Game 10

Deacon wrote:That really isn't true about the 'absolute' authority of the pope within the church.

Witness Pope Francis' issues today. The Synod of bishops still hold a great deal of power in the catholic faith. It is a common view that the Pope is absolute, but actually isn't. That said, it is pretty close to absolute. Given that most royals of the period are claiming divine right, I'm not sure that I find the argument of separation of powers all that compelling. It feels modern to me.

Acknowledged Jason you weren't making that claim, just that _if_ you wanted to make the claim that the Anglicans hark back to an older church, you'd need some basis for that and I don't see any. That said, history does rather suggest that the Irish can make the claim of being the real crucible of European Christiandom. As you mention, I'm not sure how much of that was known in the early 1700s.

I get it though. The Pope and France are very popular whipping boys in Glory. People like to score points off them. Not so different today, really

Okay in the period who is the religious authority of the Holy Roman Empire and its Emperor ... the Pope. And true my nations Emperor is holding authority by the wishes of God however there is Biblical precedent for a separation of some power for example in the Hebrew Nation one tribe are the Priests and Prophets speak for God while the Kings tended to the secular duties. I can go on. He is not a radical its there is one state church with the clergy tending to matters of faith and the Emperor heading the matters of secular concern protected by God and guided by God since the Ark of the Covenant is theirs after long ago a miracle of God. (They have story covering this in their Bible.)

There is always the danger of mixing Relegion with Politics , there is always the danger that worldly & spritual matters become so entwined that it is ahrd to tell the difference.

We all know in game that making pro/ anti relegious statements in game is a good way of"scoring" honour points, which sometimes moves relegion inot the center of the game.
It is also often used as a reason for aggressive action rather than a true land grabbing exercise, players try & paint over the cracks in their arguments by doing it in the name of a particular faith.

Deacon is right the Papal posiiton & France are often the whipping boy posiitons in LGDR, but don't forget those players have feelings to.....

tkolter wrote:

Okay in the period who is the religious authority of the Holy Roman Empire and its Emperor ... the Pope.

who are two different people so the very separation you're talking about. The only place where the two are one is in the Papal States, which in game terms is a relatively small chunk of italy.

The Pope doesn't have temporal authority over most of his flock, so I'm not sure what point you're making here. Almost all religions in period have a religious hierarchy, so pretty much everybody has a temporal leader and a religious leader. The game has its roots as a war game so most people play the secular leaders who have more 'power', but there are plenty of other patriarchs around beside the Pope. The Orthodox can practically field a full football team of patriarchs  

Most of the time the Pope isn't even in play because it isn't considered that good a position.

Have to admit that all this religious stuff is going right over my head. Another reason why I play Rozwi!

Can we not talk about something more fun... Like, what does Deacon mean when he says "football"?

A game played by kicking the ball with your foot? Or a game where you mainly hold it in your hands?

Anyway, when is there going to be an international sporting event in Game 10? I'm sure I can remember reading about a big international (horse) racing meet in one of the old games of LGDR.

Aaargh! The price of being popular. Four letters written and sent out to various nations this December 1702 game turn. Most. Ever. Written. In one month.

I tell you, I choose to play at the bottom of the World away from everyone and everyone wants to pop down and say hello. Maybe my plan to shift the game play away from Europe is finally working

You know Roy, I was only thinking I'd feel sorry for any other European ambassadors in your realm...one minute having to work out what the hell the Rozwi are saying for them...then to bump into the Scottish ambassador, Glover, who starts talking to them in his broad Aberdonian accent, maybe with some Doric thrown in...

Okay let talk fun, I plan next year to sponsor a horserace next year, a race of endurance and distance with a serious prize for first and second place enough to draw in serious competition from across the known world. It will go around the Empire including the hills and mountains. To honor the completion of the new Imperial Palace and wedding at that time. So will be a big deal.

Barring financial issues being in place.

Jason, there are resident French and Portuguese speakers at Inhambane, as well as Bantu dialects and Swahili, so it isn't quite the backwater that I first imagined

Rozwi has had to take a look at how its internal governance, regarding foreign diplomatic matters and hosted embassies, works. There's been a few methods/practices given, this month, to be put in place to help out us/them when it comes to visitors. All very much in the Zulu-Chinese-Japanese view on visitors, though not as restrictive nor punishable by unpleasantness. Strict processes and requirements, no stepping out of line where not allowed, that sort of thing. Rozwi hasn't resorted to putting guards on visitors...yet

Tkolter-sounds something to look forward to

Roy-I suspect the French and Portuguese would find Bantu and Swahili more intelligible than Doric

Yeah, well... I've also had to try and get my head around the religious beliefs of Rozwi this last turn Might need to be a case of skimming over the old indigenous religion in the game, as it sounds about as straightforward to plot a route through as my understanding of Christianity. Religious aspects of the game are definitely not a personal strength

I always end up writing a lot of letters. Often takes more time to do the letters than the turn!

As for which kind of football, take your pick! There are a LOT of Christian Patriarchs floating around: List of Christian Patriarchs

The Obvious solution to the foot ball question, is Rugby Football, whereby you can use both hands & feet, plus there is no need to kiss the goal scorer after he has scored. As an added bonus the after match singing is also better

That gives me the rather amusing image of the Orthodox Patriarchs and the Pope and College of Cardinals fighting it out in a scrum.

Rozwi_Game10 wrote:Yeah, well... I've also had to try and get my head around the religious beliefs of Rozwi this last turn Might need to be a case of skimming over the old indigenous religion in the game, as it sounds about as straightforward to plot a route through as my understanding of Christianity. Religious aspects of the game are definitely not a personal strength  

I'll send missionaries to fix that and bring them to God if they choose to convert.

[quote="J Flower"]Gents,

I need a bit of help I seem to have mislaid a news paper from one of the more recent turns, it was the one that had all the stuff about the coronation of Prince Philip in Madrid, I can't seem to find it anywhere, it must have happened because in this turns paper he is using  the title of king, odd that I missed it.

Also thought the Pope was going to decide who got crown in Spain, oh dear, it must be all the Weizen bier getting to me again.

So who is actually in charge in Flanders? seems a matter of some debate.
(/quote]


I think people will be pleased to hear that I have finally semi-solved the issue of the succession crisis in G10

Basically unless you have a elected King on the Polish model there are no gaps in Royalty. When a King dies his heir is immediately King as in "The King is Dead.....long live the King" you do not actually need a Coronation to make you King.

Under the law of Spain Philip of Anjou is King of Spain & Naples as well as being Duke of Milan and Duke of Flanders. But to avoid wars, upsets to the balance of power etc a partition of Carlos II inheritence was agreed both in the will and in various partition treaties with Philip of Anjou being made King of Naples and Duke of Flanders plus some colinies while the other legitinate heir got the Crown of Spain and the Duchy of Milan (with option to swap for Flanders). So both Philip and Charles can call themselves Kings the moment Carlos II passed away.

Unfortunately, Charles von Hapsburg showed no interest in an exchange of Flanders for Milan but has de-facto has swapped Naples for Milan and also seems to have sold his Spanish inheritence to the the King of Portugal. Well he better have sold it of the Stadtholder has been a very naught boy in backing a illegitimate claim and breaking the letter and spirit of a treaty with France!

Now if the Hapsburg confirm that they have sold the Spanish inheritance so giving the King of Portugal legitimate claim I suspect Louis XIV may well prefer the King of Portugal to his south than a son of the Emperor. Also while Milan is a lot smaller than Naples it is closer to home so the Bourbons can probably live with this as well (perhaps with a couple of Islands to make up the numbers).

Sadly however x2 Duchies even if they are really nice does not give King Philip the promised Royal.

But fear not for I have come up with two possible solution a) Aragon or b) Add a few bits (Tuscany is nice at this time of year) and get the Pope to ungrades the Duchy of Milan to the Kingdom of Lombardy.

"Simples" who could object to a united Iberia with domination of European trade with the America's, India, Far East and probably Africa. While both the legitimate Bourbon & Hapsburg heirs get Royal Titles and a reasonable inheritence. What could possibly go wrong?
I

Maybe we could just say Milan is now a kingdom, I mean if one Indian city can suddenly be a Grand Duchy then a long-established Duchy should be able to able to become a kingdom?

Which reminds me Stuart, I assume your privateer fleet is preparing to sail east to deal with those foul rebels?

I have yet to see a legitimate will for Carlos II. I asked the Spanish contingent at the peace conference to produce it and they did not. Some people have asserted a purported will well after his death without providing any evidence of the assertions. I am dubious of the self-serving nature of that assertion.

Politic in the forums if you wish, but No partition treaties were agreed by all parties, nor has any genuine will validated by the Spanish court been produced.

So yes, the situation is a muddled mess, but pretending it was all resolved before it got muddled is political posturing.

It started out a mess. The Spanish throne made it more of a mess by attempting to enthrone a questionable questionable birth, and Louis and Leopold haven't reached agreement on their competing claims ensuring the slowly unfolding train wreck continues. Spain hasn't been active in trying to solve the issue either.

Portugal has thrown their hat into the ring (historically they were bandied about as a compromise candidate, so this isn't as strange as some think). Spain and its nobles aren't getting much attention at the moment, but they do have a voice in this matter. Given that they've been given short shrift by many, I imagine they're feeling more than a bit prickly. Given how the two main claimants have spent a great deal of time telling them how much they don't want the throne of Spain, they may be inclined to tell both to now piss off and pick their own king and see what comes of that...

It will be interesting to see if the new Pope player can make headway, or if the rudderless drift of Spain will continue.

I will say that at least game 10's Spanish succession crisis seems like a real and proper crisis!

Just have my ruler oversee the dispute he has little overt skin in the game and would try to be fair.

I wonder however that it has taken a year since the "death" of Carlos for Philip to take the title" King". Surely he should have taken the title straight after the death, or maybe he wasn't 100% sure he had a claim. Afterall France offered The crown to Charles Hapsburg. Naples is a Papal Fiefdom & to become king there needs Papal agreement, In a similar way the Kaiser is Kaiser-elect, until he gets crowned by the Pope in Rome, although the last coronation was in the Middle Ages & the Elect bit isn't normal part of the day to day title in usage, The Kaiser has been elected by the College of Electors. So the Title King of Naples can be claimed but needs Papal comfirmation to give it any real worth.

To date it had seemed no one in The French or Austrian camps wanted to touch Spain at all, Colonies yes, Spain NO! Hence the idea of a Portugese solution, as up until that point that player was the only one interested, in grasping the poisoned chalice.

I guess we will all have to wait a couple more turns( Christmas time? ) until Papal solution is made public. Then the Papal fiefdoms, Imperial Fiefdoms & all the other bits & bobs will get sorted out. Don't forget - NPC Agema backed- Nobles in Spain may also want to have a say in what is going on. As all concerned have at some point in the last two game years asked the Pope to sort it all out I suppose they will all agree with what he has to say, afterall they are all Good Catholics who wouldn't dare think of turning a deaf ear to the Papacy..........

Spain is a right mess will remain a muddled mess & continue a tangled mess, because so many people are messing about in the mess, it can only get messier( is that spelt right?)

I can maybe understand France wanting to annex Tuscany afterall the Tuscan Sailing boat club has withstood the might of the French navy for a while now, obviously the Duchy is prized for its sailors.

So I guess we just wait & see what kind of solution is fortcoming, no poin tin debating maybes or what ifs best to wait until something written tips up.

I plan to be the writer and persuader sort with small books.

Abyssinia will also be working on a the green ore I did research it could be copper, green phosphate (I hope if its not copper this would seriously beef up crop yields in my country), green opal and a few other things so I am waiting for the Portuguese expert the ambassador is going to told to hire to analyze it a skilled metallurgist.

On the whole Spanish issue the Emperor will eat the popcorn and watch the show.

In G10, its not the results, but the plays that keep me entertained.

I can imagine the players sat round a high stakes table, playing hand after hand late into the night. Some big stakes, with some magnificent bluff, double bluff and other shenanigans.

Spain & the Empire on the table. Who goes all in? Who calls? Who folds? Who goes home in a taxi paid for by the winner? Who hits the club after & pops champagne all night in the VIP lounge?

It is going to be an interesting few months finding out...

Jason wrote:Maybe we could just say Milan is now a kingdom, I mean if one Indian city can suddenly be a Grand Duchy then a long-established Duchy should be able to able to become a kingdom?

Which reminds me Stuart, I assume your privateer fleet is preparing to sail east to deal with those foul rebels?  

I assumed it was all a matter for the French Minister of Justice and nothing to do with the Privateering Branch.

But I guess I could always look into setting course for Cape Town and joining the Red Sea round if peace and boredom breaks out in European Waters.

If you can't manufacture an incident to give you cause for mayhem, you really should just give up Glory, Stuart

Deacon wrote:If you can't manufacture an incident to give you cause for mayhem, you really should just give up Glory, Stuart

Might be a case of too many options

Abyssinia should offer to divide things up it has less skin in the outcomes.