Game 10

J Flower wrote:

Lucky for Poland that in all the confusion the annexation of the Ukraine is going on almost unnoticed.

Almost...

Good job the Dutch sent that warship to Archangel, now the Russians have a navy to help retake the Ukraine!

revvaughan wrote:The English Government is interested in what the  has to say...  We need new information for our papers to talk about evidently being the primary reason.  As to French Corsairs...  We love them, they are tasty.  

I know the last couple of English harvests have been bad..........but I had no clue they had been so bad that the English are having to eat sailors

I must admit, I always look forward to the Nov/Dec turn. It often becomes a "wrap up" turn for me, finishing off the remaining things I wanted to achieve in a game-year, a chance to reflect to on what's be achieved

J Flower wrote:Good job the Dutch sent that warship to Archangel, now the Russians have a navy to help retake the Ukraine!

The territory in question is called the Polish Ukraine for a reason.

Unless you are a Russian Tsar, in which case it is termed " The Russian Ukraine"

Kiev is seen as the heart of the Russian Orthodox church, which is why the Russians see Kiev& Ukraine as a whole as an important part of the Rus 7 East Slav inheretence.

Kiev is in Russia in period. It's not in the Polish Ukraine. The events happened in Lvov. Modern map and understanding of 'Ukraine' and in-period understanding aren't the same.



Edit: To quote the Miscellany rulebook

The Polish Ukraine is the regions of the Hetman State, the Polish Cossacks, known as
Right Bank Ukraine. It became a part of the Polish Commonwealth in 1663. This
partition from the Russian Cossacks on the left bank was confirmed by the treaties of
Andrusovo 1667. The rest of the 17th century was pretty chaotic for the Right Bank

Ukraine, and in 1668 Hetman Petro Doroshenko united the Cossacks of both the left
and right banks and declared Ukrainian independence. However by 1672 Doroshenko
lost control of the eastern, left bank, Cossacks to Russia. He attempted to secure
Ottoman help but nevertheless in 1678 Doroshenko’s Cossacks were defeated by the
Russian Cossacks, whose Hetman Ivan Sanoilovych now took his turn to unite all the
Ukraine under his own leadership. Ottoman forces attempted to overthrow his rule in
favour of their preferred allies, and this resulted in the Treaty of Bakchisari 1681 in
which the Dnieper River became the Russo-Ottoman border. The Eternal Peace of
1686 gave the Left Bank Ukraine to Russia, and the Right Bank Ukraine to the Polish
Commonwealth.

Under the terms of the Treaty of Karlowitz 1699 the Polish Cossack rule over
themselves was theoretically abolished but this has not been implemented. Historically
it was from 1700 but this resulted in a revolt which did not end until 1703 (it ended in
a Polish victory).

Well the country with the most of their citizens in it wins, Poland just needs to move lots of their people there with the support of armed support more than Russia, or Russia can march in and they invade Poland. Seems to me not a complicated issue for the two nations. Maybe you can split the country in half Ukraine has no real choices here unless a third party supports them say the Vatican and the Holy Roman Empire or nearby major nations who want to get you busy there and wasting resources?

Anyway anyone else want to study their country I bought a book about Abyssinia from travelers and natives ,translated, covering everything from their native weapons to food (they did eat raw meat off of the game animal as a special treat) to slavery and social classes etc. I find it a hell of a good read and giving me ideas to go with. And it was only a couple bucks used. So did you study and look up details of your nations cultures etc. of those you are running?

I agree with Deacon's interpretation and Miscellany quote re the Ukraine.

Usually I start by reading up on the sovereign, especially if that is my in game persona and then I look for a few of their traits to make more of the in game character a bit like the current Tsar being prone to outbreaks of temper as you may have read in that most notable of publications.

Then I like to read up on courtly society and prominent religion/s to get a flavour for my in game advisors and personalities. Finally I will read up on the wider world of the common folk, especially with reading any folklore I can as that is a good insight into the popular psyche.

Everyone here is great for discussing the wider world and external views and players of countries I am playing are always great for having a conversation, sound board and just sparking ideas off of to help keep the game alive. I almost see my court life in my mind's eye.

My hat's off to everyone on here and in TGOK's many thanks for the fun and enjoyment I have not found in a pb(e)m elsewhere.

Mark

tkolter wrote:Well the country with the most of their citizens in it wins, Poland just needs to move lots of their people there with the support of armed support more than Russia, or Russia can march in and they invade Poland. Seems to me not a complicated issue for the two nations. Maybe you can split the country in half Ukraine has no real choices here unless a third party supports them say the Vatican and the Holy Roman Empire or nearby major nations who want to get you busy there and wasting resources?

Anyway anyone else want to study their country I bought a book about Abyssinia from travelers and natives ,translated, covering everything from their native weapons to food (they did eat raw meat off of the game animal as a special treat) to slavery and social classes etc. I find it a hell of a good read and giving me ideas to go with. And it was only a couple bucks used. So did you study and look up details of your nations cultures etc. of those you are running?

I enjoy doing research about the nations I play. For G10 it was easier as I lived in Scotland for five years and, working in the heritage sector, it was easy for me to access extremely detailed information on the nations history, including a lot that disproves various accepted myths on it. Also meant I found out about unusual industries in Scotland that could prove useful for trade investments.

G7 is harder as I effectively play a fictional position (The Russian Far East). I have used the history of Russian Alaska and Siberia to give me inspiration but there isn't a lot of info out there to give me a historical base.

Good news! The Pope has contacted Rozwi, told us that he needs all the help he can get to sort out the Spanish problem, and asked for a Rozwi presence in Europe! I. KID. YOU. NOT.

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Good news! The Pope has contacted Rozwi, told us that he needs all the help he can get to sort out the Spanish problem, and asked for a Rozwi presence in Europe! I. KID. YOU. NOT.

Was the letter something like this?



If not Rozwi translators may have misinterpreted the letter

Maybe Scotland could represent you on your behalf? I mean what could possibly go wrong?

tkolter wrote:So did you study and look up details of your nations cultures etc. of those you are running?

Yep, as much as I can. Its a continuous, ongoing project in Rozwi's case. Tourism/Travel books provide some useful cultural information or geographical details that can be used in fleshing out the position - I like the Discovery Channel's Insight Guides [books] to help me picture the places I play in Agema games.

Marshal Bombast wrote:
Was the letter something like this?
 ...
If not Rozwi translators may have misinterpreted the letter

Well, the letter did, in all honesty, include a rather large drawing to help us understand. Beat that everyone else!

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:

Marshal Bombast wrote:
Was the letter something like this?
 ...
If not Rozwi translators may have misinterpreted the letter

Well, the letter did, in all honesty, include a rather large drawing to help us understand. Beat that everyone else!  

Given some of the people who play these games, I would dread to think what the drawing was of...

Marshal Bombast wrote:

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Good news! The Pope has contacted Rozwi, told us that he needs all the help he can get to sort out the Spanish problem, and asked for a Rozwi presence in Europe! I. KID. YOU. NOT.

Was the letter something like this?
 


If not Rozwi translators may have misinterpreted the letter

My translation reads:

1) Carlos II of Spain is dead

2) Cardinal Portocarrero solution is

3) Pile of horse manure

4) According to very annoyed Frenchman

5) Who is may run people through with Swords

6) Man with very large Afro heirstyle called in to sort out problem.

If very large Afro is sign of big African Chief I think your translation is spot on  

But what will a General Council of the Church make of it if the Pope starts to consult a Black Necromancer over matters of Church Law    

Nah the guy at the end is Milton Jones after he's combed his hair

Now Milton Jones as Pope might help

Abyssinia found coal, iron ore and a ore I think is copper need to find out more sending samples with my diplomatic consul to go to Portugal to have it analyzed there. So have trade options iron ore I plan to smelt and have coal for furnaces so iron bars should be of value, coal is a valuable domestic fuel and is something we can trade and if we have copper its a pretty sound valuable metal very appealing and marketable.

And with the fortifications in my cities and sewers and other improvement planned and a palace for the Emperor has been funded.

And I'll begin raising troops and begin drilling.

I'm working on my Military Orders once I settle on a strategy.

Agricultural wise I'll in eleven months have 2000 trained farmers to send out to the nation and am doing research.

So all is going well enough.

As for future plans I'm keeping things simple once I get my December return.

A thoroughly interesting turn. More angles & nuances than I can remember in any recent one... certainly a few ‘wheels coming off’ and the diplomatic options to resolve the Spanish Succession multiply.

I value G10 for its multiple layers of cunning and duplicity, mixed with some amazingly well drafted narrative & background by the players. I just reread last turns ‘a Very Polish Coup’ & it was an excellent piece of narrative. Hat’s off to Deacon on that one.

& we have a Pope... as a real life follower of the Prophet (pbuh), I will have to up my research game to ‘Out-Catholic’ the Supreme Pontiff...

Sent from Topic'it App

tkolter wrote:Abyssinia found coal, iron ore and a ore I think is copper need to find out more sending samples with my diplomatic consul to go to Portugal to have it analyzed there. So have trade options iron ore I plan to smelt and have coal for furnaces so iron bars should be of value, coal is a valuable domestic fuel and is something we can trade and if we have copper its a pretty sound valuable metal very appealing and marketable.

And with the fortifications in my cities and sewers and other improvement planned and a palace for the Emperor has been funded.

And I'll begin raising troops and begin drilling.

I'm working on my Military Orders once I settle on a strategy.

Agricultural wise I'll in eleven months have 2000 trained farmers to send out to the nation and am doing research.

So all is going well enough.

As for future plans I'm keeping things simple once I get my December return.

Good to see you're off to a great start

Seems a (possibly) newly active pope has decided to go down the insult route...is he trying to imply only those who are Catholics know the difference between right and wrong? And really basically slagging off all the protestant powers (his dig at their reasons for converting), well is a bit tactless unless you don't want to win friends and influence people...

tkolter wrote:Abyssinia found coal, iron ore and a ore I think is copper

Lucky chap. Rozwi is envious! We've gold (don't know how to properly mine it). And there should be coal at Wankie (not that we've looked for it, yet), but, again, we'd have the same issue with the extracting it out of the ground method.

Stuart Bailey wrote:But what will a General Council of the Church make of it if the Pope starts to consult a Black Necromancer over matters of Church Law

The Changamire thought that one of the main articles of faith with the Christian Church was something to do with a dead chap coming back to life!

Anyway, Rozwi's not too sure about this Christianity business. Something about eating the flesh and drinking the blood as a form of worship ... we aren't cannibals you know!

Europe sounds like its a place filled with evil magic and strange customs. Africa is far safer for us poor Black chaps  

[the above is obviously written in-character, is not meant to offend Christians, but illustrate what, possibly, the Africans would think of other religions]

Interesting indeed.  Not really sure what to make of the Russian letter, nor why the desire to post it as an open letter after we'd exchanged a couple of normal letters about things like the spanish succession. That is puzzling to me.

I have to say that being accused of planning to attack Russia because you ordered road construction is  brand new one.  On the off chance someone here doesn't know, I'll point out that the primary value of roads and canals in game is to improve your economic health.

The Crimea thing is a bit baffling too. Crimea is about 1,000 KM away, give or take and under Tatar control under the Ottomans. I went back through the newspapers and can't even find anything on the Crimea except some requests for grain/fish that mention them. Anybody know what Russia is going on about? I do miss stuff in the paper when I don't think it affects me. It sounds like he's suggesting we have some kind of secret alliance with the Ottomans. While I like to think I'm an innovative thinker in the game, that is a pretty big damn leap given Poland's role in breaking the Siege of Vienna!

I guess the part about a devilish design to subjugate the Polish Cossacks and end the rebellion part is true after a fashion. Strange wanting to end rebellions, I know. (see my previous post and rulebook quote on the in-game situation in Polish Ukraine)

The Spanish succession continues to be interesting.

Not really sure what the Pastoral letter is going on about. Has somebody been nicking Church lands and I missed it? Again, I tend to mostly focus on my stuff in game and can miss that sort of thing.

From experience with Rozwi, our roads haven't had an obvious positive effect on our economic health, but have significantly decreased the travel time for military movements.

When I was learning History at school the building of the autobahns in Germany during the 1930s was really stressed as an important preparation to the future war. I suppose the same with the Romans, which, again, we were taught the importance of their road system for quick troop movement. This has always stuck with me with LGDR/TGOK and Scramble, so road building has always had a military significance to my mind.

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:The Changamire thought that one of the main articles of faith with the Christian Church was something to do with a dead chap coming back to life!

Anyway, Rozwi's not too sure about this Christianity business. Something about eating the flesh and drinking the blood as a form of worship ... we aren't cannibals you know!

Europe sounds like its a place filled with evil magic and strange customs. Africa is far safer for us poor Black chaps  

[the above is obviously written in-character, is not meant to offend Christians, but illustrate what, possibly, the Africans would think of other religions]

This is why you are better off dealing with us nice Northern Europeans, none of this fleshing-eating, blood-drinking nonsense...and we won't try and convert you either