial Empire controlled by Cartille and the lands controlled by the Emperor at the time the treaty was signed? Since the Kingdoms of Naples and Sicily are not part of the Crown of Spain or controlled by either party at the time the tresty was signed. Do not see how the treaty can be extended to include them without the mutual agreement of both sides? Do we have this?

So in theory Spain and Austria can have a nice little war to settle Naples and Sicily without breaking the treaty. However, if treaty uses the general "Do not attack by any means" and does not have any Geographic limit's it would seem that Spain broke treatying by attacking Austrian administrative control of Naples by landing troops and Austria is also breaking the treaty by killing them.

However, as I said before in circumstances were both sides have valid reasons to be upset chances are that nothing will happen honour wise to force a change of opinion on either side. And if either side wants to push the matter any further its "Last argument of Kings" time.

Indeed if you do not take action in such circumstances could a position suffer a loss of honour and status? This after all is the period in which a gentleman was expected to be willing to draw sword and defend his honour and the same applied to states?

Surely after having a whole bunch of his servants butchered the true gentleman would just damn the lawyers and questions about were his servants in the other chaps field and just call the bounder out! Or at the very least take a horse whip too him and give him a damn good thrashing !!! (50 Spanish Bomb ketches off Naples?)

Hapsburg wrote:Always a knowledgeable and interesting contribution from Stuart.

Hopefully more can be revealed in the newspaper next month. Wonder if Richard would consider adding a section to the newspaper to report alleged breaches of treaty and the Court’s ruling. I am sure we would all find this published aspect of the game fascinating, unless confidentiality is preferred for treaties?

It was reported in the February 1705 edition of the newspaper that the ex-viceroy of Naples transferred control of the Viceroyalty of Naples (including Sicily) to Austria that month.

So, the obvious question, is the existing Spanish-Austrian treaty extended to cover Naples and Sicily?

Not an obvious question but an obvious answer. Which you and I know the answer too, which is why you have claimed breeches to the treaty in Naples Sicily. The court of Agema has been ruling on Naples, Sicily for many turns now. So yes the treaty covers Naples and Sicily.

I would gladly publish all the courts rulings if that is allowed, on here.?

Not an obvious question but an obvious answer. Which you and I know the answer too, which is why you have claimed breeches to the treaty in Naples Sicily. The court of Agema has been ruling on Naples, Sicily for many turns now. So yes the treaty covers Naples and Sicily.

I would gladly publish all the courts rulings if that is allowed, on here.?

I was avoiding revealing details that were only known to Spain and Austria by asking a general question about the coverage of the treaty. Sorry, I should have explained.

If Court rulings are published in the newspaper, either by Agema or a player, then it would be permitted to reproduce them in the forum and in private messages. Seems reasonable and just my opinion but Richard will have the final say.

I am on annual leave so on the forum more than usual lol

Hapsburg wrote:

Not an obvious question but an obvious answer. Which you and I know the answer too, which is why you have claimed breeches to the treaty in Naples Sicily. The court of Agema has been ruling on Naples, Sicily for many turns now. So yes the treaty covers Naples and Sicily.

I would gladly publish all the courts rulings if that is allowed, on here.?

I was avoiding revealing details that were only known to Spain and Austria by asking a general question about the coverage of the treaty. Sorry, I should have explained.

If Court rulings are published in the newspaper, either by Agema or a player, then it would be permitted to reproduce them in the forum and in private messages. Seems reasonable and just my opinion but Richard will have the final say.

I am on annual leave so on the forum more than usual lol

As only Spain and Austria know what is in the treaty. Others cannot give an accurate opinion. Same as the Spanish- Maritime treaty. Perhaps in reality it’s a good idea to publish Agema court rulings. So every nation know the situation and can play accordingly.?

Have a good holiday.