What’s your best Roman meme?

Stuart Bailey wrote:Doubt that Syria will continue with its invasion of Parthia, esp since I think the original player intention was more to build up military reputation, take over a few buffer states for financial reasons and take firm control of most of the eastern legions ready for when Nero falls of his chariot or something like that.  Rather than try and invade Parthia proper.

In 50 years time from RIB period Trajan junior did invade Parthia will a lot of success.  However this was after Parthia had been weaked by internal wars and Alan invasions and he reinforced the Eastern Legions with the veterans of his conquest of Dacia and most of the Guard.  Also helped that he was Emperor, sane, had a rebuilt Capital & administration which generally worked and did what it was asked.  Plus was not sitting on a ready to explode Jewish revolt at any moment.

If Parthia was not active I suspect Richard would return Roman Legions to home bases and normality would be restored too the East.  However, since the Parthians are player lead and now now got just a little vexed about the threat to skin their King and use him has a foot stool.  The campaign may continue with the Parthian player trying to push back the advances made by the Gov of Syria and generally pose as pro Greek and Jewish liberation and as a re-born Mithradities of Pontus.

Think this offers a big chance for either a new player or a existing eastern based player to take control and save the Roman East from nasty Asiatic Tyrannts and save the day, just like Sulla, Licullus, Pompey and Caesar in the past!  



………

Stuart, great response. It would be good to have another player or two join before it all get too incestuous and we all start linking the enemy as sort of gaming Stockholm Syndrome. (Probably wouldn’t happen) any how you’ve given me a lot of food for thought.

Initially I believe that the vast spaces of the east, the difference in troop types and tactics make this too hard to win and a negotiated settlement would be best and let the Alans crack on. I believe that trade either directly or via third parties continued even during the conflicts so I’d happily let the legions return and maintain that frontier though diplomacy.

Regor wrote:

Stuart, great response. It would be good to have another player or two join before it all get too incestuous and we all start linking the enemy as sort of gaming Stockholm Syndrome. (Probably wouldn’t happen) any how you’ve given me a lot of food for thought.

Initially I believe that the vast spaces of the east, the difference in troop types and tactics make this too hard to win and a negotiated settlement would be best and let the Alans crack on. I believe that trade either directly or via third parties continued even during the conflicts so I’d happily let the legions return and maintain that frontier though diplomacy.

Very sensible and logical proposal. But can you clarify who is going to do the diplomacy with the annoyed Parthians and also explain to Nero what has happened about his foot stool?

Think its going to take a hell of a diplomatic effort to get the Parthians to hand over their King for foot stool duties (King for a day anyone to save lives and probably get the Parthians a hell of a deal?).

As for Rome is Burning mental conditions well I think being Paranoid counts as fairly normal. The RIB version of Stockholm Syndrome were you start to think you have more in common with them on the other side of your immediate frontier rather than your fellow Senators back in Rome should be called "Britannia Syndrome".

But what baffles me is the most un-Roman shortage of meglamania.

Stuart Bailey wrote:

Regor wrote:

Stuart, great response. It would be good to have another player or two join before it all get too incestuous and we all start linking the enemy as sort of gaming Stockholm Syndrome. (Probably wouldn’t happen) any how you’ve given me a lot of food for thought.

Initially I believe that the vast spaces of the east, the difference in troop types and tactics make this too hard to win and a negotiated settlement would be best and let the Alans crack on. I believe that trade either directly or via third parties continued even during the conflicts so I’d happily let the legions return and maintain that frontier though diplomacy.

Very sensible and logical proposal.  But can you clarify who is going to do the diplomacy with the annoyed Parthians and also explain to Nero what has happened about his foot stool?

Think its going to take a hell of a diplomatic effort to get the Parthians to hand over their King for foot stool duties (King for a day anyone to save lives and probably get the Parthians a hell of a deal?).

As for Rome is Burning mental conditions well I think being Paranoid counts as fairly normal.  The RIB version of Stockholm Syndrome were you start to think you have more in common with them on the other side of your immediate frontier rather than your fellow Senators back in Rome should be called "Britannia Syndrome".

But what baffles me is the most un-Roman shortage of meglamania.

Ha! My point is that the Parthians wont need mollifying because of the difficulties they will face against an NPC Roman and the distances to cover. And as for the “footstool” we can pick one up elsewhere so unless you are volunteering to lead the embassy to Parthia.

I admit the paranoia, deny Stockholm Syndrome and will take a rain check on the megalomania!

But then I’m in colder wetter climes.

Regor wrote:

Ha!   My point is that the Parthians wont need mollifying because of the difficulties they will face against an NPC Roman and the distances to cover.  And as for the “footstool” we can pick one up elsewhere so unless you are volunteering to lead the embassy to Parthia.

I admit the paranoia, deny Stockholm Syndrome and will take a rain check on the megalomania!

But then I’m in colder wetter climes.

Pleased to read that your character has not developed Stockholm Syndrome and has the paranoia and megalomania under control. Think this would be fair to say about my chap in team Rome as well.

Would also agree that distance means that the Parthian is not a direct problem for most Roman players. But I would point out in 40 BC to 39 BC a massive Parthian raid trashed most of Roman Syria and found Roman Republican allies in Anatolia and Jewish allies.

Also later on and taking advantage of Roman Civil Wars and internal troubles Zenoba was able to take over Egypt and Syria while the Sassanid Persians were able to take Egypt, Syria and over-run most of Anatolia and found hairy horseman type allies in Europe.

Ok so the Sassanids were better at siege's and had more Elephants than the Partharians. But if team Rome just ignore the problem I am more concerned about a traitor to our beloved Emperor turning all Labienus on us and laying out the red carpet though open gates than I am about the immortals getting off their horses and storming up siege ramps.

May not be a direct threat to many of us but I suspect if Egypt falls - Rome without proper land reform starves and if a large chunk of revenue from Egypt, Syria and/or Anatolia is lost the Imperial Government goes bankrupt without major cost savings.

Question at the moment is what will Nero say/do when after a year he does not get his foot stool? Also which of the Eastern Roman players are going to step forward, get Nero to give them the command and save the day. But if none of them do I would not be so sure as you that Syrian NPC's will stop the Parthian dead. What they may do is hold major cities allowing Parthian light cavalry to trash trade and the countryside untill Nero orders someone to do something if they have not already pushed themselves forward.

PS Do not think we are anywhere near the position were some ex-counsul needs to be dragged out of his North African or Iberian retirement Villa and sent to east. Historically it happened after the Gov of Syria moved south to sort out a small spot of bother in Judea and lost almost a whole Legion ambushed on the march while the Legion in Judea itself pulled out after getting mangled in Street fighting. All of this without a hairy horseman in sight.

Totes... But the Empire has huge resources and momentum. Whatever we lose on one frontier we can recover. Note that we can also claim (historically true) that anyone who send ambassadors to Rome can be included ini the Imperium. Parthia like Rome will shoot its bolt and have to retreat as our troops and tactics suit the less sandy climes and we can reinforce more easily.

However we would struggle if there were say two exterior attacks and a civil war/catastrophe at the same time.

I'm just getting used to the idea that it has taken a game year to partially understand the mere first layer of the RIB universe.

(Bloody clever of Richard to build this however frustrating it sometimes seems)

Regor wrote:Totes... But the Empire has huge resources and momentum. Whatever we lose on one frontier we can recover. Note that we can also claim (historically true) that anyone who send ambassadors to Rome can be included ini the Imperium.  Parthia like Rome will shoot its bolt and have to retreat as our troops and tactics suit the less sandy climes and we can reinforce more easily.

However we would struggle if there were say two exterior attacks and a civil war/catastrophe at the same time.

I'm just getting used to the idea that it has taken a game year to partially understand the mere first layer of the RIB universe.

(Bloody clever of Richard to build this however frustrating it sometimes seems)

First some possible good news for team Rome - The Gov of Syria AKA The man with the plan and the only person who seems to have a clue about what is going on (helps if your History Masters was on the defence of the Roman East) has reported that events in real life have now started to calm down a bit in real life and after carefull consideration of chicken inners (assume over Sunday lunch?) believes he should be in a position to return and save the day at some point, unless things have been too messed up in his absence.

My view is that Rome starts RIB with four Army groups which are either superior (Britannia & Rhine) or roughly equal (Danube & East) to possible oppositon. Plus has reserves in Italy, North Africa and Iberia which can fill a hole in the event of a defeat which involves the loss of a Legion or two but would really struggle to make up for a 2nd Punic War type disaster to a main Army group esp against the Parthians or the Dacians.

Also who fancies trying to get the Guard (roughly a double Strength Legion) out of the nice cosy barracks and on campaign? Basically the Guard goes with the Emperor so if you can get the final Roman reserve to support you.....you also get Nero as well. Which could make life "interesting" for local commanders.

Reason why the strategic reserves of the Imperial Army seem a bit lacking is that for good political reasons but very poor military and economic reasons they have already been sent to a wet, windy and Druid infested Island in the far West and miles and miles of stormy sea's away from were they could be of any possible use!

Regor says we can "reinforce" easily but I want to know has anyone tried any long distance movement of large numbers of troops esp by Sea and how is it working out? Also were do you propose these reinforcements come from while the Guard is well guarding Nero and our strrategic reserves are about as out of position as they can get and not really getting on with the orders of a former Emperor.

In pure military terms we probably need a Soldier Emperor willing to get the Guard a bit dirty and to bring a lot of troops back from Britannia. Question is can team Rome in RIB take the political damage caused by a change of Emperor or a withdraw from Britannia?

As I see it the Senate has three options ref Britannia a) Total withdraw - believed to be favoured option when Nero Government found out how much it was costing them but plan ruined when word got out, Roman money lenders tried to call in loans and the place exploded b) Finish the conquest - policy of Agricola then draw down troop numbers c) Give Picts etc a good hammering and cut the semi good bits of Island off from totally useless bits with a bloody big wall which should allow part withdraw.

Think compared to history may be possible to take political risks in RIB a Roman Government would not. Also troops may move a bit faster but also suspect:

a) The Barbarians may be rather more aware of our problems in other places than they would have been historically and thus more likely to take advantage.

b) The Patharian Empire was probably the most easy going of Rome's foes in the east. The Parthian Kings never seem to have got free of their central Asian background and internal feuds. Their true foes seem to have been members of their own family and in central Asia so apart from the odd period their objective seems to have been good relations with Rome and to keep the silk trade flowing. A policy only disturbed when some Roman wanted to play at being Alexander the Great.

Problem in RIB is that Parthian King does not seem to be looking east and north all the time - where the hell are the Alans, Yueh-Chi, White Huns etc when you need them? And seems to be more like a Sassanid King of Kings (just minus the Elephants)

Rome is Burning showed up yesterday......

Considered doing a summary for players who might be thinking about joining the game and rapidly dropped that idea as while I have a fair idea about what is happening in one small part of Iberia do not have a clue about the rest of the Empire! the Senate or in Barbarian lands. Apart from saying the Senate is not happy.......current collective term for a group of Senators is probably a "Row". The Army is also not happy about many things but esp unhappy that the bloody Praetorians have mislaid the Emperor! One sodding job too do and they can got get that right !! All in all for team Rome this game is a nightmare but oddly addictive for a hard core for the type of player who probably also like long distance running, boxing, to play front row in Rugby or keep wicket in cricket.

Meanwhile the Barbarians seem to be going all mystic with want to be Viking Queen putting her head in a sack and Barbarian Kings having long conversations with Birds who might or might not also be talking to the Gods. The only one's who Rome can vaguely understand are the German Chief unhappy that his sub Chief has not handed the chief his share of the loot and the King of Parthia who decided to spend been Winter at his Winter Palace.

Since Rome is Burning is intended as a War Game here is a very rough guide to why the Roman Army commanders are not happy:

- The Strategic reserve of the Roman Army are currently in Britannia which is totally the wrong place for it to be. But Army needs to finish off the conquest for Political reasons before baulk of troops can be sent somewhere else. British Legions were waiting for XIII Legion and top General to join them so they could finish the job. It now turns out the XIII got to a port but then never got orders to actually sail to Britannia and are still in Italy!

- The Rhine Legions have bridged the Rhine and won local tribe for the Roman Empire without a blow struck. Then arranged shelter and extra rations for the horses and their Auxiliary riders. But then left the Citizen Legions in the open without cover or extra rations and being sniggered at by Civilis and his Batavians. They were also planning to head south to join up with the Danube Legions when info came in that the raiders and enslavers of Roman Citizens are actually Frisoo and too the North meaning they either need to cross the river Lupia (another sodding bridge?) or march round it and through the Teutoburg Wald to get at the foe.

- Danube Legions should be ready to march just as soon as they finish beating various officiers to death for having sticky fingers.

- In Syria the great and noble Governor is over his sweating sickness and ready to rumble against the Patharian again. Just as soon as its clear if he also has command of the troops in Cilicia or not. It seems that Nero gave these troops to Syria, then changed his mind. Then changed his mind again with the Gov of Cilicia taking command of the Praetorians instead of the ex-commander who has been sent to Syria to keep an eye on the Gov of Syria!
But it would seem that not everyone (no one?) in the East is fully up to date with Imperial commands.

- Probably the fact that their old commander is in Syria and their new one still in Cilicia explains why Nero was able to slip out of Rome heading for the "War" without the equal of x2 Legions of Praetorians following him. The Army is now is not sure which frontier its commander in Chief is actually heading for but he is reported as being on the east coast of Italy so probably not Britannia.

Just have to hope the Emperor is not snatched up by slave raiding Dacians, Frisii or a giant Sea Eagles. The later being the reputed fate if the Eagle of the VIII Legion. Though I suspect someone may have been hitting the water of life a bit hard we he thought that one up along with various dried mushrooms and herbs.

It would also seem that team Rome now needs a new Scipio Africanus, Marius, Sulla, Pompey, Lucullus or Julius Caesar to take command in Britannia get the show on the road and the Eagle of the VIII back then crack a few naughty raiding Barbarian heads elsewhere but a Praetorian Guard commander who does not dislay the Emperor will do.
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A succinct appraisal of the current situation. Let us hope that the Romans manage to address the ‘sloshing’ citizens in southern Italy and that the senate makes a decision in the absence of the Emperor.
The Roman faction needs to have stability on the frontiers if there is an ongoing problem in Italy. Or vica versa. And my money is not on the barbarians behaving.

It looks like it takes about 1.5 generations before a new province becomes unlikely to rebel so we need to be wary “spreading” out. However punishing the outsiders for being rude is a well respected custom.

Thank you for the synopsis.

"So I said to Borg, 'Why don't you moon those Roman dogs...'"

Have viewed the Chicken inners and things are still not at all clear.  However, my best estimate for the new year is that the affairs of the Army will take over from rows over building regulations etc in the Senate.  So I was just wondering what players think about:

I) Will Nero last the year?

II) Which General(s) are most likely to cover themselves in Glory and polish up their chances of being seen dressed in purple?

III) Which General(s) are most likely to crash their reputation into a bog, mountain, desert sandstorm (delete as required)

By current answers are I) Yes II) The Gov of Syria III) The Gov of Syria but I will probably be totally wrong on at least two of these. But which two?

Stuart Bailey wrote:Have viewed the Chicken inners and things are still not at all clear.  However, my best estimate for the new year is that the affairs of the Army will take over from rows over building regulations etc in the Senate.  So I was just wondering what players think about:

I) Will Nero last the year?

II) Which General(s) are most likely to cover themselves in Glory and polish up their chances of being seen dressed in purple?

III) Which General(s) are most likely to crash their reputation into a bog, mountain, desert sandstorm (delete as required)

By current answers are I) Yes II) The Gov of Syria III) The Gov of Syria but I will probably be totally wrong on at least two of these.  But which two?

I will take a small wager with you Stuart and the answers of this Roman are:

I) No Nero will be gone by December 819. If he dosent die naturally he will be “offed” by his own side.

II) I think the Rhine commander will be covered in Glory this year. He’s already made a hit with the Frisii and has the power to make (I) above happen. Plus who wants another Winter on the Rhinus.

(III) I think Geminus in Dalmatia will over exert himself.

Send the prize to me by the Cursus Publicus and I’ll be a very old man when I receive it. (So best make it an amphora of new wine).

HNY BTW

Regor wrote:

Stuart Bailey wrote:Have viewed the Chicken inners and things are still not at all clear.  However, my best estimate for the new year is that the affairs of the Army will take over from rows over building regulations etc in the Senate.  So I was just wondering what players think about:

I) Will Nero last the year?

II) Which General(s) are most likely to cover themselves in Glory and polish up their chances of being seen dressed in purple?

III) Which General(s) are most likely to crash their reputation into a bog, mountain, desert sandstorm (delete as required)

By current answers are I) Yes II) The Gov of Syria III) The Gov of Syria but I will probably be totally wrong on at least two of these.  But which two?

I will take a small wager with you Stuart and the answers of this Roman are:

I) No Nero will be gone by December 819. If he dosent die naturally he will be “offed” by his own side.

II) I think the Rhine commander will be covered in Glory this year. He’s already made a hit with the Frisii and has the power to make (I) above happen. Plus who wants another Winter on the Rhinus.

(III) I think Geminus in Dalmatia will over exert himself.

Send the prize to me by the Cursus  Publicus and I’ll be a very old man when I receive it. (So best make it an amphora of new wine).

HNY BTW

Perhaps I should just send the wine by sea to your Villa in Rome?  Rather than risk postmen in need of a drink or Dacian raiders desperate to get hold of some of  good Iberian wine rather than the Balkan drain cleaner they normally drink on the Danube frontier.

Interestingly it seems that due to problems with sending baulk supplies over the Alps and by land, compared to supply by Sea: as the Imperial period advanced the Roman Armies in Britannia and on the Rhine more and more drew their recuits and supplies of wine, olive oil, cloth, metal, horses, and all the other things needed by a culturally southern European professional army less and less from Italy and instead used a mix of local sources including setting up pottery and armies factories on the Rhine and planting the first vinyards in Gaul and Britannia. Plus Iberia and North Africa for things which local sources could not supply in the quality or quantity required.  

The Eastern armies seem to have drawn their supplies locally or from Egypt/Greece but its not really clear how your chaps Danube armies were supplied. When I was in Rumania a few years back they had found what was clearly a major Roman harbour and naval base on the Black Sea coast just south of the Danube near modern Varna.  All top quality stuff (probably Greek workmanship) and thousands of storage amphora.  So I guess one major supply line for Danube Legions is via the Black Sea and then up the Danube.  However, this may be more 2nd century AD and a bit after Nero.

In order to stay historic my chap and the other Iberian leaders (inc Rome born types who have gone "Native" after ten plus years of exile with only his chariots and crack rope dancers to keep him amused) have tried to play historically by setting up depots and making sure that the Iberian raised legions are getting supplies and letters from home plus checking out possible colonna for their veterans.  I mean after twenty year of winters on the Rhine or Northern Britannia and a old spear wound playing up in the damp who would not want a nice Villa somewhere warm and dry?

Which if you are correct about Nero not making it.  Generals who fancy either a restored Republic or themselves in purple are either going to have won so much "Glori" from cracking Barbarian heads that minor provincial matters do not matter or they are going to have to start making with the oratory and promises along lines of "I back Latin rights for Iberia" and "Proper Fire regulations for warm and sunny veteran Colonna".

In terms of total Glory I think total defeat of Parthia or victory in Dacia if other generals mess up should be enough.  But not sure if beating up a few Barbarian tribes in Britannia or Germania or crushing a Jewish revolt will provide enough Glori in isolation too win everyone over without additional oratory/promises.

Will also be interesting to see if how Agema play's it for the General held responsible for the death of Nero since at his death Nero seems to have still been very popular with the lower orders and in provinces like Greece.  While having driven most of the Senate and his senior commanders nuts!  So does Agema have said General viewed as a terrible killer of a beloved Emperor or a Hero who saved Rome from a tyrant and a mad man?  (or Both?).

Would also note that the in game Nero has not yet done many of the really terrible things like the murder of his top general and kicking his wife and unborn child too death which seem to have so damaged his standing.  So if German Legions kill Nero this campaign season and declare for their man could it lead to the Empress and his loyal Egyptain slave fleeing with the babies too Alexandria and pleading with the Eastern Legions and the Polis for their protection?!

Even worse what happens if she were to flee too Carthage and Trajan's mum  what type of option is that?  Disown your old Chariot racing buddy or disown your own Mother and get hunted down by the Rhine Legions wanting too feed him to the Lions?  Could Richard be so nasty to a good and loyal customer? (Well my character in Scrabble ended up with most of a lower leg missing and my character in G10 ended sacked and exiled from the Court in semi disgrace).

Ref the hunt for the missing Eagle of the VIII Legion.

Jason is really not being very kind on putting up a Haugr Barrow as a sacred burial site for northern royals and our Eagle since Haugr is an old Norse word meaning mound or barrow so we have a barrow barrow. Much like my own river Avon which is a river river. Not a generous clue to another possible location of the missing Eagle.

My theory is the Blue Boy sleeps with it under his bed and his new fort comes with secret escape tunnels for that rapid get away into the hills.

However, if want to be "Indiana Jones" types on team Rome in Britannia or even in Germania think its a Temple of Doom type job. The best historic locations to have a look at may be the Ring of Brodgar, The Tomb of the Eagles and the Unstan Chambers Cairn. All of these locations are earlier than out period but show evidence of later use.

- The Ring of Brodgar has been put forward as a type of sacred capital.........a sort of northern version of the Druids Isle of Mon only earlier. If its being brought back into use this could be a claim to sacred authority over the whole of Britannia to replace that of the smashed Druid base.

- Tomb of the Eagles actually refers to Sea Eagle bones found on the site........probably a Cult Animal for the people who used the site. But its a nice link to missing Roman Eagles.

- Unstan Chambers Cairn is multi chambered and is just a nice site. Its also got a type of pottery named after it so perfect to bring back into use for a player with delusions of civilization existing outside the Roman Empire when actually we all know - No Toga = No civilization!

PS Nothing to do with missing Eagles but for a interesting take on Roman v other styles. Ramnants of First Punic War war ships have been raised from the sea off Sicily and several have stamping into their bronze rams. On a Roman one translated as "Lucius Quinctius the son of Gaius, the quaestor, approved this ram" on the sole Carthaginian ram translation offered which may be a bit more dodgy than a translation from Latin is "We pray to Baal that this ram will go into the enemy ship and make a big hole."

One way of looking at the first Punic War is that it was a victory of Roman Officialdom which mobilized fleet after fleet to grind down a bunch of religious fanatics. And lack of respect for the sacred Chickens had nothing at all to do with the number of Roman ships which went down in storms.

Just to say the original attention was to restore the Tomb of Eagles as a ritual site rather than it being a new construction for burial but I think I worded the order badly.  An issue in this game for  "Caledonia" is the relative lack of "authentic" names, so sometimes me and Richard are going to have to use later names and not always in correct contexts.  Devana (aka Aberdeen) is a bit of an exception

An added issue is a lot of the sites up here that aren't later than RIB are a lot earlier, like the Ring of Brodgar, and out of use by RIB times.  Frankly I am playing the position as a bit of a "Celtic Twilight" position (imagine the film "EXcalibur" but in Roman times), and combining that with the "Northern Picts Project" run by Aberdeen University to try and come up with (for example) some authentic-ish sites to include in the game.

As to Roman Eagles (which really aren't welcome), all that is needed is some loose change and Rome can have the thing back!

Jason2 wrote:Just to say the original attention was to restore the Tomb of Eagles as a ritual site rather than it being a new construction for burial but I think I worded the order badly.  An issue in this game for  "Caledonia" is the relative lack of "authentic" names, so sometimes me and Richard are going to have to use later names and not always in correct contexts.  Devana (aka Aberdeen) is a bit of an exception

An added issue is a lot of the sites up here that aren't later than RIB are a lot earlier, like the Ring of Brodgar, and out of use by RIB times.  Frankly I am playing the position as a bit of a "Celtic Twilight" position (imagine the film "EXcalibur" but in Roman times), and combining that with the "Northern Picts Project" run by Aberdeen University to try and come up with (for example) some authentic-ish sites to include in the game.

As to Roman Eagles (which really aren't welcome), all that is needed is some loose change and Rome can have the thing back!

Think its probably fair to say about a lot of sites that while we roughly when they they were built it is less clear about when then dropped out of full time use and what later generations made use of the site for.

Down in my neck of the woods in the South West it seems that Iron age hill forts fell out of use after the Roman Invasion but some were later re-used for original purpose after the Roman's left and the locals were under threat.

While much later in the Saxon period and even later well known locations like hill Iron age forts and chalk carvings were used as muster points by the local feud Fyrd.

Ok Scotland may have a wider selection of hills but if you are sending out messengers and want everyone to gather in say in what is now Oxfordshire for either a feast or a weapon gathering the old hill fort at white horse hill has a lot of advantages like a) everyone knows were it is b) Its a good camp site while waiting round for everyone to show up and c) It gives a great view.

Think its reasonable to say that many sites which had dropped out of full time occupation in our period (improved Iron age ploughs leading to move from hills to richer but heavier river valley soils for day to day life) may have continued to have been used for other purposes. After all look at the use when now put Stone Henge too.............probably gets more visitors now than when first built.

Update: some hill forts in England were re-commissioned in the English Civil War period. There’s one need Ludlow and I think (must check) Danebury, Wilts.

I would argue the archaeological record at a lot of sites does show when they went out of use and if/when they came back into use...and for a lot of sites that went out prior to RIB dates they were out of use during it. If you find a site goes from having lots of use and then period(s) where there is little or no evidence of anything happening there then it is reasonable to say when it was in use and when it wasn't. But then I was an archaeologist before the career change so I am going to say that.

Reuse is always a fascinating one...seem to recall some of the Saxon defences at Wareham in Dorset were worked into anti-tank defences in WW2.

The advantage I do have as Calgacus is I am playing a semi-fictional character (some historians argue Tacitus invented him) who is best known for a speech that he almost certainly didn't actually give. Hey, some historians even reckon Tacitus might have made up the battle too. Add on "Caledonia" in the game most probably wasn't a single political unit in any way and there may not have been a single person or leader who would have been seen as a "King" most of the time, I don't feel I have a historical model to follow so I can bring sites back into use without worrying too much, and go full Celtic Twilight. So bringing the Ring of Brodgar back into use (maybe in a way the Norse might have done) is a possibility.
Think this makes me very different to the Roman positions, from the outside it appears they tend to be known historic individuals leading known legions at known locations. Might be slightly harder for the Romans in-game to do things I can.
Would be interesting to see if the other Northern European non-Roman positions feel the same.

Hillforts are an interesting one. The common understanding is that a lot of them in the Caledonia area (which has always been much smaller then their southern counterparts anyway) had gone out of use by the RIB period, though the Northern Pict Project has suggested that in 2nd C AD and later at least a couple of hillfort sites became proto-towns. so having a couple of oppida with small settled populations isn't too much of a stretch, add in a small number of brochs and I feel I'd have an appropriate number of "sites".

Rome is Burning has showed up and its an outrage!

- My post great fire building regulations amendment (note even a new law!) has been voted down by the Senate.

- I am still getting huge bills from the Roman Builders Guild.

&

- Someone has nicked my messenger as a special Imperial advisor. While my character Trajan the Elder likes to see his clients and freedmen doing well and getting on in the world as it shows the benefits of being educated in Corduba. This is nevertheless the second NPC lost in two months - which is almost like scrabble rates of loss.

On plus side everything seems to be going well back in Iberia with the Sheep, Olive oil, Games, Daughters with child etc

Reports from other places which do not grow Olives so are not really that important would seem to indicate that:-


a) The Parthians have invaded Cappadocia and have smashed local Auxiliary forces flat. In theory the nearest senior Roman too the attack is the Pro-consul of Cilicia.

b) However the Pro-consul of Cilicia is actually in Germany where he is also the commander of the Praetorian Guard and the Guard have now declared he should be the next Emperor and have revolted against Nero. Odd how the revolt of the Pro-consul of Cilicia/Guard Commander in the West happens at the same time as his foe and Nero Loyalist the Gov of Syria gets pinned down in the East by Parthians and Jewish rebels.

c) Leading the Praetorians in a revolt at the link point between the Rhine and Danube Legions while the Emperor is back in Italy with his best General, the Fleet and the Imperial Treasury would only seem to be worth while if the revolt of the Guard is backed up by either the Danube Legions, the Rhine Legions or both. But too date the professional troops of the Rhine and Danube Legions have shown little interest in backing a revolt lead by the Praetorians. Perhaps because they are busy? Or being professional soldiers they dispise the fancy pants professional bullies in the Guard who get paid over twice their rate?

Own personal view is that the Player Character frontier commanders view the Praetorians as Richards pampered NPC's and TROUBLE - Think Jannissary Corp in Glori with extra gold leaf and a wider ability to annoy and upset well everyone really !!

Too date their Commander has made a foe of the very influential Gov of Syria, while the Praetorians have also assaulted and thrown Vespasian brother (and Trajan uncle by marriage) into jail while killing some of his men. They have also insulted and humiliated two if not three of the most powerfull Gens when they nailed up two Noble Ladies in public and murdered a Senator on the steps of the Senate. The sacred chickens do forgive or forget!

In fact unless a Roman General on the Rhine or Danube has second thoughts and throws in with the Guard think its probably fair to say that their Chickens are coming home to roast! Their Goose is cooked etc. If this bunch of time wasters who spend all their time marching round in circles, polishing armour and plotting rather than actually doing any fighting of Barbarians are disbanded this has incidental benefit of saving costs roughly equal too 4 Legions.

As added disincentive to back this revolt. Some of its backers would seem to be nasty and low class bits of work! Assume Senator Pollio is related (Son?) to the Vedius Pollio who Cicero loathed. This would make him the grandson of a freed slave and the son of a man infamous for his seduction of Noble Roman Matrons and for feeding Slaves who annoyed him (by dropping his Crystal glass) to his pet Lampreys. He was also a mate in his early years with Pompey before he changed sides and kept a pet baboon.

Which basically means that upper class Aristrocrats in the Senate would not touch him with a long stick.....unless it had a axe blade attached.

D) Meanwhile in the wild, wild north almost at the edge of the world someone has brought the "The Ring of Brodgar" back. This has been put forward as a type of sacred capital. So in our period just after the Legions have destroyed the great Druid sites on the Isle of Mon. It would seem that someone is trying to build a replacement.

Guess we just have to hope that the British Legion can find the exit from the Bath Houses they built in first couple of turns of RIB but seem to have got stuck in.

Well Stuart you describe the situation well and where the Romans find themselves hobbled by a lame duck emperor. I wonder if the issue of Roman “lethargy” to change the current political situation lies in the fact that the players are still finding their feet in what seems to be “roles”.
And Rome seems to put a strain on any person sent there. iMHO keeping away from the centre of empire seems the safer bet!

Have to agree with the last two posts, Get the feeling the Senate is a game within a game, problem is some bugger has stolen the rule book, so it seems to be a case of making it up as you go along. On the one side there seem to be speeches & proposals. On the other side is an Emperor who basically has the power to block it all anyway. Totally agree with Regor that the frontier facing the barbarian hordes is a much nicer & defiantly safer place than Rome itself

Team Rome currently appears more worried about the Frontiers & the enemy without, rather than the enemy within. With little interest or support for pretenders to the Imperial throne. Looks like the shiny boys in the Guard are on their own will they march on Rome? If they do will the Senate be cowed & simply accept a new Emperor?

J Flower wrote:Have to agree with the last two posts, Get the feeling the Senate is a game within a game, problem is some bugger has stolen the rule book, so it seems to be a case of making it up as you go along. On the one side there seem to be speeches & proposals. On the other side is an Emperor who basically has the power to block it all anyway. Totally agree with Regor that the frontier facing the barbarian hordes is a much nicer & defiantly safer place than Rome itself

Team Rome currently appears more worried about the Frontiers & the enemy without, rather than the enemy within. With little interest or support for pretenders to the Imperial throne. Looks like the shiny boys in the Guard are on their own will they march on Rome? If they do will the Senate be cowed & simply accept a new Emperor?

I may be a bit biased because the Senate keeps voting down my hugely sensible proposals such as those on building regulations.  And I suspect it will also probably vote down equally sensible bills ref land rights for poor settlers in southern Italy and Latin rights for Iberia.  While the Guard has murdered one of my Senators on the steps of the Senate and nailed up a noble lady from my Gens like a common criminal/slave.

But I have come to the conclusion that Richard is playing the NPC's in the Senate as the most bloody minded Glori Parliament/Diet/Estates General/Cortez you have ever come across in Glori and then added at least three  three extra doses of bloody mindness.  Too which some frontier commanders will probably note that Trajan, Gallas and Vespasian are also members of the Senate and while famous for their sweet reason and mild manner.  Would you really want to give men like the hero of the east and the chicken fancier of old Codduba the chance to focus their inner Cato by marching a Army on Rome and trying to cow the Senate?  In some circumstances that probably counts as a fourth dose of bloody mindness.

As for the shiny boys in the Guard I think its probably the G2 Janissary Corp with extra gold leaf and a worse attitude.  Who will be a total liability to anyone who tries to ally with or use them.  Happy to murder anyone who can not fight back but try to get them to actually fight some Barbarians with long swords etc and they will have an attack of the vapours and march in the other direction.

However, the other option is that Richard is going to play them like Alexanders Silver Shields - a total political liability but a deadly military force.  Though I would argue that the Guard by 69 AD were no longer Augustus crack veterans from the civil war but had been show troops and nothing more for a very long time.

Personally for the general information of team Rome think a certain General on the Rhine should arrange a small accident for the Guards Rebel commander.  Restore morale in the Guard in the traditional Roman way with a "decimation" and then allow the other 9 in 10 the chance to restore their honour by marching into the Teutoburg Wald to save Roman citizens enslaved by the Bruceteri.

If they come out with a load of freed Romans and Bruceteri heads we may have a problem like a Silver Shields.....a lethal military force which wants paying on a very, very regular basis.  If they do not come out well they were just a bunch of show ponies and the money can be better spent elsewhere.  New bath house keys for the British Legions, extra Bridges for the Rhine Legions and perhaps some new Auxiliary and Camels for the Eastern Legions?

Hi folks - I came across this short article and thought it might be interesting and helpful: https://historyofyesterday.com/roman-military-physicians-631451ca1c8f

Tell me again why no-one is keen to be Emperor?

Johntindall wrote:

Tell me again why no-one is keen to be Emperor?

Well they do say every political career ends in failure. So unless anyone plans to do a JFK (die young stay pretty) are we up for a restored Republic with really good pension schemes for magistrates?

Gosh, how time flies! I have only just made a thorough study of the last return, the paper and the above thread.
OMG!!!
The Roman East is on the brink if not already into the abyss. There are troops Actually IN Rome and the bloody post has failed. TWO letters was all I got. Perhaps its something I said?
I never thought that chaos could arrive so quickly or divert me from the Iberian Games.
There is lots to consider!
Anyway I wonder if the Gods will permit a battle in and around Rome. Will Nero lurk on the Danube or potter back to …. We’ll where?
Some thing has to give, whose patience - some deus ex machina or a power grab? And again, how does the Senate work? Honestly I have no idea.