Game 10

Maybe, we haven't seen the last play of the whole piece, but this is definatly a defining moment in the future structure & direction of this particular game of LGDR.

Will amulti -player Spanish Empire position work? I think mos tprobably so long as they all have a common goal & someone giving it all a direction then it will, it will become more difficult if tensions between the factions develop, or if parties retire from the game leaving parts of the Empie NPC, but at the moment the outlook is good. Especially when allied to France, basically the rest of us can pack our bags & start asking Richard for start up positions in game 11.

I'm guessing the Game 11 comment was in jest, J Flower?

As Deacons says, nothing has been played out to a conclusion in Game 10 concerning the War of the Spanish Succession, though the team of allied players headed by France does seem to be enjoying themselves from what we read in the newspaper. But the Anglo-Scottish-UDP party, and the Austrian-led group can alter it all with some clever propaganda, useful espionage and strong-handed military power plays. Then there's Portugal, and the GM. No matter who thinks themselves the rulers of Spain, the Spanish mobile vulgas may just tip the balance and make the place a Spanish ulcer.

Come on the Anti-French League. Play up and win a few rounds in the newspaper yourselves!

The French party has played well so far...but i'm with the "let's wait and see" party. I agree with Rozwi, there's still the League of Very Nice Gentlemen out there, as well as the Austrian Party (though Austria does seem to be invisible), Portugal, along with Richard...

Even if the French Party win the throne, I wonder if the Game might have a few little tricks ready for them? A Spanish economy on the verge of collapse for example? A few years of harvest failure (and maybe a few bumper years in England/UDP/Scotland for a change? hint hint ), colonial uprisings and a massive case of food poisoning caused by a dodgy paella leading to half the Spanish nobility dying after a banquet?
Who knows, winning might turn out to be worse than losing the Spanish throne...

Oh...and lets not forget the Baltic-I think Russia,Sweden, Denmark and Poland active-. A Great Northern War could be on the cards.

Plenty of life in the game yet Roy.

Perhaps we should all get round the table with a bottle of vodka, share our thoughts and feelings with the last monarch standing being the winner?

No William cannot send a Scottish representative as stand in!

If England or the U.D.P side with France then Louis will have a free hand. If they remain neutral the HRE and Italian allies will need to remain united to contain France in the medium term. If they side with Austria it will be an even contest but overtime France and its allies will make concessions.

I will play until Richard finishes the game - just as in game 3 lol.

Marshal Bombast wrote:Plenty of life in the game yet Roy.

Perhaps we should all get round the table with a bottle of vodka, share our thoughts and feelings with the last monarch standing being the winner?    

No William cannot send a Scottish representative as stand in!

Spoilsport

Anyway, I'll be in til the end, when all other kingdoms are laid waste due to war and only Scotland survives as a last holdout of civilisation

could all be settled with a bout of " Handbags at dawn" on the pub carpark.

An appeal to the French & Austrian factions, please do not let Scotland be the last bastion of civilisation.

Can someone also please explain just what the war is going to be over, it seems the throne issue has been decided by France putting it's man in place, surely the deal is none & dusted......

My view is that it is likely that France will get what it wants, Austria will get what it wants, and Spain will come out of it a smaller empire. Much like history, minus a very long war.

What happens after that is the question to me.

I wonder if, in regards what happens next, if we are all forgetting about Spain?

Is the questionable birth still on the throne or did he abdicate? I can't remember.

Even if he has, I suspect the new French monarch will find their rule being disputed throughout the Spanish empire (with perhaps some areas offering the throne to other candidates?) so they will need to put down revolts and the like...with France having to send armies in to assist...

...who knows, we might find out that 'winning' the throne wasn't actually winning

Thanks for the kind words about the French faction. On another point about the thread, I did come across a fish and chip shop in Scotland about 4 years ago selling deep fried mars bars outside of Glasgow. I thought that it was just an urban myth, bought one, but when ordering a deep fried mars bar the shop was thrown into turmoil. So I think actually it is just an urban myth that the Scots play up to, if they regularly sold them it would have caused less commotion. No offense is intended to our friends up north with this observation.

I hate to be a bother from the bottom of the rung, Swashbuckler, but could we know a bit of what is going on in the game at our level there is a spot for updates and the like I think and no one is posting there and the actions of the mighty does affect the plans of the modest player to.

At least the big news hard to miss wars and the like since well say my Henri wants to work and there is a war he could try to join the Quartermaster's arm of the French Army or join the hangars on and camp followers to mend and tend to uniforms and boots and make things for the common soldier like extra warm long underwear. (Well for a young man one must chase opportunity!) Just saying why should I buy a newspaper for this some things should be general common news I would think.

[Sorry if this is the wrong place to do this but I'm in this game to and well need to mention I feel ignored as to not having vital game news and opportunities it could lead me to in the game.]

Basileus wrote:Thanks for the kind words about the French faction. On another point about the thread, I did come across a fish and chip shop in Scotland about 4 years ago selling deep fried mars bars outside of Glasgow. I thought that it was just an urban myth, bought one, but when ordering a deep fried mars bar the shop was thrown into turmoil. So I think actually it is just an urban myth that the Scots play up to, if they regularly sold them it would have caused less commotion. No offense is intended to our friends up north with this observation.

The deep fried mars bar is an odd one. It is associated with Glasgow but isn't from there.

The deep fried mars bar was actually invented in Aberdeenshire, in the village of Stonehaven. There are two famous fish and chip shops in Stonehaven, "The Bay" has won "Best UK F&C shop" on several occasions...and the "Carron"which claims to be the birth place of the deep fried mars bar (and apparently with good evidence). I used to take my custom to The Bay before anyone asks The Carron does sell quite a few, in fact a couple of years back it was asked to take down a sign making the claim because so many school kids were asking for them for their lunch (last time I was in Stonehaven, about 2 months back, the sign was still there).

You get to learn which places offer it on the menu for effect (which sounds like the one Basileus encountered) and which ones regularly sell them. There is a pub in Aberdeen, called "Blackfriars", that sells them on a regular basis but I don't know of anywhere in Edinburgh (for example) that has them on the menu for anything other than effect.

tkolter wrote:I hate to be a bother from the bottom of the rung, Swashbuckler, but could we know a bit of what is going on in the game at our level there is a spot for updates and the like I think and no one is posting there and the actions of the mighty does affect the plans of the modest player to.

At least the big news hard to miss wars and the like since well say my Henri wants to work and there is a war he could try to join the Quartermaster's arm of the French Army or join the hangars on and camp followers to mend and tend to uniforms and boots and make things for the common soldier like extra warm long underwear. (Well for a young man one must chase opportunity!) Just saying why should I buy a newspaper for this some things should be general common news I would think.

[Sorry if this is the wrong place to do this but I'm in this game to and well need to mention I feel ignored as to not having vital game news and opportunities it could lead me to in the game.]

Someone (often Stuart) does post a summary of the newspaper each turn, expect someone will in the next day or so If you look back over recent pages you should find some of the updates.

Basically, we are still building up to something but no one is quite sure what it is. There is a small undeclared war taking place at sea (Tuscany v one of the Spanish claimants to the throne). The Duke of Savoy is taking in the homeless (aka James Stuart and his family). Poland is the most honourable nation while Scotland is a land of whisky and witty putdowns of anyone who upsets their government.

To swashbucklers on the messageboard…..maybe a trip to Japan could provide some lively action ? An European person would potentially face day to day risk to their life, be a little like a fish out of water, learn to "go native" (The Last Samurai) and become a warrior, lots of intrigue with 13 major clans, two current rebellions, lots of pilgrimage opportunities and commissions to open the East for the Europeans and trade.

Trying hard to bring some non-European focus to our game world !!

tkolter wrote:I hate to be a bother from the bottom of the rung, Swashbuckler, but could we know a bit of what is going on in the game at our level there is a spot for updates and the like I think and no one is posting there and the actions of the mighty does affect the plans of the modest player to.

At least the big news hard to miss wars and the like since well say my Henri wants to work and there is a war he could try to join the Quartermaster's arm of the French Army or join the hangars on and camp followers to mend and tend to uniforms and boots and make things for the common soldier like extra warm long underwear. (Well for a young man one must chase opportunity!) Just saying why should I buy a newspaper for this some things should be general common news I would think.

[Sorry if this is the wrong place to do this but I'm in this game to and well need to mention I feel ignored as to not having vital game news and opportunities it could lead me to in the game.]

Has Henri ever considered going to sea as something like a craftsman or a purser or purser's mate? Basically you make up and sale clothing & other items to the crew and contribute to the supply/logistics of the ship.

For a greater chance of fun, profit and adventure and a greatly reduced chance of getting hung for Piracy rather than joining the main Royal Navy, a merchant ship or a pirate you may wish to consider joining the Privateering Branch of the French Navy.

For info the Frenco-Spanish privateer's are currently on a recruiting mission (full press of ships and crew) for King Philip's Navy. Following our 100% legal orders we were rudely stopped from carrying out our duty and the Bourbon Flag INSULTED by Tuscan frigates under the orders of a mere Grand Duke. So we gave them a small lesson in manners and why the Lilly Banner and the servants of the Royal House of Bourbon should not be insulted or blocked. Then "pressed" another eight ships into King Philip's Navy.....with Crews given chance to volunteer and claim the bounty. Pity we missed Captain Pratesi and the St Joseph but his time will come.

As well as knocking up pursers slops and shoes for the crew how well does Henri know his Rum, Tobacco, Sail Cloth, Hemp, Timber, putting a sharp on a blade? Plus markets for "items" he may take as payment in kind?

ITS A MANS LIFE IN THE PRIVATEERING BRANCH OF THE FRENCH NAVY - JOIN TODAY!!!

(For reasons why not - you may like to apply for a Scots or Venetian legal opinion.)

J Flower wrote:could all be settled with a bout of " Handbags at dawn" on the pub carpark.

An appeal to the French & Austrian factions, please do not let Scotland be the last bastion of civilisation.

Can someone also please explain just what the war is going to be over, it seems the throne issue has been decided by France putting it's man in place, surely the deal is none & dusted......

Any war will be over the lack of a comprehensive agreement, signed by all major parties - with territories shared out. As in history and in the game, the coronation of France's man as King of Spain, without the agreement of the major powers, could be the cause of the war. Although to me, based on reports in the newspaper, it started months ago, just never declared

Well, given the fact we have the naughty "we're not pirates honest gov" French-pretending-to-be-Spanish sinking Tuscan warships (who were doing the decent thing, protecting innocent merchant ships). I think the war is very much on.

I wonder if the Tuscans would like a few Scottish maritime lawyers to advise them?

Jason wrote:Well, given the fact we have the naughty "we're not pirates honest gov" French-pretending-to-be-Spanish sinking Tuscan warships (who were doing the decent thing, protecting innocent merchant ships). I think the war is very much on.

I wonder if the Tuscans would like a few Scottish maritime lawyers to advise them?

Why is G10 so wound up with legal opinions?? No Government seems to be willing to do a thing without reference to some point of law circa 1302. Even the poor little French Corsairs are wishing they invested in legal firms and have had to move to new offices with the Paris Exchange on one side and their Solicitors just across the Street.

Ships Doctors OK, Even Ships Priests but Ships having to carry their own lawyer:scratch:

Away according to French Maritime Lawyers we were outside of territorial waters (so no nasty bye-laws Scots or otherwise) and were acting on a perfectly good contract from King Philip which means that we were acting within the law when "pressing" his subjects ships, supplies and crews into his forces for the duration off the emergency.

Note according to law passed in the 1660 the English Royal Navy has exactly right over the subjects of King William and their ships and supplies and the French Navy has the same rights over King Louis subjects. So do Scots lawyers deny the same right to King Philip? Naturally I sent receipts to the owners of said ships so they can claim compensation from King Philip's Government in Madrid. Its not my fault that government admin of such claims may currently be a bit on the slow side!

So what we had were some very nice and legal privateers acting for King Philip and his noble minister of Marine and Colonies when a bunch of Italians deliberately got in the way and showed a total lack of respect to the Bourbon Standard. Kind of hard to miss its big, its white and its got three gold lillies on it!

Since its not that long ago that the English & Dutch fought a full fleet action over failure to salute the English flag it has to be asked what the Tuscans expected to happen if you go around insulting the Bourbon Standard? And what solution will Scots Maritime lawyers propose?

The Dutch legal reply to the English getting upset about a insulted flag was to declare war. So is the considered legal advise of MacDonald, MacDougal, Grabbit and Runne of the famous Edinburgh legal firm to the Grand Duke to declare war on the Royal House of Bourbon?

If Tuscan's send a Lawyer to hand over the declaration of law would it be more fun to:

a) Make him walk the plank?
b) Kneel haul him?
c) BBQ West Indies style?

Problem is it will probably happen at Versailles and Louis XIV gets funny about water stains on his carpets.

"King" Phillipe? Sorry, remind me, which nation has a crowned monarch called Phillipe?

I know that one of the claimants to the Spanish throne is Phillipe but that claim is still disputed, not least by the Spanish, and I don't recall his coronation (I mean, surely it would have made the papers).

Calling oneself King of Spain does't make it so-as James Stuart knows...indeed at this time I think the English kings still styled themselves "King of France" among their titles...so if Phillipe is going to go around exercising rights as King of Spain, maybe King William could exercise his rights over France?

Jason wrote:"King" Phillipe?  Sorry, remind me, which nation has a crowned monarch called Phillipe?

I know that one of the claimants to the Spanish throne is Phillipe but that claim is still disputed, not least by the Spanish, and I don't recall his coronation (I mean, surely it would have made the papers).

Calling oneself King of Spain does't make it so-as James Stuart knows...indeed at this time I think the English kings still styled themselves "King of France" among their titles...so if Phillipe is going to go around exercising rights as King of Spain, maybe King William could exercise his rights over France?

The King (Carlos II) is dead........Long live the King. If as the legitimate Catholic heir King Philip ends up as King of Spain, King of Naples, Duke of Milan & Duke of Flanders as per the law of Spain etc (confirmed by the Pope) or with only one or two of the titles as per agreement between King Louis & King William to keep the balance of power in Europe does not matter from the legal point of view ref his letters of Marque.

What matters is that he has a Royal Title and his letters of marque are accepted by French Courts:D

The fact that the captains of the Grand Fence Sitter are blind and can not read and accept my lovely letters of Marque (with proper fancy legal terms and really nice seals with Lillies! and everything) is just a occupational hazard like storms and reefs.

Wonder if Marine Underwriters when considering rates for Tuscan shipping have considered that having such bad eye sight at sea makes them a a really bad risk. Would be a terrible shame if the Tuscan ships started to run into rocks not to mention the fire risk;)

Think it may be time for The Royal Navy to do a sweep of the Med to remove all those naughty Pirates & protect the innocent merchant , admitted finding & innocent Merchant maybe a lot harder said than done, but those pirates & privateers are certainly naughty men who deserve the feather duster treatment, if worst comes to worst then the comfy chair may also have to be dusted down!

To someone outside the loop, it appears French flagged ships with letters of Marque are attacking Spanish flagged Merchant shipping, Obviously that isn't piracy as a legitimate government is seizing the property of the citizens of another legally appointed government. If its not Piracy then it must have another name.

Not quite sure what it is called can anyone please help me with this one? Please:

Letters of Marque are only valid if a state of war has been declared. I don't recall any being declared.

So by all means, go pick up some pirates with fancy and worthless pieces of paper and let them explain it to Davy Jones when they visit his locker. The papers are probably forged anyway, because clearly France wouldn't be giving out letters of marque when they aren't at war, right?

Deacon wrote:Letters of Marque are only valid if a state of war has been declared. I don't recall any being declared.

So by all means, go pick up some pirates with fancy and worthless pieces of paper and let them explain it to Davy Jones when they visit his locker. The papers are probably forged anyway, because clearly France wouldn't be giving out letters of marque when they aren't at war, right?

Technically no the Corsairs and Privateers were under their governments military control so could intercept pirates, deal with native uprisings, slave revolts, protect shipping as escorts and do any other duty under their nations flag. The Corsairs were for France their navy they never had enough proper warships to do the job.

Say for an example there were native issues in Canada any ship able to move on the large rivers and Great Lakes could be sent to reinforce French interests and be allowed to gather booty from the natives in payment plus strike a deal from the colony governor for payments as well and likely from traders and merchants. And it was a proper use of force. And this would be a show the flag situation to the British saying we are at peace but we go to war this manned and armed ship will go after your colonies and shipping but we are just tending to some other issues and this is not a hostile action against you.

Another say war isn't in play but English Privateers are causing issues for Spain which really happened outside of a declared war, the British could turn a blind eye to such activity and well couldn't do much if captured at sea since they were pirating. But they could be safe at home colonies and the national ports since its a case of bad sea dogs you are being naughty but are British. Of course any other nation could justify taking these ships as pirates under maritime law and Spain might encourage it with a sum for bringing the crew in to their ports.

The French example would be just duty and the later not the ship you understand is acting as a vessel of the respective nation as long as they follow the proper code of conduct and are operating under proper orders they are ships of the nations military.

I will add many were also proper trading ships attached to trading companies so were also carrying goods and hunting down pirates since well they needed to earn money just taking prizes was really good money a captured pirate ship even if turned back to the original owners if captured demanded large bounties, often ordered by the privateer nations ports judicial orders before being returned. Think of most Privateers as a Naval Reserve with the added bonus if attacked by another nations ships would be an act of war on a military target since a Privateer would be bannered always as one.

So privateers were an interesting lot the French used them as a standing force and the English for example only during a war most would fall in these approaches based on it seems need.


(Sorry for pitching in but well wanted to help clear things up some.)

All may be true, but are not really what I was trying to address. I was perhaps little too loose in my statement, but we were discussing piracy vs privateering, not other actions a privateer could take.

If a privateer is taking prizes off another nation and there is no declared war, then that's an act of piracy and would be treated as such by most nations. Saying they have a letter of marque wouldn't hold much water with anybody who caught them doing it.

There are, of course, always exceptions and grey areas, but that doesn't change the general principle.

Oh simple rule then that no legitimate privateer or government could ignore and was normal as warships if a privateer had written orders from the respective government or any government official of sufficient rank a governor, known admiral under his fleet area or similar person and they had letters of marque and the orders in hand with proper signature and seals etc. it was a justified action. As in a ship under orders committing an act of hostility. The privateer vessel would be assumed to be acting justly and taken as POWs until such time as the documents could be verified. Of course the ordering party would have to answer to their government and well a governor tempting war with another power would likely not be a governor long. And could be handed over for trial the very crew they ordered witnessing against them in the wronged nations court.

Also the dispensation of the governments matter in the Revolutionary War there were ample American Privateer ships and it was the goodness of the British that let them get away with it if they were from the colonies, they could easily have been declared pirates and dealt with but they didn't want their colonies to be hating them when they won.

But simple Letters plus Proper Written Order equaled a ship of war, when no War is active, and it tended to be enough. At least to avoid claims of Piracy if they ended up in neutral ports or captured and said we are following lawful orders.